Jamie_B Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675365' date='Jun 25 2008, 03:55 PM']i wish he were as visual and aggressive with the people that have partial birth abortions then... Instead, he calls them goo until apparently they turn into babies around the third trimester... as you can probably see, I don't see much of a distinction...[/quote] I dont either myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='SINcinnati513' post='675148' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:14 PM']I understand that you can define these any way you' d like. But I think you know where I'm coming whereas I know where you are. Our imagination is very powerful and very convincing. But convincing yourself that praying works does not mean it works. Convincing yourself that you will die and go to heaven does not mean there is a heaven.[/quote] All right Bengal Backer . . . once again . . . it's not convicing myself, or imagination, or anything like that. Anyone who is an athesit or agnostic, regardless of age has no Idea where I am . . . NOT A SINGLE ONE. I can understand the disdain for christianity. Organized Religion of any flavor I find to be most unsavory. It gets powerful, the message is misunderstood or corrupted, and then poof you got all kinds of crap going on. But being me i can also see the great merits of it. Like who in the hell would RAMBO take down a river to die without having the luxory of christian missionaries. Your responding to a topic of this nature, this is a natural thing . . SO why don't you look into something else? Autobiography of a Yogi is very good . . . most of it anyway . . . bout 7 bucks at your local barnes and noble. I picked it up on the Recomendation of Russel Simmons . . . he said it was good. . . I'd have to agree. and How to Practice. by H.H. The Dalai Lama maybe later on down the road yeah? And then when you get schooled up, and come on back around full circle . . . I won't have to establish a framework for everything that I type . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='675195' date='Jun 25 2008, 09:37 AM']The "eye roll" isn't accompanying any military invasion, or whatever,[/quote] [b]So now the invasion and occupation of Iraq is a "Whatever" ... do you dispute that this invasion and occupation has occured and is still going on. Even Faux News acknowledges that.[/b] [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='675195' date='Jun 25 2008, 09:37 AM']or "war mongering" president.[/quote] [b]So invading and occupying 2 nations in the first 3 years is not enough for such a title ... how many countries does a leader need to invade and occupy ? [/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675279' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:20 PM']wow, you are one heartless piece of shit sometimes[/quote] [b]Why thank you sweetie. [/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675279' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:20 PM']I haven't talked about it yet on here, but my wife is 6 1/2 months pregnant[/quote] [b]Congrats. I'll hope for his sake that by the time he/she is 18 ... he/she won't be sent to Whatthefuckistan for Exxon. [/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675279' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:20 PM']anyone that can feel and see the baby kicking my wifes stomach constantly, is a fucking retard... seriously...[/quote] [b]Um ... I'll assume this is a typo .... that or your wife teaches Special Ed.[/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675279' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:20 PM']is that some goo that is kicking in my wifes stomach or a life?[/quote] [b]At 6 1/2 months it obviously isn't. Hell I was born at 7 1/2. My position on abortion has always been consistent. I don't support abortion at all. I support fetal extraction. If at the of removal it is an independent existing being with the physiological components to sustain life independent of the mother - then of course it is a human life and thus can not be harmed. I don't support crushing the head, sucking the brains, or any of that shit. Simply remove it. If it is a clump of 3 week old pussy goo - then it's not a baby. If it is a 6 1/2 month old infant with developed organs to sustian life outside the womb --- then it is far enough along in the process to be considered INDEPENDENT life. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [b][color="#800080"]Alright [size=3]Rick[/size] now answer these questions:[/color] 1) If 2 years from now your wife is violently raped at knife point and thus gets pregnant from it ... would you encourage her to carry the baby to term and raise it as the father ? Would you support her having an abortion ? 2) What if the doctor told you and your wife that (heaven forbid) your baby which is 6 1/2 months old if carried to term would present a 75 % chance of killing your wife. Would you support her having an abortion or risk her having it ? What about 50 % ? 25 % ? 3) Do you think there is ever a justification for an abortion ? Dad rapes his daughter ? Definite death of the mother if delivered etc? 4) As a "libertarian" how do you make the argument that the govt can't control your guns, or tax your income ... but can have control over your wifes uterus? Doesn't sound very Libertine. "Big Brother in the stirrups" [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='The Scales' post='675457' date='Jun 26 2008, 12:19 AM']All right Bengal Backer . . . once again . . . it's not convicing myself, or imagination, or anything like that.[/quote] Me? The only thing I said in this thread was a response to Jamie, saying that Bill Maher is the same way about politics as he is about religion, just that Jamie agrees with his politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINcinnati513 Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='The Scales' post='675457' date='Jun 26 2008, 12:19 AM']All right Bengal Backer . . . once again . . . it's not convicing myself, or imagination, or anything like that. Anyone who is an athesit or agnostic, regardless of age has no Idea where I am . . . NOT A SINGLE ONE. I can understand the disdain for christianity. Organized Religion of any flavor I find to be most unsavory. It gets powerful, the message is misunderstood or corrupted, and then poof you got all kinds of crap going on. But being me i can also see the great merits of it. Like who in the hell would RAMBO take down a river to die without having the luxory of christian missionaries. Your responding to a topic of this nature, this is a natural thing . . SO why don't you look into something else? Autobiography of a Yogi is very good . . . most of it anyway . . . bout 7 bucks at your local barnes and noble. I picked it up on the Recomendation of Russel Simmons . . . he said it was good. . . I'd have to agree. and How to Practice. by H.H. The Dalai Lama maybe later on down the road yeah? And then when you get schooled up, and come on back around full circle . . . I won't have to establish a framework for everything that I type . . .[/quote] I'm still having a really hard time trying to understand what you're trying to explain here. I'll check out your books. Reading never hurt anybody. I'm still fairly new to being atheist. I've read The God Delusion by Dawkins and God is Not Great by Hitchens. They were both very clear and informative. These books you speak of, are they fiction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='674923' date='Jun 23 2008, 03:59 PM'][/quote] Just for context, this was Bill Maher's comments following [u][b]Hillary's[/b][/u] accusations of elitism against Obama. Funny how that's just cause for a slam against Bush and Republicans, isn't it? :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='675464' date='Jun 26 2008, 12:17 AM'][b]Congrats.[/quote] thanks [quote][b]At 6 1/2 months it obviously isn't. Hell I was born at 7 1/2. My position on abortion has always been consistent. I don't support abortion at all. I support fetal extraction. If at the of removal it is an independent existing being with the physiological components to sustain life independent of the mother - then of course it is a human life and thus can not be harmed. I don't support crushing the head, sucking the brains, or any of that shit. Simply remove it. If it is a clump of 3 week old pussy goo - then it's not a baby. If it is a 6 1/2 month old infant with developed organs to sustian life outside the womb --- then it is far enough along in the process to be considered INDEPENDENT life. [/b][/quote] A child is not independant of the mother even after it is born at full term... The human baby is the most dependant of its mother of any mammal... Why do you have to use such vile words to make your points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='675465' date='Jun 26 2008, 12:26 AM'][b][color="#800080"]Alright [size=3]Rick[/size] now answer these questions:[/color] 1) If 2 years from now your wife is violently raped at knife point and thus gets pregnant from it ... would you encourage her to carry the baby to term and raise it as the father ? Would you support her having an abortion ?[/quote] I'm glad you asked, b/c these points are not made enough, and my views may be different than you assume... my main beef is with people that don't think they are ready, or don't have the money, etc. and then has an abortion... Those people are worthless in my eyes... For the question at hand, I have had this conversation with my wife... i would support whatever she would want to do, in which she would have an abortion in this case... [quote]2) What if the doctor told you and your wife that (heaven forbid) your baby which is 6 1/2 months old if carried to term would present a 75 % chance of killing your wife. Would you support her having an abortion or risk her having it ? What about 50 % ? 25 % ?[/quote] I would spit in the doctors face and tell them that they should have figured it out earlier... Then I would persuade my wife to have an abortion at any of those percentages, and it would be the hardest thing I ever had to do... [quote]3) Do you think there is ever a justification for an abortion ? Dad rapes his daughter ? Definite death of the mother if delivered etc?[/quote] As I said above, yes I think that if the mother is in danger, or if the pregnancy is caused by rape... I would not include disease to the child in there though... [quote]4) As a "libertarian" how do you make the argument that the govt can't control your guns, or tax your income ... but can have control over your wifes uterus? Doesn't sound very Libertine. "Big Brother in the stirrups" [/b][/quote] I made an uneducated guess about your position on late term abortion... you did the same with my position on exceptions to my views on abortion... we are now even... As far as your overall point on this though, I believe that abortion is murder... i am not mixing words, I see it as killing a living baby.. So I don't think that comparing murder to gun rights or taxes is valid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675563' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:02 PM']thanks[/quote] [b]Your welcome. [/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675563' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:02 PM']A child is not independant of the mother even after it is born at full term[/quote] [b]Hence why I used physiologically independent (no longer dependent on the mother's lungs, organs, etc.[/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675563' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:02 PM']Why do you have to use such vile words to make your points?[/quote] [b]That's my style. As the late Carlin said: [i]"It adds spice to my stew"[/i][/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675565' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:07 PM']I would not include disease to the child in there though...[/quote] [b]So you are saying that if a mother finds out at 4 months that the baby will be born with severe phyiscal deformities or mental handicaps that she doesn't have the right to "unplug" that potential baby from fully forming in her own body ? Does a woman not have control of her own uterus in your opinion to remove whatever she wants from it at any time she desires (my view) ? Just as I believe a person should be able to remove a lung, kidney, etc to their body ... I also believe that a person should legally be able to remove a developing form of life that is relying on their organs to grow and develop ? To not acknowledge this in my mind implies that the government at the time of conception then gains "legal jurisdiction" over a woman's uterus ... which to me is wrong. [/b] [quote name='bengalrick' post='675565' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:07 PM']I believe that abortion is murder... i am not mixing words, I see it as killing a living baby[/quote] [b]I don't agree with this view. Simply removing a fetus/baby to me is not murder. If you remove it and it is not fully developed then it was "not yet" a life. Obviously in my view any kind of "harm" brought to the baby is wrong --- I simply believe in removal solely. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='SINcinnati513' post='675474' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:15 AM']I'm still having a really hard time trying to understand what you're trying to explain here. I'll check out your books. Reading never hurt anybody. [b]How old are You? Einstein started out forced into christianity, segwayed into athesism, and ended up being spiritual. Yes this stuff is difficult to explain and understand . . . for gods sake . . . dayum . . . Understanding this, the difficulty in explaining this kind of thing . . . I can see why the Buddha demured when asked questions regarding god, and existence and so forth He probably discussed these metaphysical things with his close attendants . . . but the company line would be... "I know nothing of the mysteries of God (which of course he did, but for the sake of teaching the general people he'd say . . . ) "I know nothing of the mysteries of God, but I do know of the suffering of man." When you start talking about things unseen, and not intially apparent people think your nuts, they start doing the little circle around the ear, and making funny faces, and going ko ko ko ko . . . so out in public I tow the line, here I can be a little more open It's tough sledding, no doubt. Thats why all the stories and myths, and parables and so on . . . the Buddhist Cannon is GINORMOUS . . . a monstrosity . . . written by monks with lots of time on thier hands . . . the buddha did not write any of it . . . his message was spoken . . . passed from teacher to student . . . he taught as he did, because everyone is different, so one thing said to one person may snap them out of it LIKE THAT, and the same thing said to another person would fly on by and vanish with no effect . . . so contradictions may show up in scripture and your like WTF? Don't dismiss the scripture...keep pushing and you will get through. Most people give up...they note a contradiction and they are all "Well joe Blow Preacher man told me GOD wrote this book." BOOOOOOO! Integrity is questioned . . . absurdity is notated . . . Or . . . Like Shunyata, the Concept of Emptiness in Buddhism. A lot of people abandon Buddhism right here, it's a tough concept, and easy to misunderstand . . . I almost totally dismissed Buddhism right at this point . . . I was like THIS IS DUMB. Don't give in, put things aside for a bit if you must, but don't give up. [/b] I'm still fairly new to being atheist. I've read The God Delusion by Dawkins and God is Not Great by Hitchens. They were both very clear and informative. [b]More like "The Self Delusion" by Dawkins, and I can't figure out God with my puny brain so he sucks, and now I'll write a little ditty so Christains will buy it up to tear it apart while I laugh all the way to the bank. . . . by Hitchens. Now I can totally understand how one would perhaps be exposed to Chrstianity, and a Young age and shun it later in life. On the surface a lot of it is absurd . . . yes I know . . . and there's the whole guilt factor thing . . . shoot . . . with christ on the cross and all that . . . and the conception of the Big Boss, and the world done up in 7 days, and he's got a nice beard, and he made lucifer, and he fell down, and adam and eve . . . yes all this taken literaly is fucking kooky . . . but if you look at it as a story, as metaphor, as archetype, look between the layers as it were and find the threads, and do the same with other religions, and using those threads you will find that they all weave together to fashion the same marvelous truth[/b] These books you speak of, are they fiction? [b]Ha! Well, some may say that AutoBiography of a Yogi is Fiction, but I don't, and neither would russell simmons. The first half is really good, it tapers off here and there . . . but hey it takes place in and around Bengal, they got tigers, and snakes and adventure, naked sadhu's, interesting abliities, faith, and non-belivers. Love, Devotion, and Charm. How to practice is nonfiction . . . his holiness (The Dalai Lama) lays down from start to finish the hows and whys of buddhist practice from a to z for a western audience, and even gets into a little tantra. just by reading these two books you will accrue good favorable karma, or merit as them crazy buddhists say...and, you can multiply the Favor (if you will) by setting your mind to OPEN. [/b][/quote] For ease, accessibility, and the essence of Buddhism you would want to look at The DhammaPada. With a commentary Not nessicarily for ease, but for the essence of the hindooism it's the Bhagavad Gita. With a good commentary. For the essence of Christianity or the Abrahamic religion I'd look at the sermon on the mount. These are the beginings of wisdom . . . meditation gives force to wisdom . . . ethics allows for development in meditation. ETHICS+MEDITATIVE CONCENTRATION+ WISDOM = Enlightenment this is the cookie cutter way that works . . . but it is not the only way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='675570' date='Jun 26 2008, 12:39 PM'][b]So you are saying that if a mother finds out at 4 months that the baby will be born with severe phyiscal deformities or mental handicaps that she doesn't have the right to "unplug" that potential baby from fully forming in her own body ? Does a woman not have control of her own uterus in your opinion to remove whatever she wants from it at any time she desires (my view) ?[/quote] I would be willing to hear arguements from this point of view to further decide, but I don't think I would bend too far on this... I don't have the same point of view as you do, as far as the woman having control over their bodies... if they could "get rid" of the baby naturally, that would be one thing... to use medicine to do it though, is not right in my eyes... [quote]Just as I believe a person should be able to remove a lung, kidney, etc to their body ... I also believe that a person should legally be able to remove a developing form of life that is relying on their organs to grow and develop ? To not acknowledge this in my mind implies that the government at the time of conception then gains "legal jurisdiction" over a woman's uterus ... which to me is wrong. [/b][/quote] Hell no i disagree with this... The lung or kidney is an organ and not an independantly living organism, nor will it ever be... Again, to have control over her uterius only includes natural occurances of this... It isn't necessarily fair that the woman doesn't have the control over getting pregnent in the first place, but life isn't fair... [quote][b]I don't agree with this view. Simply removing a fetus/baby to me is not murder. If you remove it and it is not fully developed then it was "not yet" a life. Obviously in my view any kind of "harm" brought to the baby is wrong --- I simply believe in removal solely. [/b][/quote] It is a life... i am not going to waste my breath b/c you will not be changing your mind on this, but I feel that this is taking a life that would be born and live fine as long as they are not terminated by medicines or machines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675575' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:08 PM']as long as they are not terminated by medicines or machines...[/quote] [b]What about a law that states that a woman must "eat" while pregnant. If she simply stopped eating for a few days ... that could kill the fetus/baby. My point being that once you start exerting control over the woman's uterus (effectively saying that the government controls its contents) then all sorts of restrictions could be made up. A rule that says pregnant women can't smoke ... get stressed to cause miscarriage ... or fall down the stairs while pregnant. etc [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='675578' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:12 PM'][b]What about a law that states that a woman must "eat" while pregnant. If she simply stopped eating for a few days ... that could kill the fetus/baby. My point being that once you start exerting control over the woman's uterus (effectively saying that the government controls its contents) then all sorts of restrictions could be made up. A rule that says pregnant women can't smoke ... get stressed to cause miscarriage ... or fall down the stairs while pregnant. etc [/b][/quote] If you call that natural... It would not be against the law, but I would think that mother would have some serious moral issues... only my opinion though, and that is something she would have to do with in whatever religious background she has... I agree that it could be a slippery slope, but I think that I have a reasonable take on abortion, that there are exceptions but it shouldn't be allowed for just anything... There shouldn't be rules for any of the above, including smoking... Again, my main problem is those that are using abortions as a form of birth control... I also believe though, that this should be a state issue and not a federal law forcing all states into allowing it... And as long as the federal law is present, it will be a HUGE issue as far as socialized medicine, b/c then all Americans will literally be paying for those abortions which will leave a sour taste on most of our mouths... Not that that would solve socialized medicines problems, it is one of many hurdles imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675580' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:22 PM']If you call that natural... It would not be against the law, but I would think that mother would have some serious moral issues... only my opinion though, and that is something she would have to do with in whatever religious background she has... I agree that it could be a slippery slope, but I think that I have a reasonable take on abortion, that there are exceptions but it shouldn't be allowed for just anything... There shouldn't be rules for any of the above, including smoking... Again, my main problem is those that are using abortions as a form of birth control... I also believe though, that this should be a state issue and not a federal law forcing all states into allowing it... And as long as the federal law is present, it will be a HUGE issue as far as socialized medicine, b/c then all Americans will literally be paying for those abortions which will leave a sour taste on most of our mouths... Not that that would solve socialized medicines problems, it is one of many hurdles imo...[/quote] So if a woman gets pregnant in OH, and Ky has different laws allowing it....? It's a federal issue imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='675581' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:25 PM']So if a woman gets pregnant in OH, and Ky has different laws allowing it....? It's a federal issue imo.[/quote] It would be where you are a resident... Abortion wouldn't even be an issue if it were a state issue imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675585' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:32 PM']It would be where you are a resident...[/quote] Still disagree, you would have people moving to states for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='675586' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:34 PM']Still disagree, you would have people moving to states for that purpose.[/quote] why is that a problem? Abortion wouldn't even be an issue if it were a state issue imo... ^^^ added to end of last post, but I doubt you saw it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I think the woman should be allowed to make her own choice, and not have to feel guilty about it one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='675578' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:12 PM'][b]What about a law that states that a woman must "eat" while pregnant. If she simply stopped eating for a few days ... that could kill the fetus/baby. My point being that once you start exerting control over the woman's uterus (effectively saying that the government controls its contents) then all sorts of restrictions could be made up. A rule that says pregnant women can't smoke ... get stressed to cause miscarriage ... or fall down the stairs while pregnant. etc [/b][/quote] My wife and I have 4 kids... actually, the female body is an amazing "machine" (and I don't mean in those terms sickos!!) which in this instance her body would actually starve itself to nourish the fetus... she'd have to almost starve herself to death to kill the fetus. Yes, at some point it would kill the fetus but it would be "more than a few days". and, I think a woman that is pregnant shouldn't be able to smoke - I wouldn't want it regulated just my opinion of the situation... funny - every woman I know wife, sisters, mom, grandmother, etc. all feel the same way. Last I looked she made the decision to lay down didn't she? Live with the results. In the event that the baby will be malformed / incest / rape I have no issue with abortion under those cases. The first you're actually being merciful to the child and it places huge undue limitations on the whole family (my wife drives a school bus for just such kids that have to go to school everyday... basically it is a free sitting service just to give the parents a break). As for incest / rape - the woman didn't make the decision in those instances. I guess if she wants to fall down the stairs intentionally to have an abortion go for it. Hopefully, it is successful and hopefully she hits her head at the bottom... As for placing restrictions "on a mother's uterus" regarding the living being inside her is a far cry from the types of things your imaging as grounds for not limiting abortion. But, to each his own I suppose. As Rick said, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. BJ - do you have any kids? And, are you grad school? Last I remember I thought you were still in college in Florida somewhere - just wasn't sure of the latest. Reason I ask is life's events change people's opinions / views of various subjects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='bengalrick' post='675587' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:34 PM']why is that a problem? Abortion wouldn't even be an issue if it were a state issue imo... ^^^ added to end of last post, but I doubt you saw it...[/quote] Its just a slippery sloap, allow it in one people will either move there or the carpet baggers will move where its not and get it allowed in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='The Scales' post='675590' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:37 PM']I think the woman should be allowed to make her own choice, and not have to feel guilty about it one way or another.[/quote] They usually do however. There are studies that show that there is a certin amount of guilt afterwords, and thats not speaking reguading socital guilt but guilt they have placed upon themselves. For me I wish noone would ever be so caviler with life (to include sending our boys to war), but I know thats not the case. If nothing else I would like required education programs that show exactly what is happening/what they are doing, before it is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='675596' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:43 PM']They usually do however. There are studies that show that there is a certin amount of guilt afterwords, and thats not speaking reguading socital guilt but guilt they have placed upon themselves. For me I wish noone would ever be so caviler with life (to include sending our boys to war), but I know thats not the case. If nothing else I would like required education programs that show exactly what is happening/what they are doing, before it is allowed.[/quote] Jamie... good post. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='675594' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:40 PM']Its just a slippery sloap, allow it in one people will either move there or the carpet baggers will move where its not and get it allowed in another.[/quote] I still don't see what the problem with this is... It is the same with those that are hunters looking for lax gun laws... Some people move to places b/c of lower taxes... Some move to places because they can marry their same sex partner... I see no problem w/ leaving a highly debatable practice like abortion to be decided by states and let the pieces fall where they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Get a few people's takes on the flipside of the argument... For those that feel it would regulate a woman's uterus and that is wrong - lets assume the woman wants to keep the baby and the boyfriend or husband doesn't. Should the men have to pay child support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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