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oftt4

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I figured I would collect all of the media "proof" for you (just like last offseason) that Ben is indeed considered a superior QB to 90.625% of the starters in the league.

[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9173230/Schein's-Nine:-Best-Super-Bowl-nuggets"]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9173230...er-Bowl-nuggets[/url]

[quote]Ben's always played his best when it mattered the most since he entered the league.

And that's why I've had him as a top-five quarterback for some time.

But after Sunday night, he's no longer in the conversation with the Phil Rivers and the Eli Mannings and the Carson Palmers and the Donovan McNabbs and anyone else in that 4-12 category.

It's Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger. Then draw the line.[/quote]

I'll post more as I find them...I dont want you to fall behind.
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Here's one from September (just so you dont think it is all because of the Superbowl)

[url="http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3594747"]http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3594747[/url]

[quote]Tom Brady is out for the season with a knee injury, and Peyton Manning is not himself after missing the entire preseason with a knee problem of his own. So with the NFL's top two quarterbacks on the mend, which young signal-callers are poised to step into the void and take their games to the next level?

Scouts Inc.'s pro scouts debated that topic. They considered possibilities such as Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers, Cleveland's Derek Anderson and Buffalo's Trent Edwards. But the finalists had stronger résumés.



Our experts whittled the list down to five names: Denver's Jay Cutler, New York's Eli Manning, San Diego's Philip Rivers, Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger and Dallas' Tony Romo. From there, they sat down at the Scouts Inc. roundtable and took a vote on the best quarterback in that group.

Manning and Roethlisberger won points with their Super Bowl rings, Cutler and Romo were lauded for their physical skills and Rivers got credit for playing in last season's AFC Championship Game with a torn ACL. All have been impressive through the first two weeks of this season. Each scout ranked the list from 1 to 5 -- with five points awarded for a first-place vote, four for second, three for third, two for fourth and one for fifth -- and in the end, Big Ben's combination of size, arm strength, leadership skills and other intangibles gave him the slight edge over Eli Manning.[/quote]
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='748359' date='Feb 21 2009, 06:40 PM']Dude how long have you been on this site?

At least spell my name right.[/quote]


Well, a quick gander to my left tells me it has been since 23-August 06.

LOL. JAMIE_B calling me out for spelling. My apologies.
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  • 1 month later...
More stuff for ya.

ESPN Rank 'Em: Quarterback Talents

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/rank?versionId=3&listId=23#topOfList"]http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnatio...Id=23#topOfList[/url]


As of today, according to 87000+ NFL fans across the country....

Roethlisberger is ranked #4 in the league (with 2400+ first place votes).

Palmer is 10th (with 165 first place votes, fewer than such greats as Jamarcus Russel and Kyle Orton).
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[quote name='oftt4' post='758634' date='Mar 25 2009, 02:44 PM']Well, by that logic...if Pittsburgh fixes their OL, Ben will be #1.[/quote]


LOL

There is a difference, and difference you keep missing because you really arent interested in being honest about it, your more interested in pounding your chest.

The difference is Carson is a pure pocket passer, Ben can move more than Carson and create plays that Carson doesnt. Carson needs a good Oline more than Ben does. With the loss of Richie Braham we lost a center that doesnt get pushed back we lost Carson's ability to step into his passes which has effected his accuracy. If they can get a center in the draft that doest get pushed around (preferably mack) this will do wonders for returning Carson to the top 3. Now it wont quell my concerns about our tackels but if they get a LT in 1 and a C in 2 and move whitworth to RT, I think the line can be really improved next year with the only question mark being LG.

How's that logic? Seriously for once be honest about this stuff as opposed to pounding your chest.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='758645' date='Mar 25 2009, 03:10 PM']LOL

There is a difference, and difference you keep missing because you really arent interested in being honest about it, your more interested in pounding your chest.

The difference is Carson is a pure pocket passer, Ben can move more than Carson and create plays that Carson doesnt. Carson needs a good Oline more than Ben does. With the loss of Richie Braham we lost a center that doesnt get pushed back we lost Carson's ability to step into his passes which has effected his accuracy. If they can get a center in the draft that doest get pushed around (preferably mack) this will do wonders for returning Carson to the top 3. Now it wont quell my concerns about our tackels but if they get a LT in 1 and a C in 2 and move whitworth to RT, I think the line can be really improved next year with the only question mark being LG.

How's that logic? Seriously for once be honest about this stuff as opposed to pounding your chest.[/quote]

Mack would be a reach at your first pick, and he wont be there for your second. I hope he falls to Pittsburgh, but I dont think he will last that long either.

Anyway, yes...I am aware that Palmer needs a great supporting cast to succeed and Ben doesnt. That has been pretty much proven beyond a doubt.

I think the big question mark will be what can Palmer do without TJ and (possibly) Ocho-Moron.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='758959' date='Mar 26 2009, 02:54 PM']Mack would be a reach at your first pick, and he wont be there for your second. I hope he falls to Pittsburgh, but I dont think he will last that long either.

Anyway, yes...I am aware that Palmer needs a great supporting cast to succeed and Ben doesnt. That has been pretty much proven beyond a doubt.

I think the big question mark will be what can Palmer do without TJ and (possibly) Ocho-Moron.[/quote]

Ive seen a number of mocks that have Mack lasting for us to get him in 2, Im not sure but I woulndt be supprised if we can get one of the 3, Mack Unger or Wood. All would be huge upgrade over Guicheck.

Translation - your right.

Well if he succeeds your argument that its about our WRs will certinally have been a straw man wouldnt it?
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='758961' date='Mar 26 2009, 02:57 PM']Ive seen a number of mocks that have Mack lasting for us to get him in 2, Im not sure but I woulndt be supprised if we can get one of the 3, Mack Unger or Wood. All would be huge upgrade over Guicheck.

Translation - your right.

Well if he succeeds your argument that its about our WRs will certinally have been a straw man wouldnt it?[/quote]

Pretty much every mock I have seen has Pittsburgh taking Mack if he gets by Minnesota at 22 or the Eagles at 28. If he is there I dont think the Steelers will pass on him (but I have been wrong in the past). They could go with a DE or CB too. I guess it really depends on who the Steelers see as a better value.

As for Palmer, I see him as a Kurt Warner type of QB (without all of the success that is). Warner was the glory boy of the NFL when he was with the Rams, not coincidentally Holt and Bruce were two of the top 5 receivers in the league at the time.

Then he left STL and did squat with the Giants (average receivers).

Moving on to Zona, he revived his career. Not surprisingly he has two of the top 5 receivers in the league.

Now, I suppose you could try to make the argument that the receivers had success because of Warner, and not vice versa. But that would be wrong.

In STL, Bruce had a 1780 yard season in 1994 (years before Warner arrived) and a 1300 yard season in 2004 (the year after Warner left).

Holt started in STL the same time as Warner so there is no evidence of prior success, however after Warner left Holt went on to have 4 straight seasons of 1180+ yards and 7+ TD's.

In Zona, Boldin had a 1370 yard season as a rookie in 2003 (years before Warner arrived). Fitzgerald has played his entire career with Warner as his QB (at least part time anyway) so there are no numbers to go by...but anyone who watched Fitz last season knows what kind of talent he is.

Anyway, that is how I see Palmer. Give him two very good receivers and plenty of time to throw and he will put up crazy numbers. However, give him average receivers and spotty pass protection and those numbers go in the toilet.

Unfortunately, the first scenario is very rare in the NFL...which is why the stand in the pocket/gunslinger/statue QB's are a dying breed.


[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='759062' date='Mar 26 2009, 11:26 PM']6[/quote]

LOL
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[quote name='oftt4' post='759098' date='Mar 27 2009, 08:15 AM']Pretty much every mock I have seen has Pittsburgh taking Mack if he gets by Minnesota at 22 or the Eagles at 28. If he is there I dont think the Steelers will pass on him (but I have been wrong in the past). They could go with a DE or CB too. I guess it really depends on who the Steelers see as a better value.

As for Palmer, I see him as a Kurt Warner type of QB (without all of the success that is). Warner was the glory boy of the NFL when he was with the Rams, not coincidentally Holt and Bruce were two of the top 5 receivers in the league at the time.

Then he left STL and did squat with the Giants (average receivers).

Moving on to Zona, he revived his career. Not surprisingly he has two of the top 5 receivers in the league.

Now, I suppose you could try to make the argument that the receivers had success because of Warner, and not vice versa. But that would be wrong.

In STL, Bruce had a 1780 yard season in 1994 (years before Warner arrived) and a 1300 yard season in 2004 (the year after Warner left).

Holt started in STL the same time as Warner so there is no evidence of prior success, however after Warner left Holt went on to have 4 straight seasons of 1180+ yards and 7+ TD's.

In Zona, Boldin had a 1370 yard season as a rookie in 2003 (years before Warner arrived). Fitzgerald has played his entire career with Warner as his QB (at least part time anyway) so there are no numbers to go by...but anyone who watched Fitz last season knows what kind of talent he is.

Anyway, that is how I see Palmer. Give him two very good receivers and plenty of time to throw and he will put up crazy numbers. However, give him average receivers and spotty pass protection and those numbers go in the toilet.

Unfortunately, the first scenario is very rare in the NFL...which is why the stand in the pocket/gunslinger/statue QB's are a dying breed.




LOL[/quote]



[url="http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-2.php"]http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-2.php[/url]

Didnt spend much time looking this morning, but like I said any one of the 3 would be a big upgrade.

Dying breed?

Both Mannings, Palmer, Brady, Kerry Collins, Jay Cutler, Matt Castle, Kurt Warner, Matt Hasslebeck, Bulger, Drew Breeze, Jake Delholme, Philip Rivers, Matt Schaubb, Chad Pennington

Now grated some of those guys move more than others and some have had more success than others, but I really wouldnt call any of them scramblers. Hell McKnabb was once thought that he wasnt going to be successfull because he ran too much and didnt stay in the pocket to throw, i remember them trying to coach that out of him.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='759168' date='Mar 27 2009, 11:46 AM'][url="http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-2.php"]http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-2.php[/url]

Didnt spend much time looking this morning, but like I said any one of the 3 would be a big upgrade.[/quote]

That would be a decent draft for the Steelers, but Mack lasting until #38? I just dont see it.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='759207' date='Mar 27 2009, 12:37 PM']That would be a decent draft for the Steelers, but Mack lasting until #38? I just dont see it.[/quote]


Who knows, Ive seen mocks that have Wells and Morinao (sp?) not getting picked untill the 20s.
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  • 1 month later...
:wave:

[quote][size=5][b]Quarterback rankings: Intangibles make the best leaders [/b][/size]
Posted: May 14, 2009

Many factors go into grading a quarterback, and every scout places different levels of emphasis on different aspects of the game. Scouts also must consider things that can't be measured: Leadership, the quarterback's role within a system and performance under pressure. All this makes for uncertainty and goes a long way toward explaining why it is so hard to find agreement on players at the NFL's marquee position.

Here are our top 20 quarterbacks:



1. Peyton Manning, Colts. Critics point to the postseason loss to San Diego, but Manning is the reigning MVP and threw for more than 4,000 yards for the ninth time in 11 NFL seasons, tossed 27 touchdowns to just 12 interceptions and completed 66.8 percent of his passes. And he did it all while recovering from offseason knee surgery. He also had to adjust to life without the real Marvin Harrison. Healthy and with nearly the whole supporting cast back, Manning again should be the NFL's top quarterback in 2009.

2. Tom Brady, Patriots. Before that fateful September day when his knee turned the wrong way, Brady was on his way to becoming perhaps the best QB in league history. After missing the rest of the season, he is practicing with a knee brace and ready to battle Manning for the No. 1 spot. Brady never had elite mobility anyway, so as long as the system and the receivers are in place we expect vintage Brady in '09.

3. Drew Brees, Saints. Last season, Brees became the first QB since Dan Marino in '84 to pass for more than 5,000 yards. Brees also completed 65 percent of his passes and led the NFL in TD passes (34), attempts and completions and was second in yards per attempt (8.0). Here's the best part: He did it with RB Reggie Bush, TE Jeremy Shockey and WR Marques Colston -- his top three weapons -- missing a combined 15 games. They're all healthy now.

[b]4. Carson Palmer, Bengals. Palmer has received the all-clear on his elbow, but it remains to be seen what kind of arm strength the man nicknamed "Jugs" will show in '09. Still, he is a smart, experienced leader who can win games on his own. The good news is an improved line, veteran receivers and talk of a balanced attack won't put the weight of the season on Palmer's arm. [/b]

5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. The Steelers were battered by injuries and hurt by inconsistent line play for much of '08, so Big Ben didn't have his best statistical season. But he saved his best for the biggest games, didn't he? He is a tough, clutch performer who wins big games. As he heads into his prime and the Steelers become more entrenched in a pass-oriented team, he will get more chances to shine.

6. Philip Rivers, Chargers. Rivers has moved into the top tier of NFL quarterbacks the past two seasons. In '08, he set career highs in completion percentage, yards per attempt and touchdowns, and cleared the 4,000-yard plateau for the first time in his career. With LaDainian Tomlinson seemingly in decline, San Diego could lean more heavily on the passing game. Rivers has the perimeter receivers, and TE Antonio Gates is healthy and could again be a difference-maker.

7. Donovan McNabb, Eagles. Contrary to those who think McNabb is on the decline, he set a personal career high in passing yards last year and the 23 touchdowns were his most since 2004. McNabb still has a strong, accurate arm, so this season looks promising. The line has been upgraded significantly, and potential impact players have been added at the skill positions.

8. Kurt Warner, Cardinals. Warner got paid in the offseason, and now he can focus on putting his quick release back to work in the Cardinals' explosive attack. It looks as though all the pieces will be back in '09, and as long as he stays healthy -- a bigger concern as he turns 38 in June -- another 4,000-yard, 30-touchdown season is within reach.

9. Eli Manning, Giants. Giants fans will be irked that Eli isn't ranked higher. But Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer are gone, and we're not sure he will have a go-to receiver in '09. If they are relying on rookie Hakeem Nicks, Manning is in trouble. Elite quarterbacks can carry teams on their back, but Manning failed last year when Burress and Brandon Jacobs got hurt. The Super Bowl 42 win was great, but this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.

10. Tony Romo, Cowboys. The Cowboys' plan to run more in '09 speaks to the strength of their running backs and the relative inexperience and lack of depth at wide receiver. It also raises a flag with regard to the coaches' confidence in Romo after an up-and-down '08 campaign. He will be on a short leash as Dallas looks to limit turnovers and costly errors.

11. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks. This team goes as Hasselbeck goes, and that was good until last year. He turns 34 in September and has a history of back and leg problems. His receiving corps, even with T.J. Houshmandzadeh, lacks an explosive weapon. Still, Hasselbeck has proven capable of raising the play of those around him, so we're holding out hope for '09.

12. Jay Cutler, Bears. Cutler has a big arm, a competitive spirit, plenty of mobility and a knack for making big plays. The Bears should have an improved offensive line and a strong running game, and Cutler will be motivated to prove himself after a turbulent offseason. The big question: Who's he throwing to? We like TE Greg Olsen, but Devin Hester is terribly inconsistent and there isn't much else.

13. Matt Ryan, Falcons. The '08 Offensive Rookie of the Year, Ryan has a strong, accurate arm and displays more maturity and intangibles than anyone could have expected. Ryan has the support of a strong running game, and the addition of All-Pro TE Tony Gonzalez will make him more effective in the short passing game. Ryan is off to a nice start, and he should continue to move up this list.

14. Aaron Rodgers, Packers. Rodgers was among the league's top passers in his first year as a starter, throwing for 4,038 yards, 28 touchdowns and just 13 interceptions and showing a tremendous amount of toughness by playing much of the season after separating his shoulder. The talk in Green Bay has been about the defense, but everyone except OT Mark Tauscher returns on offense and Rodgers is sure to improve in Year 2 as a starter.

15. Jake Delhomme, Panthers. Delhomme is a fiery, emotional leader who got his team to the playoffs in '08, but he then turned the ball over six times in Carolina's first playoff game. He also hasn't delivered a strong statistical season since '05. He is in decline, for sure, but has a strong line and a great running game. Panthers coach John Fox will try to get him back on track by asking him to just play within the system.

16. Joe Flacco, Ravens. Flacco has a big arm and certainly proved himself as a rookie, but he was protected by an elite defense and the AFC's No. 1 running game. The coaches gave Flacco conservative game plans to limit his mistakes, yet he still threw 12 interceptions (14 touchdowns) and struggled at times against aggressive, pressure defenses. There is plenty of room to improve.

17. Matt Schaub, Texans. When healthy, he can look like a top-10 QB. Schaub just hasn't been able to stay on the field. Since coming to Houston in '07, he has missed 10 games. Last season, he passed for 3,043 yards in just 11 games while completing 66.1 percent of his passes and putting up an 8-yard per attempt average. With a growing arsenal of weapons led by WR Andre Johnson and TE Owen Daniels and consistency in the coaching staff with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and line coach Alex Gibbs, Schaub could skyrocket up this list if able to stay healthy.

18. Jason Campbell, Redskins. Campbell struggled in Jim Zorn's West Coast offense last year, particularly in the second half of the season when he didn't post a 250-yard game. He also threw just five touchdown passes in that span. Redskins officials tried to trade for Cutler and trade up to draft Mark Sanchez in the offseason, so they don't believe Campbell can turn it around. He can be successful, however, in a system that takes advantage of his strong arm and athleticism.

19. Chad Pennington, Dolphins. We love Pennington. He's smart, deadly accurate, a natural leader and consummate pro and has a better arm than advertised. He made a run at NFL MVP honors last year by bringing the 1-15 Dolphins to the playoffs. With all that said, he has played only a full 16-game schedule three times in nine NFL seasons and it is only a matter of time before heir apparent Chad Henne gets a shot.

20. Matt Cassel, Chiefs. Cassel wildly exceeded expectations in New England last year, but a good portion of his success can be attributed to the Patriots' system. New coach Todd Haley certainly will play to Cassel's strengths, inserting him in a pass-first, shotgun-heavy attack. Smart coaching and a favorable system are enough to keep him on this list, but he will not be lining up behind Patriots' line or have Randy Moss and Wes Welker outside. And it remains to be seen whether RB Larry Johnson has anything left to offer.[/quote]




[url="http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=548865"]http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=548865[/url]
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[quote name='Randle P McMurphy' post='776896' date='May 17 2009, 08:13 PM']Ben's always played his best when it mattered the most since he entered the league.



You lost all creditability with the first article you posted. What was Ben's passer rating
in the Superbowl against the Seahawks? 20 something?

Seems to me it would matter the most in the Superbowl.[/quote]


What is Carsons Super Bowl rating? I forget.
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