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Elflocko

The beginning of the end for Chad

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[quote name='GoBengals' post='645620' date='Mar 23 2008, 10:27 PM']u thin daugherty caused a grown man to half ass the whole season, and act like a total 7 yr old bitch for the last 3 months in the offseason?[/quote]

I think the end for Chad started when they( CJ and Drew) realized that Mike Brown out foxed them into signing a 36 million deal prematurely.Mike saw the expanded salary cap coming and caught Drew sleeping at the switch. Mike saved about 12-14 million . Drew got his comission and Chad got hosed.

As a result Mike again made a smart decision ON PAPER.However,he again has a pissed off player and a morale problem . Mike's got to be the best negotiator in the NFL but doesn't consider the ramifications of being TOO SMART.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645730' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:48 PM']I think the end for Chad started when they( CJ and Drew) realized that Mike Brown out foxed them into signing a 36 million deal prematurely.Mike saw the expanded salary cap coming and caught Drew sleeping at the switch. Mike saved about 12-14 million . Drew got his comission and Chad got hosed.

As a result Mike again made a smart decision ON PAPER.However,he again has a pissed off player and a morale problem . Mike's got to be the best negotiator in the NFL but doesn't consider the ramifications of being TOO SMART.[/quote]
Dude thats bullshit. Blame MFB for just about anything you want, but your reaching here. Drew and Chad ASKED for a new deal. and MFB gave Chad a new deal. A deal that at the time was pretty awesome for Chad.
Chad started all this bitching and complaining as soon as the season ended. I dont think anybody including Rosenhead forsaw the kind of contracts this FA period has produced. We knew we would see bigger contracts yes, but we've seen just plain stupid deals. Justin Smith got what? :huh: Thank You.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645730' date='Mar 24 2008, 11:48 AM']I think the end for Chad started when they( CJ and Drew) realized that Mike Brown out foxed them into signing a 36 million deal prematurely.Mike saw the expanded salary cap coming and caught Drew sleeping at the switch. Mike saved about 12-14 million . Drew got his comission and Chad got hosed.

As a result Mike again made a smart decision ON PAPER.However,he again has a pissed off player and a morale problem . Mike's got to be the best negotiator in the NFL but doesn't consider the ramifications of being TOO SMART.[/quote]


so now its Mike's fault for working out a steal? The problem with Chad's contract isn't mike, its Chad's immaturity about it.


I know the market is the market, but its absolutely assinine what pro athletes think they are "worth".

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[quote name='Legoland' post='645739' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:11 PM']Dude thats bullshit. Blame MFB for just about anything you want, but your reaching here. Drew and Chad ASKED for a new deal. and MFB gave Chad a new deal. A deal that at the time was pretty awesome for Chad.
Chad started all this bitching and complaining as soon as the season ended. I dont think anybody including Rosenhead forsaw the kind of contracts this FA period has produced. We knew we would see bigger contracts yes, but we've seen just plain stupid deals. Justin Smith got what? :huh: Thank You.[/quote]

Mike's position is:I gave you a good deal.What are you bitching about ? We've got a contract.Play. He's right .....legally. Please note that I'm not pushing a new deal for Chad. My feeling is;he made his bed,now sleep in it for your 36 million.

Now,consider Chad's position.He's one of the top 5 WR's in the league.He's signed through the rest of his productive years for probably 12-16 million less than the going rate. He's screwed and as a result wants out. He's following the Dillon model.

Now, you can say that my thesis is BS but as I see it,the root of the problem is the 36 million dollar contract. Mike,as usual,made TO GOOD a deal.It's the stadium deal revisited.Mike out negotiated the county fathers and they sued to break the contract.This is no different.Chad and the county both want to redo the deal.Mike rightfully says no. Of course the result is that the city,county and Chad are pissed.Does Mike care ? Hell no ! It's business not personal to quote Don Corleone.

In the mean time,the team and fans have to put up with this public pissing contest. Why ? Because Mike's too damn good at negotiating.

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='645744' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:27 PM']so now its Mike's fault for working out a steal? The problem with Chad's contract isn't mike, its Chad's immaturity about it.


I know the market is the market, but its absolutely assinine what pro athletes think they are "worth".[/quote]


No argument from me 1181on the quality of the deal from Mike's standpoint..

The only disagreement is that Mike is at fault .If Rosenhaus was so sharp,why didn't he question Mike's generosity when there was four years left on the contract ? The answer imo is obvious.Mike knew about the inflasted coming CAP and more importantly,he knew that Rosenhaus would be collecting a nice commission check and would be bragging about Chad's new deal to prospectuive draftee's.

In business parlance,Mike studied the market and his buyeys representation.It was a perfect negotiation for all except Chad.

You admit it.It was a steal.Mike,as usual was too smart for his opponent. But what kind of steal was it ? Again,we have the franchise in turmoil and the laughing stock of the league.Mike,again has himself trapped with no escape hatch.He's hooked for 8 million in CAP hits and will refuse to trade Chad as a result.Ask yourself.If you were a big time F/A would you join a team with such a reputation ? Would you want to play for a team with a circus atmosphere ? If your contract was about to expire.would you want to stay here ?

Your damn right that Mike made a good deal.He's been making them for 17 years.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645745' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:30 PM']Now,consider Chad's position.He's one of the top 5 WR's in the league.He's signed through the rest of his productive years for probably 12-16 million less than the going rate.[/quote]

Yes but you are also ignoring the two years Chad's been playing and making 5-10 million more than market value.
The market has changed you cant expect MFB to give away money to signed players everytime the market changes do you?
No other team does that. And we all want Mikey to act like a real owner right? Then why do you expect him to act differently in this situation?

I do see the point your trying to make I just dont think you can apply with what happened to the county and what happened with Chad. Mainly because it was Chad and Drew that decided that they needed a new contract right there and then. Not MFB. With the stadium, Mikey went to the county and said give me a new stadium or find yourselves another team. Situations arent even close.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645749' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:46 PM']No argument from me 1181on the quality of the deal from Mike's standpoint..

The only disagreement is that Mike is at fault .If Rosenhaus was so sharp,why didn't he question Mike's generosity when there was four years left on the contract ? The answer imo is obvious.Mike knew about the inflasted coming CAP and more importantly,he knew that Rosenhaus would be collecting a nice commission check and would be bragging about Chad's new deal to prospectuive draftee's.

In business parlance,Mike studied the market and his buyeys representation.It was a perfect negotiation for all except Chad.

You admit it.It was a steal.Mike,as usual was too smart for his opponent. But what kind of steal was it ? Again,we have the franchise in turmoil and the laughing stock of the league.Mike,again has himself trapped with no escape hatch.He's hooked for 8 million in CAP hits and will refuse to trade Chad as a result.Ask yourself.If you were a big time F/A would you join a team with such a reputation ? Would you want to play for a team with a circus atmosphere ? If your contract was about to expire.would you want to stay here ?

Your damn right that Mike made a good deal.He's been making them for 17 years.[/quote]


I just don't see how anyone can believe that logic. You can't even remotely try and claim that the way Chad is acting, or his opinion of his contract, is Mike's fault. Chad and Drew are big boys, they agreed to the deal and need to live with it.

Nor does the deal make Mike look bad and that deal does nothing to hurt his reputation. It makes Drew look stupid.

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='645751' date='Mar 24 2008, 12:52 PM']I just don't see how anyone can believe that logic. You can't even remotely try and claim that the way Chad is acting, or his opinion of his contract, is Mike's fault. Chad and Drew are big boys, they agreed to the deal and need to live with it.

Nor does the deal make Mike look bad and that deal does nothing to hurt his reputation. It makes Drew look stupid.[/quote]

Let's just agree that you and legoland don't agree with me. If you don't see my point,then I've done a poor job of explaining it . Honestly,I don't think that you guys have looked at this from Chad's side but maybe I'm wrong.Let's let it be.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645754' date='Mar 24 2008, 02:01 PM']Let's just agree that you and legoland don't agree with me. If you don't see my point,then I've done a poor job of explaining it . Honestly,I don't think that you guys have looked at this from Chad's side but maybe I'm wrong.Let's let it be.[/quote]


fair enough.



What do you mean from Chad's side though? He wants a new contract because there's more money to be had. Instead of being mad at Mike Brown, he should be kicking himself in the ass for agreeing to the deal.

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[quote name='Bengalmaniac' post='645527' date='Mar 23 2008, 11:48 AM']Get what you can for him and lets move on...I am a diehard Bengals fan not a fan of a single player.
B)[/quote]
agree 100%!!..if he doesn't want to be on our team..piss off!

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='645755' date='Mar 24 2008, 01:03 PM']fair enough.



What do you mean from Chad's side though? He wants a new contract because there's more money to be had. Instead of being mad at Mike Brown, he should be kicking himself in the ass for agreeing to the deal.[/quote]

Instead of being mad at Mike,he should fire Drew Rosenhaus.What the hell does Chad ? They dangle 36 million in front of him and he wet his pants.We all would .Of course after the signing was official,I'll bet that great humanitarian,MB,was smiling all day.

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You know, this is all funny and sad at the same time. To my knowledge from articles and reports over the years Chad has been one of THE hardest working Bengals of all time, from reports of late or all night film study, work outs, and a couple of years ago connecting with Carson. That's the funny part that he is letting "DOC" hurt his feelings like this. Who the hell is Paul Daugherty. A Sports columnist, who the hell cares, he has to create controversy to keep a job. I personally don't like his style, it doesn't matter the sport he's always negative and I rarely read his columns or listen to his talk show. ALWAYS negative . But, Chad has put the Bengals in a bad spot which pisses me off, think about this, Sean Rogers the top DT free agent, the bengals need, HMMM, Chad's unhappy in Cincy, a star on the team, a Pro-Bowler, hmmm, I think I'll pass. So the Bengals fate goes. Chad's feelings are hurt yet, he forgets two contracts ripped up, extended, and more money each time. He's unloved?? It's time Mike Brown to realize it's business, not loyalty that will bring a championship to Cincy. Trade him, he doesn't want to be here, get a STUD DT in return and let's move forward. See ya Chad, it's been fun.

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[quote name='Legoland' post='645750' date='Mar 24 2008, 11:52 AM']Yes but you are also ignoring the two years Chad's been playing and making 5-10 million more than market value.
The market has changed you cant expect MFB to give away money to signed players everytime the market changes do you?
No other team does that. And we all want Mikey to act like a real owner right? Then why do you expect him to act differently in this situation?

I do see the point your trying to make I just dont think you can apply with what happened to the county and what happened with Chad. Mainly because it was Chad and Drew that decided that they needed a new contract right there and then. Not MFB. With the stadium, Mikey went to the county and said give me a new stadium or find yourselves another team. Situations arent even close.[/quote]
The situation sort of reminds me of the natural gas/oil market. I don't remember too much about it other than a lot of times when people discover minerals in their land, and the big companies sweep in and work out a deal to market it and develop it, they lock them into long-term deals. At the time of the signing, the landowner thinks they are making a lot of money. Over time, the market changes and next thing they know they are getting waaayy below market value. The big companies have them locked in with that contract, all because the landowner thought only in the short-term and didn't think of changing circumstances.

That is what Chad did, and really he should be blaming Rosenhaus.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='645754' date='Mar 24 2008, 01:01 PM']Let's just agree that you and legoland don't agree with me. If you don't see my point,then I've done a poor job of explaining it . Honestly,I don't think that you guys have looked at this from Chad's side but maybe I'm wrong.Let's let it be.[/quote]


Nah, you are off base on this because you insist on one side getting screwed and the other side having to have WON.

Drew Rosenhaus - Super Agent doesn't have a clue about the current/future economic climate in the industry in which he works? BULLSHIT!

Chad Johnson collecting whatever millions he has in his 20s somehow got screwed? BULLSHIT!

Just an all around failure to recognize the workings of the NFL. The counterpoint to your entire theory can be disputed with Levi Jones.

Because of circumstance that has ended up being a Great deal for Levi and poor deal for the bengals. There is an amount of risk that you don't account for and use known results to make sweeping judgements.

Thus your theory amounts to a pile of crap.

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