Jason Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 It seems like every Reds ace has a few good years, then inexplicably loses it. It happened to Soto. It happened to Rijo. Has it happened to Aaron? And like it did with Soto, it looks like it's happening with Harang just when the Reds are starting to ge good. Or, is he just going through a tough stretch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 This has been a pretty damn long rough stretch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 It was absolutely stupid to bring him out after a 2 hour rain delay for a win. Thats probably not the factor..but it seems like his fastball doesn't fool anyone. It's about 93 MPH and just have no break or slice at all really. His location seems poor and he relies a lot on hitting his corners with his fastball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Harang hasnt pitched that effective over a long stretch since Baker used him for that 4 inning relief stint and came back with him a few days later last year... Pitching him after a 2 hour delay was ignorant as well... Is he the same pitcher as a couple years ago? no but he can still be an effective number 3 in the rotation giving them 13 -14 wins....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I can understand where you're coming from but why after tonights game? He went 8 innings and gave up 3 runs to a first place team on the road. All 3 runs scored courtesy of Pujols who might just be the best player in all of baseball. Harang just so happened to get matched up against carpenter who saw far this year has been virtually unhittable (4-0 0.71 ERA). Thats pretty good. Last night they score 9 and tonight they score 1, thats not Harangs fault. If im not mistaken he's near the bottom of the list in run support whereas Arroyo is much much higher on the list and his ERA is over a full run higher. But, the offense scores when he pitches for whatever reason and nobody complains because he got the win. If Harang had pitched last night he would have gotten the win and we would all be praising his performance. Going 8 and only giving up 3 to the Cardinals in St. Louis!! Vintage Harang right there. Like I said I understand where you're coming from, but not after tonights game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='BengalRep85-9' post='780648' date='Jun 5 2009, 12:46 AM']I can understand where you're coming from but why after tonights game? He went 8 innings and gave up 3 runs to a first place team on the road. All 3 runs scored courtesy of Pujols who might just be the best player in all of baseball. Harang just so happened to get matched up against carpenter who saw far this year has been virtually unhittable (4-0 0.71 ERA). Thats pretty good. Last night they score 9 and tonight they score 1, thats not Harangs fault. If im not mistaken he's near the bottom of the list in run support whereas Arroyo is much much higher on the list and his ERA is over a full run higher. But, the offense scores when he pitches for whatever reason and nobody complains because he got the win. If Harang had pitched last night he would have gotten the win and we would all be praising his performance. Going 8 and only giving up 3 to the Cardinals in St. Louis!! Vintage Harang right there. Like I said I understand where you're coming from, but not after tonights game.[/quote] I started the thread early in the game. And like Brantley was saying, it's not so much about the results. You can pitch poorly and still have good results from time to time. He isn't throwing the same quality of pitches as he used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I don't really think he's lost it. I think for the most part, its the way the ball's been bouncing. Harang, even when he'd throw complete games, has always been a pitcher that gives up a lot of hits whether he's giving up 0 runs or 5. The ball's just not bouncing his way as much these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 His command is what has been lacking in some of his starts. Last night he missed his spots against Pujols and Pujols made him pay. You can't afford to do that against a good hitter like Pujols. Overall his start last night was much better than the previous 2 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creechnasty Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='BengalRep85-9' post='780648' date='Jun 5 2009, 01:46 AM']I can understand where you're coming from but why after tonights game? He went 8 innings and gave up 3 runs to a first place team on the road. All 3 runs scored courtesy of Pujols who might just be the best player in all of baseball. Harang just so happened to get matched up against carpenter who saw far this year has been virtually unhittable (4-0 0.71 ERA). Thats pretty good. Last night they score 9 and tonight they score 1, thats not Harangs fault. [b]If im not mistaken he's near the bottom of the list in run support[/b] whereas Arroyo is much much higher on the list and his ERA is over a full run higher. But, the offense scores when he pitches for whatever reason and nobody complains because he got the win. If Harang had pitched last night he would have gotten the win and we would all be praising his performance. Going 8 and only giving up 3 to the Cardinals in St. Louis!! Vintage Harang right there. Like I said I understand where you're coming from, but not after tonights game.[/quote] DING DING DING! Me and a buddy of mine have been talking about this since last season, it seems ever time Harang pitches the red lose like 2-0 or 3-1 but when Bronson pitches it they'll win from anything like 7-5 or 14-9. If I was Harang I'd be SOOO pissed. Of course every once in a while he gets BLOWN UP but that's to be expected in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 havent had an issue with him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Looking at Harangs career stats ,nothing seems to point toward him losing it. I think he is a very weak, so called ace to begin with. Also , not to throw this thread off track from your original point Jason ,but Rijo's stint here was pretty darn dominant up until that bad elbow injury that was pretty much the end for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Harang's problem has always been the same. He tries to get ahead of hitters with first pitch fastballs and aggressive teams know it and can take advantage. Just look at the stats: 2009 ERA with 0-0 Count: 27.00 Career ERA with 0-0 Count: 37.81 That pretty much says it all. What I'd like to know is how Dick Pole can't recognize this and get Harang to change things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 7.2 scoreless innings from Harang last night. Might have been different if it was a GABP instead of the Nationals park, but Harang pitched to the park he was in and was in line for the win until Cordero blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 his mechanics are off if you watch his delivery. i wish our pitching coach didnt blow ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='31 July 2009 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1249080297' post='787438'] i wish our pitching coach didnt blow ass. [/quote] Or smoke poles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Did he really have much to begin with? He had one good season, maybe two and has sucked ever since. It's hilarious to me when I hear people on the radio blaming Dusty for putting him in the San Diego marathon last year and putting him in after a long rain delay this season. You're going to blame his combined 10-30 record on two adverse outings over two seasons? And I agree that you can blame dickpole to an extent for the Reds pitchers' collective shortcomings, but 10-30 is a lot of blowing ass to blame on the pitching coach or the manager for the sabotage of his career by making him pitch a couple extra innings off-schedule which Harang never recovered from. Even though he sucked ass up to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='Hooky' date='06 August 2009 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1249561755' post='788575'] Did he really have much to begin with? He had one good season, maybe two and has sucked ever since. It's hilarious to me when I hear people on the radio blaming Dusty for putting him in the San Diego marathon last year and putting him in after a long rain delay this season. You're going to blame his combined 10-30 record on two adverse outings over two seasons? And I agree that you can blame dickpole to an extent for the Reds pitchers' collective shortcomings, but 10-30 is a lot of blowing ass to blame on the pitching coach or the manager for the sabotage of his career by making him pitch a couple extra innings off-schedule which Harang never recovered from. Even though he sucked ass up to that point. [/quote] i like people who talk about records because it is kind of like going full retard. give harang anywhere near the run support arroyo has had the past few years and harang would EASILY be over 500. Harang has a ton of stuff and has been a legit SP his entire time in cincinnati. He was ace material for a couple of seasons. he still has it, but his delivery mechanics are off and if he went to a team with a good pitching coach he would be crazy good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Aaron certainly looked good today. If he can keep his mechanics in order he can get back to being a solid to very good pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Harangs mechanics were MUCH improved today. he also had higher velocity and more movement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='09 August 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1249870877' post='789399'] Harangs mechanics were MUCH improved today. he also had higher velocity and more movement too. [/quote] I think those things might be related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='06 August 2009 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1249611364' post='788749'] i like people who talk about records because it is kind of like going full retard. give harang anywhere near the run support arroyo has had the past few years and harang would EASILY be over 500. Harang has a ton of stuff and has been a legit SP his entire time in cincinnati. He was ace material for a couple of seasons. he still has it, but his delivery mechanics are off and if he went to a team with a good pitching coach he would be crazy good again. [/quote] Ahh, the "You're retarded." defense. Yeah, why use records and stats when you can make generalizations and what ifs and blame everybody else. Asshole. It's not like he's slightly under .500 in the last 2 years, then your excuses might hold water. Have you considered that he might have something to do with the lack of run support? It doesn't exactly make it easy on the hitters when their pitcher puts them in a 3-0 hole before they even get to the plate in most outings. What is his 1st inning ERA? Explain to me why the Reds hitters consistently hit well for one pitcher and not another. Is it because, as the Reds ace, Harang is lining up against the opposing team's ace? Harang can't match up with the other aces of the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='Hooky' date='10 August 2009 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1249906785' post='789429'] Ahh, the "You're retarded." defense. Yeah, why use records and stats when you can make generalizations and what ifs and blame everybody else. Asshole. It's not like he's slightly under .500 in the last 2 years, then your excuses might hold water. Have you considered that he might have something to do with the lack of run support? It doesn't exactly make it easy on the hitters when their pitcher puts them in a 3-0 hole before they even get to the plate in most outings. What is his 1st inning ERA? Explain to me why the Reds hitters consistently hit well for one pitcher and not another. Is it because, as the Reds ace, Harang is lining up against the opposing team's ace? Harang can't match up with the other aces of the league? [/quote] plz give me inning ERAs because i GUARANTEE you arroyos 1st inning era is WAY higher than harang and arroyo gets WAY more run support. you dont have a clue what the fuck you are talking about. [quote name='Jason' date='09 August 2009 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1249871374' post='789402'] I think those things might be related. [/quote] i have said as such before. i knew of 3 specific things harang was doing wrong in his delivery and all 3 would lead to leaving balls high, cutting movement and decreasing velocity which he suffered from badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Harang has looked better since making the adjustments. His fastball is now 90-95 mph instead of 88-90 mph and his slider has more sharp break. My only question is why did it take so long for him and the Reds to make the adjustment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 [quote name='CTA513' date='10 August 2009 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1249953035' post='789661'] Harang has looked better since making the adjustments. His fastball is now 90-95 mph instead of 88-90 mph and his slider has more sharp break. My only question is why did it take so long for him and the Reds to make the adjustment? [/quote] dick pole is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='10 August 2009 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1249957660' post='789681'] dick pole is terrible. [/quote] You are the expert. I don't know what I'm talking about. I see a 12-30 record and 5 ERA and I think crappy. But myself and all of the scouts for the other teams that had a chance to pick him up aren't as smart as you and we don't know that he's just a minor tweak, good pitching coach and some run support away from being a Cy Young. We just see him as a colossal waste of 12 million dollars a year. But if making excuses is how you want to swallow that 12 mil a year instead of admitting that he sucks and the Reds are stuck with him, that's fine. You can always call me an asshole and/or a retard again if it makes you feel better. It wouldn't make Harang pitch any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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