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Why isn't Mike Brown saying this?


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The Rams are bad, ok, they are just downright terrible. However we share the same record (0-2) and both teams have been rather unspectacular in the first two weeks of the season.

Why isn't Mike Brown promising a "win or else." ultimatum? I honestly believe he won't fire Marvin, ever. Marvin will have to walk away from this job before someone else takes over as Bengals head coach.

[b]Owner Rosenbloom pledges change if Rams don't turn it around[/b]

ESPN.com news services
Updated: September 16, 2008, 12:42 PM ET
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ST. LOUIS -- A day after unleashing a lengthy tirade about his winless team's poor play, St. Louis Rams coach Scott Linehan was more positive Monday about turning the season around, saying, [b]"I don't have a choice and neither does anybody else around here."[/b]

That reality became more apparent when [b]team owner Chip Rosenbloom told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the team's play was "not acceptable" and warned changes will come if things don't improve.[/b]

The Rams, 3-13 last season, have in two weeks endured a pair of lopsided losses -- a 38-3 drubbing by the Eagles in Week 1 and a 41-13 loss to the Giants on Sunday, in which they were outscored 28-7 in the second half and gave up six sacks.
Things are bad enough in St. Louis that Las Vegas has installed the Seahawks, who are also 0-2 and have been swamped by an early wave of injuries, as 10-point favorites.

Just how bad are the Rams?
The offense is 3-for-26 on third-down conversions, has yet to run a play inside the opponent's 20-yard line and has allowed quarterback Marc Bulger to absorb 10 sacks. The defense has coughed up 963 total yards and allowed a league-high 79 points.

When Rosenbloom assumed control of the team in January after his mother, team owner Georgia Frontiere, passed away, he said there would be no sudden changes until he could evaluate the team. But in an interview with the Post-Dispatch, he made it clear that he's seen enough.

[b]"Obviously, the game of football is about winning," Rosenbloom said, according to the report. "The level of play is not acceptable to me or anybody in the organization."[/b]

In the interview, Rosenbloom asked that the team's fans remain patient.
"I am happy for this team to be in St. Louis, where we have an appreciative fan base," he said, according to the report. "And I hope that the fans will not waver in support of their team -- even when times are a little tough."
[b]But he also pledged that change would come if things don't improve.
"Things will get better," Rosenbloom said. "And if they don't, changes will be made."[/b]
Linehan, who is normally soft-spoken but unleashed a lengthy diatribe after Sunday's loss, tried to be more upbeat a day later.
"In my mind, we're going to beat Seattle," Linehan said. "I'm not making any guarantees. In my mind we're going to beat Seattle and we're going to right this ship, OK, because we don't have a choice.
"When you don't win games, people are going to want the head coach's head. That's the way it works," Linehan added. "I've accepted that only as part of the job, but not as part of where we're going."
Jokingly, Linehan said he thought about radically altering the schedule in search of a positive result, perhaps by holding practice at midnight and having players sleep during the day. Seriously, he noted it was pointless to worry about practicing the red zone offense until the Rams get there.
"We could eat baloney sandwiches on Wednesday, penalize the team for not playing very good," Linehan said. "We could try all that stuff. The bottom line is it's how we play on Sunday and what we do when we get in those moments that's going to decide our fate."
Linehan did, however, hint at personnel changes this week. The list of potential candidates could include safety Corey Chavous, cornerback Tye Hill, wide receiver Dane Looker and offensive linemen Richie Incognito and Nick Leckey.
Linehan was 8-8 in 2006, his first season as a head coach at any level. But the Rams are in the midst of a sorry 3-15 skid dating to last season, and echoes of their 0-8 start last year are lingering with an increasingly hostile fan base.
Thus far the addition of offensive coordinator Al Saunders is an early-season flop -- the Rams scored their only touchdown of the season on a fluke play against the Giants. And the statistics only hint at how much the offense is struggling: Sunday, Bulger limped away after Jackson bumped knees with him on one handoff, and Jackson tripped on the turf on what could have been a 66-yard touchdown run.
"I think it's a fragile group and we've got to stay the course," Saunders said. "I'm disappointed, certainly. I'm not discouraged about these guys, because I know what we can do down the road."
The defense has been every bit as shaky. The Giants had six gains of 28 yards or more while foiling the Rams' pregame strategy of controlling the run and stopping Plaxico Burress.

"I think there are some individuals lacking confidence," defensive coordinator Jim Haslett said. "They just need to go out and play."
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='701839' date='Sep 16 2008, 05:04 PM']likely, because he's trying to sell the team since his mom (georgia frontiere) died and is kissing up to the fans. Teams without fans don't sell well.



(this is not a defense of mike brown)[/quote]

Could be. Or maybe the guy just wants to win. He may be by being so vocal so early letting fans
Know they may be about to clean house and begin rebuilding.

Mike Brown won't fire Marvin, I just don't see it happening. I'm not entirely convinced Marvin deserves
To lose his job.

I would not be opposed to seeing Zampese take over the controls on offense. We are badly in need of change on O.
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In my humble opinion, for the Bengals to make any changes, its gonna have to start with Mike Brown.

Marvin Lewis had the team going in the right direction at one point, and it seems to me thats when Brown decided he needed to step in even more, and you have seen the results since.

The Bengals need a GM, and they need to let that GM run the team.

Much like the Browns with Carmen Policy and Dwight..eh...you know..

Once they deiced to get a real football guy to run the team, things have turned around..not completely mind you, but they are getting better.
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It isn't any surprise. We all know that for the most part MB has been very loyal to people that have worked for him.

I honestly believe that we will see marked improvement this week and/or next week. I bet MB is of the same mindset.

It really has nothing to do with being greedy, stupid, etc. (Maybe overly optimistic).
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Mike isnt saying anything like that because he knows it what it would cost him.

[quote name='Chef Dawg' post='701845' date='Sep 16 2008, 05:55 PM']In my humble opinion, for the Bengals to make any changes, its gonna have to start with Mike Brown.

Marvin Lewis had the team going in the right direction at one point, and it seems to me thats when Brown decided he needed to step in even more, and you have seen the results since.

The Bengals need a GM, and they need to let that GM run the team.

Much like the Browns with Carmen Policy and Dwight..eh...you know..

Once they deiced to get a real football guy to run the team, things have turned around..not completely mind you, but they are getting better.[/quote]


I'd just be happy with more scouts. Someone would have to look it up, but I think we have the smallest scouting department in the NFL.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='701872' date='Sep 16 2008, 07:52 PM']Mike isnt saying anything like that because he knows it what it would cost him.




I'd just be happy with more scouts. Someone would have to look it up, but I think we have the smallest scouting department in the NFL.[/quote]

Our drafting/scouting has been horrible under Marvin/Mike. I know we had some trouble with injury, but they have drafted one Probowler.....Carson.

We did sign a few (Tory, Shayne, Deltha), but all the others were here before Marvin.

So, do we lack great talent (scouting) or do we lack great coaching (Marvin/Mike's control)??

Either way, the Bengals are not getting the job done right now.
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[quote name='Chef Dawg' post='701845' date='Sep 17 2008, 07:55 AM']In my humble opinion, for the Bengals to make any changes, its gonna have to start with Mike Brown.

Marvin Lewis had the team going in the right direction at one point, and it seems to me thats when Brown decided he needed to step in even more, and you have seen the results since.

The Bengals need a GM, and they need to let that GM run the team.

Much like the Browns with Carmen Policy and Dwight..eh...you know..

Once they deiced to get a real football guy to run the team, things have turned around..not completely mind you, but they are getting better.[/quote]

I'm not so sure that Mike Brown has stepped in so much. I mean c'mon, the only thing he's done is taken Chris Henry back. We have no reports of anything else he has done to interfere. Granted, taking Henry back was a huge moment, but it's not the sign of the apocolypse.
MULLY
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[quote name='Jungle1' post='701877' date='Sep 16 2008, 08:01 PM']Our drafting/scouting has been horrible under Marvin/Mike. I know we had some trouble with injury, but they have drafted one Probowler.....Carson.

We did sign a few (Tory, Shayne, Deltha), but all the others were here before Marvin.

So, do we lack great talent (scouting) or do we lack great coaching (Marvin/Mike's control)??

Either way, the Bengals are not getting the job done right now.[/quote]



disagree. The Bengals have drafted quite well under Marvin. Sure there has been some boneheads, but on the whole they've done well at drafting, finding some late round gems, and getting good value for their picks. Injuries (which can't be held against the actual drafting of a player) make it look far worse than it is.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='701889' date='Sep 16 2008, 09:14 PM']disagree. The Bengals have drafted quite well under Marvin. Sure there has been some boneheads, but on the whole they've done well at drafting, finding some late round gems, and getting good value for their picks. Injuries (which can't be held against the actual drafting of a player) make it look far worse than it is.[/quote]

If we have done so well, why are we so bad this year?

Who are these late round gems?

I can think of Ndukwe (and, really the jury is still out).

Others? (I am holding judgment on this year's class)

Odell Thurman...bust
Ahmad Brooks...bust
Jeremi Johnson....chronic weight problems
Peko....like him, but our dline is lacking
Keiwan Ratliff...2nd rounder, gone
Madieu Williams...2nd rounder, 1 good year
Henry...Million dollar athlete, 10 cent head
Caleb Miller....All I have to say is Caleb Miller
Landon Johnson...
Mathias Askew...???

Please tell me who the great draft picks are.

Of course, I admit maybe we are picking well and not coaching them up right.

Something seems wrong.
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[quote name='Jungle1' post='701896' date='Sep 16 2008, 10:44 PM']If we have done so well, [b]why are we so bad this year?[/b]

Who are these late round gems?

I can think of Ndukwe (and, really the jury is still out).

Others? (I am holding judgment on this year's class)

Odell Thurman...bust
Ahmad Brooks...bust
Jeremi Johnson....chronic weight problems
Peko....like him, but our dline is lacking
Keiwan Ratliff...2nd rounder, gone
Madieu Williams...2nd rounder, 1 good year
Henry...Million dollar athlete, 10 cent head
Caleb Miller....All I have to say is Caleb Miller
Landon Johnson...
Mathias Askew...???

Please tell me who the great draft picks are.

Of course, I admit maybe we are picking well and not coaching them up right.

Something seems wrong.[/quote]



coaching, leadership, and lack of attitude/swagger.



Hall, Joseph, Whitworth, Ndukwe, Peko, Geathers, White, Carson, Steinbach, Kelley Washington, Rivers, Andrews, jeremi, Kooistra, and Fanene have all been good draft picks, to name a few.


Guys like Pollack, Tab, Kilmer, Kieft, Madieu, Perry and Irons have been/were slowed by injuries that occured in the NFL, which you can't really associate with their drafting. Other than Kieft and Irons, all showed that they were solid picks when they were actually on the field, particularly Pollack, Tab, and Perry. Guys like Rucker are finally producing now that they're healthy. Again, you can't criticize a draft for injuries that occur afterward. You can criticize it for poor play, but not injuries. If we had taken Ellis in rd 1 and he breaks his neck in training camp and his career is over, that doesn't mean he was the wrong draft choice. It was still the right pick.


This years' draft should yield at least 1 DT to pair with Peko for years to come. Lynch also looks like he's a going to be a great late round pick. While they haven't shown much yet, both Caldwell, Collins, and Sims were considered steals at where we got them.
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[quote name='Chef Dawg' post='701845' date='Sep 16 2008, 05:55 PM']The Bengals need a GM, and they need to let that GM run the team.[/quote]

:doh:


Sorry - but I have to call foul on this.

This is way too generic and does nothing to solve the problem. If you want them to hire a GM - please indicate who...specifically. A nameless/faceless GM does nothing to improve the Bengals chances of winning. Quick question... how many 0-2 NFL teams currently have a GM?

[u]A[/u] GM does not = winning

[u]A[/u] GM does not solve the problem.

Please indicate who...or don't bother.


NOTE - Yes, I realize a Browns fan posted this... But I hear the same thing from Bengals fans. The problem with Mike Brown has nothing to do with his GM abilities. His biggest problem is that he does not demand winning.

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In fairness, Everyone knows this team needs a GM.

Hiring a GM now does nothing.

No one can name any GMs we should hire because they are generally nameless guys. We know of Newsome and Savage because we play those teams constantly and read stories about them.

A GM, regardless of who it is, marks a shift in personel and hiring decisions from Mike Brown to someone whose sole resoponsibility is making football decisions. Someone who doesn't have to run a business and a stadium...someone who can dedicate all of his time and energy to scouting, evaluating and hiring talent.

Not to mention a new position with this responisiblity would be a new pair of eyes to evaluate our current talent and usage of sed talent...which might be all the team needs.
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[quote name='whodey1971' post='701924' date='Sep 17 2008, 07:31 AM']:doh:


Sorry - but I have to call foul on this.

This is way too generic and does nothing to solve the problem. If you want them to hire a GM - please indicate who...specifically. A nameless/faceless GM does nothing to improve the Bengals chances of winning. Quick question... how many 0-2 NFL teams currently have a GM?

[u]A[/u] GM does not = winning

[u]A[/u] GM does not solve the problem.

Please indicate who...or don't bother.


NOTE - Yes, I realize a Browns fan posted this... But I hear the same thing from Bengals fans. The problem with Mike Brown has nothing to do with his GM abilities. His biggest problem is that he does not demand winning.[/quote]


agreed. The issue isn't so much the position, but the actual person making the decisions. I actually think Marvin would be a pretty good GM if he was given that power, I just think it would interfere with coaching the team. I've said for awhile now, Give Marvin the GM powers, and give him an Assistant GM that does 75% of the legwork.

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[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='701870' date='Sep 16 2008, 08:40 PM']It isn't any surprise. We all know that for the most part MB has been very loyal to people that have worked for him.

I honestly believe that we will see marked improvement this week and/or next week. I bet MB is of the same mindset.

[b]It really has nothing to do with being greedy, stupid, etc.[/b] (Maybe overly optimistic).[/quote]

Greedy? No.

Stupid? ?????
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If you think the Bengals are underachieving, then that means
you think they have talent. If you think they have enough talent
to be a Playoff team, then didn't Mike Brown do his job as a GM?

This team went 7-9 last season. Let some players go that I think
everyone would agree got overpaid (Justin and Madieu, Landon even).

Now while I didn`t agree with the latest cuts, (Willie, Rudi and Deltha)
that doesn`t mean that they were all not cut for good reasons (attitude).

I'm not for firing anyone (right now). Or any of the other stuff I have
been reading from some posters for the last few weeks.

Seriously, the Offense is supposed to be the strenght of the team.
If they can get it together and start actually scoring points, they
still have more than enough time to turn this season around.

I am still optimistic about this team and this season.
And believe me, I know I am in the minority.
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[quote name='oldschooler' post='701934' date='Sep 17 2008, 08:03 AM']If you think the Bengals are underachieving, then that means
you think they have talent. If you think they have enough talent
to be a Playoff team, then didn't Mike Brown do his job as a GM?

This team went 7-9 last season. Let some players go that I think
everyone would agree got overpaid (Justin and Madieu, Landon even).

Now while I didn`t agree with the latest cuts, (Willie, Rudi and Deltha)
that doesn`t mean that they were all not cut for good reasons (attitude).

I'm not for firing anyone (right now). Or any of the other stuff I have
been reading from some posters for the last few weeks.

Seriously, the Offense is supposed to be the strenght of the team.
If they can get it together and start actually scoring points, they
still have more than enough time to turn this season around.

I am still optimistic about this team and this season.
And believe me, I know I am in the minority.[/quote]



you're right Old, and I think its a combination of the two. Does this team have enough talent and have they under achieved the last 2 years, and at least had made the playoffs in '06? Absolutely, and Mike should be credited for that. Injuries and underachieving have killed them, not Mike. However, I also think a case can be made that the front office could be doing more to widen the team's margin of error.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='701937' date='Sep 17 2008, 07:10 AM']you're right Old, and I think its a combination of the two. Does this team have enough talent and have they under achieved the last 2 years, and at least had made the playoffs in '06? Absolutely, and Mike should be credited for that. Injuries and underachieving have killed them, not Mike. H[b]owever, I also think a case can be made that the front office could be doing more to widen the team's margin of error.[/b][/quote]


I don`t disagree with that.
But that could be said for the majority of the teams in the NFL too.
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Instead of asking why Mike Brown isn`t saying that,
maybe we should look at why the Rams Owner is saying that . . .


[quote]The Rams are 3-15 in there last 18 games. St. Louis last five losses dating back to last season have been by an average of 25.6ppg.[/quote]


[url="http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/NFL+Features/2008/tidbits3.htm"]http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Featu...08/tidbits3.htm[/url]


Couple that with the fact that he is trying to sell the team.
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[quote name='BengalsNYC' post='701841' date='Sep 16 2008, 06:19 PM']Could be. Or maybe the guy just wants to win. He may be by being so vocal so early letting fans
Know they may be about to clean house and begin rebuilding.

Mike Brown won't fire Marvin, I just don't see it happening. I'm not entirely convinced Marvin deserves
To lose his job.

I would not be opposed to seeing Zampese take over the controls on offense. We are badly in need of change on O.[/quote]


tey were 3-13 last year in a weak division, 1 team with a winning record,


rather huge differences between the two franchises, not to mention what others already have, that ownership is in turmoil with deaths and rumors of moving the team, etc.

not to mention mike doesnt play fiddle to fickle jerkoffs bridge jumping after two games, let alone the ones bridge jumping after 1 game....
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