FA Centers

[Mikey6866]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='747360' date='Feb 18 2009, 02:00 AM']Jason Brown would be a long term solution to what has been a very problematic spot. He's young but he has experience, so we won't have to suffer through a rookie playing an extremely integral part of the offense. One of the spots on the line (RT or C) HAS to be filled through free agency, so why not take a young extremely talented center?[/quote]

I totally agree with you here. If Brown does want stupid money we need to turn to Birk. I want a veteran center that could just plug right in. I dont want a rookie center. I admittadly havent seen much of the contract dialogue between Brown and the Ravens, but I have seen alot of FA listings and most do not have Brown as one of the top centers avail. I have seen him play numerous times being that he is in our division so I see him alot and I know he is one of the best young centers in the game. I dont know why he is not on the national radar yet. I just cant see somebody offering him 6yr 37 mil or even close to that. I guess we'll see shortly after the 27th.

[USN Bengal]

I really thought that the rats would sign him. I am now exercising my right to change my mind... I want this big sumbitch instead of Saturday or Birk.
6' 3" 320 and only 25?

Hells yeah, get this bad ass Mikey Brown.


FWIW... ESPN's free agent tracker has Brown listed as an unrestricted free agent, and also rates him as the top FA center. Here is their "insiders" write up on Brown;

Jason Brown | C Complete player profile
Full Name: J.W. Jason Brown
Born: May 5, 1983
Henderson, NC
Height: 6-3
Weight: 320 lbs. Age: 25
Pos: C
Experience: 4 years
College: North Carolina
Drafted: Year:2005 Round:4 Pick:23, Ravens
Insider Analysis
Grade 77
Expert's Take Brown has been a mainstay on the Ravens' offensive line for the past three seasons. He has an excellent combination of size, strength and athleticism. He works well with a low center of gravity to anchor effectively versus powerful bull rushers as well as getting movement off the line as a run-blocker. He has good pop and power initially to engage defenders as well as powerful leg drive at the point of attack. He is an instinctive player who understands leverage, angles and body positioning. He is best to short set defenders as a pass-blocker and can clog up the middle on combination blocking schemes. He will struggle at times with quicker interior stunters, when he is blocking one-on-one. He isn't always effective to chip up to the second level and stay connected to moving targets. He is a tough hard-nosed player who finishes well and brings attitude to the offensive line.

[turningpoint]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='747353' date='Feb 18 2009, 12:31 AM']uncapped football will be the end of football.. itl ltake 2-3 years totally go don the shitter, but itll be yankees style baseball in no time. and uncapped football means the bengals are the reds forever.. unable to pend a quarter billion on payroll so hope of a wild cardis always fun..

there is awlays a good mix of teams in the nfl playoffs, with a cap at least..

that will end ..

especially with the economy, small city thats already fucked up, and inability to make competitive payroll... = disaster.

and the steelers arent always in the playoffs, just recently, they were garbage for a while while the ravens reigned supreme.. for fucks sake jon kitna made a great comeback drive and td pass to matt schoebel against them.. in their house.. in 2003.

if they dont work out the cap.. the league is fucked...[/quote]


This post is so uneducated it's a joke.

Since when have the bengals offered contracts to there big FA's?

Justin Smith, madeiu Williams, Eric Stienbach, TJ?

They let them go and they rebuild through the draft, this wont change wehn the cap goes either.

I find it very fucking hard that we will be a losing team if we're drafting top 5 talent every year.

The one thing Football has that MLB doesn't is the power of the NFL draft on how it can even up teams in the league in a matter of a year (see ATL and MIA).

You also haven't noticed under the uncapped year the teams to finish in the top 8 aren't allowed to sign a FA until they lose a FA to another team.

[turningpoint]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='747359' date='Feb 18 2009, 12:59 AM']what palyers want and what they get are often different.. he will probably sign late.. and the team will likelt have to add a fake year to the end to mend the ego, turning a 4 yr 22 mil deal into a 5 year 36 mil deal, never seeing that magical end year..

with the competition at top talent FA centers, he wont likely get that much...

but who knows.. do any of the big stupid money spenders need a center? dallas? oakland?

i cant wait for something worth while to happen in the football world....[/quote]


Dallas has Gurode.

Oakland needs one,but rumor has it they'll just re-sign Grove.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='turningpoint' post='747405' date='Feb 18 2009, 09:15 AM']This post is so uneducated it's a joke.

Since when have the bengals offered contracts to there big FA's?

Justin Smith, madeiu Williams, Eric Stienbach, TJ?

They let them go and they rebuild through the draft, this wont change wehn the cap goes either.[/quote]



Just because they weren't signed to long term deals, doesn't mean contracts
were not offered. The Bengals offered to re-sign TJ last January.


And they re-signed (or extended which is the same thing) Willie, Levi, Chad,
TJ once before, Rudi, Bobbie Williams, Geathers, Peko and Whitworth.

[akiliMVP]

Well NFL Network is reporting the Ravens will franchise Suggs if they don't reach an agreement by Thursday, so Jason Brown will hit the market.

Make it happen!

[ccartman2]

[quote]Since when have the bengals offered contracts to there big FA's?

Justin Smith, madeiu Williams, Eric Stienbach, TJ?[/quote]


The only Mistake that the Bengals have made (can speak for TJ yet) in regards to big FAs is Stienbach and even that is debatable. He is a great pulling guard, but struggled in pass protection against big tackles. Whitworth was a good replacement IMO. If Levi hadn't gone to shit, our left side would be every bit as good as any team in the league.

[quote]They let them go and they rebuild through the draft, this wont change wehn the cap goes either.

I find it very fucking hard that we will be a losing team if we're drafting top 5 talent every year.

The one thing Football has that MLB doesn't is the power of the NFL draft on how it can even up teams in the league in a matter of a year (see ATL and MIA).[/quote]

Where the Bengals and other small market teams is their good players will all be one and done. You will see a lot more trades (Like baseball) of stars from small markets to big markets in hopes of a draft pick. Constant turnover for small teams, while the big markets get stronger and stronger.

[quote]You also haven't noticed under the uncapped year the teams to finish in the top 8 aren't allowed to sign a FA until they lose a FA to another team.[/quote]

Okay, so put yourself in Palmer's shoes. He becomes a free agent, Don't you think he can wait until one of those eight teams lose a FA to get the big contract he will be able to get in NY, Washington, NE, Dallas, or any other big market team you want to put in here. All you will see is the big FAs waiting in Free agency instead of going first day. Sure it will be a bit of a handicap, but I'd guess the small market teams will be more then willing to take players of the big teams scrap heap because they can't get the big fish.

[Marvin]

reading raven's insider it seems like they're not going to have the money to re-sign Brown. with news of the potential tagging of suggs, it gives them only $10 million under the cap that's not even counting tendering their RFA or rookie pool money. so it seems they have to choose either, two of ray-ray, scott, brown and leonhard. and with what ray-ray is asking (20 million gauranteed) they may only be able to keep him. not mention they have a need at cb and wr. they've kind of fucked themselves this year and next with the free agents.

brown wants to get paid, there is no way baltimore signs him for what he thinks he's worth. i would surely give him the 6.5-7 million he wants have the center position filled for the next 6 years. as is obvious he's young and talented, this was his first year playing center and he made the pro bowl as an alternate, not too shabby.

it's probably a pipe dream and those who think we should draft a center in the second or third round at the expense of defensive help or rb depth will more than likely get their wish. too bad that's not the right move.

[scharm]

[quote]Where the Bengals and other small market teams is their good players will all be one and done. You will see a lot more trades (Like baseball) of stars from small markets to big markets in hopes of a draft pick. Constant turnover for small teams, while the big markets get stronger and stronger.[/quote]

I could be mistaken but in an uncapped NFL, unrestricted FA is not granted to players unti after 6 years.

That's huge if it's true.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

is charles bentley done in the nfl ?

[Oldcat]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='747416' date='Feb 18 2009, 08:47 AM']The only Mistake that the Bengals have made (can speak for TJ yet) in regards to big FAs is Stienbach and even that is debatable. He is a great pulling guard, but struggled in pass protection against big tackles. Whitworth was a good replacement IMO. If Levi hadn't gone to shit, our left side would be every bit as good as any team in the league.[/quote]

We had contracts up on pretty much the entire line that year -- Steiny, Levi, Willie and Bobby. Since Steinbach was the worst of those 4, something had to give. After all he was hurt for a couple of those years and was less effective than he is now.

If Levi and Willie hadn't pretty much fallen off the table it would have looked good. And only Willie's extension was arguable because of his age.

The Salary Cap means nobody can hoard all their players forever. This includes us, too.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='scharm' post='747450' date='Feb 18 2009, 02:16 PM']I could be mistaken but in an uncapped NFL, unrestricted FA is not granted to players unti after 6 years.

That's huge if it's true.[/quote]

That is true. They put poison pills in the CBA to try to ensure that both sides wanted to come to the table before allowing an uncapped NFL.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='TrustNMarvin' post='747443' date='Feb 18 2009, 11:05 AM']it's probably a pipe dream and those who think we should draft a center in the second or third round at the expense of defensive help or rb depth will more than likely get their wish. too bad that's not the right move.[/quote]

Well i wouldn't mind drafting a center high if we have gotten Scott or someone on defense in FA. Or draft LB and grab this center.
But I think we need to land one high quality FA this year, like we did with Odom last year.

We have too many holes on the team for the low draft picks to possibly fill all at once.

[claptonrocks]

I just dont see this team spending that much money on a free agent center....
Who's to say they arent thinking of Kyle Cook taking that position this year?
He's the strongest player on the team and if he hadnt had the toe problem he might have unseated Ghiachic ...

I think they use what they have and take a center in round two ( Mack if he's there ) or three ( Wood or Luigs )
Hell they may do what the Ravens did and draft a guard and convert him to center ( Brown )...

The only big free agent signing in Cincytown will be if they are able to secure Bensen ... That would be huge in thier
plans....

[Marvin]

being that the center calls blocking assignments on the line, i would like to have someone that has experience doing that. i don't like a rookie having that resposibility.

while they have experience, both saturday and birk, are on the wrong side of thirty and would necessitate drafting a center anyway, if not this year then in the year after. instead of signing one of these two (using valuable cap space) and drafting a center (using valuable picks) it seems the prudent move would be to sign a guy (Jason Brown) to a long big money contract and just use the cap space.

additionally, outside alex mack and jonathan luigs, the other rookie centers are scouted as having a hard time with massive dt's because they are under sized or have problems with leverage, which is something that will be immediately exposed in this division, and has been guychecks problem since the beginning

[bengaled]

i still can't believe we drafted eric ghiaciuc over jason brown. :rofl:

the only logical reason i could come up with was our scout/coach/alexander was familiar with central michigan's program, being a former OL coach there. that was the year we wasted two draft picks on linemen from that school. what a fucked up deal that turned out to be.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='bengaled' post='747468' date='Feb 18 2009, 03:06 PM']i still can't believe we drafted eric ghiaciuc over jason brown. :rofl:

the only logical reason i could come up with was our scout/coach/alexander was familiar with central michigan's program, being a former OL coach there. that was the year we wasted two draft picks on linemen from that school. what a fucked up deal that turned out to be. [/quote]

I think we should let you help with the drafting. With your incredible hindsight, I'm sure you would be helpful.

[bengaled]

[quote name='kennethmw' post='747471' date='Feb 18 2009, 02:13 PM']I think we should let you help with the drafting. With your incredible hindsight, I'm sure you would be helpful.[/quote]

i agree and would love the opportunity. on top of which, i have a LOT more time to spend on the process than our coaches do.

try this for entertainment...go back and research where ghiacuic was projected and where jason brown was projected. that one was an easy call.

[ccartman2]

[quote name='Oldcat' post='747455' date='Feb 18 2009, 01:34 PM']We had contracts up on pretty much the entire line that year -- Steiny, Levi, Willie and Bobby. Since Steinbach was the worst of those 4, something had to give. After all he was hurt for a couple of those years and was less effective than he is now.

If Levi and Willie hadn't pretty much fallen off the table it would have looked good. And only Willie's extension was arguable because of his age.

The Salary Cap means nobody can hoard all their players forever. This includes us, too.[/quote]

Guess I should have said Potential Mistake they made, because I do agree. I still thing he commanded too much money for a guard and has been more then adequately replaced by Whitworth. Still, that is the only one yet that any one could point to as a bad decision and many will argue the other side of it. Once TJ signs a fat contract elsewhere, perhaps everyone will realize how unlikely he was going to remain a Bengal with out the tag.


Back on the subject of Centers, I wouldn't mind one of the 30+ year olds out there to give time to develop either one from the draft (or cook or stantucci if they turn out to be decent).

[gatorclaws]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' post='747453' date='Feb 18 2009, 01:24 PM']is charles bentley done in the nfl ?[/quote]

LaCharles is LaDone

[scharm]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='747462' date='Feb 18 2009, 01:44 PM']I just dont see this team spending that much money on a free agent center....
Who's to say they arent thinking of Kyle Cook taking that position this year?
He's the strongest player on the team and if he hadnt had the toe problem he might have unseated Ghiachic ...

I think they use what they have and take a center in round two ( Mack if he's there ) or three ( Wood or Luigs )
Hell they may do what the Ravens did and draft a guard and convert him to center ( Brown )...

The only big free agent signing in Cincytown will be if they are able to secure Bensen ... That would be huge in thier
plans....[/quote]

I think a vet FA interior OL will be top priority for the team or you'd be hearing more about contract talks with GQ.

I don't think they'll go into the draft without having some options in case they don't get they guy they want.

It may not be a current C either, I could see them reconnecting with Mike Goff then giving them options because he once was the future C of this football team but was ultimately moved because they had so many needs along the line that they couldn't afford to sit Richie Brahm.

I probalbly go after a guy like Goff before giving Brown 5/6 million a year. Goff could give you solid options in 3 spots providing depth and making transitions possible.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='bengaled' post='747479' date='Feb 18 2009, 03:44 PM']i agree and would love the opportunity. on top of which, i have a LOT more time to spend on the process than our coaches do.

try this for entertainment...go back and research where ghiacuic was projected and where jason brown was projected. that one was an easy call.[/quote]

I get enough entertainment just reading your posts, Carnac!

[cms]

[quote name='USN Bengal' post='747229' date='Feb 17 2009, 08:28 PM']Great article on the possible available FA centers. I think we should drastically overpay for Saturday if he is available and if not... we should go after Birk, no questions asked.

[url="http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20090214/?pg=31&pm=1&u1=friend"]http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnews...1&u1=friend[/url]

[img]http://sportingnewstoday-cdn.texterity.com/tcprojects/sportingnewstoday/sportingnewstoday/inbox/59352/imgpages/82/snt20090214_0031_fg.png[/img][/quote]

Wasn't Brad Meester surpose to be a free agent this year?

[oldschooler]

From Joe Reedy's blog . . .


[quote]There has been some speculation about center Jeff Saturday possibly being looked at by the Bengals, but Colts coach Jim Caldwell is taking the approach that Saturday is still a Colt: "That's a bit premature just in terms that you begin to act as if he's already gone. I look at it from a different perspective. He's with us until otherwise indicated. He's been and certainly anticipate him to continue to be a very, very important part of our offense."[/quote]



[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog09&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ac78cbe8a-2b47-436d-a33e-623f9b65de7cPost%3aa7b1fb34-47d6-4768-a49a-09575e0a13c2&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com"]http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/s....cincinnati.com[/url]

[scharm]

Saturday would be huge for this team. I'd put my black and orange homer glasses back on and proclaim we are going to the superbowl if it would happen.