Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='774533' date='May 7 2009, 11:07 PM']No torture. Kill them all. Point a gun at their heads, and if you don't get what you want to hear out of them, blow their fucking brains out. And even when you do get something out of them, blow their brains out anyway. Fuck them. Kill them all. Then pick the brain matter off the walls when you interrogate the next victim. Show it to them. Promise them if they comply that they will be free to go. And then kill them too, rinse, repeat. Fuck them all. Kill them all.[/quote] Thank you James Hetfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='774533' date='May 7 2009, 11:07 PM']No torture. Kill them all. Point a gun at their heads, and if you don't get what you want to hear out of them, blow their fucking brains out. And even when you do get something out of them, blow their brains out anyway. Fuck them. Kill them all. Then pick the brain matter off the walls when you interrogate the next victim. Show it to them. Promise them if they comply that they will be free to go. And then kill them too, rinse, repeat. Fuck them all. Kill them all.[/quote] Note to self: Don't piss off Bung... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I tell ya what, I'll be against torture as soon as they line these fuckers up and put bullets into their brains. Someone asked about stances on capital punishment.....I'm all for it so no, I have no conflicts with torturing someone. As for torture getting the information needed or not, who cares. Torture them anyway. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Fulcher_33' post='774578' date='May 8 2009, 03:17 AM']I tell ya what, I'll be against torture as soon as they line these fuckers up and put bullets into their brains. Someone asked about stances on capital punishment.....I'm all for it so no, I have no conflicts with torturing someone. As for torture getting the information needed or not, who cares. Torture them anyway. MULLY[/quote] The problem is this is what creates more terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengals Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Just in case anyone thinks this is a left/right or Republican/Democrat thing: [url="http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/intelligence-re.html"]http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/i...ligence-re.html[/url] [quote]Intelligence Report: Pelosi Briefed on Use of Interrogation Tactics in Sept. ’02 May 07, 2009 6:02 PM Klein_2ABC News’ Rick Klein reports: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was briefed on the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on terrorist suspect Abu Zubaydah in September 2002, according to a report prepared by the Director of National Intelligence’s office and obtained by ABC News. The report, submitted to the Senate Intelligence Committee and other Capitol Hill officials Wednesday, appears to contradict Pelosi’s statement last month that she was never told about the use of waterboarding or other special interrogation tactics. Instead, she has said, she was told only that the Bush administration had legal opinions that would have supported the use of such techniques. The report details a Sept. 4, 2002 meeting between intelligence officials and Pelosi, then-House intelligence committee chairman Porter Goss, and two aides. At the time, Pelosi was the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee. The meeting is described as a “Briefing on EITs including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background on authorities, and a description of particular EITs that had been employed.” EITs stand for “enhanced interrogation techniques,” a classification of special interrogation tactics that includes waterboarding. Pelosi, D-Calif., sharply disputed suggestions last month that she had been told about waterboarding having taken place. “In that or any other briefing . . . we were not, and I repeat, were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation techniques were used," Pelosi said at a news conference in April. "What they did tell us is that they had some legislative counsel . . . opinions that they could be used, but not that they would." Brendan Daly, a Pelosi spokesman, said Pelosi’s recollection of the meeting is different than the way it is described in the report from the DNI’s office. “The briefers described these techniques, said they were legal, but said that waterboarding had not yet been used,” Daly said. Daly pointed out that the report backs up Pelosi’s contention that she was briefed only once on “enhanced interrogation techniques.” Her name does not appear elsewhere in the report. "As this document shows, the speaker was briefed only once, in September 2002," Daly said. At the briefing, Pelosi did not formally register objections to the interrogation techniques authorized by the Bush administration. President Obama has said he considers such techniques to be "torture." According to the interrogation memos released last month by the Obama administration, Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002. UPDATE: The report also details dozens of other meetings with members of Congress -- though not with Pelosi present -- where the use of waterboarding and other interrogation techniques was described. The Senate intelligence committee’s chairman and ranking member, Bob Graham and Richard Shelby, were given a briefing similar to the one with Pelosi and Goss on Sept. 27, 2002, according to the report. On Feb. 4, 2003, a briefing on “enhanced interrogation techniques” for Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., and Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV, D-W.Va., revealed that interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and Abd Al-Rahim Al-Nashiri were taped. In addition, that briefing “described in considerable details” the techniques used, including “how the water board was used.” A similar briefing the following day included Goss and Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., who by that time had become the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, when Pelosi moved on to become minority leader. The report is accompanied by a letter from CIA Director Leon Panetta to intelligence committee leaders that describes the way it was compiled: “This letter presents the most thorough information we have on dates, locations, and names of all Members of Congress who were briefed by the CIA on enhanced interrogation techniques. This information, however, is drawn from the past files of the CIA and represents [memorandums for the record] completed at the time and notes that summarized the best recollections of those individuals. In the end, you and the Committee will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened. We can make the MFRs available at CIA for staff review.”[/quote] God I hate Pelosi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774584' date='May 8 2009, 08:06 AM']The problem is this is what creates more terrorism.[/quote] So does poverty... So does growing up in a household that teaches hatred of a race/country/religion. Lets say hypothetically that we really stop torturing completely... Then (while we really aren't waterboarding or anything) someone in custody says he was tortured... Even though he is lying, that will also cause more terrorism. There are a billion reasons people become terrorists, and I would argue that more are b/c of economic hardships and unemployment that are created from stories about us torturing people... As far as the question at hand, I haven't decided if I think waterboarding is torture or not. It isn't torture from the standpoint of what I consider torture, although I can see how it would be scary as fuck, and some could (and do) see it as a form of torture. It isn't as obvious as some people make it out to be though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774584' date='May 8 2009, 08:06 AM']The problem is this is what creates more terrorism.[/quote] So, now the waterboarding, which was only approved for use in 2002 is what causes terrorism... hmmm. Why did 9/11 occur? Or, the USS Cole? Blame us for them being terrorists... classic. While I don't necessarily condone torture (as I don't think it will get valuable information as someone will tell you anything to get you to stop) I don't think it generates any more terrorism... if we stopped whatever techniques we use to interrogate these people tomorrow we'll have just as many terrorists / camps / recruits joining as we had today. As far as waterboarding - isn't this done to our special ops teams during training? Opposed to torture... For capital punishment - you take a life, you lose you life (you made the decision). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='774752' date='May 8 2009, 02:30 PM']So, now the waterboarding, which was only approved for use in 2002 is what causes terrorism... hmmm. Why did 9/11 occur? Or, the USS Cole? Blame us for them being terrorists... classic. While I don't necessarily condone torture (as I don't think it will get valuable information as someone will tell you anything to get you to stop) I don't think it generates any more terrorism... if we stopped whatever techniques we use to interrogate these people tomorrow we'll have just as many terrorists / camps / recruits joining as we had today. As far as waterboarding - isn't this done to our special ops teams during training? Opposed to torture... For capital punishment - you take a life, you lose you life (you made the decision).[/quote] Don't forget the first attack on the WTC in 1993. And the seeds for the hatred breeding that terrorism were planted in 1953... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='bengalrick' post='774750' date='May 8 2009, 02:22 PM']So does poverty... So does growing up in a household that teaches hatred of a race/country/religion. Lets say hypothetically that we really stop torturing completely... Then (while we really aren't waterboarding or anything) someone in custody says he was tortured... Even though he is lying, that will also cause more terrorism. There are a billion reasons people become terrorists, and I would argue that more are b/c of economic hardships and unemployment that are created from stories about us torturing people... As far as the question at hand, I haven't decided if I think waterboarding is torture or not. It isn't torture from the standpoint of what I consider torture, although I can see how it would be scary as fuck, and some could (and do) see it as a form of torture. It isn't as obvious as some people make it out to be though.[/quote] You'll have to explain the poverty one to me as I dont see many African nations lining up to attack us. Anything that induces a persons fear for their lives is tourture. Waterboarding does this. Waterboarding is tourture. Sorry but it is that obvious. [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='774752' date='May 8 2009, 02:30 PM']So, now the waterboarding, which was only approved for use in 2002 is what causes terrorism... hmmm. Why did 9/11 occur? Or, the USS Cole? Blame us for them being terrorists... classic. While I don't necessarily condone torture (as I don't think it will get valuable information as someone will tell you anything to get you to stop) I don't think it generates any more terrorism... if we stopped whatever techniques we use to interrogate these people tomorrow we'll have just as many terrorists / camps / recruits joining as we had today. As far as waterboarding - isn't this done to our special ops teams during training? Opposed to torture... For capital punishment - you take a life, you lose you life (you made the decision).[/quote] MORE terrorism. Key word there. Did you miss the video of the FBI expert saying how it creates more terrorists? It is classic, because it's what those folks call blowback and I tend to believe experts in this field know what their talking about. Can you provide me with your experts saying the oppisiste or is that just your opinion and if its your opinion what do you base that off of? Waterboarding is done as a training excercise to prepare our soliders for what might happen to them. This does not mean we should be engaging in it. [quote name='Elflocko' post='774766' date='May 8 2009, 03:10 PM']Don't forget the first attack on the WTC in 1993. [color="#FF0000"]And the seeds for the hatred breeding that terrorism were planted in 1953...[/color][/quote] :shh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774775' date='May 8 2009, 03:35 PM']You'll have to explain the poverty one to me as I dont see many African nations lining up to attack us.[/quote] Sudan is on our terror list for countries... Somalia is known for both extreme poverty and terrorizing ships off their coast. Both are in Africa... you and I have had this discussion, when talking about immigration, that the best thing we could do for Mexico is to help them dig out of their poverty hole... Poverty is the number 1 cause of "terror" imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774775' date='May 8 2009, 03:35 PM']You'll have to explain the poverty one to me as I dont see many African nations lining up to attack us. Anything that induces a persons fear for their lives is tourture. Waterboarding does this. Waterboarding is tourture. Sorry but it is that obvious. MORE terrorism. Key word there. Did you miss the video of the FBI expert saying how it creates more terrorists? It is classic, because it's what those folks call blowback and I tend to believe experts in this field know what their talking about. Can you provide me with your experts saying the oppisiste or is that just your opinion and if its your opinion what do you base that off of? Waterboarding is done as a training excercise to prepare our soliders for what might happen to them. This does not mean we should be engaging in it. :shh:[/quote] more terrorism... like having terrorists around now, and them having offspring breeds MORE terrorism... Look, Jaime, I'm not disagreeing regarding torture, etc. as I'm patently against it. IMO, I don't think waterboarding, in and of itself, is. But I think the argument that these techniques generate "more terrorism" as in increasing the numbers / frequency is like taking a bucket of water and pouring into a river... it isn't measurable against the tide that already exists. How does this gentleman measure how much more, or how many more terrorists join up because of the interrogation techniques? Do you expect terrorism to stop if these techniques stop? And, if not, what else (waiting on the infinite list) do we need to do to end terrorism? Or, measurably, how much less terrorism / terrorist attacks will occur if these techniques stop? You, me, this FBI expert can't answer that because none of us know. We can't definitively say they increase it or decrease it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774775' date='May 8 2009, 03:35 PM']Did you miss the video of the FBI expert saying how it creates more terrorists? It is classic, because it's what those folks call blowback and I tend to believe experts in this field know what their talking about. Can you provide me with your experts saying the oppisiste or is that just your opinion and if its your opinion what do you base that off of? Waterboarding is done as a training excercise to prepare our soliders for what might happen to them. This does not mean we should be engaging in it.[/quote] I've never heard of an American soldier being waterboarded by our enemies... have you? They (Army) waterboard our guys because they want to find their breaking point, and similation of being drowned is the best way to do it, without causing long term damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='bengalrick' post='774779' date='May 8 2009, 03:47 PM']Sudan is on our terror list for countries... Somalia is known for both extreme poverty and terrorizing ships off their coast. Both are in Africa... you and I have had this discussion, when talking about immigration, that the best thing we could do for Mexico is to help them dig out of their poverty hole... Poverty is the number 1 cause of "terror" imo...[/quote] But you dismiss this as a cause? Interesting. [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='774780' date='May 8 2009, 03:49 PM']more terrorism... like having terrorists around now, and them having offspring breeds MORE terrorism... Look, Jaime, I'm not disagreeing regarding torture, etc. as I'm patently against it. IMO, I don't think waterboarding, in and of itself, is. But I think the argument that these techniques generate "more terrorism" as in increasing the numbers / frequency is like taking a bucket of water and pouring into a river... it isn't measurable against the tide that already exists. How does this gentleman measure how much more, or how many more terrorists join up because of the interrogation techniques? Do you expect terrorism to stop if these techniques stop? And, if not, what else (waiting on the infinite list) do we need to do to end terrorism? Or, measurably, how much less terrorism / terrorist attacks will occur if these techniques stop? You, me, this FBI expert can't answer that because none of us know. We can't definitively say they increase it or decrease it.[/quote] Who cares how much more? The point its still more. Stop? No you heard the man the damage is done. However depending on how things are handeled I think we can curb it. You will never completely stop it, its like the war on drugs. Its not a winnable war, but you can curb it. [quote name='bengalrick' post='774782' date='May 8 2009, 03:53 PM']I've never heard of an American soldier being waterboarded by our enemies... have you? They (Army) waterboard our guys because they want to find their breaking point, and similation of being drowned is the best way to do it, without causing long term damage.[/quote] So you make the distiction between military and FBI/CIA? I hope you dont think there should be one. Also this stuff happened in GITMO. Waterboarding for training purposes is one thing (and I imagine how we know it doesnt work) doing it on POWs in quite another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774786' date='May 8 2009, 04:03 PM']But you dismiss this as a cause? Interesting.[/quote] Not sure what you mean by this... Did i dismiss poverty as a cause? [quote]So you make the distiction between military and FBI/CIA? I hope you dont think there should be one. Also this stuff happened in GITMO. Waterboarding for training purposes is one thing (and I imagine how we know it doesnt work) doing it on POWs in quite another.[/quote] I didn't say that, nor mean that... I am saying that why is our armed forces waterboarding our soldiers for "getting them ready for what might happen to them" when neither you or I can provide one instance of this being done by our enemies to us... If we want to "prepare" them, we would have to do REAL torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='bengalrick' post='774788' date='May 8 2009, 04:08 PM']Not sure what you mean by this... Did i dismiss poverty as a cause? I didn't say that, nor mean that... I am saying that why is our armed forces waterboarding our soldiers for "getting them ready for what might happen to them" when neither you or I can provide one instance of this being done by our enemies to us... If we want to "prepare" them, [b]we would have to do REAL torture[/b].[/quote] Or saw their heads off, but you only get to do that once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='774797' date='May 8 2009, 04:25 PM']Or saw their heads off, but you only get to do that once...[/quote] true, but I was trying to not go there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 It seems like some people are down with torture because they don't give a fuck about our enemys. This a sentiment that I honestly don't really hate. If there are people that are my sworn enemy and reasonable means will not change their mind, as an evolutionary matter of self preservation I don't care if they are killed once this is established. I would prefer that they not be tortured in the mean time because I don't think we have to inflict unnecessary pain if we are going to kill them anyway, but I have no problem with them "going away" once its established that they will not change their mind (there is also a socio-economic variable to this because its not practical to keep all our enemies alive and incarcerated). The only problem is how can YOU say for certain that anyone is our enemy unless they were captured in combat (even then, how do we know he's not fighting because he is told his family will burn if he doesn't fight)? I think a lot of people are under the impression that the only guys we've done this too are guys who we captured red-handed with a gun in their hand trying to destroy America or its forces. When in reality we are pulling SUSPECTS out of their homes and interrogating them. Their is a reason for the term SUSPECT. That reason is when we identify someone as a culprit...we aren't 100% sure. How can we justify inhumane treatment of people who may not be guilty of anything? Just because the bad guys deserve it when we do get em even if some innocents get hurt in the process? I added the capital punishment question before and I'm okay with putting people to death because anyone who finds himself in that situation has been determined guilty through (hopefully) the most fair means we have. In the instance of torture we have a population of people who haven't been convicted of anything but yet we have determined they are guilty and hold information that we can extract by slowly killing them. That doesn't ring harmonious with me. To those who are ok with torture...are you ok with our troops getting tortured too? Are you okay with giving our government the credence if they deem necessary to pull you out of your house mid-dinner and near drown you or rip your finger nails out one by one while you scream that you know nothing about (insert your family's country of origin here)'s plan to attack our country? I don't see how one could rationally say no they are not okay to giving the government the right to pull you out and torture you if they're info was bad...but its okay for someone else. The problem with torture is that it is based on info and not convictions. And the quality of the info is never even known to the public. Our court process isn't perfect but its better than relying on situational information to determine guilt or knowledge of a certain situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='bengalrick' post='774788' date='May 8 2009, 04:08 PM']Not sure what you mean by this... Did i dismiss poverty as a cause? I didn't say that, nor mean that... I am saying that why is our armed forces waterboarding our soldiers for "getting them ready for what might happen to them" when neither you or I can provide one instance of this being done by our enemies to us... If we want to "prepare" them, we would have to do REAL torture.[/quote] No you dismissed waterboarding as a cause. Ok got you now, I thought you were saying something else. [quote name='Elflocko' post='774797' date='May 8 2009, 04:25 PM']Or saw their heads off, but you only get to do that once...[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Jamie... I think that torturing people certainly hurts the cause and does create more terrorists, among other things. I am not certain personally if I consider waterboarding torture, but I do think that people that are certain of that would be more inclined to get pissed and in effect cause more terrorism. I am not dismissing it, but I think that poverty is more of a problem. Only because if Terrorist "X" is unemployed AND pissed, he is going to actually do something about it. If the same guy is working and pissed, he is just pissed but not necessarily acting on it. Sorry if it seemed like I was dismissing.. I was only saying i feel like that is one of many things that cause it, and imo not the most important factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 [quote name='bengalrick' post='774811' date='May 8 2009, 06:02 PM']Jamie... I think that torturing people certainly hurts the cause and does create more terrorists, among other things. I am not certain personally if I consider waterboarding torture, but I do think that people that are certain of that would be more inclined to get pissed and in effect cause more terrorism. I am not dismissing it, but I think that poverty is more of a problem. Only because if Terrorist "X" is unemployed AND pissed, he is going to actually do something about it. If the same guy is working and pissed, he is just pissed but not necessarily acting on it. Sorry if it seemed like I was dismissing.. I was only saying i feel like that is one of many things that cause it, and imo not the most important factor.[/quote] I dont disagree that poverty is an issue, but poverty as it relates to terrorism isnt the issue being discussed in this thread. We are certanly able to discuss it, but I was speaking on waterboarding as tourture and how tourture doesnt work and how it only creates more terrorosim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='774584' date='May 8 2009, 09:06 PM']The problem is this is what creates more terrorism.[/quote] Yeah, our torture techniques are the reason behind the terrorism. Jamie, please tell me that you don't honestly believe that if we play nice that they will begin to like us more. Jesus, that is naive. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='774804' date='May 8 2009, 03:08 PM']The only problem is how can YOU say for certain that anyone is our enemy unless they were captured in combat (even then, how do we know he's not fighting because he is told his family will burn if he doesn't fight)?[/quote] I don't particularly care much if a terrorist was forced into strapping bombs onto himself and ordered to kill some Americans or Jews or whomever on the threat of death to his family, because there is no way to mitigate that without killing the guy before he can carry out his orders, whether he wants to or not. He may think he is sparing his family; catching and/or killing him before he can pull off his act is more important to me. I do feel bad that there are apparently people evil enough out there to force what are (allegedly) innocent other people to carry out what amount to cowardly attacks that the instigators are not willing to carry out themselves, but much like a grenade strapped child in Vietnam approaching your soldiers, you have to shoot them. It's sad, but what else are you supposed to do in [i]that particular situation[/i]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='774852' date='May 9 2009, 10:50 AM']I don't particularly care much if a terrorist was forced into strapping bombs onto himself and ordered to kill some Americans or Jews or whomever on the threat of death to his family, because there is no way to mitigate that without killing the guy before he can carry out his orders, whether he wants to or not. He may think he is sparing his family; catching and/or killing him before he can pull off his act is more important to me. I do feel bad that there are apparently people evil enough out there to force what are (allegedly) innocent other people to carry out what amount to cowardly attacks that the instigators are not willing to carry out themselves, but much like a grenade strapped child in Vietnam approaching your soldiers, you have to shoot them. It's sad, [color="#FF0000"]but what else are you supposed to do in [i]that particular situation[/i]?[/color][/quote] Well, the libs would tell you that you have to hug them and give them a kiss on the forehead so they'll change their ways. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='774852' date='May 8 2009, 09:50 PM']I don't particularly care much if a terrorist was forced into strapping bombs onto himself and ordered to kill some Americans or Jews or whomever on the threat of death to his family, because there is no way to mitigate that without killing the guy before he can carry out his orders, whether he wants to or not. He may think he is sparing his family; catching and/or killing him before he can pull off his act is more important to me. I do feel bad that there are apparently people evil enough out there to force what are (allegedly) innocent other people to carry out what amount to cowardly attacks that the instigators are not willing to carry out themselves, but much like a grenade strapped child in Vietnam approaching your soldiers, you have to shoot them. It's sad, but what else are you supposed to do in [i]that particular situation[/i]?[/quote] I think the more important part of what I said is "how can you be sure that someone is the enemy." Unless captured in battle we'd be basing our decision to torture on intelligence which has proven to be less than accurate sometimes (WMD in Iraq?). Believe me I don't want our troops reasoning with a guy whose has a bomb strapped to his chest, but rather doing anything necessary to make sure that bomb doesn't go off. The crux of the matter is torture does not elicit reliable information and torture just because we hate them, not only brings us down to their ignorant level but leaves open the possibility that you are torturing people who don't deserve it, and when you're not getting anything out of it besides the pleasure of watching someone suffer, it becomes a big deal. If reliable information could be obtained regularly, one could argue that this is collateral damage and I'd probably be ok with it. Plus blatant mistreatment of POWs will only add unnecessary risk to our troops who are already in enough danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 [quote name='Fulcher_33' post='774847' date='May 8 2009, 09:03 PM']Yeah, our torture techniques are the reason behind the terrorism. Jamie, please tell me that you don't honestly believe that if we play nice that they will begin to like us more. Jesus, that is naive. MULLY[/quote] Have I missed the boat here or do people think they actually know more than experts in this field who have said such things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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