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AZ Immigration law


Jamie_B

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[quote name='big_dish' date='04 May 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1272987838' post='885829']
I actually meant to touch on that earlier but forgot. My gripe isnt with people who are currently screwed by the recession, b ut otherwise have held steady jobs and paid their dues/paid into the system. My problem is with the chronic offenders who leach off the system for their livelyhood- and are given everything they need year after year, while never contributing anything positive to society.
[/quote]


3.6 percent, and I wonder how much of those are people who cant work as opposed to dont want to.
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Thats still about 11 million people.

I dont have any problem whatsoever with social programs and allotments for people who physically or mentally are unable to work, but I would bet the majority can work if they wanted, could have made better choices in life, or in general could be in a better place in life one way or another if they had tried/would try.
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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1272985355' post='885816']
We will just have to agree to disagree on the politicians are only in it for themselves argument. I can see why based on what we see in the 24/7 media that only brings the excesses to the top you would fell that way, but I have had the opportunity to talk with elected officials on both sides of the fence, and though I disagreed with some of their ideas, I have rarely felt that they were in it for just themselves. I do agree that a lot of them are in it for what it does for the party and their next election, but most people are vested in keeping their job.

As far as the President, what I see is an intelligent man who is not a Idealogue. In the Health Care Debate, he tried to assist in bipartisan dialogue, and since over two hundred amendments were republican sponsored, the Bill was bipartisan, even if the vote was not. Even the idea of Mandating coverage was republican, although since it's in Obamacare, most Republicans have forgotten that fact! I've seen him pursue a war that we should have been focusing our attention on considering that the folks that killed 3000+ americans came from there, while prudently removing our footprint from the Sands of Iraq, where we never should have been. I have seen a president that has criticized both our Allies( Karazi and Nehtenyahu) as well as our enemies(Akhmajineadad), while at all times providing avenues for diplomacy. He also supported a Republican led Deficit Reduction Commission bill, although once he supported it, the Republican co-sponsors all dropped their support and voted against it. Whoulda thunk.

I must admit, he isn't perfect, and I wish he had come out with a DADT correction all ready, as well as not been so wiffle waffley on trying the terror suspects in NY. But overall, I think he is one of the best presidents we have had.
[/quote]

No problem... nothing wrong with disagreeing...

Hence, why I'll disagree with your last sentence here! :good2:



[quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 May 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1272987094' post='885826']
Is he very liberal or are you just very conservative?
[/quote]

When I made the comment I pretty clearly stated he was very liberal WHEN HE WAS A SENATOR... he's not been AS MUCH since his presidency has commenced and he's not moving closer to the center by any stretch. And, I'm not very conservative... I am conservative regarding financial matters and moderate to a little liberal in social matters to be honest. I dislike a few of the things socially that liberals like but other than that to each his own in my mind...

[quote name='big_dish' date='04 May 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1272987838' post='885829']
I actually meant to touch on that earlier but forgot. My gripe isnt with people who are currently screwed by the recession, b ut otherwise have held steady jobs and paid their dues/paid into the system. My problem is with the chronic offenders who leach off the system for their livelyhood- and are given everything they need year after year, while never contributing anything positive to society.
[/quote]

shhhh... don't talk about that extremely, miniscule portion of the total pool... there just aren't that many out there... :ninja:

or so I've been told by liberals / democrats...

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11 million is a lot, but in the scope of the population its still 3.6. But let me be clear on my belief, we suffer far far more from the Bernie Madoff's and the Lloyd Blankfein's ecnomicly speaking than we do from the 3.6 percent, however I dont see nearly the outrage towards those that I do towards the other end of the finical spectrum. In fact whenever it's brought up that we need to reign in some of what those guys do we get the "OMG SOCIALISM" crowd saying mind-numbingly stupid things.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 May 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1272993133' post='885849']
11 million is a lot, but in the scope of the population its still 3.6. But let me be clear on my belief, we suffer far far more from the Bernie Madoff's and the Lloyd Blankfein's ecnomicly speaking than we do from the 3.6 percent, [b]however I dont see nearly the outrage towards those that I do towards the other end of the finical spectrum.[/b] In fact whenever it's brought up that we need to reign in some of what those guys do we get the "OMG SOCIALISM" crowd saying mind-numbingly stupid things.
[/quote]
Thats beacuase its much easier for middle class white suburbia to vail their racism when its packaged in a PC "you don't work hard enough" economics arguement. Not sayin thats the case for people posting in this thread...
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[quote name='big_dish' date='04 May 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1272987838' post='885829']
I actually meant to touch on that earlier but forgot. My gripe isnt with people who are currently screwed by the recession, b ut otherwise have held steady jobs and paid their dues/paid into the system. My problem is with the chronic offenders who leach off the system for their livelyhood- and are given everything they need year after year, while never contributing anything positive to society.
[/quote]

Dish, You do realize that your "talking point" here, is generally code for "them black people on welfare", don't you? I hear it all the time from lower Middle class white people, and it just makes me cringe every time.
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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1272995877' post='885861']
Dish, You do realize that your "talking point" here, is generally code for "them black people on welfare", don't you? I hear it all the time from lower Middle class white people, and it just makes me cringe every time.
[/quote]

Here is a breakdown of welfare recipients (=/- a couple percentage points):
White 39%
Black 38%
Hispanic 15%
other 8%

I'm talking about everyone who leaches off the system, I dont give a shit what color their skin is. They are still taking the money I work hard for. I dont care if they are purple.

You could break it down to % of each race population on welfare which shows more so what you may be referring to- but I dont care who it is, I dont want to pay for their laziness, plain and simple. I work too hard for what I earn to give 40% of it away to leaches and prideless sub-humans. Race has absolutely no bearing in my life in any aspect. I want the welfare state and its creation of dependence on others to go away.
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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1272995877' post='885861']
Dish, You do realize that your "talking point" here, is generally code for "them black people on welfare", don't you? I hear it all the time from lower Middle class white people, and it just makes me cringe every time.
[/quote]

Is that an assumption that you make? Because you're "generally code" that you think isn't the first thing that rolls through my mind when I think of welfare...

In and around my area I see more white trash that I'd bet every dollar I have are receiving welfare... so, that is the immediate thought I have regarding welfare... not blacks, or mexicans, or any other race to be honest.

Elf... I think they only posted that, what, 17 minutes ago...

give people a little time before you start throwing the haymaker...
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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='04 May 2010 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1272995682' post='885860']
Thats beacuase its much easier for middle class white suburbia to vail their racism when its packaged in a PC "you don't work hard enough" economics arguement. Not sayin thats the case for people posting in this thread...
[/quote]


I think it's a combination of that and that people dont understand how they get ripped off by those at that end of the spectrum while its clear for them on the other end.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' date='04 May 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1272997207' post='885868']
Elf... I think they only posted that, what, 17 minutes ago...

give people a little time before you start throwing the haymaker...
[/quote]

Uhm, I was only noticing that both KennethMW and Squirrlnutz made the same (or similar) point back-to-back.

Not sure where you're going with that comment and no idea what the heck you mean by "haymaker"... :mellow:

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' date='04 May 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1272997207' post='885868']
Is that an assumption that you make? Because you're "generally code" that you think isn't the first thing that rolls through my mind when I think of welfare...

In and around my area I see more white trash that I'd bet every dollar I have are receiving welfare... so, that is the immediate thought I have regarding welfare... not blacks, or mexicans, or any other race to be honest.

Elf... I think they only posted that, what, 17 minutes ago...

give people a little time before you start throwing the haymaker...
[/quote]


That's because there are no black people in TN.


:ninja:

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 May 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1272998335' post='885879']
That's because there are no black people in TN.


:ninja:
[/quote]

only Memphis... :ninja:

[quote name='Elflocko' date='04 May 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1272997856' post='885874']
Uhm, I was only noticing that both KennethMW and Squirrlnutz made the same (or similar) point back-to-back.

Not sure where you're going with that comment and no idea what the heck you mean by "haymaker"... :mellow:
[/quote]

oh ok... gotcha.

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' date='04 May 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1272997207' post='885868']
Is that an assumption that you make? Because you're "generally code" that you think isn't the first thing that rolls through my mind when I think of welfare...

In and around my area I see more white trash that I'd bet every dollar I have are receiving welfare... so, that is the immediate thought I have regarding welfare... not blacks, or mexicans, or any other race to be honest.

Elf... I think they only posted that, what, 17 minutes ago...

give people a little time before you start throwing the haymaker...
[/quote]

Vol, I like you even though we would probably disagree on the majority of issues in american society. Once again, this will be an area where we disagree. You see, being a fairly upper middle class black man, who has worked his way up, I do see a little more of the subtle racism that you don't just because you've never experienced it. Let's go back to the original topic, the AZ immigration Law. Why are people in such an uproar over this law when it says that you can't racially profile someone, you must have a reason to stop them? Because people that are not of the majority race in this country, know that a police officer can ALWAYS find a reason to make a stop. Weaving in a lane, a rolling stop at a stop sign, following to close behind another vehicle, turning into the wrong lane when turning the corner, ETC. It's your word against the police officer's and he wins all the time. Now just like my statement on politicians, I don't in ANY WAY think that this is the majority of police officers, in fact, I'm sure its just 3.6%(interesting number, isn't it), but they do exist, and if you give them tools that allow them to detain, there will be some inappropriate detainments. You see, I've been stopped for DWB(driving while black)more than once, and even though I was never arrested for anything, you realize that some of your Freedoms are not as readily available as you think.

P.S. I do appreciate the fact that we can disagree agreeably, and if you ever want to drink a beer or two at a game, we could disagree some more, as long as you do agree that Who Dey is the Right way! :drinks: :drinks:

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' date='04 May 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1272998816' post='885882']

oh ok... gotcha.
[/quote]


B)

I was thinking to myself "Shit! Did I make a post so drunk and belligerent that I can't even see it sober?"

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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1272998945' post='885883']
Vol, I like you even though we would probably disagree on the majority of issues in american society. Once again, this will be an area where we disagree. You see, being a fairly upper middle class black man, who has worked his way up, I do see a little more of the subtle racism that you don't just because you've never experienced it. Let's go back to the original topic, the AZ immigration Law. Why are people in such an uproar over this law when it says that you can't racially profile someone, you must have a reason to stop them? Because people that are not of the majority race in this country, know that a police officer can ALWAYS find a reason to make a stop. Weaving in a lane, a rolling stop at a stop sign, following to close behind another vehicle, turning into the wrong lane when turning the corner, ETC. It's your word against the police officer's and he wins all the time. Now just like my statement on politicians, I don't in ANY WAY think that this is the majority of police officers, in fact, I'm sure its just 3.6%(interesting number, isn't it), but they do exist, and if you give them tools that allow them to detain, there will be some inappropriate detainments. You see, I've been stopped for DWB(driving while black)more than once, and even though I was never arrested for anything, you realize that some of your Freedoms are not as readily available as you think.

P.S. I do appreciate the fact that we can disagree agreeably, and if you ever want to drink a beer or two at a game, we could disagree some more, as long as you do agree that Who Dey is the Right way! :drinks: :drinks:
[/quote]

Nice post.

From my perspective, to support this law you have to believe:
1. Race, alone, is enough probable cause to assume a crime has been committed.
2. A good, effective way to deal with illegal immigrants is to physically remove them from the country.


Supporters agree or disagree?

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[quote name='CincyInDC' date='04 May 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1273003774' post='885940']
This guy has balls.

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0X1ggm5ZqsA/S9WJFMcLsfI/AAAAAAAAEu4/cQXKZg8ne0o/s640/spellingitout.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


That's just awesome right there...
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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1272998945' post='885883']
Vol, I like you even though we would probably disagree on the majority of issues in american society. Once again, this will be an area where we disagree. You see, being a fairly upper middle class black man, who has worked his way up, I do see a little more of the subtle racism that you don't just because you've never experienced it. Let's go back to the original topic, the AZ immigration Law. Why are people in such an uproar over this law when it says that you can't racially profile someone, you must have a reason to stop them? Because people that are not of the majority race in this country, know that a police officer can ALWAYS find a reason to make a stop. Weaving in a lane, a rolling stop at a stop sign, following to close behind another vehicle, turning into the wrong lane when turning the corner, ETC. It's your word against the police officer's and he wins all the time. Now just like my statement on politicians, I don't in ANY WAY think that this is the majority of police officers, in fact, I'm sure its just 3.6%(interesting number, isn't it), but they do exist, and if you give them tools that allow them to detain, there will be some inappropriate detainments. You see, I've been stopped for DWB(driving while black)more than once, and even though I was never arrested for anything, you realize that some of your Freedoms are not as readily available as you think.

P.S. I do appreciate the fact that we can disagree agreeably, and if you ever want to drink a beer or two at a game, we could disagree some more, as long as you do agree that Who Dey is the Right way! :drinks: :drinks:
[/quote]

Sounds good...

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='04 May 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1273003037' post='885927']
Nice post.

From my perspective, to support this law you have to believe:
1. Race, alone, is enough probable cause to assume a crime has been committed.
2. A good, effective way to deal with illegal immigrants is to physically remove them from the country.


Supporters agree or disagree?
[/quote]

Do you think younger folks tend to get "singled" out more than older folks? By police or otherwise...

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 May 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1272993133' post='885849']
11 million is a lot, but in the scope of the population its still 3.6. But let me be clear on my belief, we suffer far far more from the Bernie Madoff's and the Lloyd Blankfein's ecnomicly speaking than we do from the 3.6 percent, however I dont see nearly the outrage towards those that I do towards the other end of the finical spectrum. In fact whenever it's brought up that we need to reign in some of what those guys do we get the "OMG SOCIALISM" crowd saying mind-numbingly stupid things.
[/quote]

Then why do the top 10% of wage earners pay 65% of the income tax in this country?

I think as a country we benefit more from the upper class than people want to realize.....
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='04 May 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1273006141' post='885984']
Then why do the top 10% of wage earners pay 65% of the income tax in this country?

I think as a country we benefit more from the upper class than people want to realize.....
[/quote]

Because they own 90% of the financial or wealth building assets! Believe me, I want to pay more taxes, because then it will mean I am making a lot more money. I have been on both sides, and I much prefer to have a Tax Problem than a Money problem.
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[quote name='kennethmw' date='04 May 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1273009532' post='886009']
Because they own 90% of the financial or wealth building assets! Believe me, I want to pay more taxes, because then it will mean I am making a lot more money. I have been on both sides, and I much prefer to have a Tax Problem than a Money problem.
[/quote]

Wow...just wow. Then make more money.....Don't hate those that do...

If it wasn't for those rich people we would all suffer.

Blaming all rich people because Bernie Madoff and a few of his ilk were rotten is plain and simply...silly.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='04 May 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1273010404' post='886014']
Wow...just wow. Then make more money.....Don't hate those that do...

[b]If it wasn't for those rich people we would all suffer. [/b]

Blaming all rich people because Bernie Madoff and a few of his ilk were rotten is plain and simply...silly.
[/quote]


My turn to say "Wow".

Sorry, but I have a problem with companies like Exxon Mobile and GE that made $45 and $10 billion respectively last year and [url="http://climateprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-mobil-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2009/"]didn't pay a fucking cent in income taxes to the US.[/url]

That's $55 billion just for those 2 companies [i][b]tax free[/b][/i].

Oh, and per the update on the site, Exxon would be due a [b]refund[/b] of $26 Million.

Spare me your rhetoric about people [b]not[/b] making $7.25 an hour not "paying their own way".

[IMG]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/lodge308/LOLPUKE.gif[/IMG]
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