Draft Thoughts on Super Sunday

[oldschooler]

[b][url="http://stripehype.com/2010/02/07/draft-thoughts-on-super-sunday/"][size="5"][color="#000000"]Draft Thoughts on Super Sunday[/color][/size][/url][/b]
[b]Posted by: david


[/b]It's Super Bowl Sunday, and the Cincinnati Bengals…aren't playing. Oh well, neither are 29 other teams, and at least the Bengals can hang their hats on their second AFC North championship in five seasons. However, winning their third in six seasons will require a solid draft this coming April, and I grow more uneasy each time I start thinking about the draft.

Why? Because it's practically a foregone conclusion that the Bengals will cash in most, if not all, of their premium picks on offensive skill positions — and the team's recent track record in that regard is terrible.

Wide receivers? Since 2003, the Bengals have drafted [b]Kelly Washington (3), Maurice Mann (5), Chris Henry (3), Tab Perry (6), Bennie Brazell (7), Jerome Simpson (2), Andre Caldwell (3), Mario Urrita (7)[/b] and [b]Freddie Brown (7).[/b] That's a total of nine picks — including one second- and three third-round selections — across seven drafts, and the only guy worth a damn out of the whole group was Henry. And he's dead.

The list of running backs is shorter, but no less painful. [b]Jeremi Johnson (4), Chris Perry (1), Kenny Irons (2), Bernard Scott (6)[/b] and [b]Fui Vakapuna (7).[/b] Johnson had a couple decent years before his weight problems caught up with him and Scott flashed some ability last season, but it was free agency and [b]Cedric Benson[/b] which revived the Bengals running game in 2008 and 2009, not any successes in the draft.

Tight end? Since 2002, the Bengals have drafted precisely two, count 'em, two TEs, [b]Matt Sherry (6)[/b] and [b]Chase "Crash Dummy" Coffman (4).[/b] Somehow, other teams around the NFL can draft and utilize all these college TEs who allegedly can't block. But the mystery appears too deep for the Bengals.

When you add it all up, the Marvin Lewis Bengals have used 16 picks on WRs, RBs and TEs (and that doesn't include picks like QB [b]Reggie McNeal,[/b] whom they tried to convert to a WR). These include one first, two second, three third and two fourth-round picks. Remaining from that group are Jeremi Johnson, who failed to impress in 2009 after missing all of '08 due to weight and injury issues; Coffman, who couldn't beat out [b]Dan "Butterfingers" Coats[/b] for a roster spot; Simpson, who has barely seen the field in two years and who was thrown under the bus by QB [b]Carson Palmer[/b] last season; and Caldwell, who failed to live up to expectations (admittedly high) in 2009 after performing surprisingly well in his rookie season.

So, when I read and hear how the Bengals are going to spend pick after pick on offense, my spirits sink. They have simply not shown any ability to identify, draft and develop top-tier offensive talent, with the notable exception of offensive linemen, in the Lewis era. Indeed, the biggest bangs have come from free agency and guys like Benson and [b]Reggie Kelly,[/b] though they've had their share of FA flops as well.

I don't know what the answer is, but the Bengals need to re-evaluate their evaluation process, and re-examine their priorities and strategies, on the offensive side of the ball ahead of April's draft. Business as usual will only lead to calamity.




[url="http://stripehype.com/2010/02/07/draft-thoughts-on-super-sunday/"]http://stripehype.com/2010/02/07/draft-thoughts-on-super-sunday/[/url]

[TheBeaverHunter]

I agree with this article. They have really been missing on picks since the Henry pick. They found gold in Chad (2nd), TJ (7th), and Henry (3rd). Since 2005, they have been pretty bad. They haven't drafted a standout since....in any position.

[Jason]

Damn, that's kind of depressing. Although I still have hope for Caldwell and Coffman to develop into good players.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' date='08 February 2010 - 07:28 AM' timestamp='1265635721' post='862042']
I agree with this article. They have really been missing on picks since the Henry pick. They found gold in Chad (2nd), TJ (7th), and Henry (3rd). Since 2005, they have been pretty bad. They haven't drafted a standout since....in any position.
[/quote]


Tab Perry looked pretty good, until his injury.

Anyway, I think this just points out how big the loss of Hue Jackson was.
And how sucky Mike Sheppard has been compared to Hue.

[happyrid]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' date='08 February 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1265635721' post='862042']
I agree with this article. They have really been missing on picks since the Henry pick. They found gold in Chad (2nd), TJ (7th), and Henry (3rd). Since 2005, they have been pretty bad. They haven't drafted a standout since....in any position.
[/quote]

Not sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying they haven't drafted any standouts at any position since 05? If so, I'd disagree because both Hall and Joseph are really good.

The Bengals need to grab consensus good, finished product type of guys this year from bigtime programs and not take a risk on guys who played at small schools (Jerome) or who played in gimmick offenses (Chase).

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='happyrid' date='08 February 2010 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1265636985' post='862046']
Not sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying they haven't drafted any standouts at any position since 05? If so, I'd disagree because both Hall and Joseph are really good.

The Bengals need to grab consensus good, finished product type of guys this year from bigtime programs and not take a risk on guys who played at small schools (Jerome) or who played in gimmick offenses (Chase).
[/quote]


Offensively

[scharm]

They have not replicated the gold they found in Rudi, Chad, TJ, and Henry.

However some noted disagreements from me:

JJ - Don't know what this dude is talking about, 2009 was very good for JJ. You talk about him getting snubbed in Pro Bowl, FB never is a hot topic so it gets overlooked.

K-Wash- Dude is still in the NFL and playing roles on playoffs teams. He wasn't a fit here because the bengals drafted skill players at a good rate.

The disappointment is clearly Jerome Simpson.

[scharm]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' date='08 February 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1265638564' post='862050']
Offensively
[/quote]


Whit is a standout at a franchise position.

[JC]

Chase could be extremely productive if he was able to split out wide and didn't have to stay in and block. Watching Dallas Clark last night showed how much we need Chase to develop and shore up the offensive line so he doesn't have to stay in and block all the time.

The tight end out of Illinois, Chase, and Reggie or Foschi and we could see Illi TE and Chase running two tight end sets like they do in SD.

[-GoBengals-]

many of those listed are late round picks you grab for shits and grins, we had two pro bowl WR's on the roster already.. why would we be spending high picks on the spot often? caldwell has done well, simpson is a huge question mark, washington had been decent for us and for others since, who cares about maurice mann, or freddie brown, or maurice purify? etc.. we obviously didnt draft a 5th, 6th or 7th com pick WR in hope they would be the next TJ.... you pick dudes who MAY develop into something.. if not.. you lost pretty much nothing.. the last two rounds of the draft arent much different than UDFA players..

using pointless zero value picks as evidence of some sort of drafting problem just proves you are trying to stir the pot....

we have drafted 1 WR in the first two rounds since Chad, and he is a known project who we can call a bust or not in about 10 months...

the tone of the article acts as if we should be drafted a 1st or 2nd round pro bowl WR every draft.. our last top 2 round WR is a 6 time pro bowler still on the team..

[Jason]

[quote name='JC' date='08 February 2010 - 09:54 AM' timestamp='1265640841' post='862067']
Chase could be extremely productive if he was able to split out wide and didn't have to stay in and block. Watching Dallas Clark last night showed how much we need Chase to develop and shore up the offensive line so he doesn't have to stay in and block all the time.

The tight end out of Illinois, Chase, and Reggie or Foschi and we could see Illi TE and Chase running two tight end sets like they do in SD.
[/quote]
I have a friend that thinks we should take Gresham in 1 (if he's there and Dez is not) to be our TE and use Coffman the way Tampa used Joe Jurevicious (sp?)

I like the idea.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Jason' date='08 February 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1265652757' post='862119']
I have a friend that thinks we should take Gresham in 1 (if he's there and Dez is not) to be our TE and use Coffman the way Tampa used Joe Jurevicious (sp?)

I like the idea.
[/quote]

hmm.. not a terrible idea.. i still wouldnt take gresham tho.. chase ran a 4.85 40.. tj ran a 4.61 and was the #2 but played the possession type role id expect out of chase if he were a possession #3 type WR..

he would have to run GREAT routes...

anyone know any reviews on coffmans route running?

[JC]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='08 February 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1265653280' post='862121']
hmm.. not a terrible idea.. i still wouldnt take gresham tho.. chase ran a 4.85 40.. tj ran a 4.61 and was the #2 but played the possession type role id expect out of chase if he were a possession #3 type WR..

he would have to run GREAT routes...

anyone know any reviews on coffmans route running?
[/quote]
I just googled Chase Coffman route running and every single site I saw said he was a very good route runner. I think if Chase can even adequately block we can run very effective two TE sets. I want to see him split out anyways. The way the Colts use Clark and how he uses his body against smaller guys is just out of this world. If Chase can develop this off-season our offense will at least improve to middle of the pack. Add a good pass blocker and a reciever out of the great group coming out and we could move back to a very respectable offense.

I would think Gresham would be a better possesion reciever than Chase would. I wouldn't be opposed to Gresham though. I do have my sights set on Iupati and Gilyard in one and two. I would like to get the Illini TE in round four if he is there, so we don't have six offensive lineman out there which takes away a little element of surprise.

[sparky151]

It's fair to expect 5th-7th rounders to contribute at some point. The Bengals rarely cut draft picks and average NFL turnover is about 12-15 new players a season. Expecting all 7 draftees to contribute isn't unreasonable. Sometimes teams will go for quantity and draft multiple players at a position in hopes at least one works out. The Bengals have done that at WR.

[Who Dey Forever]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' date='08 February 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1265635721' post='862042']
I agree with this article. They have really been missing on picks since the Henry pick. They found gold in Chad (2nd), TJ (7th), and Henry (3rd). Since 2005, they have been pretty bad. They haven't drafted a standout since....in any position.
[/quote]
2009 draft we had is pretty loaded with talent..It just all depends on health .. They were all rookies this year and some of them made a contribution..Bernard Scott, Huber, Maualuga, Michael Johnson, Andre Smith and Chase will be a beast next year..

Also in 2005, that was probably one of the best drafts in history too..If it wasn't for injuries and just bad luck imagine how much more depth this team would have..Pollack, Thurman, Henry, Kieft, Tab Perry and a stud DE in Fanene.

[Oldcat]

Well lets look at this without the 'we suck' analysis built right in. First of all, we have to consider the difference between wisdom of drafting and final result.

So at WR - Kelly Washington was a reliable starter from 2003 until pushed down the depth chart by Henry. He's still in the league, so that was a good pick. Mann was grabbed of our PS, so at least one other team thought he was good. Call it 50-50. Henry was a good selection, even with the lessening by his suspensions. Tab paid off in STs in 2005 alone, and was lost to injury. A good draft pick. The seventh rounders were real flyers. Andre started at 3rd WR, did kick return for 2 years, made quite a few clutch catches last year. Good pick. Jerome is still undecided. So at worst we are at 4-1-1, with three seventh rounders in the 'who cares' category.

RBs
Jeremy Johnson is a FB, and apparently valuable enough to resign once and start from 2004-2009. Good pick. Perry and Irons were more or less lost to injury, hard to say if our draft scouting is at fault.
Fui is another 7th rounder, and Scott again shone in STs and in games enough to justify a round 6.
I call that 2-0-2, with one 'who cares'.

TE
With only 2 choices in the last 8 years, the team doesn't care about the position either. Since Coffman is still around, that means at worst we burned a sixth rounder. Yawn.

Funny how QB was left out of the analysis.

Careers in the NFL are about five years long or less on the average. Blaming the scouts that we don't have a lot of players from 2003 around is a little silly, no team does except for the odd star player. It is a fact that we have had underperformance from our draft classes in 2005-7 due to injury, character risks, and possibly from lack of development from the coaches, and it has hurt the team's development.

Its a little less clear that the picks themselves were bad due to poor scouting.

[scharm]

Draft as a whole. They burnt the team down after 2007. The overtook Ravens/Steelers for division championship. Ravens/Steelers are considered the gold standard in drafting.

I'd say since 2006 and beyond the Bengals have been drafting at a very good level. Proof is in the Division Championship hat sitting in my closet.

The lack of results on the offensive side is a direct result of the focus of the team and the succuess they had prior to Lewis. The level of picks clearly isn't there.

The late round offensive players have not turned to gold like Chad, TJ and Rudi, but how can you expect them too when those players were playing quite a bit throught that time frame?