Josh Hamilton Trade Discussion for those who follow closely

[ThurmanMunster]

That other thread has been ruined with a bunch of bullshit.



Fantastic trade. Im the biggest Hamilton fan on this board, but this trade really is good. Volquez proved last year he is ready to destroy at the major leagues. Volquez, Bailey, Cueto is a ridiculously talented and young trio of SPs. We freed up a spot for Bruce and traded a 26 year old OF for a 24 year old MLB SP and 23 year old MR prospect. I will take that.

[Nati Ice]

at dont think it was as spectacular as your making it out to be, but it was a pretty solid deal. heres to hoping we can package a deal for bedard with belisle, homer, cueto, volquez, or this other prospect, and freel, etc.

[Bengals1181]

been watching some clips of him. HIs changeup is even nastier than Arroyo's (when he's on)


[url="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=450172"]http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.j...layer_id=450172[/url]


videos to the right.

[BengalRep85-9]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='612410' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:29 PM']been watching some clips of him. HIs changeup is even nastier than Arroyo's (when he's on)


[url="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=450172"]http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.j...layer_id=450172[/url]


videos to the right.[/quote]
Arroyo doesnt really throw a change you're probably thinking of his curveball??
Droppin from 94 heat to 84 with that change just looks devastating

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BengalRep85-9' post='612415' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:44 PM']Arroyo doesnt really throw a change you're probably thinking of his curveball??
Droppin from 94 heat to 84 with that change just looks devastating[/quote]


Arroyo does throw a changeup. It kind of looks like a curve though, but I've always heard it referred to as a changeup as he drops it in at 70mph most times.

[USN Bengal]

Having promising young pitching is ALWAYS better than having promising young position players.

Best of luck to you Josh Hamilton, but for the Reds, this is about building a winning team the right way... pitching.
I'd still love to see a veteran SP... Lieber/Colon/Benson get brought in... but I like what Krivsky's been doing.

Other Reds boards I frequent think that it also could be possible that Krivsky could try to package the new guys for Bedard, along with others. I don't think so though... but we shall see.

[JBandJoeyV]

Ill always root for josh hamilton and hope he turns out to be the stud I think he will be...

But at the same time if this volquez guy is as good as he sounds the deal should work out well for us.

To me it sounds like we got the ranger's homer bailey? Is that a fair assesment to those that know more than me?

[|BengalsFREAK|]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='612421' date='Dec 21 2007, 10:28 PM']Having promising young pitching is ALWAYS better than having promising young position players.

Best of luck to you Josh Hamilton, but for the Reds, this is about building a winning team the right way... pitching.
I'd still love to see a veteran SP... Lieber/Colon/Benson get brought in... but I like what Krivsky's been doing.[/quote]


I could not possibly agree with you anymore! Well said!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='612490' date='Dec 22 2007, 04:31 AM']Ill always root for josh hamilton and hope he turns out to be the stud I think he will be...

But at the same time if this volquez guy is as good as he sounds the deal should work out well for us.

[b]To me it sounds like we got the ranger's homer bailey? Is that a fair assesment to those that know more than me?[/b][/quote]


that's the impression I got too. We got the Rangers' best pitching prospect who is major league ready, along with a potential bullpen guy.

[bgwilly31]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='612490' date='Dec 22 2007, 04:31 AM']Ill always root for josh hamilton and hope he turns out to be the stud I think he will be...

But at the same time if this volquez guy is as good as he sounds the deal should work out well for us.

[i]To me it sounds like we got the ranger's homer bailey? Is that a fair assesment to those that know more than me?[/i][/quote]


yeah maybe. Listen to what the commenatry says at the very beginning of this video.

Videos to the right.
click the one that says ::Volquez strikes out six
[url="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=450172"]videos[/url]


Sounds like the third best prospect to me. Oh and btw check out the score to that game.

This deal sounds a lot like one guys description on this board of HAMILTON. HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD.

I think the Josh haters need to also realize hamilton has also ONLY played ONE season. It was his first attempt at a 162 game schedule. He was rusty trying to get back into BASEBALL shape. And he still performed the way he did. These guys seem to think Hamilton has a HIGH chance of getting worse. The guy is 26 yrs old in his PRIME. IMO your wrong.

This trade is garbage and is typical REDS fashion. Trading away allstars for prospects. They do it time and time again.


Let us just sit here and ask ourselves a question.

Who here thinks will have a better chance of becoming a MULTI YEAR allstar over the course of their career, HAMILTON, Or Volquez???

I think the majority of us would choose hamilton hands down.


My opinion of volquez after watching some videos and reading some stats He's a PROSPECT! Thats it. And it looks to me he's only a prospect of being avg.


Im a reds fan until i die. So i hope im wrong and volquez magically turns into some super Stud. But i dont see it happening. He might be an improvement for our SP rotation. But come on guys How hard is that to accomplish.

The reds are the only team i know that would trade away a Rookie of the year nominee. And to boot trade him away for fucking prospects.

Its a bad day to be a reds fan.

[Bengals1181]

wait, you seriously watched those videos of Volquez and thought he looked average? His stuff looks nasty.

[ThurmanMunster]

this trade is very good for us.

[bgwilly31]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='612568' date='Dec 22 2007, 01:29 PM']wait, you seriously watched those videos of Volquez and thought he looked average? His stuff looks nasty.[/quote]


well u also have to understand those were just highlights of his best games.

If your asking me if i think he's going to be BIG for us. I'm saying no.

I hope im wrong. I see him being rather avg for us in 08 IF he gets a spot in the rotation.

[bgwilly31]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='612568' date='Dec 22 2007, 01:29 PM']wait, you seriously watched those videos of Volquez and thought he looked average? His stuff looks nasty.[/quote]


Also did you see the score in that detroit game. 5th inning already 5-1. Pretty nasty stuff

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='612593' date='Dec 22 2007, 03:05 PM']Also did you see the score in that detroit game. 5th inning already 5-1. Pretty nasty stuff [/quote]


OMGL!!UJO!! Ya got me. Clearly he's average. Go look up the first season stats of guys named Maddux, Schilling and Glavine.

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='612567' date='Dec 22 2007, 01:20 PM']yeah maybe. Listen to what the commenatry says at the very beginning of this video.

Videos to the right.
click the one that says ::Volquez strikes out six
[url="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=450172"]videos[/url]


Sounds like the third best prospect to me. Oh and btw check out the score to that game.

This deal sounds a lot like one guys description on this board of HAMILTON. HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD.

I think the Josh haters need to also realize hamilton has also ONLY played ONE season. It was his first attempt at a 162 game schedule. He was rusty trying to get back into BASEBALL shape. And he still performed the way he did. These guys seem to think Hamilton has a HIGH chance of getting worse. The guy is 26 yrs old in his PRIME. IMO your wrong.

This trade is garbage and is typical REDS fashion. Trading away allstars for prospects. They do it time and time again.


Let us just sit here and ask ourselves a question.

Who here thinks will have a better chance of becoming a MULTI YEAR allstar over the course of their career, HAMILTON, Or Volquez???

I think the majority of us would choose hamilton hands down.


My opinion of volquez after watching some videos and reading some stats He's a PROSPECT! Thats it. And it looks to me he's only a prospect of being avg.


Im a reds fan until i die. So i hope im wrong and volquez magically turns into some super Stud. But i dont see it happening. He might be an improvement for our SP rotation. But come on guys How hard is that to accomplish.

The reds are the only team i know that would trade away a Rookie of the year nominee. And to boot trade him away for fucking prospects.

Its a bad day to be a reds fan. [/quote]


Pitching wins championships, we don't have near enough pitching to even make the playoffs. Hamilton was a rookie of the year nominee... so what?

Tell me what these following names have in common;

Kazuhiro Sasaki Seattle
Ben Grieve Oakland
Bob Hamelin Kansas City
Tim Salmon California
Pat Listach Milwaukee
Alvin Davis Seattle
Ron Kittle Chicago
Todd Hollandsworth Los Angeles
Eric Karros Los Angeles
Jerome Walton Chicago Cubs

They were ALL rookies of the year in the NL or AL since 1989 and didn't do a damn thing the rest of their career.

All he is right now is a position player that showed promise, and Volquez ia a pitcher that shows promise. Hamilton is NOT an allstar yet, and he may NEVER be. It's all conjecture at this point, and for YOU to ne hating on Volquez is asinine.

Hamilton ALSO needs a babysitter... and he stepped on some toes right after Jerry Narron got fired... he threw a little hissy fit reportedly saying "Thye better not touch Johnny". This was reported by Hal McCoy, who is NOT known for making things up.
A 26 year old rookie who is promising is NOT in a position to act like a diva. He was as good as gone this year after that little episode... it's just good that the Reds are not playing this business as a sentimental sob story... they are treating it like they should be, with good baseball sense.

With Bruce in the wings and a glut of other outfielders, we need pitching to reach the next level.

With no pitching and keeping Hamilton, we NEVER reach the next level... no matter if he was the reincarnation of Willie Mays.

I think the majority of us who know baseball would take the trade... hands down.

[akiliMVP]

So what's the rotation going to look like?

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Volquez
Belisle?

I'd be cool with that. Harang is a stud, and if Bailey and Volquez play to their potential this looks like a pretty damn good rotation.

[BengalRep85-9]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='612613' date='Dec 22 2007, 05:20 PM']So what's the rotation going to look like?

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Volquez
Belisle?

I'd be cool with that. Harang is a stud, and if Bailey and Volquez play to their potential this looks like a pretty damn good rotation.[/quote]
I think they're going to give cueto every opportunity to make the rotation in spring training... seems like people in the organization think he is a better prospect than bailey. One of the 3 either bailey, cueto, or volquez is gonna start in the minors and probably be brought up if someone struggles early.
Big Bob bumped up the payroll this year and IMO i dont think he will let this year start out like last year and be out of it by mid may... if somebody struggles we have somebody waiting to take your spot... I like it!

[BengalBacker]

Assuming Bruce is as good as we think he'll be, I think this trade is one of those risks you have to take.

Like everyone else, I was a big fan of Hamilton and I still hope he becomes a perennial all star. Everyone knows we need pitching though. I don't know anything about the guys we got other than what's been posted, but if Volquez earns a spot in the rotation, (even as a solid 4 or 5) and Bruce turns out to be good, we'll be a better team regardless of what Hamilton does. Especially if the other guy we got can help in the bullpen.

I'm actually getting really optimistic about our chances next year. First time in quite a while.

[bgwilly31]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='612610' date='Dec 22 2007, 04:56 PM']Pitching wins championships, we don't have near enough pitching to even make the playoffs. Hamilton was a rookie of the year nominee... so what?

Tell me what these following names have in common;

Kazuhiro Sasaki Seattle
Ben Grieve Oakland
Bob Hamelin Kansas City
Tim Salmon California
Pat Listach Milwaukee
Alvin Davis Seattle
Ron Kittle Chicago
Todd Hollandsworth Los Angeles
Eric Karros Los Angeles
Jerome Walton Chicago Cubs

They were ALL rookies of the year in the NL or AL since 1989 and didn't do a damn thing the rest of their career.

All he is right now is a position player that showed promise, and Volquez ia a pitcher that shows promise. Hamilton is NOT an allstar yet, and he may NEVER be. It's all conjecture at this point, and for YOU to ne hating on Volquez is asinine.

Hamilton ALSO needs a babysitter... and he stepped on some toes right after Jerry Narron got fired... he threw a little hissy fit reportedly saying "Thye better not touch Johnny". This was reported by Hal McCoy, who is NOT known for making things up.
A 26 year old rookie who is promising is NOT in a position to act like a diva. He was as good as gone this year after that little episode... it's just good that the Reds are not playing this business as a sentimental sob story... they are treating it like they should be, with good baseball sense.

With Bruce in the wings and a glut of other outfielders, we need pitching to reach the next level.

With no pitching and keeping Hamilton, we NEVER reach the next level... no matter if he was the reincarnation of Willie Mays.

I think the majority of us who know baseball would take the trade... hands down.[/quote]

Have you played baseball?

I played baseball my entire life.
Scholarship offers from louisville and purdue.

So i like to think i know baseball.

And to back up MY opinion.

ALLEN CUTLER is on 700wlw right now and is IRATE about this trade.

Every caller thats called in thus far has also been IRATE about this trade.

Hes made great points all supporting my opinions. Go take a listen.

--------------------------------

And why dont you wake up. I never once said this team doesnt need to do whatever they have to do to get pitching.

But you need to do it the right way.

Heres how it should have been done.

Trade DUNN and griffey. How much money does that free up? ??

Also how little were we paying hamilton.

HAMILTON was the steal of a century for a guy that will hit 35 hr a season.

And you trade him.

I dont agree with trading HAMILTON Period.

But trading him for a prospect is just retarded.

[JBandJoeyV]

If 2 of the 3 young guns (Cueto, Bailey, and Volquez) pitch well enough to help the team this year, I think we have a solid shot at winning the central.

What would be absolutely amazing would be if all three of them could start along with Harang and Arroyo and then we wouldnt have to pitch belisle.

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='612621' date='Dec 22 2007, 06:01 PM']Have you played baseball?

I played baseball my entire life.
Scholarship offers from louisville and purdue.

So i like to think i know baseball.

And to back up MY opinion.

ALLEN CUTLER is on 700wlw right now and is IRATE about this trade.

Every caller thats called in thus far has also been IRATE about this trade.

Hes made great points all supporting my opinions. Go take a listen.

--------------------------------

And why dont you wake up. I never once said this team doesnt need to do whatever they have to do to get pitching.

But you need to do it the right way.

Heres how it should have been done.

Trade DUNN and griffey. How much money does that free up? ??

Also how little were we paying hamilton.

HAMILTON was the steal of a century for a guy that will hit 35 hr a season.

And you trade him.

I dont agree with trading HAMILTON Period.

But trading him for a prospect is just retarded.[/quote]


First of all, Cutler's a retarded dickhead.

Secong of all, most of his callers are retarded dickheads.

Third, Hamilton MIGHT be a guy who regularly hits 35 homeruns a year ( I think he will). He might also go back to being a crackhead like he was for a long time. ( I don't think he will, but cocaine is a hell of a drug )

Fourth, Dunn has faults, but since you stated that a reason to keep Hamilton is possibly 35 HR's a year, you have to acknowledge that 35 would be a DOWN year for Dunn.

Fifth, good luck trading Griffey or Dunn without having to eat most of their salary, therefore offsetting the "steal of the century" for Hamilton's contract.

Sixth, emotionally I agree with you, but if Volquez is decent and Bruce is good, the trade will make us a better team. If not, then we got screwed but it can't be judged yet. Don't forget, at this time last year Hamilton was a bust, on the scrap heap.

[JBandJoeyV]

Ive been reading around, and does anyone think that theres a chance that this makes the bedard trade more of a possibility?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='612621' date='Dec 22 2007, 06:01 PM']ALLEN CUTLER is on 700wlw right now and is IRATE about this trade.

Every caller thats called in thus far has also been IRATE about this trade.[/quote]


you're using THAT to support your argument?


If clubs made decisions based on what the fans thought, every franchise in the world would suck.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='612610' date='Dec 22 2007, 04:56 PM']Pitching wins championships, we don't have near enough pitching to even make the playoffs. Hamilton was a rookie of the year nominee... so what?

Tell me what these following names have in common;

Kazuhiro Sasaki Seattle
Ben Grieve Oakland
Bob Hamelin Kansas City
Tim Salmon California
Pat Listach Milwaukee
Alvin Davis Seattle
Ron Kittle Chicago
Todd Hollandsworth Los Angeles
Eric Karros Los Angeles
Jerome Walton Chicago Cubs

They were ALL rookies of the year in the NL or AL since 1989 and didn't do a damn thing the rest of their career.

All he is right now is a position player that showed promise, and Volquez ia a pitcher that shows promise. Hamilton is NOT an allstar yet, and he may NEVER be. It's all conjecture at this point, and for YOU to ne hating on Volquez is asinine.

Hamilton ALSO needs a babysitter... and he stepped on some toes right after Jerry Narron got fired... he threw a little hissy fit reportedly saying "Thye better not touch Johnny". This was reported by Hal McCoy, who is NOT known for making things up.
A 26 year old rookie who is promising is NOT in a position to act like a diva. He was as good as gone this year after that little episode... it's just good that the Reds are not playing this business as a sentimental sob story... they are treating it like they should be, with good baseball sense.

With Bruce in the wings and a glut of other outfielders, we need pitching to reach the next level.

With no pitching and keeping Hamilton, we NEVER reach the next level... no matter if he was the reincarnation of Willie Mays.

I think the majority of us who know baseball would take the trade... hands down.[/quote]

You forgot Angel Berroa!

Though to be fair, you must admit Hamilton's situation of virtually zero preparation and physical training coming into this year makes him a much more likely candidate for improvement over his 1st year numbers than a typical rookie.