Guest oldschooler Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 WOW ! What are we supposed to do ? Give them Thermapedic mattresses and steak ? Why is it that "some" people want to blame the U.S. for everything ? I mean to hear "some" people talk you`d think Saddam did nothing wrong. The people that are at Guantanamo Bay aren`t there because they jay-walked with their goats. These people were shooting at our soldiers or were found doing stuff that they SHOULDN`T have been doing ! They have more rights IN PRISON than they want others to have...but we are oppressive, shameful, disgusting and behaving like a tyrant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:46 AM']1) I spent some time at Gitmo in the 70s; it's a desolate and isolated place. It is also not technically US soil. That's why it was chosen as the location of a prison for illegal enemy combatants (I think that's the phrase.) Review the recent Supreme Court case re prisoner status to get both sides of the story. 2) [url="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content?050214fa_fact6"]Extraordinary rendering[/url] anyone? 3) Some people think that bashing Bush, with reason, is positively pro-American <edit--addition; edit again.> 4)"Shit jessica lynch was raped repeatedly." False. She MAY have been anally raped while she was unconscious; if so, heinous, but understand that anal rape in Arab culture is about humiliation. In any case, no reason to retaliate in places like Abu Graib. [right][post="98193"][/post][/right][/quote] So if u were captured. U would like to be analy raped and consider this a fair and just and not say they are violating ur civil rights...... and they call us tyranical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 The question that should end this stupid debate. If you were fighting in this war, who would you rather be captured by, the US or the Muslims? Anyone who says the muslims has a deathwish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:55 AM']What are we supposed to do ? Give them Thermapedic mattresses and steak ?[/quote] No, of course, not. We are supposed to abide by the Geneva Convention. No more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 unbelievable... we should have been "interegating" these "freedom fighter" before we had a 747 run into two or our biggest buildings.. we could have saved a few thousand people... a couple of things bj: -there not pow's... sorry that offends you but they are dudes that were firing weapons at us... do i agree that they have no lawyers, and haven't been charged: no... but i agree that we should do it, to protect ourselves... these aren't engineers or something.. they are trained "freedom fighters" (i hate that fuckin' word)... [b]-"For instance Zarqawi and the # 2 man in Al Qaeda both were tortured for years in their home governments after the U.S. traded them in to Egypt and Jordan and then payed off their governments to torture them. (No wonder the fuckers want to crash planes into our buildings) So now we have started doing it again (not sure if we ever stopped)."[/b] - i'm sure that zarquawi used to be a pretty cool dude -amnesty international has about zero credit... that would be b/c all their sources are terrorists... or whatever you want to call someone that wants to innilate us... including you, who are sticking up for them... how about the "freedom fighters" who bombed the iraqi police protest, when they were protesting the pay... they really care about the cause of muslims, right? -where are these "allegations" of torcher documented? is this what American Internation/detainees said? <cough> no credit <cough> -"[b]To the rest of the world we look like a bunch of hooligan idiotic disgraceful clowns who have been piling up naked bodies, shoving shit up dudes asses, having chicks walk around naked guys on collars, sending off Detainees to Tyrant governments to be tortured, captives have been mysteriously dying, we have been using water torture etc. (All practices we say are illegal), and then Bush gets up on stage to the Iraqis and says we are here "To liberate you from a tyrant with torture chambers" = Hello Dumbfuck what do you call what we are doing?"[/b] who cares what they think of us? seriously, b/c they are going to hate us reguardelss... but reguardless, it is the indiviuals that are doing these... it isn't the gov't or at least, that hasn't been proven to me... about sending detainees off to get info, i guess we should just let them go, and have absolutely no intelligence? how the hell are we going to get the intellegence? did we not liberate the iraqi people from a tyrant? am i in the twightlite zone? i can half way buy the "no wmd's" arguement, but your saying we didn't free these people? what the fuck? [b]"One mans terrorist is another mans Freedom fighter"[/b] does that make them right for killing american citizens for policies that they had nothing to do w/? they ARE terrorists if they use fear to try to change others countries policies... these people considered freedom fighters to the terrorists... to the rest of the world, they are terrorists... [b]"To give you an analogy if you have seen the Movie "Braveheart" .... I am sure you rooted for William Wallace... (to fight off the oppressive English) well how is that different from an insurgent in the middle East or a Palestinian who is forced to live in a caged in shithole with no rights."[/b] what a joke... so you are comparing zarqawi and bin laden to william wallace... unbelievable that that makes sense to you... we weren't talking about palenstine.. we were talking about detainees, that were picked up in afghanistan, training or involved w/ the taliban... [b]"(Terrorists don't fall out of thin air, they are created when you continually kick someone when they are down and destroy all of their sense of identity and dignity. That is what drives a man to blow himself up.... Not "evil". "[/b] their koran says to kill the infidels, which happens to be me... they have hated christians for longer than american has been around... how does america "kicking them" cause this hatred.. if we were giving them food and water, they would still hate us... wouldn't matter... what drives them to blow theirselves up is their bible and faith... they think they get 70 something virgins if they are a martyr... it has nothing to do w/ american policies... [b]Do Christians not believe that if they follow the works of Jesus that they go to Heaven ??? [/b] yes... does the koran say if you kill innocent infadels, you will have 72 virgins? [b]Are their christians that believe that the war on terror is doing the will of God by protecting the homeland? Do many of these proclaimed Christian soldiers think that killing fellow men in battle will disqualify them from heaven? - No in fact they have now morphed christianity and nationalism almost together (to my disgust)....[/b] anything that has to do w/ God, is "to your disgust"... who's being closed minded? [b]Believe me I am the first to point out Religions negative impact on people, society etc. and dispise religion to the point where I would like to see it eradicated all together... however I believe that if swapped places many of the same men and women on this board or in any case would believe closely to how these men do and possibly act out in a simlar fashion.[/b] you, point out negativity of religion... NO!!! if i swapped places w/ a muslim man or woman in the middle east, i would be embarressed that these crazy muslims are highjacking my religion... i would never, ever say that killing yourself, for Allah is a just cause.... [b]How many Americans do you hear say (if anyone comes in my house or threatens my family I'll kill them) Now imagine that Iran tomorrow claimed they were liberating us Americans from Bush and we woke up and were informed that Iran had now captured Bush and Iranian troops started walking your neighborhood, arresting your nieghbors, abusing your wife, and then claimed that they were there to liberate you. Would you not contemplate taking up arms, or defending your family or even using explosives to repel them ???? [/b] to simplistic... sure i'd kill a trespasser in my house... the difference is bush isn't killing his own people... how can you compare suddam to bush? [b]The it is not a "country" but "individuals" is also a very weak and incomplete argument. Last time I checked "Countries" are not personified entities, and countries can't do anything.... people representing those countries however can. And the leadership for those countries usually provides the direction for what is done. For instance Germany as a country did not exterminate Jews, German citizens in uniforms did. I just wish that Americans understood that sometimes we can also be the eptiomy of what disgusts us, when we witness it in others. [/b] so if i steal from my company, my owner should do the time for me, huh? about your newfound hatred for bush: heres why some might not believe AI:[url="http://www.disastercenter.com/terror/Al_Qaeda_Manual_Eighteen_LESSON.htm"]click here[/url] [quote]1 . At the beginning of the trial, once more the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by State Security [investigators ]before the judge. 2. Complain [to the court] of mistreatment while in prison.[/quote] the first two rules, tell them to do that... we will never know if they were true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='BengalsCat' date='Jun 1 2005, 10:02 AM']So if u were captured. U would like to be analy raped and consider this a fair and just and not say they are violating ur civil rights...... and they call us tyranical... [right][post="98204"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I don't quite get your point here. Is torture good or bad, independent of who does the torturing? I'd say it is bad. I'd also say that creating a climate wherein torture becomes acceptable is criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Jason' date='Jun 1 2005, 10:04 AM']The question that should end this stupid debate. If you were fighting in this war, who would you rather be captured by, the US or the Muslims? Anyone who says the muslims has a deathwish. [right][post="98205"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] The question that should end stupid questions. If your feet turned into porcupines, what would you do? There is cause and effect in the world and I think BJ is honestly concerned about the effects of our treatment of those we have detained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:23 AM']The question that should end stupid questions. If your feet turned into porcupines, what would you do? There is cause and effect in the world and I think BJ is honestly concerned about the effects of our treatment of those we have detained. [right][post="98216"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] No I agree that the torture affects the world view on us in a negative light and i think that physical torture should be stopped. But this is prison. This should not be easy on these people at all but i don't think torture is all that unfair with the way they treat us if we were captured. So i can understand why we use it on them. But i think it should be limited to more phycological means of breaking them which i dont consider as bad as physical tourture. I think that is a little clearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:23 AM']The question that should end stupid questions. If your feet turned into porcupines, what would you do? There is cause and effect in the world and I think BJ is honestly concerned about the effects of our treatment of those we have detained. [right][post="98216"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] So, instead of answering the question, you come back with something stupid. Our treatment of the prisoners is infinitely superior to how they have treated theirs. They don't seem to care about world opinion. Edit: And frankly, I don't give a damn what the French and Germans think of us. Here's the difference. We are interogating to save lives, they are torturing for the glory of alla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Jason' date='Jun 1 2005, 12:24 PM']Here's the difference. We are interogating to save lives, they are torturing for the glory of alla. [right][post="98234"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] ding ding ding, you win the prize. They torture and kill the prisoners just to act superior and show them up. We torture to get information, notice how we dont kill. Big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:10 AM']No, of course, not. We are supposed to abide by the Geneva Convention. No more, no less. [right][post="98209"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] While the effects of the torture worry me as well, isn't the Geneva Convention afforded to individuals from countries that we are at war with and not so much terrorists? After all I highly doubt the terrorists have been applying the Geneva Convention on us, as a matter of fact I'm sure of it. A) They don't represent a Country and therefore cant negotiate on the basis of the Geneva convention and B ) Even if they did, Chopping the heads off civilian prisoners (Nick Berg) no way follows the Geneva Convention This isn’t conventional warfare in which we are fighting an army of a specific country and they us, where the Geneva Convention would apply. So long as its a last resort when all other options have been exhausted I think we cant pretend that torture shouldn’t be an option. Was it the last option here? I don’t know better than any of the others here but I hope that it was the last option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:10 AM']No, of course, not. We are supposed to abide by the Geneva Convention. No more, no less. [right][post="98209"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] That would be like the Bengals playing by NFL rules, and their opponents playing 2 hand touch rules... Yeah...that seems fair. [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/nut.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:05 PM']While the effects of the torture worry me as well, isn't the Geneva Convention afforded to individuals from countries that we are at war with and not so much terrorists? After all I highly doubt the terrorists have been applying the Geneva Convention on us, as a matter of fact I'm sure of it. A) They don't represent a Country and therefore cant negotiate on the basis of the Geneva convention and Even if they did, Chopping the heads off civilian prisoners (Nick Berg) no way follows the Geneva Convention This isn’t conventional warfare in which we are fighting an army of a specific country and they us where the Geneva Convention would apply. So long as its a last resort when all other options have been exhausted I think we cant pretend that torture shouldn’t be an option. Was it the last option here? I don’t know better than any of the others here but I hope that it was the last option. [right][post="98242"][/post][/right][/quote] A good number of the people in Cuba are neither terrorists nor soldiers. What the US did in the first few months in Kabul was to offer bounties on suspected terrorists. They would pay the warlords $1500, for example, if they brought in someone who [i]the local warlords[/i] thought was a terrorist. Obviously, these people turned in a lot of folks who were just minding there own business, simply to get the bounty. Even if you are willing to ignore the moral consequences of shunning the Geneva Convention (which people around here are, it seems like), you have to look at it practically. We can not afford to piss the arab world off more than we have too. And as for how the situation is being dealt with, it seems like we are doing the exact opposite of what took place 60 years ago at the Nuremburg Trials. Instead of assuming that evil leaders controlled the people below, we are assuming that the individual soldiers acted independantly of command. Now, I'm sure that one of our fine vets on here will testify that you don't do anything in the armed forces without an order to do so, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Jason' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:24 AM']So, instead of answering the question, you come back with something stupid.[/quote] It wasn't a legitimate question. Furthermore, the question of torture is not a matter of degree, but a matter of law, conscience and honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:19 PM']That would be like the Bengals playing by NFL rules, and their opponents playing 2 hand touch rules... Yeah...that seems fair. [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/nut.gif[/img] [right][post="98267"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I'll see your Bengals analogy and raise you one: Why is it that some folks who complained about Mike Brown and the poor corporate culture he led here for 14 years are so willing to follow the poor governing culture that leads us now? Treaties? We don't need no stinkin' treaties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 06:10 PM']I'll see your Bengals analogy and raise you one: Why is it that some folks who complained about Mike Brown and the poor corporate culture he led here for 14 years are so willing to follow the poor governing culture that leads us now? Treaties? We don't need no stinkin' treaties... [right][post="98349"][/post][/right][/quote] I for 1 always thought Mike Brown was doing it the way his Dad taught him too...he just had some bad luck (draft busts) and he should have used Free Agency more...plus Dave Shula was never Head Coach material. [b]Anyway...isn`t a Treaty something that BOTH parties follow ? Yeah...so what treaty did we sign with the Terrorist ? What treaty are the Terrorist following ? [/b] I think it is so amazing how "some" people act like we are doing nothing but bad in Iraq and in the War against terrorism...and want us to abide by certain rules but the people we are fighting use those rules AGAINST us. They`re not worried about any Treaties or Conventions... unless THEY are caught...then they wanna act like we should put them up in a Holiday Inn or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='#22' date='Jun 1 2005, 07:57 PM']A good number of the people in Cuba are neither terrorists nor soldiers. What the US did in the first few months in Kabul was to offer bounties on suspected terrorists. They would pay the warlords $1500, for example, if they brought in someone who [i]the local warlords[/i] thought was a terrorist. Obviously, these people turned in a lot of folks who were just minding there own business, simply to get the bounty. Even if you are willing to ignore the moral consequences of shunning the Geneva Convention (which people around here are, it seems like), you have to look at it practically. We can not afford to piss the arab world off more than we have too. And as for how the situation is being dealt with, it seems like we are doing the exact opposite of what took place 60 years ago at the Nuremburg Trials. Instead of assuming that evil leaders controlled the people below, we are assuming that the individual soldiers acted independantly of command. Now, I'm sure that one of our fine vets on here will testify that you don't do anything in the armed forces without an order to do so, right? [right][post="98341"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Haven’t they let a lot of those guys go though? I mean one would think they can’t hold them but so long with no real evidence on them. And I’m not saying shun the Geneva Convention, actually even though it doesn’t really apply I think we should use it as a guideline but understand that they don’t have the same luxury and most definitely are not following anything like it. They aren’t stupid, they have obviously studied our wars and use the gorilla like tactics we used (though on a more drastic scale) against England during the revolution, to listen to them speak you know they believe this to be not only their revolution but their crusades. What I’m saying is that we should take the high ground as much as we possibly can, but we can’t be naive enough to believe that torture is never an option especially when the Geneva Convention doesn’t really apply and most definitely doesn’t apply as far as they are concern. I’m speaking solely about actual terrorists and not just suspects they don’t have any real reason to believe they are terrorists. Edit: Also understand that I’m not just talking about physical torture, which absolutely should be a last option, but things like sleep depravation, sensory deprivation, missed meals, Celene Dion concerts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I think too many people are blinded by the media's disinformation and hatred towards Bush and are led to false beliefs in what is really going on in the world! Anyway who gives a flying fuck what the rest of the world thinks about us anyway? they hate us! they always have hated us and they will continue to hate us regardless of what we do, good bad or indifferent! Until of course they need something from us i.e. Food, Medicine, disaster relief then they will hate us again after they're done sponging off us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Storm' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:02 PM']I think too many people are blinded by the media's disinformation and hatred towards Bush and are led to false beliefs in what is really going on in the world! Anyway who gives a flying fuck what the rest of the world thinks about us anyway? they hate us! they always have hated us and they will continue to hate us regardless of what we do, good bad or indifferent! Until of course they need something from us  i.e. Food, Medicine, disaster relief   then they will hate us again after they're done sponging off us! [right][post="98368"][/post][/right][/quote] You sound [i]exactly[/i] like Charles Lindbergh did 65 years ago. Of course then he would follow all of this talk up by saying that Roosevelt was more dangerous than Hitler while showing off his Nazi medal [img]http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/misc/lindbergh/order_of_the_german_eagle_with_star_shrunk.jpg[/img] When are people going to grow up? [quote]Haven’t they let a lot of those guys go though? I mean one would think they can’t hold them but so long with no real evidence on them. They aren’t stupid, they have obviously studied our wars and use the gorilla like tactics we used (though on a more drastic scale) against England during the revolution, to listen to them speak you know they believe this to be not only their revolution but their crusades.[/quote] Yeah, the ones they have let go have been the ones saying that it was a royal shithole. And yeah, everyone else there (with maybe a dozen exceptions for 9/11 collaborators) is being held without a case against them. You make it sound like Guerilla warfare was devised right here in the U.S. of A, when it obviously has been in use for far, far longer. Any time that one group is being invaded for imperialistic reasons, et cetera, by a larger nation with massively better technology, you can expect to see people using the land to their advantage. And George Bush was originally going to call Enduring Freedom a Crusade. He used the term repeatedly after 9/11 (most notably in his famous "Dead or Alive" speech on 9.18.01). One of the major problems in any war is one side's misperception of the other. Obviously the minority of people in Iraq who are inciting violence are doing it for one of two reasons. A few thought before the war that we were "The Great Satan" and all of that shit, and now a few more have taken up the fight because they are pissed off at us for invading their country. Our perception of Iraqis is that they are all against us, that Islam is telling them to kill us, etc. Religion has a much smaller place in this entire affair than what the Neo-Cons would have you believe. Saddam Hussein gave less than two shits about what religion he was (the #5 man in his cabinet was a Christian), and only used it when it was to his advantage (much like another ruling group is many miles to the west). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 It is somewhat aggravating to me as an American that our help is welcomed when needed but yet when we act in our own defense or best interest long term, somehow everyone that was willing to accept our handouts suddenly becomes our enemy... Guantanamo Bay is a tough issue...I don't think that any of us here really know what's going on there, nor do I give much, if any, credit to anything Amnesty International has to say on the subject. I don't like the idea of torture, but I think it along with war is often considered a necessary evil and a means to an end where people must consider the long term benefits of such activity for our national security... I believe the time has come where we will no longer coddle those who threaten us, directly or otherwise. I want us to instill a culture of fear amongst the terrorists so they will think twice before they attack us...I want there to be dire consequences for anyone who would harm us and our allies in this moving target of a "war"... I think that we ARE trying to walk the very, very fine moral high ground line between stooping to the level of our enemies (perceived or otherwise) and maintaining a set of higher standards that dignifies us as America and sets us apart from the rest of the world...we have a history of treating our POW's MUCH better than our enemies in wars past have afforded us...I believe we should, AND I BELIEVE WE ARE continuing this philosophy... So much for not touching the issue with a ten-foot pole... I cannot wait for the diversion of the NFL season so I'll have an excuse to ignore the news, politics, etc...I just want to bury my head in the NFL sand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Who said I was talking about Iraq? I said terrorists, I mean guys like Abu Faraj Al-Libbi. If I was talking about Iraq it might be able to be argued that they might fall under the Geneva Convention (though Im not sure they signed that treaty) but I'm talking about the terrorists like Al-Libbi. The Iraqi's werent the ones who cut Bergs' head off, that was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's group which we know is working with Bin Laden. al-Qaeda isnt a nation they dont fall under the geneva convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Jun 1 2005, 08:02 PM']It wasn't a legitimate question. Furthermore, the question of torture is not a matter of degree, but a matter of law, conscience and honor. [right][post="98344"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Why wasn't it a legitimate question? We treat our prisoners better than they do. In hindsight, would you have tortured one of the "pilots" on 9-11 if it would have lead to info that could have stopped a plane from hitting one of the towers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote]You sound exactly like Charles Lindbergh did 65 years ago. Of course then he would follow all of this talk up by saying that Roosevelt was more dangerous than Hitler while showing off his Nazi medal When are people going to grow up?[/quote] Grow up and what? Wallow in the shame of living in the greatest country in the world? If you guys are ashamed of our country which happens to be the most caring and moral country in the world then you might want to consider immigrating to another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote]al-Qaeda isnt a nation they dont fall under the geneva convention.[/quote] The Geneva Convention doesn't pertain to the aggressor so much as it does to the nation trying to be the "shining city on a hill." [quote]If you guys are ashamed of our country which happens to be the most caring and moral country in the world then you might want to consider immigrating to another![/quote] "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's a simple matter to drag the people along...all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goehring at the Nuremburg Trials 1947. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAYCAT Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Wars of the past everybody pretty much new who the enemy was by uniform. British:red coats Germans:the nazi sign and helmet design. Korea:uniform's when they wore them,things started to change. Vietnam: you didn't know who the enemy was. Now things are different. It has to be by rock solid info and you have to get it by any means. I don't like that it has to be done,but it does. If our military didn't do what they have been doing, then we all would not be here enjoying what we do right now. Countries don't fight fair anymore. It's ugly,it sucks. But when it comes down to it. Better them than me. Storm is right. Most countries don't like us they just want our money and help. Isolation didn't work in the early 1900's. It won't work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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