Bengals1181 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='19 September 2009 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1253408623' post='804149'] well in recent years OSUs last one is 2002. USCs is 2003 (split) and 2004. So USC wins that one too. [/quote] lol the only people who count 2003 as a USC national championship is USC fans. LSU won it on the field. Why wasn't USC playing in that game? Because they lost an early season game, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 well i went to UC and my brother played football for them and went to Detroit Motor City Bowl. so it was basically a givin. plus not being from Ohio i never cared for OSU but don't get me wrong, i don't go out of my way not to root for them. i rooted for them in the Bowl games for sure. but i prefer to watch UC all day, football and basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' date='19 September 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1253408943' post='804153'] only in the fictional ranking system week in and week out does it matter who you lose to, its reality USC beating osu in their house kinda of overshadows them losing to almost anyone ranked lower than OSU, cause they beat osu, so they are no matter what, better than them. both teams ahve the same record, and one beat the other.. in your minds system of coaching, OSU/Tresseellll are better than USC/Carol... osu lost to #3 and USC lost to whomever.. problem is.. USC/Carol beat OSU in OSU's house. OSU also almost lost to Navy.... not much difference in the twos resumes... and you act as if no one brings up USC's downfalls to low ranked teams.. its mentinoed every year and when it happens its talked about for a week. what else would you like to happen? they ignore him winning bowl games because he lost to Washington 3 months prior? your gripe doesnt add up. you just seem scorned.. i dont know if you an OSU or USC fan, but either way the point is lost in some sort of delusional fog. and the knock on sweater vest is that he wins in the big team and gets owned by other better conferences... and USC has donkey punched the buckeyes a few years in a row.. any argument in support of OSU/USO coach OVER USC and their coach seems like a silly one. what leg is there to stand on comparing the two teams and coaches when one has beat the other twice straight at home and on the road.. its pretty clear cut. USC > OSU Carol > Sweater Vest the proof is in the head to head results... [/quote] Part of coaching at big time football schools in college is winning games against bad teams as much as it is about winning the big game. In the NCAA you cant afford to lose more then 1 game, and sometimes even losing one is too much. Therefore you have to win every game you are supposed to. USC losing 6 games in 4 years to unranked teams is a big deal and if i was a USC fan i would be pissed. If you wanna be a great coach/great team you cant lose those games. USC loses games like this, go on and make the rose bowl and then win it. Good for them. But winning the rose bowl most years for USC should feel like they are settling, especially when they would be playing for National championships if it werent for losses to bad teams. Im not trying to compare one team to the other. All im saying is Pete Carroll cant be a great coach when he loses so many games like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 In 2006, 2007, and 2008 USC could have been in the National Championship game if it werent for losing to an unranked team. So great in all three years they went on to win the rose bowl, but they were settling. If they had good coaching for all 12 or 13 games they played they would have beat the unranked teams made it to the national championship and then had the chance to win one. Instead they lose to bad teams and never have the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='19 September 2009 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1253406674' post='804134'] you are actually trying to turn USCs loss into a positive for OSU even though USC achieves more than OSU every year. it is kind of pathetic. [/quote] Every year?? Losing the National Championship game trumps winning some other bowl game. That gives OSU at least 2 years out of the last 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bgal' date='19 September 2009 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1253410188' post='804166'] Every year?? [b]Losing the National Championship game trumps winning some other bowl game.[/b] That gives OSU at least 2 years out of the last 5. [/quote] not according to thurman. he thinks losing to stanford then winning the rose bell is better then making the nc and losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' date='19 September 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1253408943' post='804153'] only in the fictional ranking system week in and week out does it matter who you lose to, its reality USC beating osu in their house kinda of overshadows them losing to almost anyone ranked lower than OSU, cause they beat osu, so they are no matter what, better than them. both teams ahve the same record, and one beat the other.. in your minds system of coaching, OSU/Tresseellll are better than USC/Carol... osu lost to #3 and USC lost to whomever.. problem is.. USC/Carol beat OSU in OSU's house. OSU also almost lost to Navy.... not much difference in the twos resumes... and you act as if no one brings up USC's downfalls to low ranked teams.. its mentinoed every year and when it happens its talked about for a week. what else would you like to happen? they ignore him winning bowl games because he lost to Washington 3 months prior? your gripe doesnt add up. you just seem scorned.. i dont know if you an OSU or USC fan, but either way the point is lost in some sort of delusional fog. and the knock on sweater vest is that he wins in the big team and gets owned by other better conferences... and USC has donkey punched the buckeyes a few years in a row.. any argument in support of OSU/USO coach OVER USC and their coach seems like a silly one. what leg is there to stand on comparing the two teams and coaches when one has beat the other twice straight at home and on the road.. its pretty clear cut. USC > OSU Carol > Sweater Vest the proof is in the head to head results... [/quote] Why do you constantly create new lines? Paragraphs are good things, they take up less room and are easier to read. Honestly, OSU and USC are very similar teams. They are both highly successful and have lots of national championship game history. Both teams have good coaches. Both teams are strongly hated and take a lot of shit, even from fans of teams that haven't even sniffed a bowl game in years. Hell, even this last game was very close and could have went either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 September 2009 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1253409133' post='804157'] lol the only people who count 2003 as a USC national championship is USC fans. LSU won it on the field. Why wasn't USC playing in that game? Because they lost an early season game, again. [/quote] i hate USC, but USC was awarded the AP national championship and LSU the BCS national championship. And the teams were going to play to determine the true # 1 but the NCAA nixed it. they were called the split national champions. you can buy merchandise for both. it is stupid but it is true. and either way i told you that 2003 doesnt have to be counted because they still won it in 2004.[quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='19 September 2009 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1253410358' post='804167'] not according to thurman. he thinks losing to stanford then winning the rose bell is better then making the nc and losing [/quote] i would MUCH rather win a BCS bowl game than lose the BCS national championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I bet most of you OSU fans would be happier if the buckeyes could win games against good teams while losing occasionally to mediocre / bad teams, compared to what they currently do, i.e. run with flying colors through the Youngstown States of the world but lose - badly, usually - to any quality or elite opponent. This is the fundamental flaw with the rankings system - a team's resume should be defined by the quality wins it has to its name; instead, it is effectively determined by the number of losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='20 September 2009 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1253423715' post='804190'] i would MUCH rather win a BCS bowl game than lose the BCS national championship game. [/quote] Tell that to all the teams that bitch that they don't get in each year. Tell them it's okay, just win your bowl game... it's better!!! OSU has numerous bowl game victories and some very painful National Championship game losses. I'll take the National Championship game every single fucking year. It means they had a very good regular season and they were given the opportunity to win the real prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bengal Migration| Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bgal' date='20 September 2009 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1253435289' post='804200'] Tell that to all the teams that bitch that they don't get in each year. Tell them it's okay, just win your bowl game... it's better!!! OSU has numerous bowl game victories and some very painful National Championship game losses. I'll take the National Championship game every single fucking year. It means they had a very good regular season and they were given the opportunity to win the real prize. [/quote] x100000000 There is only one bowl game where victory or defeat actually matters. And OSU has played in that bowl game 3 out of 7 seasons. For every team not playing in the BCS title game, their bowl game is a chance to put a bit of shine on a turd. To end their season on a good note, even though they didn't earn the right to play for the National Championship. While I'd much prefer to win one of those games than lose it, I'd much rather have my team playing for the big enchilada. OSU might have fallen short of #1 their last 2 times playing for the title, but they were still one of only 2 teams in the country who earned that right. Regardless of whether or not other teams won their bowl games, their overall season was not as successful as those who played for the championship. Only an idiot would pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Go Tory Go!' date='20 September 2009 - 04:15 AM' timestamp='1253430909' post='804197'] [b]I bet most of you OSU fans would be happier if the buckeyes could win games against good teams while losing occasionally to mediocre / bad teams, [/b]compared to what they currently do, i.e. run with flying colors through the Youngstown States of the world but lose - badly, usually - to any quality or elite opponent. This is the fundamental flaw with the rankings system - a team's resume should be defined by the quality wins it has to its name; instead, it is effectively determined by the number of losses. [/quote] I'd prefer they not lose to anyone, but if they are going to lose, I'd prefer it be to the teams they've been losing to. And I won't comment on your shot at their schedule, while teams like Florida are playing Florida A&M and FIU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' date='20 September 2009 - 09:14 AM' timestamp='1253452471' post='804224'] I'd prefer they not lose to anyone, but if they are going to lose, I'd prefer it be to the teams they've been losing to. And I won't comment on your shot at their schedule, while teams like Florida are playing Florida A&M and FIU. [/quote] ya but then florida plays a tough conference schedule because the SEC is actually good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='20 September 2009 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1253459746' post='804260'] ya but then florida plays a tough conference schedule because the SEC is actually good. [/quote] I swear, not only do actual fans of SEC teams get off thinking about their conference... but fans of other teams not in the Big 10 or 12, seem to always jump into the conversation with SECs balls firmly in their mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bgal' date='20 September 2009 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1253465137' post='804297'] I swear, not only do actual fans of SEC teams get off thinking about their conference... but fans of other teams not in the Big 10 or 12, seem to always jump into the conversation with SECs balls firmly in their mouths. [/quote] The SEC and Big 12 are much tougher conferences than your teams (Big 10), my teams (Big East), the ACC or Pac 10. It isnt SEC balls in mouth its just common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' date='20 September 2009 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1253452471' post='804224'] I'd prefer they not lose to anyone, but if they are going to lose, I'd prefer it be to the teams they've been losing to. And I won't comment on your shot at their schedule, while teams like Florida are playing Florida A&M and FIU. [/quote] Obviously, no one likes to lose at all; keep in mind, though, that the choice I was proposing was between (winning big games, crushing other elite teams, but losing regularly to the lesser teams) OR (making it through the weak opponents without incident but always losing, frequently badly, to good teams). I wasn't specifically commenting on OSU's schedule, by the way - that's kinda why I said 'flaw in the rankings system.' In my mind, a team doesn't become elite by not losing to bad or mediocre opponents. That makes them above average. What makes them elite is beating other elite opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 You can talk about schedules all you want, but osu tries to schedule at least one big non conference game every year. Thats all you can really ask. Theres lots of teams in other bcs conferences that dont play any big games till the conference play starts. OSU isnt gonna schedule 3 games against top 15 teams non conference, it makes no sense. But they do schedule 1 every year or try to anyways. As for Thurman saying he would rather win a bcs bowl then lose the nc, thats just stupid. How many stadiums do you see banners for winning the rose bowl or something? You dont, you see banners for winning conference championships and national championships, winning a bcs bowl isnt as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='20 September 2009 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1253489311' post='805595'] You can talk about schedules all you want, but osu tries to schedule at least one big non conference game every year. Thats all you can really ask. Theres lots of teams in other bcs conferences that dont play any big games till the conference play starts. OSU isnt gonna schedule 3 games against top 15 teams non conference, it makes no sense. But they do schedule 1 every year or try to anyways. As for Thurman saying he would rather win a bcs bowl then lose the nc, thats just stupid. How many stadiums do you see banners for winning the rose bowl or something? You dont, you see banners for winning conference championships and national championships, winning a bcs bowl isnt as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. [/quote] um every college stadium i have been to i have seen a banner for the bowl game that they won.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='21 September 2009 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1253544873' post='805842'] um every college stadium i have been to i have seen a banner for the bowl game that they won.... [/quote] Hmm maybe I never paid enough attention, ill have to look again next game i go to. Either way, I still firmly believe that most fans and players and coaches of good college teams would rather play for a national championship then win any other bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='21 September 2009 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1253553932' post='805923'] Hmm maybe I never paid enough attention, ill have to look again next game i go to. Either way, I still firmly believe that most fans and players and coaches of good college teams would rather play for a national championship then win any other bowl game. [/quote] ive never been to OSUs stadium to be fair in me saying that ive seen it in other stadiums. and if i had my choice of UC winning the NC or going to a BCS bowl game and winning i will take winning every time. i think one of my reasons behind it is because the NCAA football postseason setup is beyond fucking retarded and i have no respect for the system at all and think it is majorly flawed and doesnt prove or mean shit to who is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' date='21 September 2009 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1253571249' post='806045'] ive never been to OSUs stadium to be fair in me saying that ive seen it in other stadiums. and if i had my choice of UC winning the NC or going to a BCS bowl game and winning i will take winning every time. i think one of my reasons behind it is because[b] the NCAA football postseason setup is beyond fucking retarded and i have no respect for the system at all and think it is majorly flawed and doesnt prove or mean shit to who is the best.[/b] [/quote] Ill agree there...but about winning a bowl game over playing in the national championship I think many people will disagree with you. Maybe its because UC hasnt really played for a NC so winning a BCS bowl is good enough for their program. But fans of OSU and USC etc expect their teams to be competing for national championships... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/12248238 [quote] Tressel outshines Carroll in college football's location nation Sep. 22, 2009 By Gregg Doyel CBSSports.com National Columnist Tell Gregg your opinion! This story is going to do things you didn't think possible. It will compliment Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel in a way that insults the OSU football program. It will compliment Southern California in a way that insults USC coach Pete Carroll. How is that possible? It just is. Trust me. I know how this story ends. And I know how it begins, too. Jim Tressel's teams have routinely beaten the teams they should beat. (Getty Images) It begins with a football game on Sept. 28, 2003. It begins on that day with this score: California 34, USC 31. Cal was unranked. The Trojans were No. 3. That was the first of six losses to unranked Pac-10 teams the Trojans have suffered under Carroll, a trend that continued Saturday when No. 3 USC lost to Washington. Given how good USC has been under Carroll, that's a staggering number of losses to unranked teams. Still, Carroll usually gets a pass from critics. He's a great coach. Almost everyone says so. Meanwhile, at Ohio State, Tressel gets no such free pass. His teams mangle the teams they're supposed to mangle, but the Buckeyes have lost six consecutive games to opponents ranked in the top five, and the country laughs while the locals cry. Just last week, after Tressel's Buckeyes lost to Carroll's top five Trojans, OSU fans dumped their misery into Tressel's e-mail account, causing Tressel to mock them as being "already miserable ... there's no way they're happy." Tressel is mostly ripped while Carroll is mostly left alone, which means something has been lost along the way: Common sense. Perspective. An understanding of what those two programs are, and just as important, where they are. Use some common sense on the matter, have some perspective, and you'll see the obvious: Jim Tressel is a better coach than Pete Carroll. I know what the numbers say. Carroll has won 84.9 percent of his games compared to 81 percent for Tressel. Carroll has won two national titles to one for Tressel. And just nine days ago, Carroll beat Tressel head-to-head. In Columbus, no less. The numbers say Carroll is better than Tressel, but numbers lie. Numbers say Tim Tebow is the best college quarterback of all time, and that's a lie of Nixonian or Clintonian proportions. Related links Dodd: USC's dynastic run might be done Dodd: Turn against Tressel? Turn in awards SB Nation Face plants and USC 'accountability' Double standards for Ohio State When it comes to Tressel and Carroll, this is the absolute truth: At a football goldmine like USC, Carroll is supposed to win 84.9 percent of his games. He's supposed to win two national titles in eight or nine years. And he's supposed to beat Tressel head-to-head. Why? Three reasons: Location, location, location. Look at the consistently dominant programs -- the national champions, the near-champions -- in today's college football: Florida. Southern Cal. Texas. Oklahoma. LSU. And Ohio State. What school doesn't belong in that group, from a geography standpoint? Ohio State. The Buckeyes have no business beating USC or LSU or Florida, and so bless their heart, they don't. They get smoked when they play a top five team, one usually from the Deep South or from Southern California, because they aren't just playing against USC or LSU or Florida. They're playing against a stacked deck. Kids don't want to play for Ohio State because kids don't want to freeze their ass off. You'll find exceptions to that statement, obviously, but save it. Don't give me a recruiting list that shows how a handful of top recruits every year pick Penn State or Notre Dame or, yes, Ohio State. Don't bother. Those are the exceptions, not the rule. Most great players pick a college where it's warm, in part because they live where it's warm. The best players come from Florida, California and Texas. And where are the best college programs located? Florida, California and Texas (and Oklahoma). What a coincidence. That stuff is obvious, but don't tell me it's obvious. Tell yourself. You're the one who insists Pete Carroll is a better coach than Jim Tressel because he wins more than Jim Tressel -- even as you conveniently forget that Carroll should win more than Tressel. Yet Carroll doesn't win the games he should. Not every time. About once a year his team loses a game it has no business losing. Carroll got the choke shock out of the way early this season against Washington, but I'm disagreeing with Dennis Dodd on one thing: He suggests Carroll's dynasty is teetering. Not me. As long as he's there, Carroll will win 84.9 percent of his games and the occasional national title. He's the perfect fit for USC because he knows how to attract future NFL talent. Does he know how to coach it, how to maximize it? No. He does not. Tressel coaches. Tressel maximizes. His teams don't choke or get shocked. Do they lose to the best opponents on the biggest stages? Yeah. They do. All things being equal, the more talented team wins, and Ohio State hasn't been more talented than LSU or Florida or USC or Texas. And Ohio State should never be more talented than LSU or Florida or USC or Texas. But Tressel does get the most out of his teams. I'm sure of that. Carroll? I'm not so sure about him. The only thing I'm sure of, when it comes to Carroll, is this: He signs guys like Leinart and Bush and White and Sanchez and stud after stud after stud, but it's wrong to say Carroll signs great talent and then just rolls the ball onto the field and lets them play. Because if he just rolled the ball onto the field and let them play, the Trojans would have beaten Washington.[/quote] He kinda makes my point...I dont know if I agree with the whole location argument, but the rest helps make my point. Tressel gets the most out of his teams, they win the games they are supposed to and fall short against teams with more talent. Carroll rarely gets the best out of his teams for a full season, yeah he wins big games. But he would have a lot more really big games if he didnt blow games every year to shitty teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='23 September 2009 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1253728308' post='806589'] http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/12248238 He kinda makes my point...I dont know if I agree with the whole location argument, but the rest helps make my point. Tressel gets the most out of his teams, they win the games they are supposed to and fall short against teams with more talent. Carroll rarely gets the best out of his teams for a full season, yeah he wins big games. But he would have a lot more really big games if he didnt blow games every year to shitty teams. [/quote] "Who cares...I rape them both." [img]http://thebigorangebeacon.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ncf_u_kelly_300.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Let's see, where were we...ah, yes - Ohio State never loses against shitty teams. Anyone care to revisit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 [quote name='Go Tory Go!' date='17 October 2009 - 06:47 PM' timestamp='1255816076' post='817498'] Let's see, where were we...ah, yes - Ohio State never loses against shitty teams. Anyone care to revisit? [/quote] ahh yes. I'll take once every 6 years to every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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