Jeb Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 AC is purported to be solid at pass blocking but needs to get better in the running game. The knock on Smith is his pass blocking skill but his running game is supposedly lethal. Too bad we can't splice two players together to get the best of both but it is what it is and both need to work on their respective weakness. I think Smith might be starting game 6. It will take a while to learn the tricks he'll see in the NFL and in the pass rush. IMO, its actually easier for Collins to overcome his weakness. There is always a chance Collins becomes dominant enough that they won't want to move him from the starting spot. That's a good problem to have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccartman2 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'd imagine we will see some of Smith even if he isn't starting, especially in obvious running situations. 1st and goal from the 1, late in games when we are up big. It will probably be smart to bring him along slowly. Still, I'll go with week 8 when he takes the Starting role provide Whit and Collins stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'd like to see Collins and Smith on the field at the same time as IMO they're among the 4 best OL, aside from the center position, that are on the roster currently. Collins at LT, Whit at LG, Cook at C, Bobbie at RG and Smith at RT maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Week 4 vs Cleveland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think the order of importance to this team is: 1. Pass blocking 2. Run blocking Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think Andre will see time as a "blocking TE" fairly early on. My guess is he's starting after the Bye week. And while Andre's strength is his run blocking, he's not a bad pass blocker at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='Jason' date='31 August 2009 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1251728091' post='796585'] I think Andre will see time as a "blocking TE" fairly early on. My guess is he's starting after the Bye week. And while Andre's strength is his run blocking, [b]he's not a bad pass blocker at all.[/b] [/quote] True. But this is the NFL and he's going to be up against the "cream of the crop" of rushers and see tricks he's never seen before in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='IKOTA' date='31 August 2009 - 10:48 AM' timestamp='1251726501' post='796580'] I'd like to see Collins and Smith on the field at the same time as IMO they're among the 4 best OL, aside from the center position, that are on the roster currently. Collins at LT, Whit at LG, Cook at C, Bobbie at RG and Smith at RT maybe? [/quote] While I agree that Collins probably has more talent than Livings, I wouldn't want to start moving a bunch of guys around. Continuity is important and I'd like to keep Whit at LT for the next 5 years or so. I think sometime in the next 4-8 weeks Andre will pass Collins at RT. At that point, I think Collins just becomes a super sub backing up both LT and RT. That is an important role and I think Collins will be good at it. Still good value for a 4th round pick not making much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='31 August 2009 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1251727324' post='796583'] I think the order of importance to this team is: 1. Pass blocking 2. Run blocking Am I wrong? [/quote] I don't know if your right or wrong. However, running the football makes protecting the QB easier. I don't think they are seperate skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 IMO, if Smith forces the issue meaning he's just too good to keep on the bench. My vote would be not to mess with the tackle spots and see if Andre can be placed at LG. They are chasing the Pitt and Balt. IMO, you've got to the talent on the field even if it means rushing them from an experience stand point. Ultimately you've got to your best 5 out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='happyrid' date='31 August 2009 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1251729048' post='796588'] While I agree that Collins probably has more talent than Livings, I wouldn't want to start moving a bunch of guys around. Continuity is important and I'd like to keep Whit at LT for the next 5 years or so. I think sometime in the next 4-8 weeks Andre will pass Collins at RT. At that point, I think Collins just becomes a super sub backing up both LT and RT. That is an important role and I think Collins will be good at it. Still good value for a 4th round pick not making much money. [/quote] I agree about not wanting to move guys around and continuity being an important factor in the success of an online, but it's not like Collins and Whit would be moving to unfamiliar territory. They've played LT and LG respectively, most of their careers. I don't think it would be a major transition at all. Im of the opinion that the line would be better with Collins at LT and Whit at LG than what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whodeyman Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='IKOTA' date='31 August 2009 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1251729755' post='796592'] I agree about not wanting to move guys around and continuity being an important factor in the success of an online, but it's not like Collins and Whit would be moving to unfamiliar territory. They've played LT and LG respectively, most of their careers. I don't think it would be a major transition at all. Im of the opinion that the line would be better with Collins at LT and Whit at LG than what we currently have. [/quote] I agree with this. I think that is the strongest line we can put out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehardbengalfan Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think it's going to come down to wins and losses. If we're winning they'll take their time with Andre, but if we start off losing games because we can't run the ball to sustain drives or keep our opponents offense off the field then the switch will come early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='31 August 2009 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1251725929' post='796577'] AC is purported to be solid at pass blocking but needs to get better in the running game. The knock on Smith is his pass blocking skill but his running game is supposedly lethal. Too bad we can't splice two players together to get the best of both but it is what it is and both need to work on their respective weakness. I think Smith might be starting game 6. It will take a while to learn the tricks he'll see in the NFL and in the pass rush. IMO, its actually easier for Collins to overcome his weakness. There is always a chance Collins becomes dominant enough that they won't want to move him from the starting spot. That's a good problem to have! [/quote] who's knocking Smith's pass blocking? The consensus seems to be that he's a better run blocker, not that he is a bad pass blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='happyrid' date='31 August 2009 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1251729048' post='796588'] While I agree that Collins probably has more talent than Livings, I wouldn't want to start moving a bunch of guys around. Continuity is important and I'd like to keep Whit at LT for the next 5 years or so. I think sometime in the next 4-8 weeks Andre will pass Collins at RT. [b]At that point, I think Collins just becomes a super sub backing up both LT and RT. That is an important role and I think Collins will be good at it. Still good value for a 4th round pick not making much money.[/b] [/quote] x2 though I think he'll be first off the bench at LG or RG too. Longterm, I think Collins will be a starter on the line, with us drafting/signing a new versatile backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll be disappointed if we don't see 3 OT sets every now and then like the Raven's ran last year. Bringing Smith in, overloading one side of the line and just running the ball down peoples throats. As much catching up as he has to do, its foolish to think he can't contribute in certain spots from week 2 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='31 August 2009 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1251737659' post='796614'] I'll be disappointed if we don't see 3 OT sets every now and then like the Raven's ran last year. Bringing Smith in, overloading one side of the line and just running the ball down peoples throats. As much catching up as he has to do, its foolish to think he can't contribute in certain spots from week 2 on. [/quote] I'd love to see this. Especially against your weaker D's like Denver, Oakland, KC and Cleveland. Eats clock, keeps Palmer clean. It also masks our problems at TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 who knows how long it will take him to develop to that status, but i think we all know it's just a matter of time. there was a reason why smith was long considered the top tackle and possibly the top overall pick in the draft. his falling to the #6 pick had a lot to do with poor decision making. just like there was a reason why collins lasted until the 4th round and was the 13th overall tackle selection last year. i'd be surprised if it lasted any longer than mid way through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='IKOTA' date='31 August 2009 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1251729755' post='796592'] I agree about not wanting to move guys around and continuity being an important factor in the success of an online, but it's not like Collins and Whit would be moving to unfamiliar territory. They've played LT and LG respectively, most of their careers. I don't think it would be a major transition at all. Im of the opinion that the line would be better with Collins at LT and Whit at LG than what we currently have. [/quote] I think your case would be a lot stronger if Andre Smith would have signed on time. However, I think we all agree that Andre isn't going to be ready by game 1. So what we are really talking about is 4 games or 6 games or whatever into the season, making the switch. I guess I am assuming that through 4 preseason games and however many regular season games, the line has developed a bit of chemistry. I'm fine with breaking up that chemistry a little by inserting Smith instead of Collins if he has shown to be a better player. But, to move 3 guys all at the same time mid-season seems to me to be a bit too drastic of a move. That is my opinion as of right now, however, like anything else, its subject to change. Like if Nate Livings just can't handle things as a starter and/or if Whit is struggling at LT. Then it might make sense to do wholesale changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='scharm' date='31 August 2009 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1251729102' post='796589'] I don't know if your right or wrong. However, running the football makes protecting the QB easier. I don't think they are seperate skills. [/quote] Whereas I agree with you. I believe Brat likes to air it out more with Carson behind the helm. Sometimes I don't believe he can control himself from putting it in the air. I think he just likes to watch Carson throw just as much as the rest of us. IMO, when Carson is running the offense, I believe the balance tilts in favor of the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' date='31 August 2009 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1251737202' post='796609'] who's knocking Smith's pass blocking? The consensus seems to be that he's a better run blocker, not that he is a bad pass blocker. [/quote] Poor choice of words I guess but I was in a rush. The coaches feel both players need to work on their respective areas of perceived weakness but aren't worried about either player. Its pretty even in that respect. In other words, their weaknesses aren't that bad but need a little work to tighten up their game for both players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 "Imagines a toss play to the right with Bobbie, Collins, and Andre plowing the way with Jeremi as the lead blocker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 [quote name='scharm' date='31 August 2009 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1251729268' post='796590'] IMO, if Smith forces the issue meaning he's just too good to keep on the bench. My vote would be not to mess with the tackle spots and see if Andre can be placed at LG. They are chasing the Pitt and Balt. IMO, you've got to the talent on the field even if it means rushing them from an experience stand point. Ultimately you've got to your best 5 out there. [/quote] Fair enough. I doubt whether soP will want to pay all those millions for a LG...but if you are getting production with the tackles the way they are, it would be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='31 August 2009 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1251737659' post='796614'] I'll be disappointed if we don't see 3 OT sets every now and then like the Raven's ran last year. Bringing Smith in, overloading one side of the line and just running the ball down peoples throats. As much catching up as he has to do, its foolish to think he can't contribute in certain spots from week 2 on. [/quote] we have done this for years.. why wouldnt we now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I would expect him to officially start after the bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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