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AZ Immigration law


Jamie_B

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[quote name='MichaelWeston' date='01 July 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1278039172' post='895547']
I am very pro a social safety net like welfare. I think its a necessity for a nation like ours. It allows for entrepeneurship and taking risks. The problem is that we let it run rampant and let people run wild with it endlessly. Another problem is first illegal immigration and secondly legal immigration. It does not make sense to provide for persons who could be working and let other persons come into the country and take their jobs. welfare makes sense if immigration is closed. Then we are not letting people come into the country and take jobs from people we are already subsidizing.

If I were president this would be my plan.
1. Get all the troops back from the middle east. Its a stupid war that we should not be fighting. Put them in charge of border security and homeland security. Invest the war money in non fossil fuel energy. Its helping both us and the environment.
2. Have them round up the illegal immigrants and send them back. Fine heavily anyone from construction workers to farmers to wal mart who is found to be employing illegal immigrants.
3. Put a cap on welfare for the healthy at 6 months. They will be driven to work these jobs they refuse to currently work.
4. Start legal immigration again after we have say 11-12 persons for every 10 available jobs. We need competition and imigration helps us to get bright minds from other countries and also diversifies our culture, but when you don't have enough money to feed your family do you adopt another kid? The way we are running things now doesnt make much sense.
5. After the numbers are running better then use the social safety nets as opportunities for persons to be mobile in their jobs and entrepeneurial. This is what the health care reform will do for us. Our best and brightest will be able to take risks and move from job to job instead of being stuck at positions because they have pre-existing conditions.

The people who should be most furious about illegal immigration are legal immigrants. I stood in line and did all this work and am now paying taxes to receive the same benefits as other persons. Its just foolish.
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Good points.

All I would add is to start paying down the $13 trillion national debt we've managed to build up attacking countries that never did anything to us (well, 6 or 7 trillion of it)...
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Why don't we take some of the money we are spending to police the border with the electronic fence and all, and invest in streamlining Immigration. Make it easier to get in the states legally and the amount of illegals would decline. I read somewhere that in 20 years or so, there won't be enough workers in America to support the population as it stands now. Sounds like we NEED more immigrants to me. Streamline the immigration process so it doesn't take 2-3 years to get a permanent residency or green card. Staff the immigration offices with more workers so it only takes 6 months. Yes we need to police our borders still, but allow those that WANT to come here to work and do so legally the opportunity to do so.
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[quote name='Jim Finklestein' date='02 July 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1278096928' post='895603']
Why don't we take some of the money we are spending to police the border with the electronic fence and all, and invest in streamlining Immigration. Make it easier to get in the states legally and the amount of illegals would decline. I read somewhere that in 20 years or so, there won't be enough workers in America to support the population as it stands now. Sounds like we NEED more immigrants to me. Streamline the immigration process so it doesn't take 2-3 years to get a permanent residency or green card. Staff the immigration offices with more workers so it only takes 6 months. Yes we need to police our borders still, but allow those that WANT to come here to work and do so legally the opportunity to do so.
[/quote]


Stop making sense or people will attack you ferociously...
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[quote name='Jim Finklestein' date='02 July 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1278096928' post='895603']
Why don't we take some of the money we are spending to police the border with the electronic fence and all, and invest in streamlining Immigration. Make it easier to get in the states legally and the amount of illegals would decline. I read somewhere that in 20 years or so, there won't be enough workers in America to support the population as it stands now. [b]Sounds like we NEED more immigrants to me. [/b]Streamline the immigration process so it doesn't take 2-3 years to get a permanent residency or green card. Staff the immigration offices with more workers so it only takes 6 months. Yes we need to police our borders still, but allow those that WANT to come here to work and do so legally the opportunity to do so.
[/quote]

Maybe we need less people.
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I'm no population analyst but it seems to me that the jobs immigrants typically come here for are ones that American workers turn their noses up at. I can't believe there aren't thousands of healthy unemployed people on welfare right now that couldn't make a decent paycheck roofing houses or flipping burgers in Ruby Tuesday.

Maybe that paycheck won't support said American's previous standard of living, but isn't perseverance through hardship supposed to be a national ideal?

Not disagreeing with the above point at all though. This country is also supposed to be about opportunity, but the proper dues must be paid for that opportunity. And really, taxes can't be much of a burden compared to what the immigrants escaped from.
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[quote name='Jim Finklestein' date='02 July 2010 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1278096928' post='895603']
Why don't we take some of the money we are spending to police the border with the electronic fence and all, and invest in streamlining Immigration. Make it easier to get in the states legally and the amount of illegals would decline. I read somewhere that in 20 years or so, there won't be enough workers in America to support the population as it stands now. Sounds like we NEED more immigrants to me. Streamline the immigration process so it doesn't take 2-3 years to get a permanent residency or green card. Staff the immigration offices with more workers so it only takes 6 months. Yes we need to police our borders still, but allow those that WANT to come here to work and do so legally the opportunity to do so.
[/quote]

With the level of unemployment we currently have I don't think streamlining immigration is the answer. If and when that problem occurs then maybe we figure it out then.
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[quote name='Orange 'n Black' date='02 July 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1278128518' post='895644']
I'm no population analyst but it seems to me that the jobs immigrants typically come here for are ones that American workers turn their noses up at. I can't believe there aren't thousands of healthy unemployed people on welfare right now that couldn't make a decent paycheck roofing houses or flipping burgers in Ruby Tuesday.

Maybe that paycheck won't support said American's previous standard of living, but isn't perseverance through hardship supposed to be a national ideal?

Not disagreeing with the above point at all though. This country is also supposed to be about opportunity, but the proper dues must be paid for that opportunity. And really, taxes can't be much of a burden compared to what the immigrants escaped from.
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Not sure if you were addressing me, but My point was that now we are allowing healthy persons on welfare to exist on welfare instead of forcing them to take these low paying jobs. Immigrants, who are uneducated, tend to take those types of jobs because there is no incentive for persons here who are on some types of welfare to take them.
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[quote name='Inigo Montoya' date='03 July 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1278188245' post='895696']
I'm against amnesty for illegal immigrants, which is pretty much what Obama and the Democrats want to do. [b]It's cynical politics in an attempt to grant citizenship to millions of new prospective voters.[/b]
[/quote]


They're just stealing a page from Regan's book.

What's good for the goose...
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[quote name='Elflocko' date='03 July 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1278188610' post='895698']
They're just stealing a page from Regan's book.

What's good for the goose...
[/quote]


Yeah, that happened in 1986 after Reagan had already won re-election and wouldn't face voters again.
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[quote name='Inigo Montoya' date='03 July 2010 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1278191034' post='895702']
Yeah, that happened in 1986 after Reagan had already won re-election and wouldn't face voters again.
[/quote]

He might not have been running but other Republicans were...
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[quote name='Elflocko' date='03 July 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1278195483' post='895707']
He might not have been running but other Republicans were...
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The difference is that Obama wants to do it BEFORE he runs for re-election in 2012. And instead of a couple million being granted amnesty like in 1986, now we'd be talking about 20-25 million.

BTW, Republicans lost 5 House seats and 8 Senate seats in 1986.
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[quote name='Inigo Montoya' date='04 July 2010 - 08:01 AM' timestamp='1278255707' post='895767']
The difference is that Obama wants to do it BEFORE he runs for re-election in 2012. And instead of a couple million being granted amnesty like in 1986, now we'd be talking about 20-25 million.

BTW, Republicans lost 5 House seats and 8 Senate seats in 1986.
[/quote]

Willing to bet the recession of '85-86 had more to do with that than any amnesty...
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