Hot Stove

[Lawman]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='605007' date='Dec 5 2007, 04:39 PM']Lawman, word is they possibly released Cantu so they can work out a contract with him directly rather than having to let the arbitrator decide what he's worth.[/quote]

A logical answer; thanks.

[Lawman]

[quote][b]Santana/Reyes/Haren [/b]Blockbuster Quashed
UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 5:45pm: Billy Beane, who rarely comments on trade rumors, actually went out of his way to call mine below a "total fabrication." I guess I should be proud, right? It sounds like I was the victim of an elaborate hoax/impersonated sportswriter. If so I apologize - not sure why someone would go to such lengths, but lesson learned.[/quote]

I wanted to comment on the beravity of rumors; I think there is some interesting entertainment value to them even when they sound so absurd.

[ThurmanMunster]

if the dodgers were offering a duo equal to Bruce and Bailey then the Orioles are ran by MORONS for not accepting that.

[Palmer4HOF]

Check this out...

per mlbtraderumors:

Elliott also said the Reds are interested in Alex Rios. If the Giants are pondering sending Tim Lincecum to the Jays for him, I imagine the Reds would have to counter with Homer Bailey. Bailey, however, is less proven than Lincecum.

Let's say we trade Bailey for Alex Rios.

Then we would have to trade either DUnn, Griff, Bruce or Hamilton... we would however have all offseason to do it. Let's say the team then flips Bruce for say Haren, or Bedard or Santana or Kazmir...

We'd have a future outfield of Dunn (if we can resign him) - Rios - Hamilton

rotation of Harang - ACE from Bruce deal - Arroyo - Belisle - Cueto or FA

i could def. live with that

EDIT: On second thought, Rios and Bedard are both up for arbitration and are goign to be very expensive... might be better to take the less expensive unknowns into the season and see what happens

[bengalrick]

if we he have to trade an outfielder, and it turns out to be bruce over griffey or dunn, then this management is freakin' dumb as hell... griffey is old as hell and dunn will be almost unsignable next year.. and if we do pick up his contract, he gets a no trade clause...

dunn needs to be traded if the above scenario goes down... its as simple as that...

[Lawman]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='605277' date='Dec 6 2007, 01:06 PM']if we he have to trade an outfielder, and it turns out to be bruce over griffey or dunn, then this management is freakin' dumb as hell... griffey is old as hell and dunn will be almost unsignable next year.. and if we do pick up his contract, he gets a no trade clause...

[b]dunn[/b] needs to be traded if the above scenario goes down... its as simple as that...[/quote]

Then you may like this one bloggers post BR:

[quote]I could see the Reds trying to acquire Rios because in a few years they could have OF of Hamilton, Bruce, Rios all of whom would still be fairly cheap and free up cash to go out and get a SP. Now getting Rios this year with out making another move would be tough because there is no place to play him. Maybe there could be a three team trade that looks like this

Jays get
Lincecum/cain
Hennesy

Giants get
Dunn ( if they can work out extension)
Bailey

Reds get
Rios
Listch

Jays get the pitching the looking for, Giants get a big bat, and a SP prospect back, reds get young cheaper rising star OF and a SP. Just throwing it out there, and im not a fan of any of the three teams.[/quote]

[bgwilly31]

quick question guys.

I used to be able to look up players salaries on MLB.com.

Now it seems they took it down.


Any of you guys know how to look it up?

[Lawman]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='605294' date='Dec 6 2007, 01:52 PM']quick question guys.

I used to be able to look up players salaries on MLB.com.

Now it seems they took it down.


Any of you guys know how to look it up?[/quote]

You can go to espn; select mlb; your team and then the roster and look up your player.

Not all the salaries will be there, but most will.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Lawman' post='605307' date='Dec 6 2007, 02:24 PM']You can go to espn; select mlb; your team and then the roster and look up your player.

Not all the salaries will be there, but most will.[/quote]

I just looked up David Wright on the Mets; $1.25mil for 07'

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='Lawman' post='605285' date='Dec 6 2007, 01:31 PM']Then you may like this one bloggers post BR:[/quote]
that trade is horrid for us. although i orgasm at the thought of Bruce-Rios-Hamilton with Edwin, Phillips, Votto in the infield. personally i think we need to work on Lincecum. IMO he is the best SP available on the trade market based on the talent required to get him.

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='605275' date='Dec 6 2007, 12:59 PM']Check this out...

per mlbtraderumors:

Elliott also said the Reds are interested in Alex Rios. If the Giants are pondering sending Tim Lincecum to the Jays for him, I imagine the Reds would have to counter with Homer Bailey. Bailey, however, is less proven than Lincecum.

Let's say we trade Bailey for Alex Rios.

Then we would have to trade either DUnn, Griff, Bruce or Hamilton... we would however have all offseason to do it. Let's say the team then flips Bruce for say Haren, or Bedard or Santana or Kazmir...

We'd have a future outfield of Dunn (if we can resign him) - Rios - Hamilton

rotation of Harang - ACE from Bruce deal - Arroyo - Belisle - Cueto or FA

i could def. live with that

EDIT: On second thought, Rios and Bedard are both up for arbitration and are goign to be very expensive... might be better to take the less expensive unknowns into the season and see what happens[/quote]

im sorry, but there is no point in doing any of this shit if we are stuck with belisle in the rotation. he is garbage and seems to get hurt 24/7.

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='605318' date='Dec 6 2007, 03:06 PM']im sorry, but there is no point in doing any of this shit if we are stuck with belisle in the rotation. he is garbage and seems to get hurt 24/7.[/quote]

you realize belisle will be in our rotation no matter what this upcoming year unless we deal him right?

He will be there over Bailey and Cueto

[Lawman]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='605317' date='Dec 6 2007, 03:05 PM']that trade is horrid for us. although i orgasm at the thought of Bruce-Rios-Hamilton with Edwin, Phillips, Votto in the infield. personally i think we need to work on Lincecum. IMO he is the best SP available on the trade market based on the talent required to get him.[/quote]

I commented to a co-worker yesterday on a Lincecum for Dunn.

My logic is that the Giants get a left-handed hitting power hitter that should draw some fans with the absence of Bonds; with the Reds getting a much needed Starting-Pitcher while opening room for Jay Bruce. Plus the absence of Dunn's salary may allows us to go after someone like Carlos Silva.

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='605330' date='Dec 6 2007, 03:20 PM']you realize belisle will be in our rotation no matter what this upcoming year unless we deal him right?

He will be there over Bailey and Cueto[/quote]
dont think so. if we do bring in tomko and rusch likes it sounds then they will be here instead. plus management will put pressure on dusty to use homer. bailey injured last year > belisle healthy last year. id rather bring steve parris out of retirement then have belisle pitch in our rotation.

[Palmer4HOF]

I'm starting to believe Wayne might be on to something...

Say you're able to flip Bailey for Rios... Rios gives you the RH bat, and way above average fielding.

Then you flip Dunn for a young starting pitcher ... Dunn would have to approve.


This will never happen, but I'd love it.

[Lawman]

Tid bits...

[quote]Dontrelle For Josh Hamilton Was Discussed
UPDATE, 12-8-07 at 2:47am: More excitement...throw Abraham Nunez into the mix of Marlins third base targets. This team is going places.

FROM 12-7-07 at 11:27am:

MLB.com's Joe Frisaro posted a new column last night full of good Marlins hot stove chatter.

The most interesting note is that the Marlins talked to the Reds about swapping Dontrelle Willis for Josh Hamilton, prior to the blockbuster with Detroit.[/quote]


[quote]Reds In On Cameron?
According to Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune, Mike Cameron's agent tonight said he has a new suitor. Krasovic makes an educated guess that the Reds are that team. He cites Cameron's desire to play for Dusty Baker, the possible defensive improvement, and the availability of Josh Hamilton as factors. It would be odd for the Reds to spend their remaining money on a position player though.

Cameron enjoyed his time in Cincinnati in 1999, hitting .256/.357/.469 as a 26 year-old before being included in the Griffey trade. Wouldn't it be interesting if the Reds brought back Cameron and Brett Tomko? And Antonio Perez is probably kicking around somewhere too.[/quote]

[quote]Rangers Like Patterson, Ethier, [b]Hamilton[/b], Fukudome
According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers are targeting various young outfielders.

Josh Hamilton, 27 in May, could be moved by the Reds for a starting pitcher. Hamilton was incredible in 300 ABs for the Reds this year in his MLB debut, despite several years off and only 89 ABs above A ball. That's #1 pick talent. He dealt with wrist, hamstring, and stomach problems this year however. Sullivan says the Reds would want Edinson Volquez for him; there was talk of sending him to Florida for Dontrelle Willis previously[/quote]

[quote]David Wells, Jon Lieber, and Brett Tomko are the types of names the Reds are considering. Tomko came up a Red but went to Seattle in the Griffey deal. Boomer is also a former Red.[/quote]

[Bengals1181]

I don't think Hamilton is worth Cameron alone.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='605821' date='Dec 8 2007, 09:29 AM']I don't think Hamilton is worth Cameron alone.[/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we would not have to trade anything for Cameron...he is a free agent.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='605823' date='Dec 8 2007, 09:35 AM']Correct me if I am wrong, but we would not have to trade anything for Cameron...he is a free agent.[/quote]


hmm I just glanced at this and guess I thought "trade"

[quote]He cites Cameron's desire to play for Dusty Baker, the possible defensive improvement, and the availability of Josh Hamilton as factors.[/quote]


I can't be held responsible for things I post right after I wake up.

[Palmer4HOF]

I'm still up in the air on the Krivdawg right now with his strategy this offseason but it seems to me, he is exploring ALL avenues possible to make this team better. It seems he wants a defensive upgrade in CF and he is willing to just go out and sign a guy and worry about dealing an OF later... this could potentially work or blow up in his face


It would make sense if we could find the OF first, and then deal the OF for a pitcher since we'd have an extra surplus of OFs, but at the same time, what if you can't deal the OF? I would imagine he's got a pretty good idea of what teams want for this young stud pitchers, so if he believes Hamilton can bring on back, it only makes sense to find Hammys replacement first, and then deal for the pitcher...

Kriv could end up looking like a genious if everything pans out this offseason

[BengalBacker]

[quote]Reds fall behind, but it's a long offseason

By Hal McCoy

Staff Writer

Sunday, December 09, 2007

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — The 3,000-room Opryland Hotel & Resort has its own area code and should have its own zip code. The hotel property is entirely under glass, but a homeless person could wander its winding sidewalks for months without being discovered and evicted.

A writer covering this year's baseball winter meetings bought a pedometer and in one day walked 151/2 miles without leaving the hotel, more than 27,000 steps.

Is it any wonder not many trades were consummated? Some team executives seldom saw other teams' executives for most of the four days.

Cincinnati Reds General Manager Wayne Krivsky came to Music City singing songs about acquiring a starting pitcher, maybe two if the stars were aligned.

Instead, by Day 3, Suite G6092, occupied by Krivsky and populated by his staff, was strewn with other teams' rosters, statistical books, scouting reports and potato chip rosters.

Krivsky didn't crack a smile during a 30-minute media briefing, almost as if somebody swallowed his cleanup hitter.

So what did the Reds do?

They cut usable first baseman Jorge Cantu so they could participate in the Rule 5 draft and pick a 23-year-old guy who hasn't pitched above Class A and was 1-3 with a 7.12 ERA at Rome — that's Georgia, not the Colosseum.

They traded outfielder Buck Coats to Toronto for minor-league right-handed pitcher Justin James.

Fortunately, Linda Krivsky was able to purchase some nifty antiques.

So the Reds pretty much left with less than when they arrived, still possessing only two quality starting pitchers — Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo.

Although discouraged, Krivsky is not beaten.

"You aren't going to do something just to say you did something at the meetings," Krivsky said. "It's a process, and it's a long winter and there will be opportunities to do some things. I'm confident about that. We've had a lot of discussions, and we'll see what happens from here."

Even though Krivsky wanted to do something, he wasn't about to put the pressure on himself to hit a home run.

"When you come in thinking you have to do something, that isn't the right approach," he said. "I would have liked to have done something if it improved the ballclub, but I feel good about our team right now.

"We've added (closer) Francisco Cordero, a major piece to the team," he said. "And we still want to solidify the starting rotation."

Making his pitch

Krivsky agrees that Harang and Arroyo are the two anchors, but adds Matt Belisle into the mix.

"You have to include Belisle based on what he did at the end of last season and a guy like Homer Bailey is in a good position," Krivsky added. "Until you have a full year in the major leagues you can't feel locked in (Bailey), you have to feel you're still competing.

"I don't want to be in a position where we're just handing out jobs," he said. "I want players to earn jobs."

Belisle was 8-9 with a 5.32 ERA in 30 starts. After a stint at Class AAA Louisville, Belisle went 2-1 with a 5.06 ERA in his last seven starts and suffered one blown save.

Bailey, arriving from Louisville in midseason with the pomp and circumstance of royalty, struggled in his first few games and was dispatched back to the minors.

The 21-year-old right-hander came back in September and did better, finishing 4-2 with a 5.76 ERA in nine starts.

Some scouts, though, believe Bailey still has a long road to travel toward stardom.

So, it's back to Cincinnati, where Krivsky can work the phones and not worry about being lost forever 'neath the streets of Nashville.[/quote]

[url="http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2007/12/08/ddn120907mccoy.html"]http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/o...20907mccoy.html[/url]

[Lawman]

[quote]Surprise Players For Haren
During the Winter Meetings, there wasn't much talk of the Indians or [b]Reds[/b] pursuing Oakland starter Dan Haren. However, there's buzz that both Ohio teams have interest.

The Tribe definitely inquired on Haren. See Susan Slusser's article today, where she notes that Asdrubal Cabrera was "believed to be an A's target." The Indians don't want to part with the young infielder, a player they stole from the Mariners in June of 2006 for Eduardo Perez. Paul Hoynes further solidifies it, saying Mark Shapiro has spoken to Billy Beane about Haren.

[b]Slusser believes the Reds "might turn their focus toward Haren with an offer that could include starter Homer Bailey" if they can't get Erik Bedard. Slusser's report is unclear whether Wayne Krivsky has had conversations with Billy Beane about Haren. Ken Rosenthal says the Reds are "pushing for Haren," which does indicate talks[/b].[/quote]