US Military Wikileak Video...WARNING GRAPHIC

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='08 April 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1270742254' post='876062']
Long list of stuff
[/quote]

Boy you're gullible. Did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary? Go check it out.

Do you understand what "defense" means. Iraq did nothing to the United States. Iraq bucked against stuff done by the US and UN to it. To me, just because we don't like Saddam (whom OF COURSE we put into power... I mean that's just like a fucking broken record right there) and what he does, even though he posed absolutely no threat to the United States, that doesn't mean we should spend trillions and sacrifice 15,000 of our own killed, and 100,000 - 1,000,000 Iraq civilians (depending on who you want to believe) to play chess on the world stage. We didn't enter WW2 until we were bombed at Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on us. That's the difference between defense and waging war. The other difference? WE ACTUALLY DECLARED WAR IN THAT INSTANCE!

From the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_street_memo]Downing Street Memo[/url]:
"It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."
"[George W.] Bush wanted to remove Saddam Hussein, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."


http://downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html

We were lied to. You choose to look back and justify reasons why we had to or should have done this. Kinda reminds me of the classic battered female who goes back and makes excuses for why her boyfriend who just gave her a black eye is really such a good guy and truly loves her. What benefit has this gotten us? Are you safer in your home in Wisconsin? No, not at all. But the national debt has spiraled, 15,000 Americans are dead, 100,000 Iraqi civilians are dead by US hands, and the Middle East is still a quagmire.

Oh, we also took out Iran's biggest enemy in the region, so they probably thank us for that.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='08 April 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1270754193' post='876143']
That is an added bonus....
[/quote]


At least your honest.

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='08 April 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1270777254' post='876238']
Boy you're gullible. Did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary? Go check it out.

Do you understand what "defense" means. Iraq did nothing to the United States. Iraq bucked against stuff done by the US and UN to it. To me, just because we don't like Saddam (whom OF COURSE we put into power... I mean that's just like a fucking broken record right there) and what he does, even though he posed absolutely no threat to the United States, that doesn't mean we should spend trillions and sacrifice 15,000 of our own killed, and 100,000 - 1,000,000 Iraq civilians (depending on who you want to believe) to play chess on the world stage. We didn't enter WW2 until we were bombed at Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on us. That's the difference between defense and waging war. The other difference? WE ACTUALLY DECLARED WAR IN THAT INSTANCE!

From the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_street_memo]Downing Street Memo[/url]:
"It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."
"[George W.] Bush wanted to remove Saddam Hussein, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."


http://downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html

We were lied to. You choose to look back and justify reasons why we had to or should have done this. Kinda reminds me of the classic battered female who goes back and makes excuses for why her boyfriend who just gave her a black eye is really such a good guy and truly loves her. What benefit has this gotten us? Are you safer in your home in Wisconsin? No, not at all. But the national debt has spiraled, 15,000 Americans are dead, 100,000 Iraqi civilians are dead by US hands, and the Middle East is still a quagmire.

Oh, we also took out Iran's biggest enemy in the region, so they probably thank us for that.
[/quote]



This

[sois]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='08 April 2010 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1270747241' post='876093']
[img]http://slapnose.com/images/blog/1104/1104_black_bush350x267.jpg[/img]

[size="6"]I'm trying to get that oil...ohhh cough...[/size]
[/quote]

What image were you trying to post? I don't see anything.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='sois' date='08 April 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1270777530' post='876243']
What image were you trying to post? I don't see anything.
[/quote]


thats weird it posted earlier...


[img]http://slapnose.com/images/blog/1104/1104_black_bush350x267.jpg[/img]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='08 April 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1270777254' post='876238']
Boy you're gullible. Did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary? Go check it out.[/quote]


Why do you motherfuckers feel the need to talk down to me in this forum?

Funny, you say we did 'NOTHING' then edit my post to say "long list of stuff"
that you didn't even address. So how can it be nothing, and a "long list of stuff"?




[quote]Do you understand what "defense" means. Iraq did nothing to the United States. Iraq bucked against stuff done by the US and UN to it. To me, just because we don't like Saddam (whom OF COURSE we put into power... I mean that's just like a fucking broken record right there) and what he does, even though he posed absolutely no threat to the United States, that doesn't mean we should spend trillions and sacrifice 15,000 of our own killed, and 100,000 - 1,000,000 Iraq civilians (depending on who you want to believe) to play chess on the world stage. We didn't enter WW2 until we were bombed at Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on us. That's the difference between defense and waging war. The other difference? WE ACTUALLY DECLARED WAR IN THAT INSTANCE![/quote]


Yeah I understand what defense means. And sometimes defenses
go on the offensive.


We didn't put Saddam in power.

And I am not going to debate with you whether or not YOU think
we should have went to war. I was responding to what you said
about us invading a Country that "did nothing." They did do something.


We had been at war with Saddam once already. He had terms to his surrender.
He didn't abide by them. Bush trumped up the charges to gain support.
I was already supportive of taking Saddam out.



[quote]We were lied to. You choose to look back and justify reasons why we had to or should have done this. Kinda reminds me of the classic battered female who goes back and makes excuses for why her boyfriend who just gave her a black eye is really such a good guy and truly loves her. What benefit has this gotten us? Are you safer in your home in Wisconsin? No, not at all. But the national debt has spiraled, 15,000 Americans are dead, 100,000 Iraqi civilians are dead by US hands, and the Middle East is still a quagmire.[/quote]


LOL. More talking down to. Fuck you, OK?

Go back and look what I said about the war when we invaded.
I haven't changed my stance at all.



And b-b-b-but wait. I thought we went to war for oil?
How can this war be costing us so much if we went there
for something that should pay for it?

And why the fuck do you keep saying 15,000 Americans dead?

The people we are fighting have killed more Iraqis than us.

And yes, people die in wars. Less people would have died had
we taken Saddam out in 1991. Again, it was a mistake not to.

Fact is, Saddam did do something. You made it sound like he
was innocent and minding his own business and we just went
there to keep our army trained. That is not true.
That is all I was addressing.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='08 April 2010 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1270748166' post='876110']
In good faith, I want everyone here to ask themselves and answer this question....


If you just witnessed men being gunned down violently, would you drive your van with your children in it into the area it happened just minutes after it happened to pick up a wounded man?

Personally, I would not even think about it.......

If I felt compelled to save the man I would first make sure my children were safe.....taking your children into an area where fighting just occurred is completely irresponsible as a parent and an adult.
[/quote]

Some people were appalled that children were killed in the van....

I think this post I made got run over by off topic things.....

Does anyone have a comment on it?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='09 April 2010 - 07:54 AM' timestamp='1270817693' post='876293']
Some people were appalled that children were killed in the van....

I think this post I made got run over by off topic things.....

Does anyone have a comment on it?
[/quote]


Sorry that I responded to something someone said and it
threw stuff off topic, but was really on topic. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/default/on_the_quiet.gif[/img]


I wouldn't even pick up a hitchhiker with my kids in the car.


And some of the people walking around buildings that were just hit
by a missle, had me SMH too. No way they will send another missile . . . BOOM!.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 09:01 AM' timestamp='1270818119' post='876295']
Sorry that I responded to something someone said and it
threw stuff off topic, but was really on topic. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/default/on_the_quiet.gif[/img]


I wouldn't even pick up a hitchhiker with my kids in the car.


And some of the people walking around buildings that were just hit
by a missle, had me SMH too. No way they will send another missile . . . BOOM!.
[/quote]

Agreed.

I just don't get the outrage....

The outrage should be over the stupidity of the parents.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 07:29 AM' timestamp='1270812564' post='876281']
Why do you motherfuckers feel the need to talk down to me in this forum?

Funny, you say we did 'NOTHING' then edit my post to say "long list of stuff"
that you didn't even address. So how can it be nothing, and a "long list of stuff"?







Yeah I understand what defense means. And sometimes defenses
go on the offensive.


We didn't put Saddam in power.

And I am not going to debate with you whether or not YOU think
we should have went to war. I was responding to what you said
about us invading a Country that "did nothing." They did do something.


We had been at war with Saddam once already. He had terms to his surrender.
He didn't abide by them. Bush trumped up the charges to gain support.
I was already supportive of taking Saddam out.






LOL. More talking down to. Fuck you, OK?

Go back and look what I said about the war when we invaded.
I haven't changed my stance at all.



And b-b-b-but wait. I thought we went to war for oil?
How can this war be costing us so much if we went there
for something that should pay for it?

And why the fuck do you keep saying 15,000 Americans dead?

The people we are fighting have killed more Iraqis than us.

And yes, people die in wars. Less people would have died had
we taken Saddam out in 1991. Again, it was a mistake not to.

Fact is, Saddam did do something. You made it sound like he
was innocent and minding his own business and we just went
there to keep our army trained. That is not true.
That is all I was addressing.
[/quote]


None of these "things" were justification, but lets be honest you didnt need them in the first place, you were ready to go back the day after the first war ended.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 April 2010 - 08:23 AM' timestamp='1270819386' post='876301']
None of these "things" were justification, but lets be honest you didnt need them in the first place, you were ready to go back the day after the first war ended.
[/quote]


They were justified. That is why the U.N. kept drawing up more resolutions, there were sanctions,
Clinton sent bombs ect, ect, ect.

And I let's be honest? I think I have said several times that I think they should have
taken him out in 1991, and it was a mistake not to. After him killing 100s of 1000s of
his own people after that war, not abiding by the terms of his surrender, kicking out
weapons inspectors, buying and trading shit he was supposed to be forbidden to buy and
trade, shooting at out pilots, and a host of other things. I think we were more than
justified to finish the job.

But that wasn't my point when I responded to CT in the first place.

Like I said, he made it seem like Saddam did NOTHING and we were just
wanting to train our Army. That is catergorically false.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 09:33 AM' timestamp='1270820001' post='876303']
They were justified. That is why the U.N. kept drawing up more resolutions, there were sanctions,
Clinton sent bombs ect, ect, ect.

And I let's be honest? I think I have said several times that I think they should have
taken him out in 1991, and it was a mistake not to. After him killing 100s of 1000s of
his own people after that war, not abiding by the terms of his surrender, kicking out
weapons inspectors, buying and trading shit he was supposed to be forbidden to buy and
trade, shooting at out pilots, and a host of other things. I think we were more than
justified to finish the job.

But that wasn't my point when I responded to CT in the first place.

Like I said, he made it seem like Saddam did NOTHING and we were just
wanting to train our Army. That is catergorically false.
[/quote]


and there it is, he didnt need to do anything you were ready to go back regardless of what he did or didnt do

this war was unnecessary

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 April 2010 - 08:51 AM' timestamp='1270821080' post='876306']
and there it is, he didnt need to do anything you were ready to go back regardless of what he did or didnt do

this war was unnecessary
[/quote]


That is dumb. If he had abided by the terms of his surrender, then no, I wouldn't
have supported going back. I thought it was a mistake to not take him out in
1991. His actions for over a decade after that just cemented me knowing it
was a mistake.

Maybe you will get it now.

And I think Saddam's actions made it necessary. He had every intention
of starting up his weapons programs when the sanctions were lifted.
Better to hit him when he is weaker than wait til he is stronger. Seriously,
the dude wasn't going to be anything other than a pain in our ass. And
military intervention was going to be needed sooner or later.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 10:03 AM' timestamp='1270821831' post='876312']
That is dumb. If he had abided by the terms of his surrender, then no, I wouldn't
have supported going back. I thought it was a mistake to not take him out in
1991. His actions for over a decade after that just cemented me knowing it
was a mistake.

Maybe you will get it now.

And I think Saddam's actions made it necessary. He had every intention
of starting up his weapons programs when the sanctions were lifted.
Better to hit him when he is weaker than wait til he is stronger. Seriously,
the dude wasn't going to be anything other than a pain in our ass. And
military intervention was going to be needed sooner or later.
[/quote]


The fact that we had to use "trumped up charges" at all should tell you it wasnt necessary.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 April 2010 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1270821936' post='876314']
The fact that we had to use "trumped up charges" at all should tell you it wasnt necessary.
[/quote]


They trumped up the charges to get support from other countries.
Some of those countries were profitting from sanctions and voted
against it, even with the trumped up charges.

And you had defectees from Iraq saying he had them.
You had intelligence saying he had them. And for all we
know, the intelligence was because that is what Saddam
wanted us and the World to think.

His #2 in the Air Force said they flew WMDs to Syria.


Saddam was going to start his weapons programs
back up after the sanctions were lifted. He wasn't
going to stop until he was stopped. He made the war necessary.

[sois]

Oldschooler, just come over to my camp.

I believe in the truth you posted 100%.
I also believe in the super-truth I posted.

Your truth is for the people that require little explanation. This satisfies 90% of folks.
Then the super-truth is used for people who want you to admit the non-PC reasons.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sois' date='09 April 2010 - 09:41 AM' timestamp='1270824079' post='876335']
Oldschooler, just come over to my camp.

I believe in the truth you posted 100%.
I also believe in the super-truth I posted.

Your truth is for the people that require little explanation. This satisfies 90% of folks.
Then the super-truth is used for people who want you to admit the non-PC reasons.
[/quote]


If Saddam had done the things he did, in let's say Africa, the World wouldn't
have responded to him the way they did in 1991. I am not naive.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1270825039' post='876345']
If Saddam had done the things he did, in let's say Africa, the World wouldn't
have responded to him the way they did in 1991. I am not naive.
[/quote]


FINALLY an admission.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 April 2010 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1270826903' post='876354']
FINALLY an admission.
[/quote]




An admission to what? That the WORLD views the Middle East and oil rich
Countries differently than they do Africa? Or other Countries that don't
have an abudance of a resource that drives the WORLD?


Whoa. Some Earth shattering shit right there, I tell ya.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 07:29 AM' timestamp='1270812564' post='876281']
Why do you motherfuckers feel the need to talk down to me in this forum?

Funny, you say we did 'NOTHING' then edit my post to say "long list of stuff"
that you didn't even address. So how can it be nothing, and a "long list of stuff"?
[/quote]

I said he did nothing to the United States of Amurrrrrica. As in, he never attacked us, never declared war on us, had nothing to do with 9/11. His list of crimes to his people and others are something I don't think we should be so concerned with. Why didn't other countries want to invade him so bad? Why just us? Why were they dragged along? Why do we not care about the Saudis' crimes against their people? Why do we not care about Darfur?

The answers are obvious, because we only began this war of aggression for purely geopolitical purposes. The money made by defense contractors and Haliburton were a door prize and aren't going to you, they're going directly in the pockets of the cronies and their friends whose grand idea this was.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 April 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1270828459' post='876356']
An admission to what? That the WORLD views the Middle East and oil rich
Countries differently than they do Africa? Or other Countries that don't
have an abudance of a resource that drives the WORLD?


Whoa. Some Earth shattering shit right there, I tell ya.
[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='09 April 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1270828855' post='876357']
Why didn't other countries want to invade him so bad? Why just us? Why were they dragged along? Why do we not care about the Saudis' crimes against their people? Why do we not care about Darfur?

The answers are obvious, because we only began this war of aggression for purely geopolitical purposes. The money made by defense contractors and Haliburton were a door prize and aren't going to you, they're going directly in the pockets of the cronies and their friends whose grand idea this was.
[/quote]


He's not Naïve.

[|Bunghole|]

I want my own Apache. It'll knock quite a bit of time off of my commute. And nobody could ever fuck with me.

[sois]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='09 April 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1270834045' post='876380']
I want my own Apache. It'll knock quite a bit of time off of my commute. And nobody could ever fuck with me.
[/quote]

hahhahahahahahhhahahahhhahahahah

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='09 April 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1270834045' post='876380']
I want my own Apache. It'll knock quite a bit of time off of my commute. And nobody could ever fuck with me.
[/quote]


Yeah but where do you land it? I want advancement in the sciences so I can have teleportation.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='09 April 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1270834045' post='876380']
I want my own Apache. It'll knock quite a bit of time off of my commute. And nobody could ever fuck with me.
[/quote]


Just make sure you do a fly-by of Pittsburgh on the way...