Speed

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='620344' date='Jan 8 2008, 02:00 PM']i think you confuse excuses with explanations.

nobody is making any excuses for the way osu played last night. what people tend to do is quantify the explanations and reasoning behind refuting popular assumptions that have little backing in the factual world in an attempt to reason with idiots who take comfort in knowing that osu has lost on the national stage twice in the past two years without realizing that year in and year out osu has a much better program than the average year of their sec competition.they have just quite simply failed to beat the winner of the sec merry go round in recent bowl games. so, of course all of the osu fans are upset we lost and of course all the sec fanboys are circle jerking over this moment but the facts of the matter are that osu laid an egg last year and were just flat out beaten this year. speed is not a factor and the sooner you and everyone else realizes this the quicker we can get down to the real reasons ohio state lost e.g., having an unreliable qb, steve rehring, penalties (earned and bullshitted), abandoning the run, wrs not getting separation and failing to complete their routes, miscommunication, poor defensive scheming, playing a team in a bowl game at home, and lastly, and surely not least, quality competition.

you have not done anything to dispel the real reasons behind osu's loss, and this thread notwithstanding, most assuredly fall into line with all of the other sec circle jerkers who think that the reason osu has lost 2 in a row was because of some random and delusional ideas of speed in spite of obvious facts to the contrary.[/quote]

Ok...........

And by the way, I'm an OSU fan and went to school there for a year. My best freinds graduated from there and during college I was in Columbus almost every weekend. Lived on Lane.........but yeah, I must be taking part in the SEC circle jerk.

[Nati Ice]

alright then uncle ruckus, take out the sec cirlce jerking and tell me im wrong.

more valid reasons for osu's loss have been provided than the lone, and categorically irrelevant, quip you are referencing from my post about the sec, and yet somehow you feel as if all of the osu supporters think that its acceptable to play poorly in the championship game since they werent expected to go that far in the first place and can make up excuses like a mother fucker. this is all in spite of the fact that there are people here who have criticized damn near every aspect of osu's game, congratulated lsu, and simply feel as if there are far better reasons for explaining the loss and why some, like myself, arnt terribly torn up about it given the situations surrounding the game, nor feel as if the sec is some bizarre form of far superior competition.

osu played poorly almost the entire game and in spite of that fact only lost part of one quarter of play and it ended up costing them the game.

what would you like us to say? "osu played badly damn near the entire game but still managed to keep it respectable with the far superior, speedy sec titans. who should have been able to play usc, since, you know, they only lost twice with a weaker schedule?"

just what is it that you are complaining about? the osu fans not coming out and saying that lsu is a far greater team or that the sec is a far greater conference?

[steggyD]

No teams play any games too far past Thanksgiving, minus the bowl games. So any of these cold weather arguments are bullshit.

[Khatmandude]

Yeah, I didn't read your post but LSU was clearly the better team who executed a better gameplan.

As Oldschooler said, that Robiskie drop was huge and the blocked field goal afterwards changed the momentum of the game so much that OSU was never really able to recover. I think the roughing call on the punter was as big of a play because it deflated OSU.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='620367' date='Jan 8 2008, 11:41 AM']alright then uncle ruckus, take out the sec cirlce jerking and tell me im wrong.

more valid reasons for osu's loss have been provided than the lone, and categorically irrelevant, quip you are referencing from my post about the sec, and yet somehow you feel as if all of the osu supporters think that its acceptable to play poorly in the championship game since they werent expected to go that far in the first place and can make up excuses like a mother fucker. this is all in spite of the fact that there are people here who have criticized damn near every aspect of osu's game, congratulated lsu, and simply feel as if there are far better reasons for explaining the loss and why some, like myself, arnt terribly torn up about it given the situations surrounding the game, nor feel as if the sec is some bizarre form of far superior competition.

osu played poorly almost the entire game and in spite of that fact only lost part of one quarter of play and it ended up costing them the game.

what would you like us to say? "osu played badly damn near the entire game but still managed to keep it respectable with the far superior, speedy sec titans. who should have been able to play usc, since, you know, they only lost twice with a weaker schedule?"

just what is it that you are complaining about? the osu fans not coming out and saying that lsu is a far greater team or that the sec is a far greater conference?[/quote]
What? You make little, to no, sense.


I guess Kirk Herbstreit is an SEC circle jerker too... Oh yeah, so is Todd Blackledge...

wait both of those guys played in the Big Ten. What are both of those guys saying the SEC is the superior conference doing?

Whatever.

OSU had a good season considering it was supposed to be a rebuilding year and should be happy they had as good a season as they did. If they don't lose too much from early entry to the NFL draft they should be loaded next year for another run.

Kudos.

[CoMmEnT]

This thread is hilarious.

Still OSU fans have no reason to talk today. You lost, badly. Move on and get over it.

[cwing]

The Bottom Line:

SEC 6-2 in Bowls coming off the 07 season.

OSU 0-9 against the SEC.

Enough said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cwing]

[quote name='steggyD' post='620386' date='Jan 8 2008, 12:03 PM']No teams play any games too far past Thanksgiving, minus the bowl games. So any of these cold weather arguments are bullshit.[/quote]

Very, very good point !!! Not to mention the -- we can beat you in the cold but we can't beat you when it's warm argument is just plain silly. Funny, OSU had no issues with the warm weather when they took out The U.

Maybe they should rethink that 8-10 week vacation -------- opps, never mind. That would mean they would have to play in cold weather.

[ccartman2]

[quote name='cwing' post='620439' date='Jan 8 2008, 02:04 PM']Very, very good point !!! Not to mention the -- we can beat you in the cold but we can't beat you when it's warm argument is just plain silly. Funny, OSU had no issues with the warm weather when they took out The U.

Maybe they should rethink that 8-10 week vacation -------- opps, never mind. That would mean they would have to play in cold weather.[/quote]

Actually in the 2009 schedule and beyond, they have added an extra bye week in order to play a game after thanksgiving to appease chumps like you. With the exception of Confrence championships, which the Big Ten will never add unless forced by the NCAA, they played the same amount of games as every one else (with one less bye week no less). That includes Georgia & USC, two teams that many thought have been ahead of OSU because they played later into the season. Just a plain dumb arguement if you ask me....but you wish will be granted.

[cwing]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='620458' date='Jan 8 2008, 02:54 PM']Actually in the 2009 schedule and beyond, they have added an extra bye week in order to play a game after thanksgiving to appease chumps like you. With the exception of Confrence championships, which the Big Ten will never add unless forced by the NCAA, they played the same amount of games as every one else (with one less bye week no less). That includes Georgia & USC, two teams that many thought have been ahead of OSU because they played later into the season. Just a plain dumb arguement if you ask me....but you wish will be granted.[/quote]

The point is not the number of games played. The point is they are off far too long and this hurts more than helps when it comes to Bowl games.

By the way, why the chump comment? I do not believe I have ever insulted you and I am not an LSU fan nor am I an OSU hater. I am a college football fan and the truth is the truth whether you like it or not.



Conference-by-conference bowl records
How each fared during the 32 postseason games

Conference Schools Record Percentage
Sun Belt (1) Fla. Atlantic 1-0 1.000
MWC (5) AF,BYU,NM,TCU,Utah 4-1 .800
SEC (9) Ala,Ark,Aub,Fla,Ga,Ky,LSU,MissSt,Ten 7-2 .778
Pac-10 (6) ASU,Cal,Ore,OSU,UCLA,USC 4-2 .667
Big East (5) Cin,Rut,UConn,USF,WV 3-2 .600
Big 12 (8) CU,KU,Mis,OU,OSU,Tex,TexA&M,TT 5-3 .625
Big Ten (8) Ill,Ind,Mich,MichSt,OSU,PSU,Pur,Wis 3-5 .375
C-USA (6) EC,Hou,Mem,SMiss,Tul,UCF 2-4 .333
ACC (8) BC,Clem,FSU,GT,Mary,UVa.,VT,WF 2-6 .250
WAC (4) BSU,FresSt,Haw,Nev 1-3 .250
Independents (1) Navy 0-1 .000
MAC (3) BallSt,BG,CMich 0-3 .000

[Khatmandude]

Here's the REAL reason (besides not playing in Antarctica) the Buckeyes lost the game:

[quote]Columbus, Ohio — When former LSU coach Gerry DiNardo arrived at Indiana in 2002, he went to work bringing a piece of the Southeastern Conference to Big Ten recruiting.

He successfully pushed for a rule change that introduced the concept of "oversigning" to his new conference, but on a limited basis. Five years later, there's still a difference in how the Big Ten and other conferences, like the SEC, put their recruiting classes together.

"Is it a competitive disadvantage for the Big Ten? The short answer is yes," said DiNardo, now an analyst for the Big Ten Network. "But it's not as much as it used to be."

When the Big Ten made the change in 2002, it instituted a policy where teams could oversign by no more than three players, and DiNardo said a detailed explanation behind the oversigning had to be submitted to the Big Ten. The SEC is among the conferences with no guidelines.

At the time, Michigan coach Lloyd Carr told reporters exactly why the Big Ten had to adjust, and a game like Monday's national title game between Ohio State and LSU was part of his reasoning.

"When you look at our bowl hookup with the SEC ... it's an important rule," Carr said then. "I can remember going to bowl games with 77, 76 guys on scholarship against a team with 85.

"In bowl games against conferences that have an advantage of doing that, Big Ten teams were at a severe disadvantage."

For some, the idea of oversigning, or signing more players to national letters of intent than the school has available scholarships, potentially puts recruits in situations where they could be squeezed out in a space crunch. South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier had to shoot down charges that a Gamecocks recruit was dumped because of oversigning this year. Spurrier denied that and said he was angry with his school for not admitting the player academically.

More believe oversigning is a necessary practice that allows schools to take chances on players who might not qualify academically, benefiting the school and the players, and ensures a full roster of 85 after the natural attrition of transfers and injuries that takes place at every school.

For example, a school with 21 open scholarships could sign 26 players in February, with maybe 15 certainties and some group of six of the 11 other players expected to reach enrollment. Or perhaps three summer transfers would open opportunities if nine of the 11 were admitted to school.

But what happens when a school signs extra players and by the end of summer has more players than openings, which could lead to an NCAA penalty resulting in a loss of scholarships?

"I sweated it out," DiNardo said. "You always had to have a Plan B ready."

That includes having players enroll in a junior college or prep school, or "grayshirting," and having a player wait to enroll in January so his scholarship counts against the following year's total.

The extra flexibility afforded the SEC is apparent in the data. According to numbers compiled by the recruiting service Scout.com, SEC teams lined up an average of 101 commitments during the four-year period from 2004-2007. Big Ten teams averaged 85 recruits in the same period.

That's why it's more difficult for Big Ten teams to win the battles in recruiting ratings each year. Classes are graded by recruiting services on a total points scale that takes into account the rating of players and the total number of players in a class. The Big Ten just doesn't sign as many players. For the two teams meeting Monday, LSU signed 92 players in the last four years while Ohio State signed 79.

"I don't know if there's a right way or a wrong way, but it's interesting to see those numbers," said Jeremy Crabtree, a national recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. "Some schools in the SEC are able to say, 'We're going to offer borderline kids a scholarship and hope it works out.' We don't see that with the Big Ten. We still are talking about student-athletes, so I can see why some institutions want to accept some limits."

Big Ten basketball coaches didn't want to accept them. Ohio State men's coach Thad Matta said he was one of the coaches who pushed the conference to allow oversigning in basketball. For the first time, with the recruiting classes announced in November, the Big Ten allowed its basketball teams to oversign by one player.

Matta said that was an important step in creating wiggle room for schools with players who may or may not leave for the NBA. Coaches must prepare for potential departures and need to oversign at times to do it. Matta, only half-jokingly, said he told superstar center Greg Oden, one of three OSU freshman who left for the NBA after last season, that he could come back for his sophomore season this year, but not for his junior year because his scholarship had already been given away.

"I was looking last year and thinking, 'I could get caught holding the bag here if you don't let me oversign,'" Matta said.

So the conference made a concession, as it had in football. For the players and the coaches, the flexibility of more recruits creates an edge.

Said Jamie Newberg, a national football recruiting analyst for Scout.com, "The bottom line is, you never know who is going to make it."[/quote]


[url="http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2008/01/03/oversign_0103.html"]http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/s...rsign_0103.html[/url]

[JC]

Georgia is going to be sick next year.

[sigshoota]

I wouldn't say OSU was beat by the SEC speed, I would however say they were beat by a better team on Monday night. The personnal fouls absolutely killed the Bucks along with the roughing the punter. Beckman had a horrible game, and for the life of me I can't understand why after they went up 10-0 Tressel diddn't hand Beanie the ball until he was puking. LSU took it to Ohio State in the 2nd quarter and that was all they needed for the game. So props to LSU, they were the better team on that evening, however take away some of those bonehead penalties and we are talking about at least a much, much closer game. LSU was prepared-the Bucks not so much.

[ccartman2]

[quote name='cwing' post='620464' date='Jan 8 2008, 03:11 PM']The point is not the number of games played. The point is they are off far too long and this hurts more than helps when it comes to Bowl games.

By the way, why the chump comment? I do not believe I have ever insulted you and I am not an LSU fan nor am I an OSU hater. I am a college football fan and the truth is the truth whether you like it or not.



Conference-by-conference bowl records
How each fared during the 32 postseason games

Conference Schools Record Percentage
Sun Belt (1) Fla. Atlantic 1-0 1.000
MWC (5) AF,BYU,NM,TCU,Utah 4-1 .800
SEC (9) Ala,Ark,Aub,Fla,Ga,Ky,LSU,MissSt,Ten 7-2 .778
Pac-10 (6) ASU,Cal,Ore,OSU,UCLA,USC 4-2 .667
Big East (5) Cin,Rut,UConn,USF,WV 3-2 .600
Big 12 (8) CU,KU,Mis,OU,OSU,Tex,TexA&M,TT 5-3 .625
Big Ten (8) Ill,Ind,Mich,MichSt,OSU,PSU,Pur,Wis 3-5 .375
C-USA (6) EC,Hou,Mem,SMiss,Tul,UCF 2-4 .333
ACC (8) BC,Clem,FSU,GT,Mary,UVa.,VT,WF 2-6 .250
WAC (4) BSU,FresSt,Haw,Nev 1-3 .250
Independents (1) Navy 0-1 .000
MAC (3) BallSt,BG,CMich 0-3 .000[/quote]

Okay, sorry about the Chump mark. My point is that it was a stupid argument as to why they should not get to a National Title game. I do agree with you the long layoff hurts more then it helps.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

I hope the Bengals draft LSU's speedy TE who caught 2 TD passes.

He was so fast I couldn't see the defender covering him...twice...for TDs, for Christ sakes









My opinion is the Buckeyes were out coached, not out speeded.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='620592' date='Jan 9 2008, 02:51 AM']I hope the Bengals draft LSU's speedy TE who caught 2 TD passes.

He was so fast I couldn't see the defender covering him...twice...for TDs, for Christ sakes









My opinion is the Buckeyes were out coached, not out speeded.[/quote]


Everyone has been saying OSU was outcoached, yet if Robiske held onto that catch for a TD, and if that dumbass would have gone straight for the ball and blocked that punt instead of roughing the kicker, OSU probably would have won that game.

Only coaching probolem I really had was when they got the ball down 14 with 8 mins left and acted like they had a 20 point lead and taking up the whole clock before running plays.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

I wasn't crazy about the play calling. It seemed like the Buckeyes were always behind in down and distance on offense which allowed LSU to be more aggressive defensively.

On defense, the Buckeyes couldn't stop LSU on 3rd down; mostly 3rd and short. I'd think a coach or two might suggest to his players to cover the TE in the red zone after he strolled in for one TD earlier.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Buckeyes weren't outcoached, they were just out executed.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='620740' date='Jan 9 2008, 01:51 PM']I wasn't crazy about the play calling. It seemed like the Buckeyes were always behind in down and distance on offense which allowed LSU to be more aggressive defensively.

On defense, the Buckeyes couldn't stop LSU on 3rd down; mostly 3rd and short. I'd think a coach or two might suggest to his players to cover the TE in the red zone after he strolled in for one TD earlier.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Buckeyes weren't outcoached, they were just out executed.[/quote]


agreed that they weren't outcoached as much as they were out gameplanned/executed. On offense, I don't think they made the most use of their speed guys like Robiskie, Hartline, Small, Saine, Mo Wells (as a WR) and Sansenbacher. The latter 3 had about 4 combined snaps (all by Saine)


On defense, I think the biggest mistake, which was mostly corrected in the second half, was playing a straight zone against a spread offense. They adjusted at halftime, and you saw more of a zone blitz D like pissburgh. DE's dropping back, LB's coming in.

[cwing]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='620566' date='Jan 8 2008, 11:44 PM']Okay, sorry about the Chump mark. My point is that it was a stupid argument as to why they should not get to a National Title game. I do agree with you the long layoff hurts more then it helps.[/quote]

No problem !!!

Offically I am an OSU and a SEC fan. Really more of a college football fan. Last year Florida was underrated and shocked OSU. This year I believe LSU was just a better team than OSU. I also believe that game could have been played between many others as there was no clear cut 1 or 2. Hell , there is not a clear cut top 6.

Next year is very likely to be Georgia vs OSU.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

[quote name='cwing' post='620766' date='Jan 9 2008, 02:44 PM']Next year is very likely to be Georgia vs OSU.[/quote]
I think OSU's chances would depend upon how many juniors decide to declare for this year's draft.

And I think the win/loss column would have to play out again like this year. OSU undefeated and everyone else with 1 or 2 losses.

Because if OSU is vying with 3 undefeated teams or 2 one loss teams to get into the NC game next year; I think the Buckeyes would be left on the outside looking in based upon the last two NC games.

[cwing]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='620779' date='Jan 9 2008, 03:05 PM']I think OSU's chances would depend upon how many juniors decide to declare for this year's draft.

And I think the win/loss column would have to play out again like this year. OSU undefeated and everyone else with 1 or 2 losses.

Because if OSU is vying with 3 undefeated teams or 2 one loss teams to get into the NC game next year; I think the Buckeyes would be left on the outside looking in based upon the last two NC games.[/quote]

Maybe but maybe not ---------

Preseason rankings for next year as heard on the radio are;

1) USC
2) Georgia
3) OSU

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='cwing' post='620942' date='Jan 10 2008, 07:44 AM']Maybe but maybe not ---------

Preseason rankings for next year as heard on the radio are;

1) USC
2) Georgia
3) OSU[/quote]
Well, wouldn't that match exactly what Loyal was saying?

Loyal said, and I quote,

[quote]I think OSU's chances would depend upon how many juniors decide to declare for this year's draft.[/quote]

As those guys still have several days to declare the rankings you're posting are on the premise the existing team and available returning starters all come back. If all do, then they're returning like 21 of 22 starters, the only one being the LB Grant, I think. That is pretty strong. I don't think any OSU players, at this point, have declared yet. But, like 1181 said, I'd guess they'll lose Lauranaitis, Gholston, Jenkins, etc. to name a few. If that occurs, their preseason ranking will drop come August, as any team's would.

[Bengals1181]

does USC have a QB next year? Sanchez is not the answer

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='620957' date='Jan 10 2008, 09:03 AM']does USC have a QB next year? Sanchez is not the answer[/quote]
Well, they've got Sanchez and Mitch Mustain, the transfer from Arkansas that sat out this year. He looked pretty good his freshman year at Arkansas but they didn't pass enough to suit him. I'd imagine those two will battle it out in the spring and fall practice. he was like the #1 qb in his recruiting class.

For UT's, OSU's, and everyone else's sake I hope he doesn't pan out!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='620779' date='Jan 9 2008, 03:05 PM']I think OSU's chances would depend upon how many juniors decide to declare for this year's draft.

And I think the win/loss column would have to play out again like this year. OSU undefeated and everyone else with 1 or 2 losses.

Because if OSU is vying with 3 undefeated teams or 2 one loss teams to get into the NC game next year; I think the Buckeyes would be left on the outside looking in based upon the last two NC games.[/quote]


keep in mind though that if OSU goes undefeated next year, they will have beaten USC at USC.