Terry Schiavo

[Guest bengalrick]

i get pissed off everytime i think about this shit, but i found some articles i wanted to post... first off, the police got their guy today:

[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050323/i/r4209066064.jpg[/img]

[url="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050323/ids_photos_ts/r4209066064.jpg"]click here[/url]

here is another report that explains the bias in the media... NOOO!!!!

[url="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050323/ids_photos_ts/r4209066064.jpg"]click here[/url]

[quote]ABC Caught: Schiavo Poll Distorted
by Michelle Malkin
Posted Mar 23, 2005



However you feel about the Terri Schiavo case, one fact is indisputable: The mainstream media (MSM) coverage of the matter has been abysmal.

On a fundamental matter of life and death, the MSM heavyweights have proven themselves utterly incapable of reporting fairly. Take a widely publicized ABC News poll released on Monday that supposedly showed strong public opposition to any Washington intervention in Terri's case. Here is how the spinmasters framed the main poll question:

"As you may know, a woman in Florida named Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage and has been on life support for 15 years. Doctors say she has no consciousness and her condition is irreversible. Her parents and her husband disagree on whether or not she should be kept on life support. In cases like this who do you think should have final say, (the parents) or (the spouse)?"

A follow-up question asked:

"If you were in this condition, would you want to be kept alive, or not?"

[b]The problem is that, contrary to what ABC News told those polled, Terri Schiavo is not on "life support" and has never been on "life support." The loaded phrase evokes images of a comatose patient being artificially sustained by myriad machines and pumps and wires. Terri was on a feeding tube. A feeding tube is not a ventilator. Terri can breathe just fine on her own.[/b]

And as many of her medical caretakers and parents have argued, if given proper rehabilitation, Terri could learn to chew and swallow on her own as well. She is disabled, not dead.

But ABC News did not see fit to inform either the poll takers or its viewers of the truth. Instead, it misled them -- and the result was a poll response that produced -- voila! -- "broad public disapproval" for any government intervention to spare Terri from slowly starving to death. Blogger Ed Morrissey of Captain's Quarters noted: "Either ABC is completely incompetent in conducting research, or they have attempted to fool their viewers and readership with false polling that essentially lies about the case in question. Since when does ABC conduct push polling for euthanasia?"

Imagine how the poll results might have turned out if ABC News had made clear to participants that Terri is not terminally ill. Not in excruciating pain. Capable of saying "Mommy" and "Help me." And of "getting the feeling she's falling" or getting "excited," in her husband's own testimony, when her head is not held properly.

Imagine how the poll results might have turned out if ABC News had informed participants that in a sworn affidavit, registered nurse Carla Sauer Iyer, who worked at the Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Fla., while Terri Schiavo was a patient there, testified: "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that b---h gonna die?'"

Now, if you were in this situation, would you want to be kept alive, or not?

Not to pick on ABC News, but, well, let's. In an attempt to embarrass Rep. Dave Weldon (R.-Fla.) who noted that withdrawing food and water from someone like Schiavo was extremely rare, ABC's Jake Tapper last week featured this counter-quote from Prof. Bill Allen, of the University of Florida College of Medicine:

"Feeding tubes have been removed in the United States for many years, and it's been a common practice. This has happened in many cases, probably a hundred thousand times in this country."

"A hundred thousand times"? There have been a hundred thousand cases of non-terminally ill, non-brain dead individuals slowly starved and forced to die in this country? Tapper demanded no proof from his professor. Instead, he dismissed lawmakers as ignoramuses contradicted by "experts," cited the biased ABC News poll cited above, and tossed it back to Jennings with this slam: "Terri Schiavo and her family deserved better than the way Congress worked this week."

Meanwhile, contradicting the experience of every starved child in Africa and abandoned street animal at your SPCA shelter, the New York Times informs us: "Experts Say Ending Feeding Can Lead to a Gentle Death."

Is it any wonder the credibility of the MSM is withering on the vine?[/quote]

HERE IS A TIMELINE: [url="http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm"]click here[/url]

i find it weird that her husband swore to fight for her for the rest of his life... that is until he got engaged and got his 2 million dollar settlement... since then, no rehabilitation, no brushing her teeth, no nothing...

what do you guys think?

[CatScratchFever]

1. she is not brain dead
2. she is not in a coma
3. a feeding tube is not "extraordinary means", while a breathing tube is
4. she can breathe on her own
5. removing the feeding tube sentences her to a slow, agonizing death by starvation
6. she did not execute a living will; her wishes are heresay
7. if her husband is tired of caring for her, there are less drastic means of ending his commitment to her
8. murderers on death row have more rights and more judicial review options than Schiavo

[BengalBeotch]

[quote]removing the feeding tube sentences her to a slow, agonizing death by starvation[/quote]

THIS IS WHAT TOTALLY PISSES ME OFF!

If they are going to let her die this way they better
at least MAKE HER COMFORTABLE!
Pump her up with morphine or something....it's total
bullshit...if he cared in the least he would give
her parents the option to TRY and help her....

I hope she haunts his ass!

[Jamie_B]

Isnt the only part of her brain that is working the stem? Isnt the frontal part that runs cognative ability essentally dead?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Mar 23 2005, 03:52 PM']Isnt the only part of her brain that is working the stem? Isnt the frontal part that runs cognative ability essentally dead?
[right][post="66558"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

since no one has been able to rehabilitate here, noone really knows... she supposidely can say about 5 words, can follow things w/ her eyes, and seems to try to smile when she (for instance) gets kissed on the head (like the video playing nonstop)... if you ask me, she is disabled... not a vegtable...

[Jason]

Here's another question.

Do we really want the federal government, with, ot without permission of a legal guardian, to be able to order death for someone who does not have a living will?

Do we really want legal guardians to be able to order death for a handicapped dependant?

With no living will, NO ONE should be able to order the death of another person!

And more.

If we wanted to kill death row inmates by dehydration/starvation, the ACLU, and the rest of the left would be screaming their heads off!

You can go to jail for startving a dog to death!

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jason' date='Mar 23 2005, 04:40 PM']Here's another question.

Do we really want the federal government, with, ot without permission of a legal guardian, to be able to order death for someone who does not have a living will?

Do we really want legal guardians to be able to order death for a handicapped dependant?

With no living will, NO ONE should be able to order the death of another person!

And more.

[b]If we wanted to kill death row inmates by dehydration/starvation, the ACLU, and the rest of the left would be screaming their heads off!

You can go to jail for startving a dog to death![/b]
[right][post="66570"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

and they are nowhere to be found right now...

i agree w/ all that you said... if there isn't a living will, there is no proof... word of mouth usually doesn't hold up in court, especially if it involves someone dying...

i thinks its weird how he remembered, about 8 years after the original breakdown, that she said wouldn't want to live like that while watching a law and order... funny thing is, there was no such law and order that was similar to this case...

also terry had broken bones and bruises all over her body when she came in... why the fuck can' t the judges put two and two together??

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

Here's an article about a man who had a similar condition but through the love and care of his family he made a stunning recovery, proving the doctors and experts wrong. [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/03-23-2005/news/wn_report/story/292666p-250557c.html"]Click Here[/url]

[quote]Each feat is a tiny miracle for Joannou's family, who have painstakingly helped him recover from a devastating brain injury nine years ago that left him in what doctors insisted was a "persistent vegetative state" - much like Terri Schiavo.

"They said nothing could be done," recalled Tommy's mother, Rosalie Joannou, 65, of Bethpage, L.I., who, with her husband, eight other children and a home attendant, has cared for Tommy.[/quote]


What they are doing to this woman is horrible and should be stopped. If the family wants to care for this woman let them, the husband should just move on with his life, not see that Terri's life is ended. To starve her to death is cruel and unusual punishment for someone who did nothing wrong. I don't understand why her parents shouldn't be allowed to care for their daughter. Given the problems we have with marriage in this country(divorce, domestic violence,....) how can her husband have the final say so on Terri's life. If her parents are willing to be responsible for her then they should be able to care for their child, it only makes sense. Her husband is a greedy scumbag who will get his come-uppins.

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='Jason' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:40 PM']Here's another question.

Do we really want the federal government, with, ot without permission of a legal guardian, to be able to order death for someone who does not have a living will?

Do we really want legal guardians to be able to order death for a handicapped dependant?

With no living will, NO ONE should be able to order the death of another person!

And more.

If we wanted to kill death row inmates by dehydration/starvation, the ACLU, and the rest of the left would be screaming their heads off!

You can go to jail for startving a dog to death!
[right][post="66570"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
My thoughts exactly. Never decide the fate of another innocent living being. If anyone here feels they should be starved to death, get an attorney and have it written down. But never, ever, ever decide for someone else, that goes for the government, poor husbands, anyone.

[jza10304]

[quote name='Jason' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:40 PM']Do we really want the federal government, with, ot without permission of a legal guardian, to be able to order death for someone who does not have a living will?
[right][post="66570"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

It isn't against the will of her legal guardian which is her husband. I personally think she is brain-dead, but I find it cruel that she has to be starved, however I believe that there is no law to essentially kill a patient in a less painful way. If she is in a persistent vegetative state she cannot think, speak or respond to commands, not aware of her surroundings, though she might move spontaneously and make noises, cry or laugh.

In my opinion the government is stepping over boundaries to prolong this issue anymore than it needs to.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='jza10304' date='Mar 23 2005, 04:02 PM']It isn't against the will of her legal guardian which is her husband.  I personally think she is brain-dead, but I find it cruel that she has to be starved, however I believe that there is no law to essentially kill a patient in a less painful way.  If she is in a persistent vegetative state she cannot think, speak or respond to commands, not aware of her surroundings, though she might move spontaneously and make noises, cry or laugh.

[b]In my opinion the government is stepping over boundaries to prolong this issue anymore than it needs to.[/b]
[right][post="66579"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Why is it that a Governor can give a Death Row inmate his life back...
but the Government it over stepping bounds here ? This woman has committed
no crime...her parents and family want her to live...her husband doesn`t.
I don`t see what the big issue is...he can get a divorce, move on with his life.
He doesn`t have to go against the people that GAVE her life to do so...

[Nati Ice]

she needs to be put back on the feeding tube, and this case needs to re-examined

if she dies now because of starvation it will be a complete travesty

i am suprised that nobody is calling this what it really is, murder, she is a living, breathing human being, and has not chosen to die, who has any right to make that decision for her, kavorkian got into trouble for helping people who wanted to die so they wouldnt have to suffer, this woman many have to suffer, and may not want to die, what is the harm of examining this case further

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

If I were her parents I would feed her anyway, this is murder, imo. Starvation is one of the worst ways to die, just because she can't express the pain doesn't mean she won't feel any. Like many have said her husband should just get a divorce and move on, not see to it that she is dead.

[Jason]

[quote name='jza10304' date='Mar 23 2005, 06:02 PM']It isn't against the will of her legal guardian which is her husband.  I personally think she is brain-dead, but I find it cruel that she has to be starved, however I believe that there is no law to essentially kill a patient in a less painful way.  If she is in a persistent vegetative state she cannot think, speak or respond to commands, not aware of her surroundings, though she might move spontaneously and make noises, cry or laugh.

In my opinion the government is stepping over boundaries to prolong this issue anymore than it needs to.
[right][post="66579"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

But she does respond to her family.

But even WITH consent of a guardian, is it right to kill another person without a living will?

Would it be right for a parent to kill a handicapped child?

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Jason' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:35 PM']But she does respond to her family. 

But even WITH consent of a guardian, is it right to kill another person without a living will?

Would it be right for a parent to kill a handicapped child?
[right][post="66590"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

no, but if you ask george bush it is ok to kill children without the consent from their parents

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Mar 23 2005, 04:37 PM']no, but if you ask george bush it is ok to kill children without the consent from their parents
[right][post="66591"][/post][/right][/quote]




Why even go THERE ?

But since you did...no1 wants their childern to die. But the military
IS voluntary. And the entire U.S. Congress voted to go to war...not just Bush.

[Guest BengalsOwn]

I disagree with everyone in this thread, so I'll just stay out of it

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:39 PM']I disagree with everyone in this thread, so I'll just stay out of it
[right][post="66624"][/post][/right][/quote]


You disagree with people ? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//13.gif[/img]
That`s a shocker.... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]


What`s to disagree about ?
She is on a feeding tube....to end her life you have to starve her.
It`s not like you pull the plug and she stops breathing ...

People go to jail for starving animals...but it`s OK in this case because
her husbad doesn`t want to deal with her any longer ?

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 23 2005, 06:38 PM']

Why even go THERE ? 

But since you did...no1 wants their childern to die. But the military
IS voluntary. And the entire U.S. Congress voted to go to war...not just Bush.
[right][post="66622"][/post][/right][/quote]

noooo, thats not what i'm talking about

while governor of texas he signed a bill into law that allows for doctors to have the final decision regarding whether or not to allow the continued use of life support to keep someone alive if the doctor believes it would be unlikely that the person could pull through or have a complete recovery

example: kid is born prematurely, required life support, doctors didn't think he could pull through, parents wanted to give him a chance to live, doctors said no and pulled the plug, kid = dead, against the legal guardians will

in this instance, bush = douche

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:48 PM']noooo, thats not what i'm talking about 

while governor of texas he signed a bill into law that allows for doctors to have the final decision regarding whether or not to allow the continued use of life support to keep someone alive if the doctor believes it would be unlikely that the person could pull through or have a complete recovery

example: kid is born prematurely, required life support, doctors didn't think he could pull through, parents wanted to give him a chance to live, doctors said no and pulled the plug, kid = dead, against the legal guardians will

in this instance, bush = douche
[right][post="66632"][/post][/right][/quote]


Oh I see. I saw something about that just the other day.
A baby was cut off life support against the mothers wishes.
That`s bullshit IMO !

But she isn`t on life support like that ...she is being fed...

[Nati Ice]

i know, i agree with you

[STRAYCAT]

The husband should move on and let the parents take over,nuff said.

[Homer_Rice]

From the "what-if" history files...

[b]Mysterious Ailment Identified as Polio[/b]
[b]No Cure Available, Victim to be Euthanized[/b]

August 14, 1921 (Campobello Island)

Last week Frank Roosevelt had a spell and fell off his boat while sailing. Two days later, he discovered that his legs were paralyzed and required further medical attention.

Doctors diagnosed his condition as the onset of poliomyelitis. This terrible disease ruins the lives of its victims and, because there is no cure, in accordance with current cultural standards, those stricken down by polio are given the option to be euthanized.

Roosevelt has chosen this option, saying, "I've had a decent run, I have had the fortune to be Secretary of the Navy. With this malady besetting me, I'd prefer to die with dignity. It's not likely that I can continue to be a productive member of society under these conditions."

-30-

[UDUB]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 23 2005, 06:13 PM']Why is it that a Governor can give a Death Row inmate his life back...
but the Government it over stepping bounds here ?  This woman has committed
no crime...her parents and family want her to live...her husband doesn`t.
I don`t see what the big issue is...he can get a divorce, move on with his life.
He doesn`t have to go against the people that GAVE her life to do so...
[right][post="66583"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


No! but her husband by law becomes her guardian, and he has been fighting to have the tubes removed since it was first discovered that she was brain dead ten years ago. She told her husband that she did not want to live in a vegatative state. Period.

People think she's been locked away in some broom closet for the last ten years and all of a sudden it was decided to pull the plug. Thats not the case. Time and time again for the last ten years it has been determined that she is brain dead. All of a sudden the media gets ahold of this story and all of these damn "Johnny Come Lately" so-called experts all of a sudden know whats wrong with her. Bullshit.

The lady has been suffering for ten freaking years, because her family is too damn selfish to let her go. Its been proven that with having only brain stem function people can follow objects, it doesnt mean she even see's them. In essence the lights are barely on, but NOBODY is at home and never will be.

I'm politically a conservative, but what makes me sick is all of my conservative brethern who have time and time again spoken out about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and now all of a sudden HER HUSBAND is being called everything but the anti-christ. Damn! Grow up people and get a freaking clue. Do you honestly think the courts would not have done there due diligence??? They have for the last ten years!! Appeal after appeal has caused her to suffer long enough. Her husband didnt divorce her because he made a promise to her. He won a million bucks in her malpractice case, and if he only wanted money he could have divorced her and walked away. Instead he's spent ALL OF IT to try and fulfill her wishes. Shit!!! Some THIRTY doctors say she's BRAIN DEAD!!! And one says "Duh...Maybe.." and it's "Stop The Presses Boys!! We Got A Live One Here!!"" Bullshit!!

Let the woman die in dignity. Let her go home to heaven if you believe in that, and give her some peace. And STOP using your head for something other than to grow hair on!! Use your brain!! Dont let the media think for you!! Geeze! The saying is true isnt it? "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!!"

[natifanatic]

As for the starving, that is HORSESHIT! Talk about cruel punishment.

The fact of the matter is, she cannot feed herself. The only way to "feed" is through a feeding tube, if that was me or any one of you, I don't want to be living. She is essentially a vegetable. Not totally, because there are some recognition and mumblings, but essentially she cannot do anything on her own. The parents have to basically let go. It's been 15 years, she's never going to be the same, and it has to kill them every time they look at her in that situation.

But now we actually get to the letting go part.....how do you do it? She's not on life support, unless you count a feeding tube. And apparently she is in good health despite no thought process. It's a very difficult situation. And removing the feeding tube is too harsh. So I'm trying to say, I have no clue. Pretty much she should be put out of her misery, but who's to know if she's in misery? And there's really no way of doing it without removing the feeding tube.

Damn, I never really sat and thought about it like that before.......UNIMAGINABLE SITUATION FOR ALL INVOLVED!