*** MIKE ZIMMER IS THE NEW DC ***

[bengaled]

[quote name='texbengal' post='623668' date='Jan 16 2008, 07:13 PM']I think both haven't had a lot to work with, generally. I think with Zimmer coming in, with his focus on technique, IF Justin is re-signed, we might see a different player. One can hope. I found it interesting that when Zim was asked at the press conference if he had a chance to evaluate the Bengal defenders, he specifically mentioned the young guys in the backfield, and some LBs... but not the DL. May have just been an inadvertent admission... or not.[/quote]

then again, that's been the areas he's coached, so he'd have a better opinion of them. he really has no experience as a DL coach....which i have to admit remains somewhat of a concern to me (since we didn't shitcan hayes). only time will tell what help he can offer/lend in that area. i'm convinced that help is direly needed.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Matt1530homer' post='623606' date='Jan 16 2008, 05:27 PM']I don't understand why the Hayes boys are still here...if this team had a pass rush, the DBs could do so much more out there. You can't cover somebody forever

The Hayes boys must be a package deal with Marvin...or they have photos...[/quote]
clearly marvin, and myself for several months, feel the LB situation is the cause of the lack of pass rush.

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]New coordinator big on technique, not scheme[/b][/size]
By Chick Ludwig

Staff Writer

Thursday, January 17, 2008


CINCINNATI — For the Bengals' 27th-ranked defense, the long road back to respectability begins with discipline.

"You have to coach tough to be tough," new defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer said on Wednesday. "You have to have that mentality that this is the line in the sand, and we're not letting the guys cross it.

"I'm big on technique. I want to make sure guys do the things we're asking them to do — have their hands in the right place and their feet in the right place — do it right and play hard all the time."

[b]Discovery period[/b]

Zimmer will spend the next several weeks immersed in film study and player evaluation.

"I know they've got some good, young players on the back end (secondary) and quite a few linebackers," he said.

"Everything's an open slate. Let's start and go from what I see on the field, see how they are professionally, how they are as far as their passion for the game, and how bad they want to win."

[b]Talking about schemes[/b]

Zimmer knows the 4-3 defense well, but he ran the 3-4 scheme in Dallas under Bill Parcells from 2003-06 before moving to Atlanta for one season.

"I've always said this: 'You've got 11 guys. Put 'em out there,' " Zimmer said. "The scheme really doesn't matter. It's how the players fit and play within the scheme.

"If the best thing for us is to play two down linemen and nine DBs, it doesn't matter to me. We'll just figure out what's best with the personnel we have and the best way we can do it, and we'll go about it."

[b]'A good fit'[/b]

Zimmer's friendship with head coach Marvin Lewis dates to the early 1980s when both were college assistants — Lewis at Idaho State and Zimmer at Weber State.

"My first year as a coordinator in Dallas (2000), we didn't play the run very good," Zimmer said. "So I visited Marvin in Baltimore — our philosophies were very similar — and then we became pretty good against the run after that.

"It's a good fit for me because I think I can help this franchise. If we can get the guys to do what we ask them to do, we'll be OK. I know this is a tough division. It'll be a tough test, but that's why we're here."

[b]Dallas parallel[/b]

Zimmer spent 13 years with Dallas (1994-2006), the final seven as coordinator. His 2003 defense led the NFL at 253.5 yards allowed per game. That's his goal for the Bengals.

"We'll keep trying to build them up about what we expect and how we can change the culture and fix this or fix that," he said. "It was very much like that after my first year in Dallas. Everybody was saying how terrible we were on defense. From that point on, we were pretty good. Hopefully, I can take the same approach we did that year.

"It taught me that if you can get all the guys playing on the same page, doing things right, and they care about winning and care about doing what you want them to do, then you've got a chance to be pretty good."

[b]Getting it right[/b]

Zimmer becomes the third defensive coordinator in six seasons for Cincinnati after Leslie Frazier (2003-04) and Chuck Bresnahan (2005-07).

"I haven't gotten this right once before," head coach Marvin Lewis said. "Leslie is a fine coach. The way I envisioned things unfolding, they just didn't unfold that way. That was no fault of Leslie's. It was my fault. Now I'm doing this again.

"It was obvious we needed to make a change. We needed to have fresh life, new life."

Added Zimmer: "Hopefully, (Lewis) gets it right this time."

[b]Bottom line[/b]

"You've got to have players, but they have to be well-coached," Zimmer said. "In my opinion, all of the good players want to be coached. They want discipline. They want all those things that make them better players.

"If they respect your knowledge of the game and what you can help them with, then they'll go full speed and all the way for you."


Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2253 or cludwig@DaytonDailyNews.com[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Zimmer brings bold mindset[/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Lewis hoping 3rd coordinator right fit for team's defense[/b][/size]
BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

The third time might be the charm for Marvin Lewis and the position of defensive coordinator on his Bengals coaching staff.

Lewis called the hiring of Mike Zimmer as coordinator an important one for himself and the organization. Zimmer is the third defensive coordinator in the five years Lewis has been the Bengals' head coach. He follows Chuck Bresnahan, who was fired Jan. 2 after three seasons, and Leslie Frazier.

Lewis made an uncharacteristic admission Wednesday.


"We're at a point as a football team that, I haven't got this right once before," Lewis said in his introduction of Zimmer at a Paul Brown Stadium news conference. "I think I said when we didn't renew Leslie's contract, Leslie is a fine football coach. Things the way I envisioned unfolding didn't unfold that way. It wasn't Leslie. It was my fault. Now I am doing this again. It was obvious we needed to make a change. We needed fresh life, new life."

Lewis talked of philosophical differences with Frazier, now Minnesota's defensive coordinator. He didn't say there were differences with Bresnahan but did go out of his way to say there were none with Zimmer.

"It's important, that Mike and (I) philosophically, that's where we have been somewhat joined," said Lewis, who met Zimmer, 51, when they were assistant coaches on the recruiting trail in the early 1980s for Idaho State and Weber State in the Big Sky Conference.

"That was the attraction right away," Lewis said. "I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. The foundation, we wanted to continue to build on that. Mike had to be accepting of, to continue with, the foundation and work from there."

Job One for Zimmer is to create a tough, physical identity for the Bengals' defense. A decision will be made later in the offseason whether to switch the Bengals' base defense, which consists of four linemen and three linebackers, to one featuring four linebackers, Lewis said.

Zimmer, following a disappointing initial season as the Dallas Cowboys' defensive coordinator in 2000, sought out Lewis, who then was the coordinator of the Super Bowl-winning, record-setting Baltimore Ravens defense.

"I put it on myself, I was going to go around and visit people I respected and talk to them," said Zimmer, recalling a two-day visit with Lewis in Baltimore. "We talked football. I learned a lot at that time."

In 2001, Dallas' defense - truly a bunch of no-name players of whom little was expected, Zimmer said - ranked fourth in the NFL.

"We did what we did and went about our business," Zimmer said. "It taught me if you can get all the guys playing on the same page, doing the same thing, doing things right, and they care about football, doing what you want them to do, you have a chance to be pretty good."

Zimmer said he has watched tape of the Bengals' defense but had few specific comments, other than to say he saw good young players in the secondary and a lot of linebackers. Lewis said Zimmer would join in the evaluation of the Bengals' free agents, particularly those on defense - including four starters in linebackers Landon Johnson and Dhani Jones, safety Madieu Williams and end Justin Smith.

Though he doesn't know a lot about his players, Zimmer gave them a scouting report of their new coordinator.

"To be tough, you have to be coached tough," Zimmer said. "I'm an aggressive coach, a tough coach. ... Typically, I can (holler) and be a screamer. I'm a stickler for doing things right - big on technique, play hard all the time, (have) hands in the right place, feet in the right place.

"I think in pro football guys worry so much about who you're playing (and the opposing) scheme that your technique goes back, especially late in the year. I am a big stickler (for) making sure guys do the right things. I'm extremely demanding."

The Bengals' defense is considered the team's weakest unit.

"That's part of the job, being able to change the culture a little bit," Zimmer said. "I've been in situations before when your side of the ball has kind of been the one who gets kicked on all the time. If you can have a little success early, then a lot of things can change. We'll keep trying to build them up and what we expect. It was very much like that after my first year as coordinator at Dallas."

Lewis said the cupboard is not bare defensively in Cincinnati. The Bengals led the NFL in takeaways over the past three- and five-year periods, he said. Their past three No. 1 draft picks have been defensive players in linebacker David Pollack and cornerbacks Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall, though Pollack's future is not known because of the fractured neck he suffered in 2006.

"We didn't play football the way we need to on offense," Lewis said. "So the much-maligned group (defense) got very little help at some points."[/quote]



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[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]A familiar spot for Zimmer[/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Coordinator made Cowboys defense shine without stars [/b][/size]
Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:14 AM
By Scott Priestle

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

CINCINNATI -- In 2001, Mike Zimmer developed a reputation as a bright defensive mind by building a stout defense out of players largely lacking reputations. Those Dallas Cowboys featured Darren Woodson, Dat Nguyen, Dexter Coakley and assorted spare parts, but they finished fourth in the NFL in yards allowed.

It was Zimmer's second season as an NFL defensive coordinator, and it solidified a coaching philosophy he carries into his new job as defensive coordinator of the Bengals: Success is about more than schemes and stars.

"They loved playing football," he recalled yesterday. "They didn't care about anything else, and we didn't change much week to week. We did what we did. It taught me that if you can get all the guys playing on the same page, doing the same thing, doing things right -- and they care about football and they care about winning and they care about doing what you want them to do -- then you've got a chance to be pretty good."

If Zimmer is to have similar success in Cincinnati, it will be under similar circumstances. The Bengals have devoted about 60 percent of the salary cap to the offense. Their best-known and most-decorated players are quarterback Carson Palmer, receivers Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, running back Rudi Johnson and tackles Levi Jones and Willie Anderson.

It has been that way for most of the past two decades: While offensive standouts such as Anthony Munoz, Boomer Esiason, James Brooks, Carl Pickens and Corey Dillon played their way into multiple Pro Bowls, the Bengals defense ranked in the bottom half of the league in 20 of the past 23 seasons.

Coach Marvin Lewis downplayed the possibility of the Bengals signing a high-profile defensive free agent, so it is up to Zimmer and his assistants to change the culture without drastically changing the landscape.

"It was very much like that after my first year as coordinator in Dallas," Zimmer said. "Everybody was saying how terrible we were on defense, and then from that point on we were pretty good. So hopefully I can change the culture here the way we did that year."

Lewis said his priority is "providing an identity … being physical and tough-minded." Zimmer is Lewis' third defensive coordinator in five-plus seasons.

"Mike and I, philosophically, are somewhat joined," he said.

Zimmer described himself as "a hollerer and a screamer" who focuses more on fundamentals than schemes.

"I'm big on technique," he said. "I want to make sure guys do the things we ask of them and do it right. Play hard all the time. Hands in the right place, feet in the right place. In pro football, I think a lot of guys get to the point where you worry so much about who you're playing that your technique goes bad, especially late in the year. So I'm a big stickler on a lot of those things."

Zimmer has experience with the 4-3 and 3-4 defenses, including transitioning the Cowboys to a 3-4. The Bengals have played a 4-3 in recent years, and their roster seems better suited to it, but neither Zimmer nor Lewis would commit to a style.

"We'll address that as we go through the spring," Lewis said.

spriestle@dispatch.com[/quote]


[url="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/bengals/stories/2008/01/17/bengals0117.ART0_ART_01-17-08_C5_T0935G3.html?type=rss&cat=&sid=101"]http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/benga...at=&sid=101[/url]

[NASTYNATI]

he cannot be any worse than Chuck B. so im okay with this deal.

[sparky151]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='623869' date='Jan 17 2008, 09:33 AM'][url="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/bengals/stories/2008/01/17/bengals0117.ART0_ART_01-17-08_C5_T0935G3.html?type=rss&cat=&sid=101"]http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/benga...at=&sid=101[/url]
Coach Marvin Lewis downplayed the possibility of the Bengals signing a high-profile defensive free agent, so it is up to Zimmer and his assistants to change the culture without drastically changing the landscape.[/quote]

The lack of committment to personnel improvement is the most distressing thing I've read today. The team has lots of cap space, glaring needs on defense, and is prepared to let it's own high profile players walk. Let's at least use some cap space to upgrade from the guys we lose.

[bengaled]

[quote name='sparky151' post='624100' date='Jan 17 2008, 06:32 PM']The lack of committment to personnel improvement is the most distressing thing I've read today. The team has lots of cap space, glaring needs on defense, and is prepared to let it's own high profile players walk. Let's at least use some cap space to upgrade from the guys we lose.[/quote]


get used to it. it's the "bengal way".

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sparky151' post='624100' date='Jan 17 2008, 05:32 PM']The lack of committment to personnel improvement is the most distressing thing I've read today. The team has lots of cap space, glaring needs on defense, and is prepared to let it's own high profile players walk. Let's at least use some cap space to upgrade from the guys we lose.[/quote]



Marvin didn`t say the Bengals wouldn`t add Free Agents.
He only said it wasn`t a fix all, and that they will continue
to build through the draft.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='sparky151' post='624100' date='Jan 17 2008, 06:32 PM']The lack of committment to personnel improvement is the most distressing thing I've read today. The team has lots of cap space, glaring needs on defense, and is prepared to let it's own high profile players walk. Let's at least use some cap space to upgrade from the guys we lose.[/quote]


what the hell ?

if the high profile guy wants, he eats 30% of the cap space on his way out the door, and of the 40+ guys signed, not many of them should be on the team, manning, maxwells, schlegals, etc. so replacing them is going to cost money too. we are going to need to replace about 15-18 guys. and we have just under 30 mil to do it.

thats 1.7-2 mil per player average... some will be rooks at lower cost. some will be rooks at higher cost. not to mention if we have to cut pollack or thurman from the roster, thats more cap hit, also rudi? jt? oneal? a few others we would take a small cap hit on.

we have many players to upgrade, not just empty roster spots to fill, if you didnt notice, the scrubbs we placed ont e roster werent very good.

there really isnt much money to be spent.

not to mention if we give tj an extension, any decent free agent upgrade is going to cost 4 mil on the cap each year of their deal. thats 15% of the available cap on one of 15-18 player we need to upgrade...

our biggest obstical is the draft, and drafting some talent that can contribute some thisyear and full time in 2009.

[mjm47]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='624332' date='Jan 18 2008, 11:34 AM']what the hell ?

if the high profile guy wants, he eats 30% of the cap space on his way out the door, and of the 40+ guys signed, not many of them should be on the team, manning, maxwells, schlegals, etc. so replacing them is going to cost money too. we are going to need to replace about 15-18 guys. and we have just under 30 mil to do it.

thats 1.7-2 mil per player average... some will be rooks at lower cost. some will be rooks at higher cost. not to mention if we have to cut pollack or thurman from the roster, thats more cap hit, also rudi? jt? oneal? a few others we would take a small cap hit on.

we have many players to upgrade, not just empty roster spots to fill, if you didnt notice, the scrubbs we placed ont e roster werent very good.

there really isnt much money to be spent.

not to mention if we give tj an extension, any decent free agent upgrade is going to cost 4 mil on the cap each year of their deal. thats 15% of the available cap on one of 15-18 player we need to upgrade...

our biggest obstical is the draft, and drafting some talent that can contribute some thisyear and full time in 2009.[/quote]

I think this is true to an extent - big name free agents are best suited to teams with most of the pieces in place, including good depth across the board.

But, if you think about it, we have decent depth on offense (excepting the interior o-line and wr) and in a few spots on defense. Go was talking about replacing all of the scrubs that were on our defense this year. We don't need to replace all of them if the guys that were starting (particularly at linebacker) are suddenly rotation/depth/special teams guys.

As far as guys on the roster, the team has a shitload of linebackers at the moment. Assuming that we definitely get Brooks back, and hoping that we get one of the Pollack/Thurman combo back, then we can immediately have two linebackers who were starting this year transformed into depth/special teams guys next year. They'll know the system and have great experience in actual game scenarios.

I'm not saying that we should run out and sign Dansby/Haynesworth (maybe Haynesworth) or any other top-tier FA and assume that they'll be a panacea, but, assuming that next year doesn't have the same sort of bad juju that this year had, I think that the roster is probably closer to full than you might think.

[sparky151]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='624332' date='Jan 18 2008, 12:34 PM']what the hell ?

if the high profile guy wants, he eats 30% of the cap space on his way out the door, and of the 40+ guys signed, not many of them should be on the team, manning, maxwells, schlegals, etc. so replacing them is going to cost money too. we are going to need to replace about 15-18 guys. and we have just under 30 mil to do it.

thats 1.7-2 mil per player average... some will be rooks at lower cost. some will be rooks at higher cost. not to mention if we have to cut pollack or thurman from the roster, thats more cap hit, also rudi? jt? oneal? a few others we would take a small cap hit on.

we have many players to upgrade, not just empty roster spots to fill, if you didnt notice, the scrubbs we placed ont e roster werent very good.

there really isnt much money to be spent.

not to mention if we give tj an extension, any decent free agent upgrade is going to cost 4 mil on the cap each year of their deal. thats 15% of the available cap on one of 15-18 player we need to upgrade...

our biggest obstical is the draft, and drafting some talent that can contribute some thisyear and full time in 2009.[/quote]

Please. Dansby or Briggs will cost less than we paid Justin last year. Suggs will cost more but only a couple mil per year more than Justin got. We can certainly afford at least 1 top of the line defensive free agent. The team may not sign such a player but it won't be because of the cap.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='sparky151' post='624366' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:28 PM']Please. Dansby or Briggs will cost less than we paid Justin last year. Suggs will cost more but only a couple mil per year more than Justin got. We can certainly afford at least 1 top of the line defensive free agent. The team may not sign such a player but it won't be because of the cap.[/quote]

having one great player surrounded by 5 garbage players at the same position isnpay 5 mil a year to a solid veteran center in no time.


ill find the thread i made a list of players on the roster who are making up that 40+ already signed number and see whos on it... there is a reason we take 80+ guys to camp, and its not because its fun, its because the roster is filled with garbage. given better palyers may not make a ton more than the garbage is making, but it will be a different. and a 400-500k different in 10 guys is 1/6th of the free cap space.

we have far more holes to fix than any one free agent is going to mend.

[sparky151]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='624382' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:58 PM']having one great player surrounded by 5 garbage players at the same position isnpay 5 mil a year to a solid veteran center in no time.


ill find the thread i made a list of players on the roster who are making up that 40+ already signed number and see whos on it... there is a reason we take 80+ guys to camp, and its not because its fun, its because the roster is filled with garbage. given better palyers may not make a ton more than the garbage is making, but it will be a different. and a 400-500k different in 10 guys is 1/6th of the free cap space.

we have far more holes to fix than any one free agent is going to mend.[/quote]

The Bengals main problem on defense is lack of quality in the front 7. A top tier free agent not only produces, he draws the opponents attention and makes his teammates better. Sign a top LB or D-lineman in FA, draft a couple on the first day, get Brooks and Thurman back, and things don't look too bad.

You are surely right that some of the guys under contract for next season won't be on the roster but also consider that we will be re-signing a lot of guys not currently under contract at reasonable prices. The EFA's will re-sign. The RFA's will all be tendered and most will be back. Some of the UFAs like Larson, Stepanovich, and Dhani will be back.

Suppose Justin, Landon, and Madieu leave. Miller, Schlegel, Maxwell, Mayes, Pollack, and Marshall won't be on the regular season roster either barring more injuries. Maybe Thornton and Dexter are cap cuts. That would leave us with a decent left side of the line in Geathers and Peko; adequate LBs in Jeanty, Brooks, and Jones; good CBs with JJ, Leon, and Deltha; and some promising but not very experienced safeties in Nedu and Marvin.

From that base, we'd need to add a veteran safety, and starting RDT and RDE. The RDE would be the hardest position to fill. Sign Suggs and Eugene Wilson, draft Sedrick Ellis, and our defense looks a lot better. All very doable from a cap perspective. Filling out the roster with affordable players isn't a problem. The Bengals traditionally import inexpensive players from other team's cut lists too.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='sparky151' post='624503' date='Jan 18 2008, 04:38 PM']The Bengals main problem on defense is lack of quality in the front 7. A top tier free agent not only produces, he draws the opponents attention and makes his teammates better. [b]Sign a top LB or D-lineman in FA, draft a couple on the first day, get Brooks and Thurman back, and things don't look too bad.
[/b]
You are surely right that some of the guys under contract for next season won't be on the roster but also consider that we will be re-signing a lot of guys not currently under contract at reasonable prices. The EFA's will re-sign. The RFA's will all be tendered and most will be back. Some of the UFAs like Larson, Stepanovich, and Dhani will be back.

Suppose Justin, Landon, and Madieu leave. Miller, Schlegel, Maxwell, Mayes, Pollack, and Marshall won't be on the regular season roster either barring more injuries. Maybe Thornton and Dexter are cap cuts. That would leave us with a decent left side of the line in Geathers and Peko; adequate LBs in Jeanty, Brooks, and Jones; good CBs with JJ, Leon, and Deltha; and some promising but not very experienced safeties in Nedu and Marvin.

From that base, we'd need to add a veteran safety, and starting RDT and RDE. The RDE would be the hardest position to fill. Sign Suggs and Eugene Wilson, draft Sedrick Ellis, and our defense looks a lot better. All very doable from a cap perspective. Filling out the roster with affordable players isn't a problem. The Bengals traditionally import inexpensive players from other team's cut lists too.[/quote]


you realize we would be lucky if even half of that was possible.

we also wont be signing "a lot" of guys who are free agents. maybe 2-5 tops, and easily 15 current roster holders need a new career. so even if its net 10 more to replace, thats almost 20 players to replace with under 30 mil, thats if we dont ahve to cut willie, and we keep chad, if we have to release willie and chad goes, thats like 11 mil in the ass, which would make signing 20 players actually nearly impossible. as a first and/or 2nd rounder would make 2-4 mil on the cap replacing a maxwell or manning or mays whos making 500k.. which is also a factor.


it would requite miracles to sign some huge dollar FA and put together any type of team with depth on defense.