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Most wins in a QB's first 5 years. :-)


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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='733481' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:14 AM']hit a nerve did i?[/quote]

Not at all. I dont care about the pro bowl. Not even a little bit. If it makes you feel better to think it bothers me, feel free.

I was simply pointing out how ridiculous it is. Brett Favre making the pro bowl this year is just retarded. So is Phillip Rivers not making it. The AP All-pro team is the true "all-star" team in the NFL. The ProBowl is a popularity contest.

That said, Ben didnt deserve to go. I dont have a problem with that. You guys are the ones who make such a big deal about the pro bowl (since the Pro Bowl MVP is Palmer's one and only "accomplishment").
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[quote name='oftt4' post='733489' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:42 AM']Not at all. I dont care about the pro bowl. Not even a little bit. If it makes you feel better to think it bothers me, feel free.

I was simply pointing out how ridiculous it is. Brett Favre making the pro bowl this year is just retarded. So is Phillip Rivers not making it. The AP All-pro team is the true "all-star" team in the NFL. The ProBowl is a popularity contest.

That said, Ben didnt deserve to go. I dont have a problem with that. You guys are the ones who make such a big deal about the pro bowl (since the Pro Bowl MVP is Palmer's one and only "accomplishment").[/quote]


Still bitter about not making prom king huh?
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[quote name='oftt4' post='733548' date='Dec 18 2008, 02:36 PM']What the hell are you talking about?[/quote]


you were just going on about how the probowl is a popularity contest, and i had to laugh because it remided me of people saying the same thing about prom queen/king in high school.
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48 - Ben Roethlisberger (2004-2008)
48 - Otto Graham (1950-54)
48 - Dan Marino (1983 - 1987)
48 - Tom Brady (2000-2004)
46 - John Elway (1983-1987)

Hate to break this to you, but Graham got his 48 when they only played 12 games per year, and had an 0.800 winning percentage (48-12) vs. Roethlisberger's 0.600 (48-32) . If you want to compare apples to apples.

64 - Otto Graham (1950-54)
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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' post='733563' date='Dec 18 2008, 04:01 PM']48 - Ben Roethlisberger (2004-2008)
48 - Otto Graham (1950-54)
48 - Dan Marino (1983 - 1987)
48 - Tom Brady (2000-2004)
46 - John Elway (1983-1987)

Hate to break this to you, but Graham got his 48 when they only played 12 games per year, and had an 0.800 winning percentage (48-12) vs. Roethlisberger's 0.600 (48-32) . If you want to compare apples to apples.

64 - Otto Graham (1950-54)[/quote]


post more around these parts Amish. ^_^

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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' post='733563' date='Dec 18 2008, 04:01 PM']48 - Ben Roethlisberger (2004-2008)
48 - Otto Graham (1950-54)
48 - Dan Marino (1983 - 1987)
48 - Tom Brady (2000-2004)
46 - John Elway (1983-1987)

Hate to break this to you, but Graham got his 48 when they only played 12 games per year, and had an 0.800 winning percentage (48-12) vs. Roethlisberger's 0.600 (48-32) . If you want to compare apples to apples.

64 - Otto Graham (1950-54)[/quote]


And I don't think Graham sucked on his thumb or grabbed his shoulder every time he fucked up...
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[quote name='Elflocko' post='733566' date='Dec 18 2008, 05:04 PM']And I don't think Graham sucked on his thumb or grabbed his shoulder every time he fucked up...[/quote]


As long as he has been a part of guaranteeing my team at least the 2nd seed in this years playoff and have a good shot at his second ring. Swept the Bengals 3 times. Hold all sorts of rookie QB records. Navigated the hardest NFL schedule in 30 years to a playoff berth. Won a Super Bowl. Have a legendary play named after him. Have the record for most wins by a QB in first 5 years. On and On and On. Do all that in his first 5 years and still have another 9 years or so left, he can be the biggest drama queen in the history of the world and I won't give a fuck.
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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' post='733563' date='Dec 18 2008, 04:01 PM']48 - Ben Roethlisberger (2004-2008)
48 - Otto Graham (1950-54)
48 - Dan Marino (1983 - 1987)
48 - Tom Brady (2000-2004)
46 - John Elway (1983-1987)

Hate to break this to you, but Graham got his 48 when they only played 12 games per year, and had an 0.800 winning percentage (48-12) vs. Roethlisberger's 0.600 (48-32) . If you want to compare apples to apples.

64 - Otto Graham (1950-54)[/quote]

He is a special case. Otto Graham started playing for the Browns in 1946 (in the AAFL, the Browns joined the NFL in 1950). So 1950 through 1954 wouldnt be his first five years, would they?

Graham's accomplishments are incredible, but he played professional football for four years before this list started counting games, so it isnt really comparing apples to apples as you say.
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[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='728987' date='Dec 1 2008, 03:59 PM'][img]http://www.corporate-aliens.com/quotes/scarlettohara.jpg[/img]



[b]"As God is my witness, as God is my witness I will never give him any credit!!!They're not going to lick me! I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, He will have no credit! No, nor any of his folk. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill! As God is my witness, I will never give him any credit, he will always be a game manager!!!!"[/b][/quote]

TBH, I have to agree with him. The quest to discredit Ben from anything is childish.
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[quote name='Bunghole' post='733848' date='Dec 20 2008, 03:44 PM']Can we change the subject yet?

Let's talk about the Ravens not making the playoffs now that the Colts already wrapped up the wildcard![/quote]

Well...it looks like it is their spot to lose (the #6 seed).
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  • 4 months later...
[quote name='oftt4' post='733831' date='Dec 20 2008, 12:49 PM']He is a special case. Otto Graham started playing for the Browns in 1946 (in the AAFL, the Browns joined the NFL in 1950). So 1950 through 1954 wouldnt be his first five years, would they?

Graham's accomplishments are incredible, but he played professional football for four years before this list started counting games, so it isnt really comparing apples to apples as you say.[/quote]
The OP shows Grahams first 5 years as 1950-54, as does the NFL. If you have better info, I recommend that you call Joe Horrigan at the HoF: (330) 456-8207. Failing that, it is my opinion that discrediting Graham's superior numbers to elevate Roethlisberger's is selectively ignoring one fact to support an inferior second fact. The two sets of numbers are in the same NFL-defined context - denying one denies both.

Roethlisberger (48-32) has as many wins, and 20 more losses, than Graham (48-12) over the same period.

It's an elite group he's in, even if his numbers are padded due to having played 20 more games than Graham. Be happy with that, man.
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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' post='773670' date='May 5 2009, 08:45 PM']The OP shows Grahams first 5 years as 1950-54, as does the NFL. If you have better info, I recommend that you call Joe Horrigan at the HoF: (330) 456-8207. Failing that, it is my opinion that discrediting Graham's superior numbers to elevate Roethlisberger's is selectively ignoring one fact to support an inferior second fact. The two sets of numbers are in the same NFL-defined context - denying one denies both.

[b]Roethlisberger (48-32) has as many wins, and 20 more losses, than Graham (48-12) over the same period.
[/b]
It's an elite group he's in, even if his numbers are padded due to having played 20 more games than Graham. Be happy with that, man.[/quote]




Totally incorrect

22 losses including playoffs

2004

13-0 as starter in regular season 1-1 in playoffs

2005

9-3 as starter in regular season 4-0 in playoffs :D

2006

7-8 as starter in regular season

2007

10-5 as starter in regular season 0-1 in playoffs

2008

12-4 as starter in regular season 3-0 in playoffs :D


and he won the last Super Bowl on the almighty 30th attempt


[img]http://silentarchimedes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/holmes.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.steelersonly.com/images/ben_roethlisberger_super_bowl.jpg[/img]

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  • 2 weeks later...
[quote name='AmishBengalFan' post='773670' date='May 5 2009, 08:45 PM']The OP shows Grahams first 5 years as 1950-54, as does the NFL. If you have better info, I recommend that you call Joe Horrigan at the HoF: (330) 456-8207. Failing that, it is my opinion that discrediting Graham's superior numbers to elevate Roethlisberger's is selectively ignoring one fact to support an inferior second fact. The two sets of numbers are in the same NFL-defined context - denying one denies both.

Roethlisberger (48-32) has as many wins, and 20 more losses, than Graham (48-12) over the same period.

It's an elite group he's in, even if his numbers are padded due to having played 20 more games than Graham. Be happy with that, man.[/quote]

As Bam has already pointed out you are, once again, wrong. (Here is some advice, when trying to make yourself sound smart...you should make an attempt to get your facts right).

Using only regular season starts, Ben is 51-20 as a starter. Including playoff games, Ben is 59-22 as a starter.

Otto Graham was 48-11 in his first 5 years as a starter. Including playoff games, Otto was 51-14 as a starter.

Of course this doesnt take into account my original point that these numbers ignore his first 4 years as a Cleveland Brown.

There is one thing you are right about though. Ben's numbers are impressive, even more so when you take away the imaginary losses that you put in there.
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  • 3 months later...

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