Skilly McRailnob Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 "There was a Tim Lincecum-to-the-Reds rumor. But the Giants apparently want Jay Bruce in return. Reds GM Wayne Krivsky says the Reds have no untouchables, but Bruce is not going anywhere." [url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071204/SPT04/712040344/1078/COL02"]http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0344/1078/COL02[/url] Not sure if this was a 1 for 1 deal, but would you guys do this? Lincecum has the potential to be an absolute stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Skilly McRailnob' post='604382' date='Dec 4 2007, 07:25 AM']"There was a Tim Lincecum-to-the-Reds rumor. But the Giants apparently want Jay Bruce in return. Reds GM Wayne Krivsky says the Reds have no untouchables, but Bruce is not going anywhere." [url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071204/SPT04/712040344/1078/COL02"]http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0344/1078/COL02[/url] Not sure if this was a 1 for 1 deal, but would you guys do this? Lincecum has the potential to be an absolute stud.[/quote] The problem with Lincecum is when runners do reach base. This caused by his mechanics which are very good when the bases are empty; he's small but his stride is approx 130% relativity to his height. I was actually working with my son and another boy this summer teaching them mechanics based off of Lincecum. Lincecum uses his long stride then his arm comes around like a whip. There is a video out there showing this; I'll try and find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Here it is: [url="http://www.pitching.com/"]Tim Lincecum[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Theres a lot of rumors out there right now involving the Reds trying to acquire pitching (which I love) A few I've heard the reds are after: - D-Train Willis (Marlins asking for a top prospect of either Bailey, Bruce, Cueto or Votto) so I hope we don't go for that - Rich Hill (Hamilton and someone for Rich Hill) .... I'd do this in a heartbeat - Lincecum (Giants are asking a ton for him) And then a few teams are interested in Edwin like the Giants, Phillies, and another team I'm forgetting. If we could move Hamilton and say a young prospect to the Cubs for Hill, and then even turn Edwin into a starting pitcher we'd be looking mighty fine to win the Central. Also, rumor is that the reds are in talks with Brett Tomko to return to the nati. Regardless, say we move Hamilton for Hill.... We'd have an outfield of Dunn (who'd we have to sign long term), Bruce, Griffey and then Hopper off the bench rotation of Harang - Hill - Arroyo - 4 - Belisle ... So we'd still be missing one pitcher unless Bailey or Cueto are ready, but we could move Edwin to fill that void as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I wouldnt trade hamilton for rich hill any day...just me though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='604521' date='Dec 4 2007, 01:11 PM']I wouldnt trade hamilton for rich hill any day...just me though[/quote] neither would i. that would be garbage. lincecum could come here ANY DAY tho. id give bruce or hamilton to get lincecum. i wouldnt touch dtrain. he will cost too much and his arm is going to have troubles in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 yeah rich hill blows, 11-8 with a 3.92 era is nothing to get rid of a potential yearly all star for. Ok maybe not blows, but average is a better word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 If they want Lincecum then they should have drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='CTA513' post='604535' date='Dec 4 2007, 01:45 PM']If they wanted Lincecum then they should have drafted him.[/quote] But then we wouldn't have Stubbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='CTA513' post='604535' date='Dec 4 2007, 01:45 PM']If they want Lincecum then they should have drafted him.[/quote] cant argue that. was that a krivsky draft? i think it was his first one if im not mistaken. i would offer them Hamilton and something for Lincecum. I cant believe they would actually consider trading Lincecum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='604416' date='Dec 4 2007, 09:29 AM']Theres a lot of rumors out there right now involving the Reds trying to acquire pitching (which I love) A few I've heard the reds are after: - D-Train Willis (Marlins asking for a top prospect of either Bailey, Bruce, Cueto or Votto) so I hope we don't go for that - Rich Hill (Hamilton and someone for Rich Hill) .... I'd do this in a heartbeat - Lincecum (Giants are asking a ton for him) And then a few teams are interested in Edwin like the Giants, Phillies, and another team I'm forgetting. If we could move Hamilton and say a young prospect to the Cubs for Hill, and then even turn Edwin into a starting pitcher we'd be looking mighty fine to win the Central. Also, rumor is that the reds are in talks with Brett Tomko to return to the nati. Regardless, say we move Hamilton for Hill.... We'd have an outfield of Dunn (who'd we have to sign long term), Bruce, Griffey and then Hopper off the bench rotation of Harang - Hill - Arroyo - 4 - Belisle ... So we'd still be missing one pitcher unless Bailey or Cueto are ready, but we could move Edwin to fill that void as well.[/quote] bailey is ready. imo cueto will be ready by midseason but could come up now and outdo what we have on the backside. belisle is garbage, i hope we get some SPs because seeing him pitch is a joke. Josh Hamilton is worth more than Rich Hill. They better be adding to Hill. Trading Edwin is dumb. He turned it around last year and was our best player post allstar break. He is actually very clutch in key situations. It seems like every time he comes up to the plate in a big situation he comes through. He also was one of our best defensive players post allstar break as well. He put in the effort on his defense and there is no way we should move him. We wont get equal value for him. i wouldnt mind signing tomko. i think he'd be a solid pitcher for us. i have no interest in trading for dtrain and im a BIG fan of his. i skipped school in 06 to go to the reds/marlins day game just because dtrain was pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Mental Note... Thurman thinks the following player is garbage: 195 IP 183 Ks 3.92 ERA 63 walks 1.19 WHIP 6'5" 220 pound 27 year old curveball throwing lefty isn't a FA until 2013 makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='604609' date='Dec 4 2007, 05:01 PM']Mental Note... Thurman thinks the following player is garbage: 195 IP 183 Ks 3.92 ERA 63 walks 1.19 WHIP 6'5" 220 pound 27 year old curveball throwing lefty isn't a FA until 2013 makes sense[/quote] I don't defend Thurman much and have no opinion on this matter, but that's not what he said, and you know it. His point is that he doesn't feel Hill for Hamilton straight up is a good deal for the Reds. He feels they can get more for Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Yeah he never said that hill was garbage, he said the trade would be garbage. Hill is an average pitcher though. Be a solid 3 here not worth giving up a potential perennial all star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm mistaken as you guys pointed out... he said the trade would be garbage... fair enough... Someone please explain to me then how it would be a "garbage" trade to trade for a guy with those numbers (and I already know you guys are all going to over value Hamilton but please go for it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='604616' date='Dec 4 2007, 05:27 PM']I'm mistaken as you guys pointed out... he said the trade would be garbage... fair enough... Someone please explain to me then how it would be a "garbage" trade to trade for a guy with those numbers (and I already know you guys are all going to over value Hamilton but please go for it...)[/quote] first off rich hill will be eligible for Free Agency in 2011 or 2012. It is 5/6 years after your first year of service. Josh Hamilton will be free agent eligible in 2013. Rich Hill gives up a lot of homeruns and throws too many flyballs. He gave up 27 HRs last year that will be way more in Cincy. He has only pitched 1 year over 100 innings and only has 1.5 real years of experience. He is already 27 years old. If we are trading an OF who showed he still has all of his talent and is our BEST DISCIPLINED HITTER (you cannot argue this cuz he is by far) then you MUST get a SP better than that. [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='604609' date='Dec 4 2007, 05:01 PM'][b]Mental Note...[/b] [b]Thurman thinks the following player is garbage:[/b] 195 IP 183 Ks 3.92 ERA 63 walks 1.19 WHIP 6'5" 220 pound 27 year old curveball throwing lefty isn't a FA until 2013 makes sense[/quote] wrong and you noticed, but still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='604620' date='Dec 4 2007, 05:49 PM']first off rich hill will be eligible for Free Agency in 2011 or 2012. It is 5/6 years after your first year of service. Josh Hamilton will be free agent eligible in 2013. Rich Hill gives up a lot of homeruns and throws too many flyballs. He gave up 27 HRs last year that will be way more in Cincy. He has only pitched 1 year over 100 innings and only has 1.5 real years of experience. He is already 27 years old. If we are trading an OF who showed he still has all of his talent and is our BEST DISCIPLINED HITTER (you cannot argue this cuz he is by far) then you MUST get a SP better than that. wrong and you noticed, but still [/quote] Rich Hill and Josh Hamilton will both be arbitration eligible in 2010 - 2012 and will be FAs in 2013, and are both similar ages (26 / 27). You keep blowing Hamiltons talent which is understandable, but then you turn right around and blast Hill for only pitching 100 innings and only has 1.5 real years of experience... Hamilton played in 90 games EVER in the MLB, and he has a known drug addiction that he can fall back onto at any given moment, and due to his drug riddled past, is injury prone. You cant say Hill is inexperienced, and then act like Hamilton isn't. Keeping Josh Hamilton over taking on a top of the rotation pitcher like Hill would be a huge mistake... in fact, I doubt Hamilton for HIll straight up wouldn't even fly for the cubs. EDIT: Per Rotoworld: The Reds are listening to offers for Josh Hamilton and Edwin Encarnacion. ESPN's Jerry Crasnick thinks the Cubs will make a play for Hamilton, but that Sean Marshall won't be enough to get a deal done. [b]Rich Hill would, but the Cubs shouldn't part with him for less than a sure thing.[/b] Encarnacion would make sense for the Giants, Twins and Phillies, among others. Source: ESPN.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I am one that is reluctant to move Hamilton. I am probable bias due to a little more insight to his background. Maybe the Reds are dangling him in a bait-and-switch tactic; just to get conversations going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='604627' date='Dec 4 2007, 06:11 PM']I am one that is reluctant to move Hamilton. I am probable bias due to a little more insight to his background. Maybe the Reds are dangling him in a bait-and-switch tactic; just to get conversations going [/quote] or they realize to get a young cheap top of the rotation pitcher, guys like Stubbs, and Freel won't get it done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 if this is the Rich HIll I'm thinking of, why on earth would the cubs trade him to a division rival in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='604633' date='Dec 4 2007, 06:24 PM']if this is the Rich HIll I'm thinking of, why on earth would the cubs trade him to a division rival in the first place?[/quote] they need left handed outfield bats drastically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 The reds need to stop offering Hamilton. They just had an update on 700wlw! Reds are in talks With baltimore. Trading Bruce. and H.baily for Erik Bedard! I like that bet. I would move bruce before i moved hamilton. Bruce hasnt even taken a pitch in MLB. The reds have announced Bruce is not moving however. E.Bedard as a red would be great! 13-5 last season with 3.1 ERA. 220+strikeouts in 180 IP. Thats averaging over a strikeout per inning. He only gave up 19 hrs as well. thats a better avg than Harang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='bgwilly31' post='604638' date='Dec 4 2007, 06:38 PM']The reds need to stop offering Hamilton. They just had an update on 700wlw! Reds are in talks With baltimore. Trading Bruce. and H.baily for Erik Bedard! I like that bet. I would move bruce before i moved hamilton. Bruce hasnt even taken a pitch in MLB. The reds have announced Bruce is not moving however. E.Bedard as a red would be great! 13-5 last season with 3.1 ERA. 220+strikeouts in 180 IP. Thats averaging over a strikeout per inning. He only gave up 19 hrs as well. thats a better avg than Harang.[/quote] Why again would you move Bruce before Hamilton? If we could deal Hamilton and Bailey for Bedard, I'll be doing back flips in the streets of Lexington.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='bgwilly31' post='604638' date='Dec 4 2007, 06:38 PM']The reds need to stop offering Hamilton. They just had an update on 700wlw! Reds are in talks With baltimore. Trading Bruce. and H.baily for Erik Bedard! I like that bet. I would move bruce before i moved hamilton. Bruce hasnt even taken a pitch in MLB. The reds have announced Bruce is not moving however. E.Bedard as a red would be great! 13-5 last season with 3.1 ERA. 220+strikeouts in 180 IP. Thats averaging over a strikeout per inning. He only gave up 19 hrs as well. thats a better avg than Harang.[/quote] Registered a 1.08 WHIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='604642' date='Dec 4 2007, 06:49 PM']Why again would you move Bruce before Hamilton? If we could deal Hamilton and Bailey for Bedard, I'll be doing back flips in the streets of Lexington....[/quote] Hamilton has at least taken MLB pitches and somewhat proven. And if he stayed healthy for the year last year he would have been a ROOKIE of the year Nominee. Show me a team that trades a ROOKIE of the year nominee the very next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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