sois Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289927580' post='941991'] Nobody is saying they can't "compete"!!! Boise State, TCU, Utah (until they lost to TCU) are all examples of small conference teams competing against the big boys and beating them head to head and earning the right as they'd be in the 16... [b]If you're going to solely use a conference affliation as an automatic bid for all conferences then shit can conferences...[/b] but conferences apply to more than just football. There are other sports you know... Give me the BEST 16, as determined by who they've played, who they've beaten, and their opponents have played. I don't give a damn if that means 4 teams from the Big 10, 1 SEC, 2 WAC, etc. whatever. Just give me the best 16... not automatic qualifiers... [/quote] So your idea is to shit can conferences? Terrible idea, just terrible. Plus you act like the 16 teams would be selected fairly. I'm sure Norte Dame would slide into that 16 slot every other year. No offense, but your idea is not too much different than the system we already have minus the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1289928786' post='942003'] So your idea is to shit can conferences? Terrible idea, just terrible. Plus you act like the 16 teams would be selected fairly. I'm sure Norte Dame would slide into that 16 slot every other year. [b]No offense, but your idea is not too much different than the system we already have minus the playoffs.[/b] [/quote] Bingo... the only argument you EVER get from it is that it needs to include a few more teams and be settled on the field. As it stands it only gets the top 2... let it include the top 8 or 16 and you'd never have a valid argument from anybody that they "didn't get their shot"... 2 loss N. Illinois (who has lost to Illinois,#8 in the Big 10, and Iowa State #4 in North, #8 overall of Big 12) is more deserving than Alabama (who lost to South Carolina,#1 in east and #2 overall, and LSU, who is #2 in the west and #3 overall of SEC)??? Just because they're in a weaker conference... it just makes no sense. As far as I'm concerned you could take the top 16 in the BCS rankings and use that as your playoff seeder... regardless of conference affiliation, etc. Then everything is settled on the field. But, obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. I just want to see who the best football team is... conference championship should have no bearing on that other than it should enhance your resume in the BCS (or whatever ranking system that would be used at that time) rankings. And, for the record - no, I'm not wanting to shit can conferences... if you'll read back, you inferred "what is the point of conferences if the champion doesn't guarantee a spot?" and I said if that is the sole purpose, to you, of a conference then there is no point in having them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289929466' post='942009'] Bingo... the only argument you EVER get from it is that it needs to include a few more teams and be settled on the field. As far as I'm concerned you could take the top 16 in the BCS rankings and use that as your playoff seeder... regardless of conference affiliation, etc. Then everything is settled on the field. And, for the record - no, I'm not wanting to shit can conferences... if you'll read back, you inferred "what is the point of conferences if the champion doesn't guarantee a spot?" and I said if that is the sole purpose, to you, of a conference then there is no point in having them... [/quote] Yeah, I get what you're saying, but a big appeal of college sports is the conferences. Conference championships are cool. Conference rivalries are cool. I just hate the idea of leaving some conferences out. It really sways all of the off the field stuff back toward the power conferences. That's gay. I want a recruit to say "hey, Florida International won their conference and made the tourney, I should go there and play" instead of just going to ride the pine at USC. It will help these lower conferences gain more resources to be more competitive in the future. If it was up to me, I would force each of the 120 teams into one of 12 conferences, 12 AQ's 4 at large teams, 16 team playoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289929466' post='942009'] 2 loss N. Illinois (who has lost to Illinois,#8 in the Big 10, and Iowa State #4 in North, #8 overall of Big 12) is more deserving than Alabama (who lost to South Carolina,#1 in east and #2 overall, and LSU, who is #2 in the west and #3 overall of SEC)??? Just because they're in a weaker conference... it just makes no sense. [/quote] Why would you want to deny N. Illinois this opportunity to: 1. Represent their conference in the tourney. 2. Gain exposure to recruits. 3. Financially enhance their school and conference. 4. Play in a real big time game. ? As far as Alabama goes, tough shit, you lost to South Carolina and LSU, you should have worked harder with all of your resources to get in the at large field. If you don't like it, go to N. Illinois's conference and win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 I like the playoff idea..but with the extra games..would the NCAA ever go for it? Also for semester schools, these playoff games are played right near final exams for them. I think it would be awesome, I'm just not sure this many more games can be added to the schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1289932259' post='942041'] I like the playoff idea..but with the extra games..would the NCAA ever go for it? Also for semester schools, these playoff games are played right near final exams for them. I think it would be awesome, I'm just not sure this many more games can be added to the schedule? [/quote] Do whatever DII does. They seem to make it work. Maybe go to a 10 game regular seaosn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 If you allow in all of the conference champions it basically extends the tournament a week. The conference championship games are the week where there are 32 teams in the tournament. It also allows a team like South Carolina to get in when right now they are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 Basically instead of leaving out 50 schools, you are giving 50 schools the chance, albeit a slight one, at a national championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1289930492' post='942017'] Why would you want to deny N. Illinois this opportunity to: 1. Represent their conference in the tourney. 2. Gain exposure to recruits. 3. Financially enhance their school and conference. 4. Play in a real big time game. ? As far as Alabama goes, tough shit, you lost to South Carolina and LSU, you should have worked harder with all of your resources to get in the at large field. If you don't like it, go to N. Illinois's conference and win it. [/quote] As I said... we'll agree to disagree. With a playoff the four things you mention above all fall well down the list; #1 of which is... figure out the BEST team. To do that I want the BEST 8 or 16 teams to start with... not automatic qualifiers. You're attempting to build a playoff that'll have ancillary benefit when the playoff system is designed to accomplish 1 thing - determine a winner. DII uses the playoff system for that one purpose only. It isn't a money maker for them, it isn't giving recruits exposure... N. Illinois has 2 losses to two shitty teams rated 8th in the Big 10 and Big 12... Alabama (that is just an initial one example... there are others...) has 2 losses... to the #2 and #3 teams in the SEC... both ranked in the top 25. But, fuck em, right?! You're hilarious! and whomever said South Carolina has the opportunity to play in the playoff... you're right, but they have to beat Auburn in the SEC championship game which then very likely would knock Auburn out. So, then N. Illinois, C. Florida, Fla. International, etc. are more deserving... uh-huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1289937015' post='942091'] As I said... we'll agree to disagree. With a playoff the four things you mention above all fall well down the list; #1 of which is... figure out the BEST team. To do that I want the BEST 8 or 16 teams to start with... not automatic qualifiers. You're attempting to build a playoff that'll have ancillary benefit when the playoff system is designed to accomplish 1 thing - determine a winner. DII uses the playoff system for that one purpose only. It isn't a money maker for them, it isn't giving recruits exposure... N. Illinois has 2 losses to two shitty teams rated 8th in the Big 10 and Big 12... Alabama (that is just an initial one example... there are others...) has 2 losses... to the #2 and #3 teams in the SEC... both ranked in the top 25. But, fuck em, right?! You're hilarious! and whomever said South Carolina has the opportunity to play in the playoff... you're right, but they have to beat Auburn in the SEC championship game which then very likely would knock Auburn out. So, then N. Illinois, C. Florida, Fla. International, etc. are more deserving... uh-huh... [/quote] Your basic premise is faulty. The point of a playoff is not really to figure out the best team. Do you really think thats what happens in the NCAA or other playoffs? Especially the one and dones? Do you think the NCAA would just as easily figure out the best college basketball team with a 32 team tournament, 16 team? even an 8 team? How many times does the national champion come out of a non 1 or 2 seed. The point is that the NCAA tournament gives everyone at every school in the country the hope of playing for the national championship. Every player, every student, every fan has the hope at the beginning of the year of making that tournament. And its a reasonable hope for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289939553' post='942101'] [b]Your basic premise is faulty. The point of a playoff is not really to figure out the best team[/b]. Do you really think thats what happens in the NCAA or other playoffs? Especially the one and dones? Do you think the NCAA would just as easily figure out the best college basketball team with a 32 team tournament, 16 team? even an 8 team? How many times does the national champion come out of a non 1 or 2 seed. The point is that the NCAA tournament gives everyone at every school in the country the hope of playing for the national championship. Every player, every student, every fan has the hope at the beginning of the year of making that tournament. And its a reasonable hope for most. [/quote] MY premise is false??? Oh, ok... I said in an earlier posting... if you're only going to have 16 teams in this playoff scenario you have to attempt to get the BEST 16 to start and let it play out. You can't sell HOPE with that pool of teams. You wanna have 24 or 32... then fine. You can still get all the teams worthy of legitimate argument and include your conference champions so you can sell HOPE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289939553' post='942101'] The point of a playoff is not really to figure out the best team. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1289940729' post='942112'] [/quote] You are of the opinion that a playoff figures out the best team? So over the years the best team in College basketball always wins the tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 Also you would have to admit the Stealers were the best team in 2006. They won the championship, but many would say they weren't the "best team". I'd kill for their luck/referee-corruption though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289944451' post='942135'] You are of the opinion that a playoff figures out the best team? So over the years the best team in College basketball always wins the tournament? [/quote] generally speaking, yes. The team that wins is the one that had what it takes and got the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289934118' post='942061'] Basically instead of leaving out 50 schools, you are giving 50 schools the chance, albeit a slight one, at a national championship. [/quote] With your system you are cutting out 54 teams with a chance at postseason play. 70 teams right now get to play in a bowl game and you would only allow 16 teams at a chance at postseason play. There is a lot of smaller schools that would not win there conference but would die for a chance to play in a bowl game. Bowl games not only help with recruiting but they also bring in a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289916235' post='941901'] See I think you just made my point. You know absolutely nothing about Northern Illinois. That team is 8-2 with their only losses coming to Illinois and Iowa St in weeks 1 and 3. They have the 4th ranked rushing attack in the country, 25th scoring offense and 26th scoring Defense. Would they beat Oregon? Probably not. Do they have a chance. Yes. Dothey have an even better chance of beating Boise State the team that they are actually lined up with here, absolutely. With 5 at large teams no team can really complain about not getting in. Win your games and you are in. [/quote] Before you make an argument about how good Northern Illinois is you should probably look at the quality of their wins. North Dakota (FCS school) 2-7 Minnesota 2-9 Akron 0-10 Buffalo 2-8 Central Michigan 3-8 Western Michigan 4-6 They have only beat two teams with a winning record (Temple and Toledo). Also I would not act like the two losses they have are good. Iowa State got beat by Oklahoma by 52 points and Utah by 41 points and neither one of those teams you have in the top 16. If a team like TCU beat Utah by 40 and Iowa State lost to Utah by 41 and Iowa State beat Northern Illinois, I would sure hate to see what happens when Northern Illinois play anyone in the top five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1289975559' post='942226'] With your system you are cutting out 54 teams with a chance at postseason play. 70 teams right now get to play in a bowl game and you would only allow 16 teams at a chance at postseason play. There is a lot of smaller schools that would not win there conference but would die for a chance to play in a bowl game. Bowl games not only help with recruiting but they also bring in a lot of money. [/quote] This argument is absurdly flawed. There is no reason you can't have the bowls and the playoffs. NO REASON. The Bowls right now are played for nothing but fun. They can still do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1289976271' post='942227'] Before you make an argument about how good Northern Illinois is you should probably look at the quality of their wins. North Dakota (FCS school) 2-7 Minnesota 2-9 Akron 0-10 Buffalo 2-8 Central Michigan 3-8 Western Michigan 4-6 They have only beat two teams with a winning record (Temple and Toledo). Also I would not act like the two losses they have are good. Iowa State got beat by Oklahoma by 52 points and Utah by 41 points and neither one of those teams you have in the top 16. If a team like TCU beat Utah by 40 and Iowa State lost to Utah by 41 and Iowa State beat Northern Illinois, I would sure hate to see what happens when Northern Illinois play anyone in the top five. [/quote] Dont get me wrong, I think alabama is better then N Illinois. But I think that N Illinois has spoiler written all over them. Can you honsestly tell me that N Illinois couldnt nock off one of the big boys. Is it likely no. Is is possible yes. Possible is why the NCAA tournament is so popular. But this argument is a bit futile. OSU has 3 wins against teams with winning records. Oregon has 1 win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290002104' post='942256'] Dont get me wrong, I think alabama is better then N Illinois. But I think that N Illinois has spoiler written all over them. Can you honsestly tell me that N Illinois couldnt nock off one of the big boys. Is it likely no. [b]Is is possible yes. Possible is why the NCAA tournament is so popular. [/b] But this argument is a bit futile. OSU has 3 wins against teams with winning records. Oregon has 1 win. [/quote] THIS ISN'T BASKETBALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1290002668' post='942260'] THIS ISN'T BASKETBALL [/quote] SO WHAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1290004730' post='942274'] SO WHAT [/quote] So you're an idiot. March Madness works because upsets are much more feasible in basketball. Nobody wants to spend Christmas Eve watching Auburn hang 80 on Northern Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290001458' post='942252'] This argument is absurdly flawed. There is no reason you can't have the bowls and the playoffs. NO REASON. The Bowls right now are played for nothing but fun. They can still do that. [/quote] Yea but no where did you ever say there would be bowl games with your system. I can't read your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1290008995' post='942300'] So you're an idiot. March Madness works because upsets are much more feasible in basketball. Nobody wants to spend Christmas Eve watching Auburn hang 80 on Northern Illinois. [/quote] I'd watch that game. But I also watch shit like Ohio v. Tulane on a Tuesday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1290012425' post='942312'] I'd watch that game. But I also watch shit like Ohio v. Tulane on a Tuesday night. [/quote] I'd rather watch Auburn play Mizzou or Arizona though... instead of beating the shit out of a small conference school as an "atta boy" for winning their cupcake conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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