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Simulated NCAA Football tournament


globetrotter

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We recently had a discussion about a College Football Playoff system. I am of the belief that only one that includes the champion from all 11 conferences will be fair. I have laid it out as follows and will soon simulate it using NCAA 2008 football (I know its not a great way to do it but it is the best way.)

The Bracket is as follows....1-11 are the conference winners in order of AP ranking and then record. 12-16 are at larges ranked in order of the AP ranking. Win your conference you are in. Win more games and you play a worse team.

I thought it might be interesting to make a contest on here and have people fill out a bracket......Go-Bengals can decide that if he wants but here is a bracket I will be going at.....I will highlight each game as it is done...

1 OSU (Big Ten, #1)
16 Arizona State (At Large, #12)

8 BYU (Mountain West, #19)
9 UCF (CUSA, NR, 10-3)

5 USC (Pac-10, #6)
12 Georgia (At Large, #4)

4 Va Tech (ACC, #5)
13 Missouri (At Large, #7)

3 Oklahoma (Big 12, #3)
14 Kansas (At Large, #8)

6 Hawaii (WAC, #10)
11 Florida Atlantic (Sun Belt, NR, 7-5)

7 West Virginia (Big East, #11)
10 Central Michigan (MAC, NR, 8-5)

2 LSU (SEC, #2)
15 Florida (At Large, #9)
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='674928' date='Jun 23 2008, 03:21 PM']Does this really belong in the main forum?

Edit: Sorry didnt read the sub-label, ill move it later then.[/quote]

NP, sorry for popping it here but I think that some people might be interested but never go to a more appropriate forum....(like I dont)
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People would BITCH even more about this system than the way it is. WAY more! Its rediculous to have Central Michigan ranked at 10 when all 12-16 "at large" bids would literally slaughter them. Not to mention all the teams that would cry about being left out. Then what... instead of all the bowl games is this it, or do you deny all the college atheletes potentially there last game ever because there are no bowls. Florida atlantic is in at 11 and Michigan, or Wisconsin, or Iowa, ND, or on and on get nothing because of a shity tournament. (yes I say keep the system as it is) Business and money says to change it is retarded.
The current system will never change. If you wish your favorite team a chance at a title, well they should try not to lose and they might get the chance to play for it.

Wait is this a game or something...I'm in. lol
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[quote name='WhoDeyThink' post='674949' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:15 PM']People would BITCH even more about this system than the way it is. WAY more! Its rediculous to have Central Michigan ranked at 10 when all 12-16 "at large" bids would literally slaughter them. Not to mention all the teams that would cry about being left out. Then what... instead of all the bowl games is this it, or do you deny all the college atheletes potentially there last game ever because there are no bowls. Florida atlantic is in at 11 and Michigan, or Wisconsin, or Iowa, ND, or on and on get nothing because of a shity tournament. (yes I say keep the system as it is) Business and money says to change it is retarded.
The current system will never change. If you wish your favorite team a chance at a title, well they should try not to lose and they might get the chance to play for it.[/quote]

Hawaii and Boise State would beg to differ.

The BCS as it is now is Illegal.

As far as the Bowls, my plan would be to have them all still. After all only 2 teams play the extra 4 weeks.
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[quote name='globetrotter' post='674974' date='Jun 23 2008, 11:44 PM'][b]Hawaii [/b]and Boise State would beg to differ.

The BCS as it is now is Illegal.

As far as the Bowls, my plan would be to have them all still. After all only 2 teams play the extra 4 weeks.[/quote]
Why would they? They got their asses kicked by Georgia... Hell it was over by halftime. You could see they were clearly outclassed. Now, if you're argument is all around money then yes - they got their conference the 10 million or so for playing in the Sugar Bowl.


Boise State is the only team that makes any argument at all because they pulled of the miraculous statue of liberty and beat Oklahoma...
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='674986' date='Jun 24 2008, 06:46 AM']Why would they? They got their asses kicked by Georgia... Hell it was over by halftime. You could see they were clearly outclassed. Now, if you're argument is all around money then yes - they got their conference the 10 million or so for playing in the Sugar Bowl.


Boise State is the only team that makes any argument at all because they pulled of the miraculous statue of liberty and beat Oklahoma...[/quote]


When a non BCS team makes a BCS bowl the money is not split only by that conference. It is split through all of the BCS teams. Try building a program with that....
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[quote name='globetrotter' post='674974' date='Jun 23 2008, 10:44 PM']Hawaii and Boise State would beg to differ.

[b]The BCS as it is now is Illegal. [/b]

As far as the Bowls, my plan would be to have them all still. After all only 2 teams play the extra 4 weeks.[/quote]



:lol: Exactly what law is it breaking?

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[quote name='globetrotter' post='674987' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:06 AM']When a non BCS team makes a BCS bowl the money is not split only by that conference. It is split through all of the BCS teams. Try building a program with that....[/quote]

You're losing me - are you arguing from a competitive standpoint or are you arguing from a "monopoly" monetary standpoint. Because in one statement you throw hawaii and Boise State out there as "beg to differs" to a post stating facts - that the vast majority of these cases where a non-BCS school gets a slot would get hammered by a 2nd or 3rd tier (at least) BCS conference school...

Then when I dispute at least half that argument (ie Hawaii) you start discussing monetary concerns and what happens... if you really want to bitch start bitching about Notre Dame... they get the best of both worlds.

They're not competitive anymore, at least NC-wise, but as long as they're in the top 12 you can guarantee yourself that they'll get a BCS bowl and because they're independent they get to keep all $10 to 14 million (that other BCS conference schools have to share equally with conference schools and conference office).

Just don't know which side of the argument you're taking as it appears you're fighting from two positions...
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='674994' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:58 AM']You're losing me - are you arguing from a competitive standpoint or are you arguing from a "monopoly" monetary standpoint. Because in one statement you throw hawaii and Boise State out there as "beg to differs" to a post stating facts - that the vast majority of these cases where a non-BCS school gets a slot would get hammered by a 2nd or 3rd tier (at least) BCS conference school...

Then when I dispute at least half that argument (ie Hawaii) you start discussing monetary concerns and what happens... if you really want to bitch start bitching about Notre Dame... they get the best of both worlds.

They're not competitive anymore, at least NC-wise, but as long as they're in the top 12 you can guarantee yourself that they'll get a BCS bowl and because they're independent they get to keep all $10 to 14 million (that other BCS conference schools have to share equally with conference schools and conference office).

Just don't know which side of the argument you're taking as it appears you're fighting from two positions...[/quote]

You said that if a team wants a chance at the National Championship they just need to go undefeated. That's not true at all. I believe Auburn was undefeated 2 or 3 years ago and did not get a chance.

I was just pointing out money wise that unlike the BCS conferences the conference does not get that money.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='674991' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:45 AM']:lol: Exactly what law is it breaking?[/quote]

It gives potential automatic bids to only half of its members. Try doing that in any other aspect of business....just would not work. Antitrust.

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[quote name='globetrotter' post='674996' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:07 AM']It gives potential automatic bids to only half of its members. Try doing that in any other aspect of business....just would not work. Antitrust.[/quote]


so again, exactly what law is it breaking?


The NCAA Tournament doesn't let nearly half of its members play either. I guess they're illegal too. :lol:

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[quote name='globetrotter' post='674995' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:05 AM'][b]You said that if a team wants a chance at the National Championship they just need to go undefeated.[/b] That's not true at all. I believe Auburn was undefeated 2 or 3 years ago and did not get a chance.

I was just pointing out money wise that unlike the BCS conferences the conference does not get that money.[/quote]

When did I say that? You're best chance is to go undefeated - but that doesn't guarantee anything. The biggest gripe anyone should have is the preseason rankings... if you start out high you're at a distinct advantage over the others. There shouldn't be any rankings until about the middle of October when all teams have about 6-7 games under their belts and you have a better picture - not perfect, but better.


I'm all for a playoff system - but only legitimately need about 8, at most. And, what does this "simulation" do? Or, is everyone here arguing a legitimate topic when in actuality you're just wanting to have some fun with a "pick 'em"?
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='674997' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:09 AM']so again, exactly what law is it breaking?


The NCAA Tournament doesn't let nearly half of its members play either. I guess they're illegal too. :lol:[/quote]

Every team in the NCAA can participate in the NCAA tournament by winning their conference.

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='674999' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:13 AM']When did I say that? You're best chance is to go undefeated - but that doesn't guarantee anything. The biggest gripe anyone should have is the preseason rankings... if you start out high you're at a distinct advantage over the others. There shouldn't be any rankings until about the middle of October when all teams have about 6-7 games under their belts and you have a better picture - not perfect, but better.


I'm all for a playoff system - but only legitimately need about 8, at most. And, what does this "simulation" do? Or, is everyone here arguing a legitimate topic when in actuality you're just wanting to have some fun with a "pick 'em"?[/quote]

Sorry I was responding to someone else with the initial post and got crossed.

8 works better then 16 but you have to include all 11 conferences to be fair. Preseason rankings and the coaches poll are the biggest shams in college football. On top of that teams playing 7-8 home games.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='675002' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:34 AM']you still didn't answer the question at hand...[/quote]

You dont see the obvious difference between the NCAA in Basketball and Football. You win your conference in the NCAA and you compete in the tournament for the National Championship and share in the monies. You win your conference in the BCS in football and you play in a meaningless bowl game that may actually lose you money and don't share in the monies.
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[quote name='globetrotter' post='675005' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:36 AM']You dont see the obvious difference between the NCAA in Basketball and Football. You win your conference in the NCAA and you compete in the tournament for the National Championship and share in the monies. You win your conference in the BCS in football and you play in a meaningless bowl game that may actually lose you money and don't share in the monies.[/quote]


yes I see the difference, poor example on my part.


Still doesn't change the fact that the current system is not breaking any laws as you want to claim.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='675006' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:41 AM']yes I see the difference, poor example on my part.


Still doesn't change the fact that the current system is not breaking any laws as you want to claim.[/quote]

6 conferences automatically get a certain amount of money every year. 5 others don't get to share in that money automatically. All are a part of the NCAA. Monopoly...
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The BCS system is a joke, but this proposal is just as bad. The method of seeding is ridiculous.

What we need is the top 8 teams chosen and seeded by computer polls. You would still have arguments from a few teams that get left out, but if the human element is taken out of the selection process no one could cry about getting cheated by an unfair bias of any sort.
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[quote name='fredtoast' post='675051' date='Jun 24 2008, 02:41 PM']The BCS system is a joke, but this proposal is just as bad. The method of seeding is ridiculous.

What we need is the top 8 teams chosen and seeded by computer polls. You would still have arguments from a few teams that get left out, but if the human element is taken out of the selection process no one could cry about getting cheated by an unfair bias of any sort.[/quote]

How can you say no one can be cheated by an unfair bias? The computer polls factor in the polls which have a blatant unfair bias in preseason rankings and coaches voting. You vote a team into the BCS in your conference then you share in the monies. That seems a bit unfair. Homefield advantage in college football means a lot. When some teams are playing 7-8 games and others 4-5 that is an unfair bias.

Seed them 1-16 with at larges in the mix, I am not sure I like that but I understand your qualms. Any system where the conference champions in the 11 conferences are not involved is irrelevant to finding a college football champion.
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[quote name='globetrotter' post='675083' date='Jun 24 2008, 04:17 PM']How can you say no one can be cheated by an unfair bias? The computer polls factor in the polls which have a blatant unfair bias in preseason rankings and coaches voting. You vote a team into the BCS in your conference then you share in the monies. That seems a bit unfair. Homefield advantage in college football means a lot. When some teams are playing 7-8 games and others 4-5 that is an unfair bias.

Seed them 1-16 with at larges in the mix, I am not sure I like that but I understand your qualms. Any system where the conference champions in the 11 conferences are not involved is irrelevant to finding a college football champion.[/quote]


1 OSU (Big Ten, #1)
16 Florida Atlantic (Sun Belt, NR, 7-5)

8 Kansas (At Large, #8)
9 Florida (At Large, #9)

5 Va Tech (ACC, #5)
12 Arizona State (At Large, #12)

4 Georgia (At Large, #4)
13 BYU (Mountain West, #19)

3 Oklahoma (Big 12, #3)
14 UCF (CUSA, NR, 10-3)

6 USC (Pac-10, #6)
11 West Virginia (Big East, #11)

7 Missouri (At Large, #7)
10 Hawaii (WAC, #10)

2 LSU (SEC, #2)
15 Central Michigan (MAC, NR, 8-5)

I think that is more reasonable....

Plus it gives you no scenario where its 2 SEC or Big 12 teams playing together in round 1.

The arguments that the 17th team or the team who is left out will still be mad, like the 3rd team, etc etc...I don't think holds much water. In this scenario your fate is in your hands. Win your conference title and you are in. In the above scenario the top 12 teams in the AP poll are all in.
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[quote name='globetrotter' post='675083' date='Jun 24 2008, 05:17 PM']How can you say no one can be cheated by an unfair bias? The computer polls factor in the polls which have a blatant unfair bias in preseason rankings and coaches voting. You vote a team into the BCS in your conference then you share in the monies. That seems a bit unfair. Homefield advantage in college football means a lot. When some teams are playing 7-8 games and others 4-5 that is an unfair bias.

Seed them 1-16 with at larges in the mix, I am not sure I like that but I understand your qualms. [b]Any system where the conference champions in the 11 conferences are not involved is irrelevant to finding a college football champion.[/b][/quote]

What a joke...

You're joking right? The winning percentage of teams that don't play in the "big 6" against teams in the "big 6" I would bet is less than 10%, probably more like 5%... now we're assuming they're going to go on a 4 game run???

Wac, Sunbelt, etc., etc., etc. have no business griping about not having a shot at the NC game. History tells you that just about every time they play a top 6 conference team they lose. They'll not string together 4 straight games to win it all - won't happen.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='675125' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:23 PM']What a joke...

You're joking right? The winning percentage of teams that don't play in the "big 6" against teams in the "big 6" I would bet is less than 10%, probably more like 5%... now we're assuming they're going to go on a 4 game run???

Wac, Sunbelt, etc., etc., etc. have no business griping about not having a shot at the NC game. History tells you that just about every time they play a top 6 conference team they lose. They'll not string together 4 straight games to win it all - won't happen.[/quote]

Its nowhere near 10% way above....way above.
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