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firefighters watch house burn down


kennethmw

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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1286384611' post='927298']
What part of the guy saying that he would pay whatever it cost for the firefighters to put out the fire BEFORE it got to his house did you miss? He wasn't asking someone else to pay for the service, and he wasn't asking for them to only charge him $75 dollars. He, AS WELL AS HIS NEIGHBOR, were willing to pay what it cost to get the fire doused, so he wasn't asking for a handout, he was asking for technical support that HE WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR.
[/quote]

He didn't call before the fire started, it was already on his property burning in two barrels in his yard.

You can do that. If I get in a wreck, I cant call the insurance company and have them flip a switch to turn the policy on. At minimum, they will make me wait a day before the policy starts.
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1286385750' post='927311']
Really? It actually sounds to me that someone is trying to justify why it's OK to let someone's HOME burn down. Guess who that is.
[/quote]

Yea cuz the news is never wrong and never over sensationalizes anything...

Olberman = Limbaugh for liberals....

Huffington Post = Fox News for liberals....
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1286386491' post='927316']
He didn't call before the fire started, it was already on his property burning in[b] two barrels in his yard. [/b]

You can do that. If I get in a wreck, I cant call the insurance company and have them flip a switch to turn the policy on. At minimum, they will make me wait a day before the policy starts.
[/quote]

And according to the owner, he called the FD, told them that he couldn't get it put out and that he was willing to pay the cost to have them put it out. He didn't ask them to pay the "premium" and then have them suck up the balance of the cost, he offered to pay for the entire cost. The proper analogy would be he was driving down the road and his brakes went out and he hit a tree, without insurance, denting the fender. He then called AAA and they said his policy had expired with them, so instead of sending a tow truck to tow his vehicle to the shop at full price to get the brakes and current damage corrected, he needed to drive it to the shop, and if he totaled it who gives a shit.
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1286387529' post='927329']
And according to the owner, he called the FD, told them that he couldn't get it put out and that he was willing to pay the cost to have them put it out. He didn't ask them to pay the "premium" and then have them suck up the balance of the cost, he offered to pay for the entire cost. The proper analogy would be he was driving down the road and his brakes went out and he hit a tree, without insurance, denting the fender. He then called AAA and they said his policy had expired with them, so instead of sending a tow truck to tow his vehicle to the shop at full price to get the brakes and current damage corrected, he needed to drive it to the shop, and if he totaled it who gives a shit.
[/quote]

...and obviously you took the owner at face value....but no one else knows what they are talking about...

There is [b]NO WAY[/b] a fire he could not put out himself could take [b]2 HOURS[/b] to spread from barrels to his house. Period.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286387198' post='927324']
Yea cuz the news is never wrong and never over sensationalizes anything...

Olberman = Limbaugh for liberals....

Huffington Post = Fox News for liberals....
[/quote]

Well here's what a real firefighter says

As a recently retired Fire Rescue Chief this flat peeves me off. I started my career two decades ago as a volunteer Firefighter/EMT and ended my career with the Honor of answering to the title of Chief (for those it matters to it was Career over a combination department) and not once during my career did I ever respond and fail to do my duty nor refuse to respond to call. When a call came in we went and did our job and duty. An this includes during the days I was with departments and districts that did not receive any tax funding, very little money from the state annually and lived mostly off of membership dues. The way it works is you respond to the call, do your duty and then when the flames are out you find out if the property owner is a dues paid member, if they are not you give them five business days to get into the office and pay their dues and if they did not you sent them a bill for services (for us it started at $350 for the first truck $150 for each additional truck and if over 4 hours was spent on the call it was an extra $100 per truck per hour),(hum might their insurance pay it) and if they did not pay the bill in six months after legally required notices were sent you sued them and/or got the state A.G. to collect it for you (which they always did even if it was in payments). Now the Authority that the Fire Chief answers to needs removed from office and the Chief Officers of the department need relieved of duty, the SOG’s/SOP’s and administrative policies need reworked and the rank and file firefighters need retrained on duty, ethics and morals. They had a professional duty, ethical, moral and legal responsibility to disobey unlawful orders and fulfill their duty to their community and thy neighbor. [b]In my entire career I have never seen a basic firefighting manual that did not have the following in its first chapter if not in the first couples of pages (straight from the National Fire Protection Association)“The Goals of Firefighting are (in order of priority) personal safety, saving victims’ lives, saving property and protecting the environment” no where do I see anything about dues or money.[/b] The rank and file firefighter and line officers are suppose to worry about their duty and maintaining the oath of service they took. The Chief Officers and the authority that the Chief answers to are suppose to worry about the money and that concern should NEVER stop a department from performing its duties to the community in times of emergency calls.
Sincerely,
Timothy F. Griepp Fire Chief (Ret.)
MS FEM, CEM

And you can blame the news all you want, but if you can't see this is wrong, then I feel sorry for your upbringing, and I hope when you are down on your luck someone will help you out, even though you probably wouldn't return the favor.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1286382044' post='927285']
Yeah we're talking about $75. The guy shouldn't have tried to stick it to the man. He should have just paid it.

If they put out his fire, how many others would think that the fee was now optional? What would happen to the fire department? They don't work for free. If people just stop paying their fees because there is no consequence, then what? No fire protection for anyone.

The rule is stupid but the man knew the rule. He made his choice. He seemed to accept responsibility and admit he was wrong.
[/quote]


Another that doesnt believe he just forgot.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286387744' post='927331']
...and obviously you took the owner at face value....but no one else knows what they are talking about...

There is [b]NO WAY[/b] a fire he could not put out himself could take [b]2 HOURS[/b] to spread from barrels to his house. Period.
[/quote]

EXCUSES, EXCUSES, all you have is EXCUSES. TYPICAL REPUBLICAN.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286387885' post='927334']
Another that doesnt believe he just forgot.
[/quote]

Dude, watch the non-Fox News version of the video. He says he didn't pay it. He never mentions he forgot. I bet he was coaxed into saying he forgot. If I forgot, it would be the first thing I said. I wouldn't say "I thought they would still put out my fire even if I didn't pay it. I guess I was wrong.". I would be like, "Oh shit, I must have forgotten! I know how important having that protection is, I just flat out forgot to send in my check."
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1286387759' post='927332']
[b]Well here's what a real firefighter says[/b]

As a recently retired Fire Rescue Chief this flat peeves me off. I started my career two decades ago as a volunteer Firefighter/EMT and ended my career with the Honor of answering to the title of Chief (for those it matters to it was Career over a combination department) and not once during my career did I ever respond and fail to do my duty nor refuse to respond to call. When a call came in we went and did our job and duty. An this includes during the days I was with departments and districts that did not receive any tax funding, very little money from the state annually and lived mostly off of membership dues. The way it works is you respond to the call, do your duty and then when the flames are out you find out if the property owner is a dues paid member, if they are not you give them five business days to get into the office and pay their dues and if they did not you sent them a bill for services (for us it started at $350 for the first truck $150 for each additional truck and if over 4 hours was spent on the call it was an extra $100 per truck per hour),(hum might their insurance pay it) and if they did not pay the bill in six months after legally required notices were sent you sued them and/or got the state A.G. to collect it for you (which they always did even if it was in payments). Now the Authority that the Fire Chief answers to needs removed from office and the Chief Officers of the department need relieved of duty, the SOG’s/SOP’s and administrative policies need reworked and the rank and file firefighters need retrained on duty, ethics and morals. They had a professional duty, ethical, moral and legal responsibility to disobey unlawful orders and fulfill their duty to their community and thy neighbor. In my entire career I have never seen a basic firefighting manual that did not have the following in its first chapter if not in the first couples of pages (straight from the National Fire Protection Association)“The Goals of Firefighting are (in order of priority) personal safety, saving victims’ lives, saving property and protecting the environment” no where do I see anything about dues or money. The rank and file firefighter and line officers are suppose to worry about their duty and maintaining the oath of service they took. The Chief Officers and the authority that the Chief answers to are suppose to worry about the money and that concern should NEVER stop a department from performing its duties to the community in times of emergency calls.
Sincerely,
Timothy F. Griepp Fire Chief (Ret.)
MS FEM, CEM

And you can blame the news all you want, but if you can't see this is wrong, then I feel sorry for your upbringing, and I hope when you are down on your luck someone will help you out, even though you probably wouldn't return the favor.
[/quote]

Fuck you!

You fucking piece of shit!

The only thing obvious in this thread is you have no fucking clue what you are talking about!

Hey dipshit: The fire dept in question's first responsibility is to it's tax base. Period. The people outside their tax base were allowed to buy in. Period. Cranick for whatever reason did not buy in. Period.

Fire trucks cost money. Period.
Firefighers cost money. Period.
Fire hose cost money. Period.
Firefighting tools cost money. Period.
Workers compensation cost money. Period.
It [b]ALL[/b] costs serious money you fucking simpleton.

Cranick lives in an area that is not covered by fire service. The entire system is stupid. His entire municipality should either vote in a levy on their property taxes for their own fire dept or contract as a whole with the neighboring municipality and have it assessed to everyone's property taxes....

Not anywhere in that Chiefs statements did he say he encountered a situation like this....

Ass Hole!

You have proven time and time again that you are an absolute simpleton.

At what point do you keep fighting fires for people who don't pay their "tax" do others stop paying and the entire fire dept goes bankrupt?

or do we get it from Obama's private stash of cash?
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1286388197' post='927338']
Dude, watch the non-Fox News version of the video. He says he didn't pay it. He never mentions he forgot. I bet he was coaxed into saying he forgot. If I forgot, it would be the first thing I said. I wouldn't say "I thought they would still put out my fire even if I didn't pay it. I guess I was wrong.". I would be like, "Oh shit, I must have forgotten! I know how important having that protection is, I just flat out forgot to send in my check."
[/quote]

exactly...

no one really knows for sure if he forgot or just did not pay.

...but as my house was burning down I sure as hell would be saying anything I could to get them to stop it.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286388245' post='927341']
Fuck you!

You fucking piece of shit!

The only thing obvious in this thread is you have no fucking clue what you are talking about!

Hey dipshit: The fire dept in question's first responsibility is to it's tax base. Period. The people outside their tax base were allowed to buy in. Period. Cranick for whatever reason did not buy in. Period.

Fire trucks cost money. Period.
Firefighers cost money. Period.
Fire hose cost money. Period.
Firefighting tools cost money. Period.
Workers compensation cost money. Period.
It [b]ALL[/b] costs serious money you fucking simpleton.

Cranick lives in an area that is not covered by fire service. The entire system is stupid. His entire municipality should either vote in a levy on their property taxes for their own fire dept or contract as a whole with the neighboring municipality and have it assessed to everyone's property taxes....

Not anywhere in that Chiefs statements did he say he encountered a situation like this....

Ass Hole!

You have proven time and time again that you are an absolute simpleton.
[/quote]

The refuge of an idiot is vile language. Since you have already proven that you are an Idiot, I will take the opportunity to express my self in terms you will understand. you are the most lowlife cocksucker on the fucking planet and possibly in the universe. You should have someone ram a hot poker up your ass, to help you use the restroom, because I have not seen a single motherfucker in my life that is full of as much shit as you are, and you obviously need to get it removed. Obviously, the part of spermatoza that contained the humanity ran down your mother's thigh when she was impregnated. Too Bad you father wasn't wearing a condom, the world would be a better place.
:flip: :flip:

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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286388588' post='927346']
Fuck off kenneth! you are on ignore....

You know nothing about me and you question my character and honor as a firefighter.

Go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

I doubt I'll lose any sleep over knowing you put me on ignore. I already have seen that you put all your educators on ignore as well, stupid ass.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1286388197' post='927338']
Dude, watch the non-Fox News version of the video. He says he didn't pay it. He never mentions he forgot. I bet he was coaxed into saying he forgot. If I forgot, it would be the first thing I said. I wouldn't say "I thought they would still put out my fire even if I didn't pay it. I guess I was wrong.". I would be like, "Oh shit, I must have forgotten! I know how important having that protection is, I just flat out forgot to send in my check."
[/quote]


Lets say for arguments sake he didnt forget. Its still going to cost the taxpayer more money than 75 bucks when they have to put him up in a shelter. Simple answer would have been put it out and charge him for the full amount of costs after the fact even if it meant putting a lean on his house. This way he isnt void of personal responsibility and the tax payers aren't footing the bill for a shelter for him for being an idiot.
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1286333796' post='927188']
This "GUY" said he forgot, and offered to pay the entire cost for the FD to put out the fire at his house. That cost would have been less than trying to replace the house along with all the memories. They said NO. That is the part I do not understand. Hell, they could have charged him the cost, and if he didn't pay, attach a Lien to his property that would have ensured that they would get paid. I'm sorry, guys, but it's not letting the house burn down that pisses me off, It's consciously allowing someone's ENTIRE FAMILY to lose their HOME, you know, the place where all their life has been spent. Every Easter, Every Christmas, all the Thanksgivings, the marriages, the births, the DEATHS. I know it happens every day to someone, but I can't think of a single time that it has been by CHOICE. Until now. This is indefensible!!
[/quote]

I must have missed the part where the guy offered to pay the entire cost. I'm going to flip-flop and be on his side then.
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Saw a couple interviews with the guy. First the system is crap, it shouldn't be set up that way. That being said, the owner said a couple times that there was a fire at his sons house who handn't paid and it was put out and he went the next day and paid the $75. This makes me think he was counting on doing this if his house ever caught on fire.

I think the system there should be changed but based on his words alone I can't take his side on this one. Also, if I lived next door and had paid the $75 and got any damage while they were trying to put his out I would be major pissed.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286390092' post='927360']
Lets say for arguments sake he didnt forget. Its still going to cost the taxpayer more money than 75 bucks when they have to put him up in a shelter. Simple answer would have been put it out and charge him for the full amount of costs after the fact even if it meant putting a lean on his house. This way he isnt void of personal responsibility and the tax payers aren't footing the bill for a shelter for him for being an idiot.
[/quote]

Is there any legislation to allow a fire dept to put a lean on someone's house?

Serious question.

Jamie, if you owe me money for work I did on your house can I put a lean on your house?
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[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1286391168' post='927373']
I must have missed the part where the guy offered to pay the entire cost. I'm going to flip-flop and be on his side then.
[/quote]

... the ludicrous part is asking a fire chief to negotiate that at a fire scene.....

Just like Raydogg said...

The entire system in that area is crap and needs to be re-done. This is the first I have ever heard of a single homeowner being allowed to pay in for a fire dept to cover them so I have no idea how widespread the problem is....
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[quote name='RayDoggBengal' timestamp='1286391533' post='927375']
Saw a couple interviews with the guy. First the system is crap, it shouldn't be set up that way. That being said, the owner said a couple times that there was a fire at his sons house who handn't paid and it was put out and he went the next day and paid the $75. This makes me think he was counting on doing this if his house ever caught on fire.

I think the system there should be changed but based on his words alone I can't take his side on this one. Also, if I lived next door and had paid the $75 and got any damage while they were trying to put his out I would be major pissed.
[/quote]

This.

Firefighters and their equipment do not just appear out of thin air because someone has a problem...these things have to be maintained. Resources are limited. What if a second fire had started at a paying customers house and all the resources for the fire dept were tied up on this non-paying persons house?(trust me.. two fires at once does happen)
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286391741' post='927380']
Is there any legislation to allow a fire dept to put a lean on someone's house?

Serious question.

Jamie, if you owe me money for work I did on your house can I put a lean on your house?
[/quote]


I think it depends on the state, but I know people that had a lean put on their paychecks at least, not sure about the house (friend of mine's ex husband and child support) so I dont know for sure but it wouldnt surprise me if it was possible.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286392804' post='927387']
I think it depends on the state, but I know people that had a lean put on their paychecks at least, not sure about the house (friend of mine's ex husband and child support) so I dont know for sure but it wouldnt surprise me if it was possible.
[/quote]

Are the courts involved? Are there court and lawyer costs involved?

If so, is it worth it to take Mr. Cranick to court with all the costs involved to try and recover $75?
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1286393023' post='927390']
Are the courts involved? Are their court and lawyer costs involved?

If so, is it worth it to take Mr. Cranick to court with all the costs involved to try and recover $75?
[/quote]


Actually its a funny story, this happened when my dad was still in the army.

He retired a Captain. So when my friend was having issues with this her ex was in the navy, so he got on the phone to his C/O as "Captain B" and had his C/O shitting all over himself to fix it despite that my dad was a lower equivalent rank than he was, but my dad wasn't lying about being a Captain, he just wasn't a Navy Captain. :lol:

So no she didnt have to go through the court system to get it. However I imagine she could have if she didnt have someone on her side about it.

Would it be worth them going through the courts to get 75? No, but what happens if his insurance company sues? Would it be worth the legal costs to defend themselves of that same 75?

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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1286390092' post='927360']
Lets say for arguments sake he didnt forget. Its still going to cost the taxpayer more money than 75 bucks when they have to put him up in a shelter. Simple answer would have been put it out and charge him for the full amount of costs after the fact even if it meant putting a lean on his house. This way he isnt void of personal responsibility and the tax payers aren't footing the bill for a shelter for him for being an idiot.
[/quote]

True, but hindsight is always 20/20. Do you think the firefighters are responsible for making all of these decisions on the spot? Seems like all of that would take a while to decide. First you have to determine if the guy can even pay you back. What if the lien forces him to sell the house? Seems like he would be homeless anyway. You delay the inevitable.

This is a good example of how the government should just make all shit shit mandatory because the lowest common denominator is always too stupid to take care of himself. Yes that includes health care.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1286394382' post='927399']
True, but hindsight is always 20/20. Do you think the firefighters are responsible for making all of these decisions on the spot? Seems like all of that would take a while to decide. First you have to determine if the guy can even pay you back. What if the lien forces him to sell the house? Seems like he would be homeless anyway. You delay the inevitable.

This is a good example of how the government should just make all shit shit mandatory because the lowest common denominator is always too stupid to take care of himself. Yes that includes health care.
[/quote]


Dont disagree with any of this but even if he couldnt pay it and ended up homeless eventually at least the state has a property which they can profit from.
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