If there were playoffs

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1290008995' post='942300']
So you're an idiot.


March Madness works because upsets are much more feasible in basketball.


Nobody wants to spend Christmas Eve watching Auburn hang 80 on Northern Illinois.
[/quote]

That game would likely happen around December 11th.
If it would happen around December 25th you bet people would be watching because it would be the game to get to the National Championship and as we have seen in the past America loves to jump on the underdog. At that point everyone would be rooting for N Illinois and N Illinois would have earned it by beating 2 higher seeds. Watching Boise State beat Oklahoma might just have been one of the best games of all time.

[MichaelWeston]

Look at all of these amazing games.

1 Auburn 11--0 (Bad game but a reward for an undefeated season)
16 Fl International 4--5

8 Michigan St 9--1 (Incredible game)
9 Stanford 9--1

4 Boise State 9--0 (Solid game)
13 N Illinois 8--2

5 LSU 9--1 (Very good to great game, Va Tech is 8-0 since their 2 early season losses)
12 Va Tech 8--2

3 TCU 11--0 (Bad game but a reward for an undefeated season)
14 UCF 7--3

6 Wisconsin 9--1 Incredible game
Oklahoma St 9--1

7 Nebraska 9--1 (Absolutely incredible game)
10 OSU 9--1

2 Oregon 10--0 (Bad game but a reward for an undefeated season)
15 Pittsburgh 5--4


So if all the higher seeds won the second week would be.

8 Michigan St @
1 Auburn

5 LSU @
4 Boise St

6 Wisconsin @
3 TCU

7 Nebraska @
2 Oregon

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290014255' post='942321']
That game would likely happen around December 11th.
If it would happen around December 25th you bet people would be watching because it would be the game to get to the National Championship and as we have seen in the past America loves to jump on the underdog. At that point everyone would be rooting for N Illinois and N Illinois would have earned it by beating 2 higher seeds. Watching Boise State beat Oklahoma might just have been one of the best games of all time.
[/quote]



did you really just put Northern Illinois in the same class as Boise State?


Boise State had a strong football history long before the Oklahoma win.

[MichaelWeston]

huh? Yes, in that they both would be the underdog.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290015992' post='942329']
huh? Yes, in that they both would be the underdog.
[/quote]


not to mention, Boise State was only playing in that game because they actually earned their way into being in that position of being BCS eligible.


When's the last time Northern Illinois, or any MAC team, was even in the top 25?

[MichaelWeston]

Ball state was undefeated just 2 years ago.

They would have earned it by winning their conference.

[sois]

Here's the thing then: Just make another division above D1. Make it one louder. Just put all the teams in that you think have a fighting chance and nobody else can play.

What is the point of having these "mid major" conferences if they are going to be left out?

You seem to not understand the value to those schools of allowing them to participate. It increases their revenue so much. So instead of having five awesome conferences, if we play fair (this is college amateur athletics after all) and give every conference equal representation, those shitty conferences might ACTUALLY IMPROVE.

This isn't pro football. It's college sports; it's supposed to be "fair and amateur", not a billion dollar cartel.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290002104' post='942256']
Dont get me wrong, I think alabama is better then N Illinois. But I think that N Illinois has spoiler written all over them. Can you honsestly tell me that N Illinois couldnt nock off one of the big boys. Is it likely no. Is is possible yes. Possible is why the NCAA tournament is so popular.

But this argument is a bit futile. OSU has 3 wins against teams with winning records. Oregon has 1 win.
[/quote]
Oregon may have a only one win over a team with a winning record but they have beaten everyone they have played. OSU only loss is to a team that scored 83 points last week. There is a reason Northern Illinois is not ranked in the top 25 because they dont belong. They have lost their last three bowl games they have played in. You can say what you want but I can honestly say they dont stand a chance against any team in the top 10.

The playoff system is not a bad idea but the best way to do it is take the top 16 teams in the polls and go from there. Small schools would still have a chance. There is currently four teams from small conferences in the top 25 coaches poll.

[sois]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1290017609' post='942337']
The playoff system is not a bad idea but the best way to do it is take the top 16 teams in the polls and go from there. Small schools would still have a chance. There is currently four teams from small conferences in the top 25 coaches poll.
[/quote]

The rich will always get richer this way. I don't think the small programs will ever grow under the BCS or this idea. Like I said before, why have those shitty conferences in D1? Just send them down.

I guess you guys still aren't seeing the potential positive influence on recruiting to these small conferences. That to me is the biggest reason to give them an auto bid.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1290017131' post='942333']
Ball state was undefeated just 2 years ago.

They would have earned it by winning their conference.
[/quote]



First off, Ball State didn't go undefeated. They were 12-1. They lost to mighty Buffalo. Second, they were never higher than 12th in the BCS. Admiral for a MAC team, but if they had beaten anyone good they would have maybe earned their way into the top 10. They're biggest win of the year was over Northwestern. Whoopie.


When your biggest win of the year is a bad Northwestern team, and can't even win your conferences' automatic bowl bid, you've haven't earned your way into a playoff.

[AmishBengalFan]

There's a simple, workable solution that I've read on other forums that seems to offer the best balance between making the regular season meaningful, preserve the significance of winning your conference championship, emphasize the few opporunities to measure relative conference strength during the infrequent intra-conference matchups, while still allowing the media to have a say via their stupid polls.

You have an 8-team playoff. Those 8 berths are earned as follows:
5 of them are reserved for conference champions, 3 of them are awarded to the highest-ranked teams who do NOT win a reserved berth. For those 5 reserved berths, one if automatically given to the champion of the conference who was home to last years' national champion - this is to ensure that the team currently holding the title has control of their own destiny to repeat. The other 4 reserved berths are awarded to the four conferences who post the best cumulative head-to-head winning percentage in non-conference play. If there is an undefeated team that does not earn a spot otherwise, they bump the 3rd at-large team and are assigned the #8 seed. If there are two undefeated teams, they play each other (home field based on rankings) to play-in to the #8 spot. If there are more than two undefeated teams, the third one plays at the #7 seed for that spot, the fourth plays at the #6 seed for that spot, etc.

Seeding for your 8 teams are based on the polls. Each round has the highest seed playing the lowest seed (like the NHL), with the provision that two teams from the same conference may not play each other unless it is mathematically unavoidable. First round games are played at campus sites, semi-finals and finals at predetermined neutral sites.

First round games are played 2 weeks after the end of the regular season. Losers are bowl-eligible. Semi-finals are played 3 weeks later, with the finals played the weekend before the Super Bowl.

If this system were in place, then using today's standings and polls:

The current intra-conference standings are:
0.878 SEC (36-5)
0.818 Big 12 (36-8)
0.814 Big 10 (35-8)
0.700 Pac 10 (21-9)
0.642 ACC (27-15)
0.605 Big East (23-15)
0.553 WAC (21-17)
0.472 Mtn West (17-19)
0.288 MAC (15-37)
0.270 C*USA (10-27)
0.167 SunBelt (6-30)

The defending national champs are Alabama, so SEC gets an automatic berth. The other 4 reserved berths go to the B12, B10, P12 and ACC. Assuming that the current conference leader (based on fewest conference losses) wins these spots, with tiebreakers based on the current BCS rank order, here's your field:

AUTOMATIC BERTH - SEC Champ = (2)Auburn (11-0)
RESERVED BERTH - B12 Champ = (8)Nebraska (9-1)
RESERVED BERTH - B10 Champ = (7)Wisconsin (9-1)
RESERVED BERTH - P12 Champ = (1)Oregon (10-0)
RESERVED BERTH - ACC Champ = (16)Virginia Tech (8-2)

Your three at-large schools are:
(3) TCU (11-0)
(4) Boise State (9-0)
(5) LSU (9-1)

There are no undefeated teams not already in the field, so no bumping/expansion is required.

First round games:
(16)Virginia Tech (8-2) at (1)Oregon (10-0)
(8)Nebraska (9-1) at (2)Auburn (11-0)
(7)Wisconsin (9-1) at (3)TCU (11-0)
(5)LSU (9-1) at (4)Boise State (9-0)

[sois]

Amish, I don't like it. 16 teams, all 11 conferences auto birth, 5 at large.

It is the only option for me if we are talking about hypothetical O'bama-style change.

[AmishBengalFan]

Sorry, but I feel that a 16-team 4-round tourney is just too big. We'll have to disagree here.

Continuing on the 8-team tourney from my previous post, that system makes some of the late-season non-conference games take on CRITICAL signifigance. For example, right now the SEC, B12, B10 and P10 would all have locked up at least a reserved spot. The ACC currently in the final spot at (27-15) but they have 6 non-conference games remaining. The BE is (23-15), only 2 games behind, with 2 remaining non-conference games... both against the ACC:

Head-to-head...
South Florida [BE] at Miami-FL [ACC]
Boston College [ACC] at Syracuse [BE]

And also...
South Carolina [SEC] at Clemson [ACC]
Florida [SEC] at Florida $tate [ACC]
Wake Forest [ACC] at Vanderbilt [SEC]
Georgia Tech [ACC] at Georgia [SEC]

The teams currently still in the hunt for the BE and ACC titles would all have their post-season lives hinging on the results of these 6 games. Besides Virginia Tech, there's Miami-FL, Florida $tate, Maryland, NC State, and the entire Big East (I think everyone - even Cincy - is still mathematically alive in some fashion). Granted, none of these would likely stand a chance in the post-season, but it still adds significant interest.

Best of all, all of the automatic qualifier stuff is based solely on on-field performance. Not a single poll is involved in picking these 5 teams.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1290018150' post='942340']
The rich will always get richer this way. I don't think the small programs will ever grow under the BCS or this idea. Like I said before, why have those shitty conferences in D1? Just send them down.

I guess you guys still aren't seeing the potential positive influence on recruiting to these small conferences. That to me is the biggest reason to give them an auto bid.
[/quote]
Boise State? TCU? Utah? Fresno State? UCF? All those schools have grown under the BCS.

[MichaelWeston]

Amish. The big schools refuse to play not at home. If you balance the schedules yours works, but the big schools play 8 home games a eyar why some small schools play 4-5.

[sois]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1290023724' post='942366']
Boise State? TCU? Utah? Fresno State? UCF? All those schools have grown under the BCS.
[/quote]

True, but all growth is in spite of the system, not because of it. Imagine how much easier it would be to recruit at TCU if Patterson could tell recruits that they are signing up for a team with a great shot at a conference championship and tournament entry?

You think he wouldn't be winning over recruits who go to A&M and Texas Tech instead? He would crush in recruiting. Why give the BCS conferences some extra recruiting ammo and leave the other conferences out? It's so gay.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1290024841' post='942370']
True, but all growth is in spite of the system, not because of it. Imagine how much easier it would be to recruit at TCU if Patterson could tell recruits that they are signing up for a team with a great shot at a conference championship and tournament entry?

You think he wouldn't be winning over recruits who go to A&M and Texas Tech instead? He would crush in recruiting. Why give the BCS conferences some extra recruiting ammo and leave the other conferences out? It's so gay.
[/quote]
TCU is doing just fine in recruiting with the BCS. For next season they are already ranked ahead of big schools like Miami, Oregon, Louisville, Texas A&M. Just looked at another recruiting website and it has them also rated over G. Tech, V. Tech, West Virginia, UCLA, Missouri. It looks like they are doing pretty well in recruiting.

The BCS needs to go but your point of saying schools cant grow or hurts in recruiting is just not right. The BCS needs to go cause there is probably going to be a undefeated team left out of the national championship game this year. The best way to do it is just take the top 16 or 8 or how many ever teams and go play football.

[MichaelWeston]

I think the question is this. Do you want the NCAA to stay status quo or would you like to see more legitimate teams? Would it be a better league if you had all the really good teams and have nots or if the have nots could legitimately become haves. Is MLB better then the NFL? Do you like parity or dynasty?

I love that i legitimately think the Bengals have a chance every year. I wish I legitimately thought my college team could have a chance EVER.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1290025601' post='942372']
The BCS needs to go but your point of saying schools cant grow or hurts in recruiting is just not right. The BCS needs to go cause there is probably going to be a undefeated team left out of the national championship game this year. The best way to do it is just take the top 16 or 8 or how many ever teams and go play football.
[/quote]

This. If we're putting that small of a playoff in place then you need to GET THE BEST TEAMS, regardless of conference. If you're going to bump it up to 24 or 32... then you can play charity playoff and have every conference champion, etc. let em in, be 28-32 seeds and get their heads beat in. If it gets sized that big then you can get the conference champs and still include all the teams that legitimately deserve a shot.

[bengaled]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1289917743' post='941909']
But there are blowouts in Basketball? And Alabama lost 2 games and did not win their conference. They had it within their control to make it and did not.
[/quote]

despite that, they're one of the top 8 teams in the country....if not top 5. the teams you're stumping for would be celler dwellers in one of the bona fide conferences. if they don't like the format, let them schedule out of conference games against someone that's worth a fuck (which we both know they'll never do).

[bengaled]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1289922493' post='941943']
Well what the hell, you are just creating a new "good ol' boys" network like the BCS.

Plus, how else are those schools supposed to recruit and increase their budget, facilities and talent if they are always behind this eight ball?

And finally, even if they are the 16 seed and they win it all, won't they have proven themselves as the BEST?
[/quote]


they can still have bowl games. send them to the "nair hair removal bowl" (and the like), where they belong. they can play for some money there. if they don't like their plight, let them schedule tougher out of conference games. if they play and win against the tougher teams in the country, which is the same basic playing field as the teams you're crying about, they will gain the acclaim they desire. most never want do that, though.

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1290299148' post='942939']
despite that, they're one of the top 8 teams in the country....if not top 5. the teams you're stumping for would be celler dwellers in one of the bona fide conferences. if they don't like the format, let them schedule out of conference games against someone that's worth a fuck (which we both know they'll never do).
[/quote]

This is silly. First of all they are not even in the top ten in any poll. Secondly the other conferences wont play away from their stadiums. You don't think that the cellar dwellers would love to play them. You think OSU is going to go play at TCU or even at N Illinois. They will claim its money but the point is that the home team is more likely to win.

[MichaelWeston]

Thought it would be interesting to update this. Nebraska out Alabama in. Will be very interesting after championship week. This Friday too!

Seed Week 12
1 Auburn 11--0
2 Oregon 10--0
3 TCU 11--0
4 Boise State 10--0
5 LSU 10--1
6 Wisconsin 10--1
7 Michigan St 10--1
8 OSU 10--1
9 Stanford 10--1
10 Oklahoma St 10--1
11 Alabama 9--2
12 Va Tech 9--2
13 N Illinois 9--2
14 UCF 8--3
15 Pittsburgh 6--4
16 Fl International 5--5

16) Fl International 5-5@
1) Auburn 11-0

9) Stanford 10-1 @
8) OSU 10-1

12) Va Tech 9-2@
5) LSU 10-1

13) N Illinois 9-2@
4) Boise St 10-0

14) UCF 8-3 @
3) TCU 11-0

11) Alabama 9-2 @
6) Wisconsin 10-1

10) Oke St 10-1 @
7) Mich St 10-1

15) Pittsburgh 6-4@
2) Oregon 10-0

[MichaelWeston]

another update...

Seed Week 13
1 Auburn 12--0
2 TCU 12--0
3 Oregon 11--0
4 Wisconsin 11--1
5 Michigan St 11--1
6 Boise State 10--1
7 OSU 11--1
8 Arkansas10--2
9 LSU 10--2
10 Oklahoma 10--2
11 Stanford 11--1
12 Va Tech 10--2
13 N Illinois 10--2
14 UCF 9--3
15 Uconn 7--4
16 Fl International 6--5


Seed Week 13
16 Fl International 6--5 @
1 Auburn 12--0

9 LSU 10--2 @
8 Arkansas 10--2

12 Va Tech 10--2 @
5 Michigan St 11--1

13 N Illinois 10--2 @
4 Wisconsin 11--1

14 UCF 9--3 @
3 Oregon 11--0

11 Stanford 11--1 @
6 Boise State 10--1

10 Oklahoma 10--2 @
7 OSU 11--1

15 Uconn 7--4@
2 TCU 12--0

[BigDawgBengal]

Well so much for Nothern Illionis that MichaelWeston was hyping all season. Upset by Miami Ohio.