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[quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 May 2010 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1274241886' post='889158']
yes, I addressed your quote while also discussing a broader topic at the same time. It's not all about you and your ego Jamie.
[/quote]


ok and if your address me im going to respond to it, that has nothing to do with "ego" :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Bunghole' date='19 May 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1274268022' post='889163']
I agree that I have a flaw, and the cure for that is...[size="5"]more cowbell![/size]

Seriously, it isn't as much about emotional shit (although there is some truth to that, I hate getting all worked up over the Reds and getting my poor widdle feelings trampled on when they have the post all-star collapse year after year), but ultimately to me its more about the time investment. If my team perennially sucks it becomes harder and harder for me to justify trying to catch all the games on TV/radio and going to more than a couple games at GABP when quite simply there are better things I can be doing with my time because I sacrifice other things I could be doing with my life or family to watch them. If the product sucks, I'll only keep buying it for so long.

And then of course, predictably, I fall into the trap again the following season.

Anyway, if there's any recent Reds team that's for real, I do think its this one. Color me cautiously optimistic.
[/quote]


Completely agree

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 May 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1274270907' post='889168']
I just don't see what the trap is. Root cheer, get your hopes up, spend as much time as you see fit. It's just sports. There should be no trap to get caught in regardless of the outcome.


Do you go to see a movie because its entertaining or because its oscar worthy? Sports, like movies, are nothing more than entertainment. Something you can get lost in in the moment, and then disconnect from once its over.

The end of the season is like the end of a movie. The ending may leave you happy or disappointed, but regardless its not going to make much of a difference in your life in the real world once you walk out of that theater.
[/quote]


Then that goes the other way too right? Rudi said he gets the payoff more because he has attended more games and thus has more "invested", or do only the fans who arent "positive" need the psychotherapy?
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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 May 2010 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1274275906' post='889182']


Then that goes the other way too right? Rudi said he gets the payoff more because he has attended more games and thus has more "invested", or do only the fans who arent "positive" need the psychotherapy?
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I don't fully share his stance. I do agree with him to a point about the more you put in, the more you get out. Just look at us. We'd probably take more from a Bengals Super Bowl win than your bandwagon fan out there. Longterm though, it makes no difference in our lives.

Doesn't change the fact that you, and others, are afraid of getting "hurt" by the Reds and in turn will hold back. That's dumb. It's sports. If you're worried about "falling for it" as you say, that's on you.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 May 2010 - 09:47 AM' timestamp='1274276852' post='889186']
I don't fully share his stance. I do agree with him to a point about the more you put in, the more you get out. Just look at us. We'd probably take more from a Bengals Super Bowl win than your bandwagon fan out there. Longterm though, it makes no difference in our lives.

Doesn't change the fact that you, and others, are afraid of getting "hurt" by the Reds and in turn will hold back. That's dumb. It's sports. If you're worried about "falling for it" as you say, that's on you.
[/quote]


ah so you do have an emotional investment in the team
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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 May 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1274277092' post='889187']
ah so you do have an emotional investment in the team
[/quote]


short term, in the moment,sure we all do. But at the end of the day (most times within 5 minutes), whether the Bengals and Reds win means little to me and my life. They don't "break my heart" as you would say. I'm not afraid to get my hopes up like you because you think they might hurt you. You're afraid of getting emotionally invested and getting let down. It's sports. Unless you're actually playing in the game, you shouldn't be getting that emotional about it.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 May 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1274277525' post='889191']
short term, in the moment,sure we all do. But at the end of the day (most times within 5 minutes), whether the Bengals and Reds win means little to me and my life. They don't "break my heart" as you would say. I'm not afraid to get my hopes up like you because you think they might hurt you. You're afraid of getting emotionally invested and getting let down. It's sports. Unless you're actually playing in the game, you shouldn't be getting that emotional about it.
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[quote]We'd probably take more from a Bengals Super Bowl win than your bandwagon fan out there.[/quote]

That implies that you have more invested than just a day out of the week.
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Dusty Baker gets it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100519&content_id=10193596&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[quote]"Around here, people are still a little skeptical," said Reds manager Dusty Baker. "Because a lot of times the team started off good and by August, you can't find them. I don't think this is that kind of team. Then again, you have to have things go right, too. You have to have good health, No. 1, which we didn't have last year.[/quote]
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You still don't get my point...i understand that people are still skeptical and don't want to assume we are a great team because of a 40 game stretch. What I don't get is why fans would let that skepticism would prevent anyone from going to games and supporting their team (which this thread is about, attendance). I understand the midset ''well we've started off well before and lost it''. But does that mean you shouldn't go to games and support your team? Hell no, and to anyone that thinks they shouldn't go to a game now because we might not stay in contention in the future is a bad fan imo.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' date='19 May 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1274270907' post='889168']
I just don't see what the trap is. Root cheer, get your hopes up, spend as much time as you see fit. It's just sports. There should be no trap to get caught in regardless of the outcome.


Do you go to see a movie because its entertaining or because its oscar worthy? Sports, like movies, are nothing more than entertainment. Something you can get lost in in the moment, and then disconnect from once its over.

The end of the season is like the end of a movie. The ending may leave you happy or disappointed, but regardless its not going to make much of a difference in your life in the real world once you walk out of that theater.
[/quote]

The "trap" (and this term I used is hyperbolic to a degree) is that the better they play, the more I want to watch them, which means less time with my kids, wife, doing shit around the house that needs done, etc. And once I'm in that mode, its difficult for me to stop even when they start losing because I'm enough of a homer to keep watching and believing that they will turn it around, and to date they never really have.

Its best for me if the Reds are either really good, thus justifying my game-watching time, or really suck so I can avoid them outright so I'm not spending hours and hours a week watching them.

I already ignore my family during the Bengals season...I can only justify doing so during baseball season if we're really good!

:lol:

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='18 May 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1274232233' post='889090']
what a bunch of crap

someone that waits and see can still follow the team but not get excited about it until it means something

so spare me this banwagon garbage and realize the difference
[/quote]



Now you spare me your crap you friggin a-hole.

Someone said something about going to games and supporting
this team (which this thread is about) and you said
"Because if they are like me you dont want to fall for it only to get your heart broken again."

That is the definition of a bandwagon fan.


You call people "Homers" like it is some derogatory term.
Yet, when people point out YOU are a bandwagon fan, you
act like you are all butt hurt.

Just STFU already. Geez.



[quote name='Jamie_B' date='18 May 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1274232424' post='889091']
there is passion and there is blindness to reality
[/quote]


The reality is that they are a 1st place team, have had some very exciting games
and people should get off their dumbasses and support them now, and enjoy
them now, rather than wait for September.


[quote name='Bunghole' date='18 May 2010 - 08:51 PM' timestamp='1274233910' post='889099']
Now wait a minute, Old. I'm going to take Jamie's side on this for a moment because the Reds, unlike the Bengals, haven't really given fans a reason to hope for much recently as compared to what the Bengals have done. I can't avoid comparing the two, because to me, I pretty much like them about equally (even if I tend to like football more than baseball in general) but I am tired of early season histrionics by the Reds, only to be utterly disappointed, scraping along sports-wise until at least pre-season can relieve my Reds constant loop of mediocrity.

The Reds have been pretty shitty ever since I lived here and became a fan of both local teams in 1992, the 1996 playoffs and 1998 "Al Leiter game" notwithstanding.

[b]I root for the Reds hardcore[/b], but I simply cannot see why anyone would call out someone else for expressing doubt about an outcome to a Reds season that has been pretty much playing itself out on a loop since 1997.

The Bengals have done more to get better than the Reds in recent years. Maybe the Reds are for real this season, I don't know! I hope they are! I want them to be!

But it doesn't mean that expressing reservations about a sports team makes you any less of a fan of that team. Or that you don't openly support them during brief periods (thank the length of the baseball season) of goodness when the track record is shit.

FTR, I still go to a couple games a year...watch a few, listen to a few...but my interest level has been eclipsed by the Bengals due to the fact that the Bengals have been better than the Reds for awhile and that I like football better than baseball in general.

There's no harm in expressing doubt about the Reds current short-lived success. When's the last time they've done that over the course of a season? 1990?

Its fair.
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This thread is about fans NOT going to games. If you are waiting to go to games,
then yes, you are a bandwagon fan. It's that simple.
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[quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='19 May 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1274286253' post='889227']
You still don't get my point...i understand that people are still skeptical and don't want to assume we are a great team because of a 40 game stretch. What I don't get is why fans would let that skepticism would prevent anyone from going to games and supporting their team (which this thread is about, attendance). I understand the midset ''well we've started off well before and lost it''. But does that mean you shouldn't go to games and support your team? Hell no, and to anyone that thinks they shouldn't go to a game now because we might not stay in contention in the future is a bad fan imo.
[/quote]

How did that line of thinking work out for the Bengals? People eventually get tired of not just the losing but a perceived lack of effort on the part of management to do anything about the product on the field. Obviously the Bengals aren't like that now anymore (thank God!) but if a season ticket holder gave up their seats in frustration after a decade of not only not winning but being just a horrible team, can you blame them?
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bung the best way to compare it would be like to this years bengals team...theyve had a history of losing, like the reds, and came out strong like the reds and still had a tough time selling out. If a bengals fan told me he wasn't going to go to a bengals game that year with the sole reason being because in the past we haven't been good or in the past we have started out well and ended up not being good I would call that fan a bad fan and a bandwagon fan.
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[quote name='Bunghole' date='19 May 2010 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1274286919' post='889230']
How did that line of thinking work out for the Bengals? People eventually get tired of not just the losing but a perceived lack of effort on the part of management to do anything about the product on the field. Obviously the Bengals aren't like that now anymore (thank God!) but if a season ticket holder gave up their seats in frustration after a decade of not only not winning but being just a horrible team, can you blame them?
[/quote]



First off, Cincy is supposed to be a "Baseball town".

So comparing the Reds to the Bengals is like comparing apples to oranges.

And the Reds are playing exciting ball NOW. They are in 1st place NOW.
Waiting to see if they remain in 1st place for a few months before going
to games doesn't make much sense to me. Unless you are a bandwagon fan.
What they did in the past makes no sense to me either. Unless you are a bandwagon fan.

Either you are a fan and want to go watch games live and in person. Or you are a bandwagon
fan and want to wait to see if they can sustain the brand of ball they are playing now before
going to see them in person. But like I said, Cincy is a bandwagon town. The fans think the
teams have to validate them being a fan with wins.
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[quote name='oldschooler' date='19 May 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1274286354' post='889229']
Now you spare me your crap you friggin a-hole.

Someone said something about going to games and supporting
this team (which this thread is about) and you said
"Because if they are like me you dont want to fall for it only to get your heart broken again."

That is the definition of a bandwagon fan.


You call people "Homers" like it is some derogatory term.
Yet, when people point out YOU are a bandwagon fan, you
act like you are all butt hurt.

Just STFU already. Geez.






The reality is that they are a 1st place team, have had some very exciting games
and people should get off their dumbasses and support them now, and enjoy
them now, rather than wait for September.




This thread is about fans NOT going to games. If you are waiting to go to games,
then yes, you are a bandwagon fan. It's that simple.
[/quote]

I watch and listen to games when I can [i]now [/i]and I have for [i]years[/i]. I don't go to many Bengals games or Reds games due to the cost, the fact that Reds games are mostly on weekday nights when I work early every morning (or on the weekends when I also work every Saturday and Sunday). I love going to the ballpark a couple times a year when I can do it, no matter how shitty the Reds are or have been.

But the fact remains that someone that chooses to no longer go to games until they see improvement in the product on the field is not only within their rights to do so, but that doesn't make them a bandwagon fan, either.
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[quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='19 May 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1274287160' post='889233']
bung the best way to compare it would be like to this years bengals team...theyve had a history of losing, like the reds, and came out strong like the reds and still had a tough time selling out. If a bengals fan told me he wasn't going to go to a bengals game that year with the sole reason being because in the past we haven't been good or in the past we have started out well and ended up not being good I would call that fan a bad fan and a bandwagon fan.
[/quote]

I think its easier for football because of how comparatively few games there are. If your football tam starts out 8-0, chances are they are going to the playoffs. If your baseball team does the same, its indicative of practically nothing, as there's still 154 more games to go.
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[quote name='CincyInDC' date='19 May 2010 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1274287587' post='889239']
This shit still going on? Get your asses to the game already.
[/quote]

Yeah Jamie, you bandwagon fan, if you were a [i]real[/i] fan you'd be hopping a flight to GABP at least once a week! What's wrong with you? Real fans sell their houses and quit their jobs to follow the Reds around like the Grateful Dead!
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[quote name='oldschooler' date='19 May 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1274286354' post='889229']
Now you spare me your crap you friggin a-hole.

Someone said something about going to games and supporting
this team (which this thread is about) and you said
"Because if they are like me you dont want to fall for it only to get your heart broken again."

That is the definition of a bandwagon fan.


You call people "Homers" like it is some derogatory term.
Yet, when people point out YOU are a bandwagon fan, you
act like you are all butt hurt.

Just STFU already. Geez.






The reality is that they are a 1st place team, have had some very exciting games
and people should get off their dumbasses and support them now, and enjoy
them now, rather than wait for September.




This thread is about fans NOT going to games. If you are waiting to go to games,
then yes, you are a bandwagon fan. It's that simple.
[/quote]


lick my nuts
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[quote name='Bunghole' date='19 May 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1274287554' post='889238']
But the fact remains that someone that chooses to no longer go to games until they see improvement in the product on the field is not only within their rights to do so, but that doesn't make them a bandwagon fan, either.
[/quote]



Sure it is their right. But it does make them bandwagon fans.

Definiton of bandwagon: a popular trend that attracts growing support; "when they saw how things were going everybody jumped on the bandwagon"


Now knowing the definition, how can you say that those fans aren't bandwagon fans?
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[quote name='Bunghole' date='19 May 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1274287554' post='889238']
I watch and listen to games when I can [i]now [/i]and I have for [i]years[/i]. I don't go to many Bengals games or Reds games due to the cost, the fact that Reds games are mostly on weekday nights when I work early every morning (or on the weekends when I also work every Saturday and Sunday). I love going to the ballpark a couple times a year when I can do it, no matter how shitty the Reds are or have been.

But the fact remains that someone that chooses to no longer go to games until they see improvement in the product on the field is not only within their rights to do so, but that doesn't make them a bandwagon fan, either.
[/quote]


this
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[quote name='Bunghole' date='19 May 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1274287820' post='889244']
Yeah Jamie, you bandwagon fan, if you were a [i]real[/i] fan you'd be hopping a flight to GABP at least once a week! What's wrong with you? Real fans sell their houses and quit their jobs to follow the Reds around like the Grateful Dead!
[/quote]


hahaha

Would that make me a "Red Head"

and not the evil ginger type :lol:

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[quote name='oldschooler' date='19 May 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1274288162' post='889248']
Sure it is their right. But it does make them bandwagon fans.

Definiton of bandwagon: a popular trend that attracts growing support; "when they saw how things were going everybody jumped on the bandwagon"


Now knowing the definition, how can you say that those fans aren't bandwagon fans?
[/quote]

In your mind, does the term "casual fan" mean the same thing as "bandwagon fan"?
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