Hey fellers

[oftt4]

Excuses excuses. Ben won a SB with the worst OL in the league. If your QB needs an "all-pro offensive line" in front of him to play a decent game, then he isnt much of a QB.


Palmer has regressed every year he has been in the league.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3343_CHFF_Father_of_the_Year_with_deep_thoughts_on_Palmer%2C_Henne.html

"Since the beginning of the 2008 season, Palmer has average 5.7 YPA in an injury shortened 2008, 6.6 in 2009 and, so far in 2010, 5.8 YPA.

His aggregate QB rating between 2005 and 2007 was 93.6. Since 2008, it has dropped to 78.9.

For years, the Bengals appeared to be Carson Palmer and a bunch of stiffs. Now, they appear to have a pretty decent team but Carson Palmer has been stuck doing a Jon Kitna impersonation."


Everyone's fault but his? Not according to Scout's Inc.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/18258/whats-wrong-with-carson-palmer

How would you rate the pass protection Palmer is getting?

MW: I would say average. The offensive line was built to be the biggest, baddest group in the AFC North. I thought they accomplished that last year. They were the most physical team in the division last year. The offensive line is all big, heavy, run-blocking first type of guys. Andrew Whitworth isn't your usual left tackle, but he's a big guy to run behind. That's pretty much the case all along the offensive line. They stress size as opposed to movement. I would say their protection is never going to be wonderful, because they're just not very agile. They are built for the power running game.


How much blame does Palmer deserve for Cincinnati's offensive struggles?

Williamson: He looks absolutely terrible, and I think it's him. I don't know if it's all the injuries -- the elbow, the knee and the thumb -- and each is taking a little bit away from him. But Palmer doesn't throw the football anything like he used to. He's making bad decisions, which is unlike him. Palmer thinks he can get the ball in better than he can, and the ball doesn't get there with the same velocity as the version of five years ago. Defenses are breaking on the ball, and he probably had five or six interceptions dropped already. Palmer could've had way worse numbers, and he's fortunate he didn't have more balls picked off.

[Jamie_B]

You're really going to quote an article from someone who use to be a scout for the Cleveland Browns? Really?


(snickers)

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1285712533' post='924046']
And how do we know that she didnt make the whole thing up? We dont.

Believe what you want to believe. It doesnt change anything. I just go on believing the facts, the evidence, and the law.



So, would anyone like to talk about football?
[/quote]



because there's a long history of it. It's not the first time he's been accused, and ask people who attended Miami University while he was there. He's got a consistent patter of reckless behavior and pulling the same shit she accused him of.


It wasn't an isolated incident.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286029343' post='925236']
You're really going to quote an article from someone who use to be a scout for the Cleveland Browns? Really?


(snickers)
[/quote]

Yes, key word being "scout", i.e. professional evaluator of talent. And it isnt as is he is saying anything that isnt obvious anyway. How many people have to say the same thing before you start to believe it? Palmer's OL may not be great, but it is average. And he misses WIDE OPEN receivers even when there is no pressure on him.

You guys are drafting a QB come April.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1286113096' post='925367']
Yes, key word being "scout", i.e. professional evaluator of talent. And it isnt as is he is saying anything that isnt obvious anyway. How many people have to say the same thing before you start to believe it? Palmer's OL may not be great, but it is average. And he misses WIDE OPEN receivers even when there is no pressure on him.

You guys are drafting a QB come April.
[/quote]


Yes and Cleveland sure had alot of talent when he was there.

We arent drafting a QB. Get out of town.

We will be drafting RB, CB, or OL in 1 depending on if we can keep Ced and Jospeh or which we choose to tag between the two if we cant keep either.

[|Bunghole|]

Oh, we'll probably be drafting a QB allright....just not in rounds 1-3.

[oftt4]

Just gotta give props to Jamie. I was reading a thread in the other forum and while most everyone else seemed to blame the refs, you actually held your team accountable. Congrats! That is the first step to becoming a grownup!

I felt that the refs missed two big false start calls against the Ravens, the timimg of which could have changed the game. But the Steelers didnt lose because of the refs. They lost because Jeff Reed missed 2 field goals. They lost because they couldnt manage to get 10 yards to ice the game at the end. They lost because the D let Joe freaking Flacco look like Joe Montana on the game winning drive. They lost because, given the ball on the Ravens 35 yard line TWICE in the game via turnover...they scored ZERO points from it.

Anyway, while some of my bretheren are down about losing a game that could have easily been won...I am just happy to be 3-1 (and really, about 10 yards from being 4-0) while playing with our 3rd and 4th string QB's. I think the Steelers have a legitimate shot at winning 13-14 games this season, barring injury. Gotta love that 3rd place schedule.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1286196179' post='926502']
Just gotta give props to Jamie. I was reading a thread in the other forum and while most everyone else seemed to blame the refs, you actually held your team accountable. Congrats! That is the first step to becoming a grownup!

I felt that the refs missed two big false start calls against the Ravens, the timimg of which could have changed the game. But the Steelers didnt lose because of the refs. They lost because Jeff Reed missed 2 field goals. They lost because they couldnt manage to get 10 yards to ice the game at the end. They lost because the D let Joe freaking Flacco look like Joe Montana on the game winning drive. They lost because, given the ball on the Ravens 35 yard line TWICE in the game via turnover...they scored ZERO points from it.

Anyway, while some of my bretheren are down about losing a game that could have easily been won...I am just happy to be 3-1 (and really, about 10 yards from being 4-0) while playing with our 3rd and 4th string QB's. I think the Steelers have a legitimate shot at winning 13-14 games this season, barring injury. Gotta love that 3rd place schedule.
[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

btw Palmer looked good outside of a dumb fumble.

we aint drafting no QB

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286200249' post='926534']
btw Palmer looked good outside of a dumb fumble.

we aint drafting no QB
[/quote]

We'll see. He put up good numbers against a bad team (though if the CB didnt fall down, the long TO TD probably wouldnt have happened). Anyway, he did fumble twice...that doesnt show up in passer rating.

To quote the game recap:
"Cincinnati’s offense finally lived up to its preseason hype, but failed to come through down the stretch." Big numbers dont mean anything if you dont deliver when it counts.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1286202865' post='926550']
We'll see. He put up good numbers against a bad team (though if the CB didnt fall down, the long TO TD probably wouldnt have happened). Anyway, he did fumble twice...that doesnt show up in passer rating.

To quote the game recap:
"Cincinnati’s offense finally lived up to its preseason hype, but failed to come through down the stretch." Big numbers dont mean anything if you dont deliver when it counts.
[/quote]


Im guessing you didnt see the pregame show? (neither did so Im still looking for the video, but apparently charlie casserly went through some tape showing bengals practices and the games where the WRs were running the right routes in practice but not in games, saying the stuff going on is largely the fault of the WRs.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286204361' post='926567']
Im guessing you didnt see the pregame show? (neither did so Im still looking for the video, but apparently charlie casserly went through some tape showing bengals practices and the games where the WRs were running the right routes in practice but not in games, saying the stuff going on is largely the fault of the WRs.
[/quote]

To quote Bill Belichick:

"Who's been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? Wherever he's been, whatever he's done, his percentage is like a meteorologist."

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1286224175' post='926731']
To quote Bill Belichick:

"Who's been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? Wherever he's been, whatever he's done, his percentage is like a meteorologist."


[/quote]


Charley Casserly >>>>> Matt Williamson

(I mean at least Casserly has drafted some top talent)

[scharm]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1285393092' post='922233']
I'm gonna be doing my masters in IT at Va Tech once I finish up this last year at Mason, but mine is geared towards software architecture so that I can design large scale distributed systems.
[/quote]

Here let me save you some time. "Did you try restarting it?"

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1286394967' post='927404']
Here let me save you some time. "Did you try restarting it?"
[/quote]

[oftt4]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1286394967' post='927404']
Here let me save you some time. "Did you try restarting it?"
[/quote]

Good one. The technicians mantra...reboot it, if that doesnt work replace it.

[oftt4]

And the funeral bell rings again for Palmer's NFL career.

[PutWittyNameHere]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1286751461' post='929309']
And the funeral bell rings again for Palmer's NFL career.
[/quote]

That thing has been ringing for so long, it should be about worn out.

[oftt4]

I think the Carson Palmer apologists, in blaming the Oline, the WR's, the coaches, the weather, the alignment of the planets....are ignoring the obvious pattern.

Look at his year by year passer rating, ignoring his rookie year and 2008 (since he only played 4 games).

2005 - 101.1
2006 - 93.9
2007 - 86.7
2009 - 83.6
2010 - 78.3 (so far)

It doesnt take a statistician to see the trend there. Palmer has regressed every year he has been in the league, despite getting a better defense to help him out, despite getting all the offensive weapons the Bengals can afford.

It's time to face reality.

[Jamie_B]

Put up or shut up. Sig bet.

We dont draft a QB in the first 3 rounds next year and every one of your anti-palmer sig quotes gets taken off in favor of a text based sig of my choosing.


We do and I take the Ben ones out of my sig in favor of a text based sig of your choosing.


We keep it from draft day until the first game between our teams.


Otherwise STFU with your Palmer agenda.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1287011496' post='930705']
I think the Carson Palmer apologists, in blaming the Oline, the WR's, the coaches, the weather, the alignment of the planets....are ignoring the obvious pattern.

Look at his year by year passer rating, ignoring his rookie year and 2008 (since he only played 4 games).

2005 - 101.1
2006 - 93.9
2007 - 86.7
2009 - 83.6
2010 - 78.3 (so far)

It doesnt take a statistician to see the trend there. Palmer has regressed every year he has been in the league, despite getting a better defense to help him out, despite getting all the offensive weapons the Bengals can afford.

It's time to face reality.
[/quote]
It doesn't take a statistician, no, but a little objectivity. Notice how precipitously his QB rating drops from 2006 to 2007? That's the watermark for the erosion of an offensive line that played at a very high level from 2004-2006. Sure, some QB's can play well with shit for an offensive line, but Palmer can't. Losing your starting LT, LG, C and RT over the course of a season or so and replacing them with lesser talent really had an impact on Palmer's performance. I'm not going to sit here and act like Palmer is just as good as he was in 2005-2006, because he isn't, but there are mitigating factors at work here.

And that good defense you mentioned? He only enjoyed that luxury ONCE, and that was last season. Which of course coincided with the elimination due to injury of both starting TE's in training camp, the injury and then death of Chris Henry (our last viable tall, speedy downfield threat), our switch to a run-first mentality because that's all our patchwork line was really good at, and then finally, our offense being exposed as one-dimensional due to a lack of viable passing options not numbered 85 and the erosion of the defense because of injuries to Roy Williams, Rey Maualuga, Antwan Odom, Chris Crocker and the inability down the stretch to keep the ailing defense off the field due to offensive miscues, and there you have it.

This season has been a mess of elevated expectations. The whole team looks like shit. Yeah, Palmer isn't playing great but there are again mitigating factors that affect his (and any QB's) play. I don't think he and Chad are connecting well. TO and Chad are dropping passes, or not fighting for close balls when a defender is nearby. The playcalling is extremely suspect especially late in games. I think Chad and TO are freelancing routes too, which affects a rhythm QB like Palmer. There's a reason the no-huddle has worked so well for us this season. Less OC input, no defensive subs, timing is down...

And the defense isn't playing well, either, outside of generating turnovers. Our lack of a pass rush continues to haunt us. Our run defense is normally good but prone to giving up big runs. Palmer is off and makes some bad throws (but this isn't because he's "done" or some such shit...and he isn't injured either...he's playing with the hand he's been dealt in terms of his surrounding cast and isn't as mobile or elusive as say, Ben Rothlisberger)...its a soup of combining problems (penalties...we lead the league in false start penalties, paralyzing offensive drives, affecting playcalls) that are affecting this team, all across the organization. Blaming Carson for all this team's ills is folly, and so is acting like he's all washed up.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1287011496' post='930705']
I think the Carson Palmer apologists, in blaming the Oline, the WR's, the coaches, the weather, the alignment of the planets....are ignoring the obvious pattern.

Look at his year by year passer rating, ignoring his rookie year and 2008 (since he only played 4 games).

2005 - 101.1
2006 - 93.9
2007 - 86.7
2009 - 83.6
2010 - 78.3 (so far)

It doesnt take a statistician to see the trend there. Palmer has regressed every year he has been in the league, despite getting a better defense to help him out, despite getting all the offensive weapons the Bengals can afford.

It's time to face reality.
[/quote]



odd that his numbers drop when he loses his pro bowl caliber center, pro bowl caliber LT, and pro bowl RT all in the same year. And since then the team has only used 2 7th round picks, a 1st round pick, 2 4th round picks, and a 5th round pick in FOUR drafts to replace them and provide depth.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1287012256' post='930711']
Put up or shut up. Sig bet.

We dont draft a QB in the first 3 rounds next year and every one of your anti-palmer sig quotes gets taken off in favor of a text based sig of my choosing.


We do and I take the Ben ones out of my sig in favor of a text based sig of your choosing.


We keep it from draft day until the first game between our teams.


Otherwise STFU with your Palmer agenda.
[/quote]

LOL

Ok, sure...whatever you want. Though, that would leave open the possibility of a trade and/or quality free agent signing which would technically make me lose the bet while still proving my point.

It isnt really an agenda, it is simply pointing out the facts. I am hardly the only one who has noticed. I could post a dozen articles (actually, they have already been posted in the other forum) that same the same thing. Hell, many of the members of the forum say the same thing.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1287015634' post='930730']
odd that his numbers drop when he loses his pro bowl caliber center, pro bowl caliber LT, and pro bowl RT all in the same year. And since then the team has only used 2 7th round picks, a 1st round pick, 2 4th round picks, and a 5th round pick in FOUR drafts to replace them and provide depth.
[/quote]

Odd that he needs pro bowl caliber players across the line to perform as a 1st round pick should. Not many QB's in the league have that luxury.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1287013498' post='930719']
Blaming Carson for all this team's ills is folly, and so is acting like he's all washed up.
[/quote]

I am not necessarily blaming him for all of the team's ills. I am offering a counter argument to the sentiment expressed by many here that it is everyone else's fault BUT Palmer's.