Jamie_B Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Bunghole' post='625204' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:21 AM'][i]More[/i] ice melting into a river/stream/waterway in the mountains equals MORE water for the valley below, not less. I agree with you in this: there is no doubt that the Industrial Revolution has perpetrated more carbon emissions into the atmosphere than ever before, due to the burning of fossil fuels. There is no argument there at all. We also know that the Earth and her atmosphere are a self-cleaning mechanism. What we categorically do NOT know is how much our "carbon footprint" is truly affecting the air we breathe or the climate we live in. Earth has demonstrated a remarkable cyclic activity with regards to almost EVERY geologic instance, from volcanoes to earthquakes. It defeinetely remains to be seen what effect we truly have on the environment. I'm inclined to agree that more people equals more pollution...but doesn't the Earth always seem to have a resolution for that? See: the dinosaurs.[/quote] Agreed. [quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='625227' date='Jan 21 2008, 03:03 AM']For those who dismiss global warming, or the effect of human activity on global warming, or simply find concern over environmental issues to be, somehow, distasteful, you cannot escape the fact that petrol reserves are finite and, more immediately, the rate at which oil can be extracted from the ground [i]at any cost[/i] is bound to peak. The exact time of a peak is imprecise, but even conservative estimates put it in most of our lifetimes. Couple this with ever-increasing demand, particularly from developing countries, and even from a deluded 'fuck environmentalism' standpoint which one might justify as a (weak) appeal to practicality, one has reason to be interested in alternative energy sources and, more generally, sustainability.[/quote] China's industrial revolution they are currently undergoing has little to no oversight as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='625114' date='Jan 20 2008, 07:27 PM'][b]Bad source - a conservitive source? have anything more nutral? [/b] However Im somewhere in the middle of you two as much as Im enjoying poking fun at Scarlet. There are issues, but its no where near as bad as what some are being disenguous about.[/quote] that's the problem with climate change sources--most are biased because each side has a huge financial stake in the policy (grant money, taxes, etc.) all I have to say is, carbon credits? Follow the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='ScarletKnight' post='625141' date='Jan 20 2008, 08:28 PM']Well....from what I have read and watched on TV, scientists have been doing research deep into the ice to see what the ice contains and have come to the conclusion that green house gases have become present in the last 100 years, and now the ice is melting. So if they can tell how long the ice has been there then I am pretty sure it hasnt melted and then reformed in the same places (they said that the ice has been there for 850,000 years at the least) There is no question that the poles are melting. They have footage from 1994 of a scientist walking on ice accross chile and that ice is no longer there. Thats pretty serious stuff right there. Still, if the poles are melting...then that means changes elsewhere. With that said what is wrong with trying to clean the air up to help improve the situation (even if the science is wrong)? Theres no consequence in trying to solve a problem...but if the science is right and people dont do nething then there is a consequence.[/quote] teh problem with scientific alarmism is that it changes so often. In the 70s it was going to be global cooling, before that it was warming, before that it was cooling again. the only constant is that it is always DOOM in our future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanatical Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Bunghole' post='625204' date='Jan 20 2008, 11:21 PM']Earth has demonstrated a remarkable cyclic activity with regards to almost EVERY geologic instance, from volcanoes to earthquakes.[/quote] Unfortunately, there are more artificial processes going on than ever which disrupt the natural processes. Forests are the great cleaners on Earth but deforestation is still a large problem; forests aren't growing much either. The Earth has been warmer, and had higher levels of CO2; but, this usually lead to a greener Earth which is now doubtful with the mass resourse use by humanity and population sprawl. If the enviroment couldn't handle the outcome of large geological activity the result was usually a mass extinction. I don't think there is any reason to panic, but there is no time like the present to be mindful about our pollution. Maybe if we spend more money on developing energy rather than killing each other we may someday get somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='ScarletKnight' post='625128' date='Jan 20 2008, 08:56 PM']This is why this planet is doomed. Most people only know how to contribute to the problem.[/quote] The planet will be fine. It's the inhabitants who will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Actium' post='625262' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:23 AM']that's the problem with climate change sources--most are biased because each side has a huge financial stake in the policy (grant money, taxes, etc.) all I have to say is, carbon credits? Follow the money.[/quote] ding ding ding complete agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Fanatical' post='625265' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:26 AM']Unfortunately, there are more artificial processes going on than ever which disrupt the natural processes.[b] Forests are the great cleaners on Earth[/b] but deforestation is still a large problem; forests aren't growing much either. The Earth has been warmer, and had higher levels of CO2; but, this usually lead to a greener Earth which is now doubtful with the mass resourse use by humanity and population sprawl. If the enviroment couldn't handle the outcome of large geological activity the result was usually a mass extinction. I don't think there is any reason to panic, but there is no time like the present to be mindful about our pollution. Maybe if we spend more money on developing energy rather than killing each other we may someday get somewhere.[/quote] actually it's algae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanatical Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 whatever, algae ain't doing much better either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Snake Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 FACT: Long-term, the Earth IS doomed. Whether it's from nuclear war, pollution, or an asteroid impact, something is EVENTUALLY going to render the planet uninhabitable. Our only way to survive is to find a way off this rock and to move the human seed elsewhere where it will survive Earth's devastation. And the way to do that isn't to go back to living like the Amish like most environmentalists want, but instead to exploit the resources we have now with the goal of advancing society. Regressing back to living like animals will only seal our doom. And as Jamie mentioned, if all the global warming proponents are right, even if we implement all the Kyoto standards, China won't, and they'll pass us up and ruin the climate anyway in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Masher Snake' post='625304' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:15 PM']FACT: Long-term, the Earth IS doomed. Whether it's from nuclear war, pollution, or an asteroid impact, something is EVENTUALLY going to render the planet uninhabitable. Our only way to survive is to find a way off this rock and to move the human seed elsewhere where it will survive Earth's devastation. And the way to do that isn't to go back to living like the Amish like most environmentalists want, but instead to exploit the resources we have now with the goal of advancing society. Regressing back to living like animals will only seal our doom. And as Jamie mentioned, if all the global warming proponents are right, even if we implement all the Kyoto standards, [color="#FF0000"]China won't[/color], and they'll pass us up and ruin the climate anyway in the process.[/quote] with the size of their population they will be consuming ALOT more than we are and their oversight as I understand it, is very little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Masher Snake' post='625304' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:15 PM']FACT: Long-term, the Earth IS doomed. Whether it's from nuclear war, pollution, or an asteroid impact, something is EVENTUALLY going to render the planet uninhabitable. Our only way to survive is to find a way off this rock and to move the human seed elsewhere where it will survive Earth's devastation. And the way to do that isn't to go back to living like the Amish like most environmentalists want, but instead to exploit the resources we have now with the goal of advancing society. Regressing back to living like animals will only seal our doom. And as Jamie mentioned, if all the global warming proponents are right, even if we implement all the Kyoto standards, China won't, and they'll pass us up and ruin the climate anyway in the process.[/quote] Yes, I can't wait until the population of the Earth starts living like the Amish. It's going to be freakin' awesome. I love churning butter by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='625313' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:47 PM']Yes, I can't wait until the population of the Earth starts living like the Amish. It's going to be freakin' awesome. I love churning butter by hand.[/quote] I know it was a personal struggle for you to ride in my car on the way to the baltimore game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='625317' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:49 PM']I know it was a personal struggle for you to ride in my car on the way to the baltimore game. [/quote] Only when I have to ride in the back seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='625319' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:53 PM']Only when I have to ride in the back seat.[/quote] ZING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratchFever Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm currently selling carbon offsets. 100% of the proceeds will be donated into a fund to help me buy a Prius. PM me for details. Or just send me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='CatScratchFever' post='625327' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:03 PM']I'm currently selling carbon offsets. 100% of the proceeds will be donated into a fund to help me buy a Prius. PM me for details. Or just send me money.[/quote] You, sir, are a hero. I thank you, and Gaia thanks you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steggyD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I was gonna watch the show, but if I turned my television on, it would've burned some fossil fuels somewhere ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 What's even scarier is what if it's not the gases we put out that is causing it. What if the sun is warming up? That right there scares the living shit out of me. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='Fulcher_33' post='625473' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:15 PM']What's even scarier is what if it's not the gases we put out that is causing it. What if the sun is warming up? That right there scares the living shit out of me. MULLY[/quote] Well, that happening is a foregone conclusion if humanity makes it that long. Our Sun is approximately one-half of the way through it's apporximate 4 billion year lifecycle. Once the Sun becomes a red giant and it's hot outer layers are shedded towards us when the inner core of the Sun collapses after it has exhausted it's hydrogen supply (and by doing so it is attempting to contract it's core so it can burn the byproduct of hydrogen fusion, which is a heavier element, helium), the Earth will be destroyed. Hopefully within the next few centuries we can bond as a people and commit ourselves to the alternative, which is the stuff of sci-fi novels...populating other planets via light-speed travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratchFever Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 The earth is 4 billion years old. The sun probably has another 5 billion before the hydrogen runs out. Then another 8 before the helium is gone. I think we've got time to get the whole intersteller travel thing figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='Bunghole' post='625204' date='Jan 21 2008, 12:21 AM'][i]More[/i] ice melting into a river/stream/waterway in the mountains equals MORE water for the valley below, not less. I agree with you in this: there is no doubt that the Industrial Revolution has perpetrated more carbon emissions into the atmosphere than ever before, due to the burning of fossil fuels. There is no argument there at all. We also know that the Earth and her atmosphere are a self-cleaning mechanism. What we categorically do NOT know is how much our "carbon footprint" is truly affecting the air we breathe or the climate we live in. Earth has demonstrated a remarkable cyclic activity with regards to almost EVERY geologic instance, from volcanoes to earthquakes. It defeinetely remains to be seen what effect we truly have on the environment. I'm inclined to agree that more people equals more pollution...but doesn't the Earth always seem to have a resolution for that? See: the dinosaurs.[/quote] Just a quick reply to this before I read the rest of the thread.....I am not saying it means less based on something off the top of my head, it actually does cause less run off in the long run...don't ask me about the science, I could go do the research, but I am just going off of what I saw on a few of the specials I've seen on NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 What I find most amazing is the blase attitude people have towards the problems that not only the country, but also the world face. We sit in our comfortable homes eating our proccessed foods laughing at any source (right or wrong) that doesn't say what we either believe or want to believe. Even more sickening is the fact that people in America have it REALLY good. You would think they would take advantage of that position and do good in this world with it, like try and help solve some of those problems. Unfortunately, they just sit on their asses doing nothing and laugh or make snyde comments when someone suggests its time to pull the feeding tube out and throw away the recliners that their butt's are outlined in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#22 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 It's really quite a shame that our drought over the course of Summer 2007 wasn't severe enough to worry people about the problems that this planet will be facing over the coming years. Maybe one of those French heat waves that kill 20,000 people would scare some people (or maybe not...Katrina has no effect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steggyD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 What exactly did you do to save us, especially since we don't know what we need saving from yet? Watch the scare tactics. Scare from the right, scare from the left. They'll have us all round up and put in fenced in cities, eating that proccessed food and killing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='steggyD' post='625515' date='Jan 21 2008, 11:08 PM']What exactly did you do to save us, especially since we don't know what we need saving from yet? Watch the scare tactics. Scare from the right, scare from the left. They'll have us all round up and put in fenced in cities, eating that proccessed food and killing each other.[/quote] SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! [img]http://cache.valleywag.com/assets/resources/2007/08/soylent_green.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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