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If there were playoffs


MichaelWeston

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This is as of today and per my rankings without the caveat that many put in that only 2 teams per conference can make it. Seeded by me through the rankings. 16 teams, all 11 conference winners and 5 at large, which is the only fair way to do it. Home games for the higher seed.

Seed Week 11
1 Auburn 11--0
2 Oregon 10--0
3 TCU 11--0
4 Boise State 9--0
5 LSU 9--1
6 Wisconsin 9--1
7 Nebraska 9--1
8 Michigan St 9--1
9 Stanford 9--1
10 OSU 9--1
11 Oklahoma St 9--1
12 Va Tech 8--2
13 N Illinois 8--2
14 UCF 7--3
15 Pittsburgh 5--4
16 Fl International 4--5


Seed Week 11
1 Auburn 11--0
16 Fl International 4--5

8 Michigan St 9--1
9 Stanford 9--1

4 Boise State 9--0
13 N Illinois 8--2

5 LSU 9--1
12 Va Tech 8--2

3 TCU 11--0
14 UCF 7--3

6 Wisconsin 9--1
11 Oklahoma St 9--1

7 Nebraska 9--1
10 OSU 9--1

2 Oregon 10--0
15 Pittsburgh 5--4

I am drooling just thinking about how awesome this would be.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289836156' post='941622']
This is as of today and per my rankings without the caveat that many put in that only 2 teams per conference can make it. Seeded by me through the rankings. 16 teams, all 11 conference winners and 5 at large, which is the only fair way to do it. Home games for the higher seed.

Seed Week 11
1 Auburn 11--0
2 Oregon 10--0
3 TCU 11--0
4 Boise State 9--0
5 LSU 9--1
6 Wisconsin 9--1
7 Nebraska 9--1
8 Michigan St 9--1
9 Stanford 9--1
10 OSU 9--1
11 Oklahoma St 9--1
12 Va Tech 8--2
13 N Illinois 8--2
14 UCF 7--3
15 Pittsburgh 5--4
16 Fl International 4--5


Seed Week 11
1 Auburn 11--0
16 Fl International 4--5

8 Michigan St 9--1
9 Stanford 9--1

4 Boise State 9--0
13 N Illinois 8--2

5 LSU 9--1
12 Va Tech 8--2

3 TCU 11--0
14 UCF 7--3

6 Wisconsin 9--1
11 Oklahoma St 9--1

7 Nebraska 9--1
10 OSU 9--1

2 Oregon 10--0
15 Pittsburgh 5--4

I am drooling just thinking about how awesome this would be.
[/quote]

I like most everything you're thinking here... but all 11 conferences should not get automatic bids... there are some shitty conference champions... Pitt for one. Give me the top 8 in the BCS rankings and run with it from there. That'd get your legit champion.

But if having all conference champs plus 5 at large to get college presidents to agree, so be it.

People think March Madness is crazy... this would be ridiculous popular...
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289847899' post='941683']
funny, not a month ago you claimed the Big Ten sucks. Now you have 3 Big Ten teams in your top 10, with a 4th being added next year.
[/quote]

Good point. Not sure what I think, but, This is based off wins and losses. The Big Ten has 3 teams with just one loss. Everyone of those teams made it for me but Nevada. In temrs of Strength of Schedule I would imagine Wisconsin, OSU and Michigan St are all near the bottom of this list.

Wisconsin has 2 quality wins (Iowa and OSU)
OSU has 1 quality win (Miami)
Michigan St has 2 quality wins (Wisconsin and Michigan)

It still seems pretty clear that the Big 10 is super top heavy. The SEC and Big 12 are both better conferences this year.

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289842859' post='941657']
I like most everything you're thinking here... but all 11 conferences should not get automatic bids... there are some shitty conference champions... Pitt for one. Give me the top 8 in the BCS rankings and run with it from there. That'd get your legit champion.

But if having all conference champs plus 5 at large to get college presidents to agree, so be it.

People think March Madness is crazy... this would be ridiculous popular...
[/quote]

Cinderalla. You have to include everyone.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289848664' post='941686']
Cinderalla. You have to include everyone.
[/quote]

Well... we'll disagree I guess.

I'd rather have Alabama, Nevada, hell South Carolina or Florida, maybe a Mizzou before I want to see Pitt, Fla International, N. Illinois, etc.


The playoff wouldn't "have" to include everyone... it should include the BEST 8 or 16 teams it can find... period, regardless of conference. If those teams with 2 losses are deemed bottom seeds then that 16 teamer would be just badass...
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[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1289855536' post='941723']
The Big East should be banned from the BCS or your playoff consideration this year. Every team in the conference is down this year. When Syracuse is second in the Big East you know it is a bad year.
[/quote]


IMO there should be a rule that your regular season conference champ (or one of the division winners for conferences with championship games) should be ranked in the top 15. If there's an upset in the conference championship game, cool I can live with that, but your conference has to demonstrate that SOMEONE in the conference is a top caliber team.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289851046' post='941697']
Well... we'll disagree I guess.

I'd rather have Alabama, Nevada, hell South Carolina or Florida, maybe a Mizzou before I want to see Pitt, Fla International, N. Illinois, etc.


The playoff wouldn't "have" to include everyone... it should include the BEST 8 or 16 teams it can find... period, regardless of conference. If those teams with 2 losses are deemed bottom seeds then that 16 teamer would be just badass...
[/quote]

Name me a playoff that does not include the winners of each of the conferences within it? The NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAA all do it. It just wouldnt make sense not to do it. You win your conference you earn a place in the playoff. college football would be more and more interesting as more and more teams gain traction.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289857893' post='941741']
IMO there should be a rule that your regular season conference champ (or one of the division winners for conferences with championship games) should be ranked in the top 15. If there's an upset in the conference championship game, cool I can live with that, but your conference has to demonstrate that SOMEONE in the conference is a top caliber team.
[/quote]

The entire system is rigged against them. Rankings and scheduling are slanted entirely to favor the teams that are already there. A 16 team tournament has to include every conference champion. You are getting 5 at large teams.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289858849' post='941746']
The entire system is rigged against them. Rankings and scheduling are slanted entirely to favor the teams that are already there. A 16 team tournament has to include every conference champion. You are getting 5 at large teams.
[/quote]

I can name at least 6 teams that aren't in your 16 team playoff that are better (and if matched up with the bottom 5 or 6 of your 16) and the betting line would reflect it before the game even started.

Alabama
South Carolina
Nevada
Missouri
Iowa
Arizona

Those teams alone... wouldn't make your 16... but are all better than your bottom 4. You can say slanted, whatever, all day long. Boise State, TCU, and Utah are the only 3 non-bcs schools that have EVER shown any semblance of being worthy.

Put any of that 4 against any of these schools straight up and see where the betting money goes... it would be ridiculous. It isn't about inclusion... it is about getting the the BEST 16 schools, regardless of where they come from.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289911616' post='941876']
I can name at least 6 teams that aren't in your 16 team playoff that are better (and if matched up with the bottom 5 or 6 of your 16) and the betting line would reflect it before the game even started.

Alabama
South Carolina
Nevada
Missouri
Iowa
Arizona

Those teams alone... wouldn't make your 16... but are all better than your bottom 4. You can say slanted, whatever, all day long. Boise State, TCU, and Utah are the only 3 non-bcs schools that have EVER shown any semblance of being worthy.

Put any of that 4 against any of these schools straight up and see where the betting money goes... it would be ridiculous. It isn't about inclusion... it is about getting the the BEST 16 schools, regardless of where they come from.
[/quote]



a few of them would probably beat Oklahoma too.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289911616' post='941876']
I can name at least 6 teams that aren't in your 16 team playoff that are better (and if matched up with the bottom 5 or 6 of your 16) and the betting line would reflect it before the game even started.

Alabama
South Carolina
Nevada
Missouri
Iowa
Arizona

Those teams alone... wouldn't make your 16... but are all better than your bottom 4. You can say slanted, whatever, all day long. Boise State, TCU, and Utah are the only 3 non-bcs schools that have EVER shown any semblance of being worthy.

Put any of that 4 against any of these schools straight up and see where the betting money goes... it would be ridiculous. It isn't about inclusion... it is about getting the the BEST 16 schools, regardless of where they come from.
[/quote]

Name a playoff systemt that does it the way you are describing. There probably are some but they are rare.

Your argument is a little thin as well. Are people going to be betting on the Rams in these playoffs? Are people going to bet on the 8th place seed in the East to beat the Heat? Will people bet on Murray St in the 64 man tournament? If they are not going to be bet on then they don't deserve a chance to play? Sure there may be better teams, but they did not win their conference. In this case you win your conference, what you have control over, and you are in. It gives each league something to shoot for. It makes it so that there can only be one undefeated team. And you would have teams making it year in and year out who would then become legitimate contenders....Gonzaga's, Butler's etc.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289914995' post='941894']
I sure know I want to see a playoff game where Oregon runs up 75 on Northern Illinois, just so Northern Illinois can be included.
[/quote]

See I think you just made my point. You know absolutely nothing about Northern Illinois. That team is 8-2 with their only losses coming to Illinois and Iowa St in weeks 1 and 3. They have the 4th ranked rushing attack in the country, 25th scoring offense and 26th scoring Defense. Would they beat Oregon? Probably not. Do they have a chance. Yes. Dothey have an even better chance of beating Boise State the team that they are actually lined up with here, absolutely.

With 5 at large teams no team can really complain about not getting in. Win your games and you are in.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289916235' post='941901']
See I think you just made my point. You know absolutely nothing about Northern Illinois. That team is 8-2 with their only losses coming to Illinois and Iowa St in weeks 1 and 3. They have the 4th ranked rushing attack in the country, 25th scoring offense and 26th scoring Defense. Would they beat Oregon? Probably not. Do they have a chance. Yes. Dothey have an even better chance of beating Boise State the team that they are actually lined up with here, absolutely.

With 5 at large teams no team can really complain about not getting in. Win your games and you are in.
[/quote]



I made your point in make believe world. :lol:


This type of format works great for basketball in march madness. In football, it results in blowouts.


There's no way in hell Northern Illinois, UCF, or FL International deserve to be in a playoff before a 9-2 Alabama team.

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289916495' post='941904']
I made your point in make believe world. :lol:


This type of format works great for basketball in march madness. In football, it results in blowouts.


There's no way in hell Northern Illinois, UCF, or FL International deserve to be in a playoff before a 9-2 Alabama team.
[/quote]

But there are blowouts in Basketball? And Alabama lost 2 games and did not win their conference. They had it within their control to make it and did not.

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289842859' post='941657']
I like most everything you're thinking here... but all 11 conferences should not get automatic bids... there are some shitty conference champions... Pitt for one. Give me the top 8 in the BCS rankings and run with it from there. That'd get your legit champion.

But if having all conference champs plus 5 at large to get college presidents to agree, so be it.

People think March Madness is crazy... this would be ridiculous popular...
[/quote]

Disagree. All 11 should get auto bids. 5 at large is enough.

Either they're a D1 program or they're not. Send them back down if they aren't good enough.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289916235' post='941901']
See I think you just made my point. You know absolutely nothing about Northern Illinois. That team is 8-2 with their only losses coming to Illinois and Iowa St in weeks 1 and 3. They have the 4th ranked rushing attack in the country, 25th scoring offense and 26th scoring Defense. Would they beat Oregon? Probably not. Do they have a chance. Yes. Dothey have an even better chance of beating Boise State the team that they are actually lined up with here, absolutely.

With 5 at large teams no team can really complain about not getting in. Win your games and you are in.
[/quote]

Dude... when you're looking at teams that take 1 or 2 losses in the the toughest, and second toughest conferences, in the country and leave them at home and instead "include" teams from little sisters of the poor conferences you're not making a playoff system any better.

Do you want to provide "hope" for smaller D1 schools? Or do you want to find the best college football team? If you think N. Illinois, Fla. International, et al would be truly competitive, in the SEC or Big 12 you're delusional... you kill your own argument when you point out that a N. Illinois team that lost its only two games to bigger conference schools deserves in because it won its cupcake conference but a Big 12 or Big 10 team that maybe only lost 1 or 2 games within one of those conferences (to teams much better than either Illinois or Iowa St) don't because they "didn't win their conference"...

One other thing Burn... lets just assume we put Alabama, since they're 9-2 they'd be a low seed, as the 16th seed playing Oregon... you don't think the money betting on that game would be a hell of a lot closer to even than Oregon Fla. International? Again, you're delusional if you're gonna argue that.

I'd love the scenario where you have these other top tier teams playing as low seeds playing a #1 Oregon, or #2 Boise State, etc. THAT, would be exciting.

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289916495' post='941904']
I made your point in make believe world. :lol:


This type of format works great for basketball in march madness. In football, it results in blowouts.


There's no way in hell Northern Illinois, UCF, or FL International deserve to be in a playoff before a 9-2 Alabama team.
[/quote]

When you're talking about 64-68 teams in a playoff scenario it makes it much simpler to include these smaller schools... and I'll point out too, that basketball rosters are much smaller so with only 5 guys on the floor at a time, even if the smaller schools have 1 or 2 really nice players they can be competitive and "hang in there"... when you're talking about 11 a side, or 22 different starters the difference between the big schools (larger linemen, faster players, etc.) and the small schools gets out of hand.

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1289920342' post='941924']
Disagree. All 11 should get auto bids. 5 at large is enough.

Either they're a D1 program or they're not. Send them back down if they aren't good enough.
[/quote]

I'll disagree back. They can say they're D1 all day long. But there are D1 haves and D1 have nots... like it or not. The big conference D1 schools have a SIGNIFICANT budget, facility, and talent advantage over the smaller D1 schools.


The question gets down to... do you want this playoff to find the BEST college football team or are you just wanting to be "all-inclusive", etc. so "even the small guy has a shot"?

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289922229' post='941941']

I'll disagree back. They can say they're D1 all day long. But there are D1 haves and D1 have nots... like it or not. The big conference D1 schools have a SIGNIFICANT budget, facility, and talent advantage over the smaller D1 schools.


The question gets down to... do you want this playoff to find the BEST college football team or are you just wanting to be "all-inclusive", etc. so "even the small guy has a shot"?
[/quote]

Well what the hell, you are just creating a new "good ol' boys" network like the BCS.

Plus, how else are those schools supposed to recruit and increase their budget, facilities and talent if they are always behind this eight ball?

And finally, even if they are the 16 seed and they win it all, won't they have proven themselves as the BEST?
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There are 11 conferences in Division 1 football. Any system that does not allow all 11 conference champions an equal chance at a national championship is not fair.

"The big conference D1 schools have a SIGNIFICANT budget, facility, and talent advantage over the smaller D1 schools." How did they get those?
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1289922493' post='941943']
Well what the hell, you are just creating a new "good ol' boys" network like the BCS.

Plus, how else are those schools supposed to recruit and increase their budget, facilities and talent if they are always behind this eight ball?

And finally, even if they are the 16 seed and they win it all, won't they have proven themselves as the BEST?
[/quote]

Yes, any team that goes from whatever seed in the tourney to win it all would be deemed "the best" in college football, and rightfully so.


But, based on what you two are arguing you only want the find out the best as long as the smaller conference champions have a shot at it too... even if along the way that conference champion loses all its games to the bigger conference teams it plays... (your N. Illinois example...) The smaller conference teams that go up against the big boys and beats them do get a shot as they've proven they're worthy... TCU, Boise State as examples...

I hope to everything that Alabama plays N. Illinois, or C. Florida in a bowl game this year so we can have a friendly wager on the game... since that team is sooo much more deserving...
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289924138' post='941961']
Yes, any team that goes from whatever seed in the tourney to win it all would be deemed "the best" in college football, and rightfully so.


But, based on what you two are arguing you only want the find out the best as long as the smaller conference champions have a shot at it too... even if along the way that conference champion loses all its games to the bigger conference teams it plays... (your N. Illinois example...) The smaller conference teams that go up against the big boys and beats them do get a shot as they've proven they're worthy... TCU, Boise State as examples...

I hope to everything that Alabama plays N. Illinois, or C. Florida in a bowl game this year so we can have a friendly wager on the game... since that team is sooo much more deserving...
[/quote]

I'm not saying that the small conference team DESERVES it. Lord knows I believe in measurable metrics more than anyone else. I know shitty teams win shitty conferences. Hell, shitty teams win BCS conferences (Big East).

However, what is the point of establishing a D1 conference if you aren't going to be allowed to compete? This is the same anti-trust shit the BCS is going to face when actual DESERVING teams get left out. It's really gay to leave teams out.

I believe two things:
1. If a school is really that butt hurt about being left out, negotiate their way out of the power conference and into a shitty conference. Let's take Texas A&M for example. If they're tired of OU and Texas winning every year and want a shot at an automatic bid, go to the Sun Belt Conference.

2. The shitty conferences will now have appeal to recruits and will get better quality of teams. It's slowly happening in basketball. Mid-Major's aren't such pushovers anymore.

If conference champs can't get in, what is the point of even having a conference?
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1289924666' post='941966']
I'm not saying that the small conference team DESERVES it. Lord knows I believe in measurable metrics more than anyone else. I know shitty teams win shitty conferences. Hell, shitty teams win BCS conferences (Big East).

However, what is the point of establishing a D1 conference if you aren't going to be allowed to compete? This is the same anti-trust shit the BCS is going to face when actual DESERVING teams get left out. It's really gay to leave teams out.

I believe two things:
1. If a school is really that butt hurt about being left out, negotiate their way out of the power conference and into a shitty conference. Let's take Texas A&M for example. If they're tired of OU and Texas winning every year and want a shot at an automatic bid, go to the Sun Belt Conference.

2. The shitty conferences will now have appeal to recruits and will get better quality of teams. It's slowly happening in basketball. Mid-Major's aren't such pushovers anymore.

If conference champs can't get in, what is the point of even having a conference?
[/quote]

Couldnt say it better myself. What the 16 team tournament does is..

1. Reward you for having success in your conference.
2. Reward the top ranked teams for having overall success by letting them play poor teams.
3. Legitimizes 5 illegitimate conferences by giving them a face every year. As a Pro football fan can you really argue that the more good teams the better the league. TCU and Boise make things alot more interesting. This year is by far my most favorite in recent memory. If a team or 2 goes down I have no idea how this shapes up. And we are going to get gret nontraditional bowl matchups.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1289924666' post='941966']
I'm not saying that the small conference team DESERVES it. Lord knows I believe in measurable metrics more than anyone else. I know shitty teams win shitty conferences. Hell, shitty teams win BCS conferences (Big East).

However, what is the point of establishing a D1 conference if you [b]aren't going to be allowed to compet[/b]e? This is the same anti-trust shit the BCS is going to face when actual DESERVING teams get left out. It's really gay to leave teams out.

I believe two things:
1. If a school is really that butt hurt about being left out, negotiate their way out of the power conference and into a shitty conference. Let's take Texas A&M for example. If they're tired of OU and Texas winning every year and want a shot at an automatic bid, go to the Sun Belt Conference.

2. The shitty conferences will now have appeal to recruits and will get better quality of teams. It's slowly happening in basketball. Mid-Major's aren't such pushovers anymore.

If conference champs can't get in, what is the point of even having a conference?
[/quote]

Nobody is saying they can't "compete"!!! Boise State, TCU, Utah (until they lost to TCU) are all examples of small conference teams competing against the big boys and beating them head to head and earning the right as they'd be in the 16...

If you're going to solely use a conference affliation as an automatic bid for all conferences then shit can conferences... but conferences apply to more than just football. There are other sports you know... :)

Give me the BEST 16, as determined by who they've played, who they've beaten, and their opponents have played. I don't give a damn if that means 4 teams from the Big 10, 1 SEC, 2 WAC, etc. whatever. Just give me the best 16... not automatic qualifiers...

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