*** MIKE ZIMMER IS THE NEW DC ***

[oldschooler]

A Bengals fan asked Falcons fans on ESPN`s board
what they thought of Zimmer. There were only
3 replies so far, but all were positive . . .

[quote]He did a decent job considering the offense could not do much this year. His schemes were win some, lose some but, overall, I think he did a good job.



our D was much better and more agressive under Zim than than in the previous regime under Mora.



He did a very good job with what he had to work with and the conditions under which the team played the season. He'll do well in Cincy.[/quote]






[url="http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=atl&tid=2195663&lid=3"]http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?spo...95663&lid=3[/url]

[Jason]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='622139' date='Jan 13 2008, 11:19 AM']2000: they were ranked 22nd in points allowed (22.6)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2000&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]

2001: they were ranked 20th in points allowed (21.1)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2001&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]


2002: they were ranked 13th in points allowed (20.6)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2002&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]



2003: they were ranked 2nd in points allowed (16.2)


[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2003&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]



2004: they were ranked 25th in points allowed (25.3)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]


2005: they were ranked 12th in points allowed (19.2)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]


2006: they were ranked 20th in points allowed (21.9)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2006&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url]



2007: the Falcons were ranked 29th in points allowed (25.9)

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...amp;Submit=Find[/url][/quote]

That is a less than impressive track record.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jason' post='622150' date='Jan 13 2008, 10:44 AM']That is a less than impressive track record.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.[/quote]


You`re becoming a cynical fart in your old age.


I think he gets a mulligan for last year.

Also, he ran a Defense in Dallas that he had never
ran before from 2003-2006.

Plus you have to remember, that those stats
include ALL the points the team allowed,
not just those given up by the Defense.
Pick 6s, fumbles returned for TDs, TDs allowed
by the special teams ect . So they can be skewed a bit.


You really think he won`t be better than Bres ?
Oh wait, I know . . . "show me".
Well if that`s your stance, then maybe you should
wait til shown either way, before you start saying stuff like
"the more things change, the more they stay the same" . . .

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jason' post='622150' date='Jan 13 2008, 11:44 AM']That is a less than impressive track record.

[b]The more things change, the more they stay the same.[/b][/quote]


so you're already going to throw the front office under the bus for hiring a guy that they haven't even hired yet and hasn't gotten a chance to show what he can do with our players?


That's some smart thinking there.


god forbid we actually let him get hired to the job before we decide that he did a crappy job.

[claptonrocks]

Every DC thats interviewing around the league has a decent resume from somewhere..
Its about the players he has to incorporate his system and whether he adjusts to the personnel he has to make it work to its utmost.. Even then without the players he could fall short of expectaions.
Zimmer is a contrast to Breshnahen imo... Stern yet fair taskmaster that gets in your face oppposed to a rah rah x and o man that seemed isolated in his own world on the sidelines.....
I dont know if Zimmer will be better, worse or the same but its a different approach and for that
Im optomistic.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Jason' post='622150' date='Jan 13 2008, 11:44 AM']That is a less than impressive track record.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.[/quote]


what a crybaby.

show me a list of AVAILABLE DC's with a better reputation and track record....

[cinci1fan1]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='622180' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:17 PM']what a crybaby.

show me a list of [b]AVAILABLE DC's[/b] with a better reputation and track record....[/quote]

You forgot Chucky

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Jason' post='622150' date='Jan 13 2008, 11:44 AM']That is a less than impressive track record.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.[/quote]


thats an average of 16th place excluding 2007. middle of the road, 17th including 2007.

[Jason]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='622180' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:17 PM']what a crybaby.

show me a list of AVAILABLE DC's with a better reputation and track record....[/quote]

I'm sure there are plenty of young position coaches, or college DCs out there.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jason' post='622194' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:44 PM']I'm sure there are plenty of young position coaches, or college DCs out there.[/quote]


so you'd rather have an unproven coordinator? Do tell why.

[bengaled]

odd. the opinion to replace bresnahan seemed to be shared almost universally. i can't believe a good candidate like zimmer is receiving opposition....from ANYONE. really...i can't. if the guy has survived all those years in jerry jones' regime, when 5 head coaches have come and gone, what more of a statement do you need than that?

if we pull this off tomorrow, it will be a great hire. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img]

as barack says..."i'm fired up!"

[Arkansas Bengal]

It doesn't matter WHO they get as Defensive Coordinator until they upgrade the Defense. We need to get back our injured/suspended players, sign an impact free agent or two, and have a great defensive draft. Once that's done maybe the Defense can improve to the mid-teen rankings.

It would also help if Zimmer can teach the Defense how to tackle.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Arkansas Bengal' post='622200' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:52 PM']It doesn't matter WHO they get as Defensive Coordinator until they upgrade the Defense. We need to get back our injured/suspended players, sign an impact free agent or two, and have a great defensive draft. Once that's done maybe the Defense can improve to the mid-teen rankings.

It would also help if Zimmer can teach the Defense how to tackle.[/quote]


I agree to an extent, but I think a scheme change can also work. IMO, playing bump and run more this season would have greatly helped our pass defense, especially with the lack of a pass rush. Also, as far as the pass rush goes, it was blatantly clear (and even quoted by Justin in game) that their stunts and games didn't work. I'm sure they could have been more creative on that front.


They can certainly use more talent on that side of the ball, but a good scheme can mask a talent deficiency.

[Jason]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='622180' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:17 PM'][b]what a crybaby[/b].

show me a list of AVAILABLE DC's with a better reputation and track record....[/quote]

Because I am not happy with the Status Quo" I'm a crybaby? Then call me a crybaby.

[quote name='GoBengals' post='622191' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:39 PM']thats an average of 16th place excluding 2007. middle of the road, 17th including 2007.[/quote]

Take out his best and worst year and he averages about 19th.

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='622196' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:45 PM']so you'd rather have an unproven coordinator? Do tell why.[/quote]

I'd rather take a chance with someone becoming really good than take someone who's track record is mediocrity. Rex Ryan was unproven once. So was Tony Dungy, Jimmy Johnson, and every other great DC.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jason' post='622205' date='Jan 13 2008, 03:20 PM']Because I am not happy with the Status Quo" I'm a crybaby? Then call me a crybaby.



Take out his best and worst year and he averages about 19th.



[b]I'd rather take a chance with someone becoming really good[/b] than take someone who's track record is mediocrity. Rex Ryan was unproven once. So was Tony Dungy, Jimmy Johnson, and every other great DC.[/quote]


rebuilding teams take chances on unproven coaches. We aren't a rebuilding team. I could see your point if you were talking about bringing in an unproven guy from college and giving him the LB coaching job, but we're not in a position to be going after unproven coordinators.

[Jason]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='622209' date='Jan 13 2008, 03:33 PM']rebuilding teams take chances on unproven coaches. We aren't a rebuilding team. I could see your point if you were talking about bringing in an unproven guy from college and giving him the LB coaching job, but we're not in a position to be going after unproven coordinators.[/quote]

Our defense is in a constant state of rebuilding it seems. Again, aside from mediocrity, what has Zimmer proven, according to the stats Old posted?

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='622209' date='Jan 13 2008, 03:33 PM']rebuilding teams take chances on unproven coaches. We aren't a rebuilding team. I could see your point if you were talking about bringing in an unproven guy from college and giving him the LB coaching job, but we're not in a position to be going after unproven coordinators.[/quote]

Jason made the statement about younger assistants not just college....
Dallas brought in two unproven coordinators in Garrett for OC and Stewart for DC...Hell stewart was a secondary coach....

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='622236' date='Jan 13 2008, 04:34 PM']Jason made the statement about younger assistants not just college....
Dallas brought in two unproven coordinators in Garrett for OC and Stewart for DC...Hell stewart was a secondary coach....[/quote]


and it worked out well for them. They also knew what kind of person Garrett was and what he was capable of from his playing days there.


More often than not, I bet it doesn't work out.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='Jason' post='622230' date='Jan 13 2008, 04:24 PM']Our defense is in a constant state of rebuilding it seems. Again, aside from mediocrity, what has Zimmer proven, according to the stats Old posted?[/quote]

I'm not really sure what you could possibly be arguing here. You've obviously never been in a room with him, you didn't sit in on the interview, you haven't gameplanned with him, how do you know he's 'mediocre'? There weren't any extenuating circumstances? Like having Dat Nguyen as your MLB? How 'bout the fact that Bill Parcells thought enough of his football intelligence to keep him on as DC even though he ran a completely different defense? Does that hold weight with you? Or do you just scan NFL.com for stats?

[DanvilleBengal]

We take too much credence in ratings, especially in trying to prove a point. Does it really matter that the Bengals have a top ten defense or a defense that can consistently make the stops that they have to make?

Look at both the Cowboys and the Colts this week, and the Buccanneers and Steelers last week. All of them have top defenses based on ratings. But guess what? Their stingy defenses are sitting at home like us, watching the eventual coronation of the Patriots (deep down, we all know that Brady and crew are gonna hold up that Lombardi again) as lords and masters of the league again.

Does it really matter that Zimmer's defenses aren't highly ranked, or that he was able to turn cast-offs, trash, and street bums into consistent defenses?

I am really starting to hate the whole ranking thing anyway. All that matter is that down after down, the defense plays at a consistent level.

I know there are plenty of you that are thinking the same thing that I've just typed. FIRE AWAY!!!!

[ccartman2]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='622244' date='Jan 13 2008, 04:47 PM']and it worked out well for them. They also knew what kind of person Garrett was and what he was capable of from his playing days there.


More often than not, I bet it doesn't work out.[/quote]

We don't have enough scouts to do that.

[ccartman2]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='622290' date='Jan 13 2008, 08:35 PM']We take too much credence in ratings, especially in trying to prove a point. Does it really matter that the Bengals have a top ten defense or a defense that can consistently make the stops that they have to make?

Look at both the Cowboys and the Colts this week, and the Buccanneers and Steelers last week. All of them have top defenses based on ratings. But guess what? Their stingy defenses are sitting at home like us, watching the eventual coronation of the Patriots (deep down, we all know that Brady and crew are gonna hold up that Lombardi again) as lords and masters of the league again.

Does it really matter that Zimmer's defenses aren't highly ranked, or that he was able to turn cast-offs, trash, and street bums into consistent defenses?

I am really starting to hate the whole ranking thing anyway. All that matter is that down after down, the defense plays at a consistent level.

I know there are plenty of you that are thinking the same thing that I've just typed. FIRE AWAY!!!![/quote]

Agreed. Oakland's D looked awesome in 2006, but that was really because the team was so bad, teams just went in ran the ball the whole game and got out of their early. Hell we did it against them. We had a top 10 offense this year, but I know many of us weren't really that happy with the O either.

Plus, give the Bengals the 15th rank D and the O gets back to the top 5 and I would say we have a great shot at going deep in the playoffs.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='622299' date='Jan 13 2008, 09:03 PM']We don't have enough scouts to do that. [/quote]


to do what?

[Jason]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='622281' date='Jan 13 2008, 07:37 PM']I'm not really sure what you could possibly be arguing here. You've obviously never been in a room with him, you didn't sit in on the interview, you haven't gameplanned with him, how do you know he's 'mediocre'? There weren't any extenuating circumstances? Like having Dat Nguyen as your MLB? How 'bout the fact that Bill Parcells thought enough of his football intelligence to keep him on as DC even though he ran a completely different defense? Does that hold weight with you? Or do you just scan NFL.com for stats?[/quote]

I know he has been a DC for 8 seasons. In those 8 seasons he has had 5 finishes of 20 or lower in scoring defense. And 4 seasons of 8 his team has been in the bottom half of the league in yards. Although, to his credit, he did have 3 Top 10 finishes in yardage defense (but in 1 of those he was still 20th in scoring).

How else do you want to measure a defense if not by stats?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jason' post='622311' date='Jan 13 2008, 09:30 PM']I know he has been a DC for 8 seasons. In those 8 seasons he has had 5 finishes of 20 or lower in scoring defense. And 4 seasons of 8 his team has been in the bottom half of the league in yards. Although, to his credit, he did have 3 Top 10 finishes in yardage defense (but in 1 of those he was still 20th in scoring).

How else do you want to measure a defense if not by stats?[/quote]


well, time of possession would be a factor. If he's a DC on a team with a crappy offense, his D is going to get hung out to dry and on the field for the majority of games.