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If there were playoffs


MichaelWeston

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[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1291432564' post='947316']
Well so much for Nothern Illinois that MichaelWeston was hyping all season. Upset by Miami Ohio.
[/quote]

SEC Auburn v SC
Pac-10 Oregon?
MWC TCU 12--0
WAC Haw v Nev v Boise St
Big Ten Wisconsin 11--1
Big 12 Oke v Nebraska
ACC FSU v Va Tech
Big East Uconn?
Con USA SMU v UCF
MAC Miami 9--4
Sun Belt Fl International 6--5
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1291483199' post='947378']
SEC Auburn v SC
Pac-10 Oregon?
MWC TCU 12--0
WAC Haw v Nev v Boise St
Big Ten Wisconsin 11--1
Big 12 Oke v Nebraska
ACC FSU v Va Tech
Big East Uconn?
Con USA SMU v UCF
MAC Miami 9--4
Sun Belt Fl International 6--5
[/quote]

To have a 4 and 5 loss team in any 8 or 16 team playoff is a joke. Laughable. They're only playing 12 or 13 games...

If you're going to make it a "bring hope" or charity tournament then you're going to have to expand to 24 or 32 teams...
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1291568439' post='947537']
[xml]1 Auburn 13--0 v 16 Fl Intl 6--6
2 Oregon 12--0 v 15 Miami 9--4
3 TCU 12--0 v 14 UCF 10--3
4 Wisconsin 11--1 v 13 Uconn 8--4
5 Oklahoma 11--2 v 12 Va Tech 11--2
6 Arkansas 10--2 v 11 Missourri 10--2
7 LSU 10--2 v 10 OSU 11--1
8 Boise St 11--1 v 9 Stanford 11--1
[/xml]
[/quote]

DROOL
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1291651974' post='948375']
To have a 4 and 5 loss team in any 8 or 16 team playoff is a joke. Laughable. They're only playing 12 or 13 games...

If you're going to make it a "bring hope" or charity tournament then you're going to have to expand to 24 or 32 teams...
[/quote]

Hmm, I completely se what you mean. So how do you change it. If you have more than 3 losses it goes to an at large team? That would have to be the case for all conferences then. Certainly an itneresting Idea. But then dont you need to have balanced schedules of 6 home games nad 6 away games?
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1291660323' post='948418']
Hmm, I completely se what you mean. So how do you change it. If you have more than 3 losses it goes to an at large team? That would have to be the case for all conferences then. Certainly an itneresting Idea. But then dont you need to have balanced schedules of 6 home games nad 6 away games?
[/quote]


simple, for starters, as I suggested earlier in, I think this thread about BCS games, for you to be eligilbe, your conference championship game should have someone ranked in the top 15 of the BCS standings (you can make it top 20 if you want) or if you have no championship game you still need a top 15 team in your conference. This allows for conferences to still get their BCS bid even if there's an upset in the conference championship game.

We'll go with top 20 in this scenario.

Therefore, in a year like this year, Connecticut is not eligible because no Big East team is in the top 20 of the BCS standings. So they lose their spot to the highest ranked non-conference winner. In this case, it would be Michigan State.

Further, Miami U UCF, and Fla International wouldn't be eligible from your list, and let's be honest they don't belong there. You can make a case to extend the above to top 25 of the BCS, which would let UCF and Connecticut in.

So LSU, Nevada (due to head-to-head win over Boise State), and Missouri get those 3 spots. Boise State may get in over Nevada, depending on what rules there are in their conference.

Gives you:

Auburn
Oregon
TCU
Stanford
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Arkansas State
Michigan State
LSU
Nevada/Boise State
Missouri
Virginia Tech
Oklahoma State
Nevada/Boise State
Alabama

So I guess Nevada/Boise State both get in here, but there may be a tiebreaker for seeding.

Essentially its the BCS rankings as they are now (coincidence). If the Big East, Conference USA or MAC had any teams ranked in the top 20 of the BCS rankings they would get preference over the bottom rung schools like Alabama, Nevada/Boise State, and Okie State.


If your conference can't put a team in the top 20 of the BCS rankings, I just can't justify them being in a 16 team tournament.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291669757' post='948500']
off topic, can someone explain to me how a 8-4 connecticut team got the big east championship over a 9-3 west virginia team?
[/quote]

I think they have the same in conference record and Uconn had the tiebreaker...which may have been last team to go to the BCS.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291669360' post='948492']
simple, for starters, as I suggested earlier in, I think this thread about BCS games, for you to be eligilbe, your conference championship game should have someone ranked in the top 15 of the BCS standings (you can make it top 20 if you want) or if you have no championship game you still need a top 15 team in your conference. This allows for conferences to still get their BCS bid even if there's an upset in the conference championship game.

We'll go with top 20 in this scenario.

Therefore, in a year like this year, Connecticut is not eligible because no Big East team is in the top 20 of the BCS standings. So they lose their spot to the highest ranked non-conference winner. In this case, it would be Michigan State.

Further, Miami U UCF, and Fla International wouldn't be eligible from your list, and let's be honest they don't belong there. You can make a case to extend the above to top 25 of the BCS, which would let UCF and Connecticut in.

So LSU, Nevada (due to head-to-head win over Boise State), and Missouri get those 3 spots. Boise State may get in over Nevada, depending on what rules there are in their conference.

Gives you:

Auburn
Oregon
TCU
Stanford
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Arkansas State
Michigan State
LSU
Nevada/Boise State
Missouri
Virginia Tech
Oklahoma State
Nevada/Boise State
Alabama

So I guess Nevada/Boise State both get in here, but there may be a tiebreaker for seeding.

Essentially its the BCS rankings as they are now (coincidence). If the Big East, Conference USA or MAC had any teams ranked in the top 20 of the BCS rankings they would get preference over the bottom rung schools like Alabama, Nevada/Boise State, and Okie State.


If your conference can't put a team in the top 20 of the BCS rankings, I just can't justify them being in a 16 team tournament.
[/quote]

My issue with that is the BCS rankings are inherently flawed because they use polls that are inherently flawed in favor of traditional teams. I definitely see your point about Fl Intl, but what if Fl Intl was 11-1 and ranked 21st in the BCS going into the last week. The coaches in the coaches poll would not be voting for them because guess what...if they get into the BCS then someone from the voting coaches conference might just lose a bid and if that happens the voting coaches team would lose MILLIONS. How do we get around that? We will see a lawsuit soon enough. The difference in bowl payouts is something like 12-17 million and 750K.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291672197' post='948528']
dumb. Overall record should always be tiebreaker #1.
[/quote]

I actually like head to head more but those two should be the two highest. I think 3 teams tied and somehow Uconn won. Regardless they knew weeks ago that Uconn was in if they won out. Not sure how but they knew atleast 2 weeks before this weekends game.

Edit: It was head to head.
http://www.sundaygazettemail.com/Sports/201011200497
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1291672639' post='948530']
My issue with that is the BCS rankings are inherently flawed because they use polls that are inherently flawed in favor of traditional teams. I definitely see your point about Fl Intl, but what if Fl Intl was 11-1 and ranked 21st in the BCS going into the last week. The coaches in the coaches poll would not be voting for them because guess what...if they get into the BCS then someone from the voting coaches conference might just lose a bid and if that happens the voting coaches team would lose MILLIONS. How do we get around that? We will see a lawsuit soon enough. The difference in bowl payouts is something like 12-17 million and 750K.
[/quote]


The BCS Rankings are less flawed than your system. They account for coaches opinion, media opinion, and strength of schedule.


If Fla Intl is 11-1 and only 21st, they probably have a piss poor strength of schedule. Beat good teams and the formula can't help but rank you high.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291677353' post='948558']
The BCS Rankings are less flawed than your system. They account for coaches opinion, media opinion, and strength of schedule.


If Fla Intl is 11-1 and only 21st, they probably have a piss poor strength of schedule. Beat good teams and the formula can't help but rank you high.
[/quote]
Yep. There is 3 non BCS teams in the top 16 in the coaches poll. If you win, you will be ranked high.
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As counterpoint, here's an update to an alternate system that might be more manageable. All teams control their own destiny, and it recognizes those conferences who ARE better conferences by using a direct on-field comparision between them. But it also ensures that teams who do all that are asked of them (by going undefeated) do not miss out on an opporutnity to prove that they're the best in the land (look to TCU this year, or Auburn in years' past for examples). Finally, it gives a nod to pollsters who are unlikely to embrace a system that does not include them while limiting the # of teams to a manageable 3-game post-season tourney.

8-team playoff:
- FIVE berths reserved for Conference Champions, one of which is for the Conference that is home to the defending national champion ("holders"), the other four given to the Conferences who posted the best cumulative out-of-conference record against other Conferences. (IMO, there is no better way to measure each Conference against one another than to use the games they played).
- THREE berths reserved for At Large teams, awarded to the highest-polling schools who did not earn a Conference berth
- If there any undefeated teams not included in the eight already-awarded berths, the first one bumps the lowest-ranked At Large team. Any other undefeated teams are added to the playoff pool and first-round play-in game are held.

Scheduling/Pairing:
- Play-in games, if any, are the week immediately following the Conference championships (that would be this weekend, Sat 12/11). Games played on campus sites
- Quarter-final games are played two weeks following Conference championships (that would be 12/18). Games played on campus sites.
- Semi-final games are played three weeks later (Saturday 1/8) and are on neutral fields
- Championship game played the week the NFL is on their pre-Super Bowl bye (this year, Saturday 1/29) and is on a neutral field.

For each round, highest-seed plays lowest-seed, but teams from the same conference are prohibited from playing each other unless it is mathematically unavoidable (can only happen if more than half of the remaining teams are from the same conference). Teams that lose in the Quarter-finals (any any play-in games) are eligible for other bowls. Semi-final and Championship games rotate between the five major bowls (Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Orange, and Cotton).

For 2010, your conference ranks are:

1: SEC (42-8 0.840)
2: B12 (41-9 0.820)
3: B10 (35-9 0.795)
4: P10 (21-10 0.677)
5: ACC (31-19 0.620)
6: BIGE (24-16 0.600)
7: WAC (23-17 0.575)
8: MTNW (17-20 0.459)
9: CUSA (21-29 0.420)
10: MAC (16-38 0.296)
11: SUNB (4-32 0.111)

The five Conference bids go to:
Holders = SEC {Auburn)
Automatic Bids = B12 (Oklahoma) / B10 (Wisconsin) / P10 (Oregon) / ACC (Virginia Tech)

On the 5 + 6 conferences, had one Big East team won just one more game against the ACC that they lost, they would've secured 5th place and an automatic bid, sending Connecticut instead of Virginia Tech to the tourney. BC's 16-7 win over Syracuse on Thanksgiving weekend "won" a berth for the ACC - talk about making otherwise unimportant games much more significant!

The end-of-year rankings were (I use the USA Today Coach's Poll):
1 Oregon (34) 12-0 1450 <-- P10 Champion Bid
2 Auburn (24) 13-0 1437 <-- SEC Champion Bid
3 TCU (1) 12-0 1348
4 Wisconsin 11-1 1276 <-- B10 Champion Bid
5 Stanford 11-1 1239
6 Ohio State 11-1 1200
7 Michigan State 11-1 1104
8 Arkansas 10-2 1008
8 Oklahoma 11-2 1008 <-- B12 Champion Bid
10 Boise State 11-1 914
11 Virginia Tech 11-2 900 <-- ACC Champion Bid

The At-large teams would be TCU, Sanford, and Ohio State

There are no undefeated teams not already in the field, so no play-in games will be necessary

The seeds would be:
1/Oregon [P10]
2/Auburn [SEC]
3/TCU [MTNW]
4/Wisconsin [B10]
5/Stanford [P10]
6/Ohio State [B10]
7/Oklahoma [B12]
8/Virginia Tech [ACC]

Quarter-final games (12/18) would be:
8/Va Tech (11-2) at 1/Oregon (12-0)
7/Oklahoma (11-2) at 2/Auburn (13-0)
6/Ohio State (11-1) at 3/TCU (12-0)
5/Stanford (11-1) at 4/Wisconsin (11-1)

Semi-final games (1/8) would be:
Highest seed vs Lowest seed at Sugar Bowl
Remaining seeds at Rose Bowl

Championship (1/29) at Fiesta Bowl
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[quote]- FIVE berths reserved for Conference Champions, one of which is for the Conference that is home to the defending national champion ("holders"), the other four given to the Conferences who posted the best cumulative out-of-conference record against other Conferences. (IMO, there is no better way to measure each Conference against one another than to use the games they played).[/quote]


that gives teams even more incentive to schedule creampuffs.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291819470' post='948979']
that gives teams even more incentive to schedule creampuffs.
[/quote]
The presumption for this entire discussion is that all Division I-A conferences are equal. Hence the alternative systems that bypasses the BCS (which assumes that there are only 5-6 conferences with teams eligible for a National Championship). If all I-A conferences are indeed equal then there is no such thing as a "creampuff", and using out-of-conference record to rank conferences against one another is perfectly valid mathematically. If they're NOT equal, then divide I-A into two sub-tiers and kill-off the BCS as unnecessary. I'm good either way.
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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' timestamp='1291826542' post='948999']
The presumption for this entire discussion is that all Division I-A conferences are equal. Hence the alternative systems that bypasses the BCS (which assumes that there are only 5-6 conferences with teams eligible for a National Championship). If all I-A conferences are indeed equal then there is no such thing as a "creampuff", and using out-of-conference record to rank conferences against one another is perfectly valid mathematically. If they're NOT equal, then divide I-A into two sub-tiers and kill-off the BCS as unnecessary. I'm good either way.
[/quote]

It also doesnt take into account that the BCS teams play 75% percent of their ooc games at home and that home teams win 75% percent of their OOC games.

I am not sure I have seen a more flawed system that does not really take into account the teams from the non AQ now and does less to help teams build.
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[quote name='AmishBengalFan' timestamp='1291826542' post='948999']
The presumption for this entire discussion is that all Division I-A conferences are equal. Hence the alternative systems that bypasses the BCS (which assumes that there are only 5-6 conferences with teams eligible for a National Championship). If all I-A conferences are indeed equal then there is no such thing as a "creampuff", and using out-of-conference record to rank conferences against one another is perfectly valid mathematically. If they're NOT equal, then divide I-A into two sub-tiers and kill-off the BCS as unnecessary. I'm good either way.
[/quote]


even if all conferences are equal, that doesn't mean all teams are equal.


In this equation, beating Vanderbilt is just as valuable as beating Alabama. It doesn't consider how good the team is at all, just that they aren't in your conference.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291669360' post='948492']
Gives you:

Auburn
Oregon
TCU
Stanford
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Arkansas State
Michigan State
LSU
Nevada/Boise State
Missouri
Virginia Tech
Oklahoma State
Nevada/Boise State
Alabama

So I guess Nevada/Boise State both get in here, but there may be a tiebreaker for seeding.

Essentially its the BCS rankings as they are now (coincidence). If the Big East, Conference USA or MAC had any teams ranked in the top 20 of the BCS rankings they would get preference over the bottom rung schools like Alabama, Nevada/Boise State, and Okie State.


If your conference can't put a team in the top 20 of the BCS rankings, I just can't justify them being in a 16 team tournament.
[/quote]

This. Would be a sweet ass playoff scenario... you're talking 4 weeks of premier matchups... top-tier talent.
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