BigDawgBengal Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I wanted Marvin gone but if there is major changes made and he comes back I will be ok with that. If he comes back and no changes were made, I will be very upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccartman2 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1294162963' post='957678'] I wanted Marvin gone but if there is major changes made and he comes back I will be ok with that. If he comes back and no changes were made, I will be very upset. [/quote] If no changes are made, does it matter who is coaching the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoDeyMatt Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1294161763' post='957661'] that's awesome. now point me to the source of your definition, and convince me i should include 2008 in the discussion. [/quote] If you think 60-67-1 is above or at ANYONES definition of "par" then I dont know what to tell you. He coached in 08 didnt he? He was the one making the QB decisions, and the roster moves wasnt he? I mean if injuries get you off the hook for your record then there will be a lot of coaches lining up to get their records modified, and their jobs back., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1294162388' post='957673'] Why is that? Maybe Marvin was looking at the prospect of not having a job and didn't want to be unemployed. Maybe, and quite possibly, Marvin with his 4-12 record this year made the concessions. Just saying a 4-12 coach isn't ususally weilding a very big stick. [/quote] 4-12 ISN'T a big stick to wield, but that coupled with playoffs and NFL coach of the year in 2009 would be for any coach... not too mention that Marvin the ONLY coach to get us to the post season since Mike Brown took over. As was stated by other posters, loyalty from Brown to Marvin absolutely HAS to be in play here also. We weren't as good as many thought in 2009, and not as bad as many think this past year So many close losses this year and so many late heroics in 2009 skewed many fans point of view. Mine included somewhat... and it's obvious (at least to me) that adding TO and mixing that with Ocho was NOT a recipe for success. Too many diva's and not enough "team first" going on. TO's numbers don't mean jack shit when you aren't winning. It's the same thing a Dillon's number, Picken's numbers...etc. This is the first year since the late 80's/early 90's that people were EXPECTING a possible Super Bowl run. With those expectations smashed, the let down is that much harsher. Let's wait and see what/if any "concessions" were made, and then let's crucify or praise as everyone deems necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Eh, Marvin supporters are ultimately writing checks his coaching record tells you won't be cashed. When that time comes again, it will once again be Mike Brown's fault. It's a sad day for bengal fans. Mike's loyalty to anyone doesn't get me comfortable with improvement on the football field. Just another way to say "yes man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I hate quoting hearsay; [quote]Marvin wants Mike to turn over GM duties to him.[/quote] Not sure if there is any truth to this or not but we'll all see very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294158833' post='957610'] You can never book it unti it's official but it's looking like he's coming back. [b]Bad move, IMO.[/b] The next round of pissing matches - Brat. Does he stay or does he go. It's the first indicator to see if Marvin really got anything. [/quote] I'm shocked!! Shocked, I'd say!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I believe if Marvin wasn't getting what he wants he'd be gone... Hope the reports are true. The Bengals are finally maybe hopefully re-entering the NFL after 20 years in the abyss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294163605' post='957685'] Eh, Marvin supporters are ultimately writing checks his coaching record tells you won't be cashed. When that time comes again, it will once again be Mike Brown's fault. It's a sad day for bengal fans. [/quote] You are something else. And don't take that as a compliment. People look at it like Marvin has been asked to build houses with a staple gun in the past. So why wouldn't we think he would build better houses if he was actually given the right tools to build houses? And IF, not when, IF that time comes again, it will be Marvin's fault you stupid a-hole. LOL My God how thick you are. Sad day? You mellow dramatic drama queen. Good Lord. Go soak your head in the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294163950' post='957689'] You are something else. And don't take that as a compliment. People look at it like Marvin has been asked to build houses with a staple gun in the past. So why would we think he would build better houses if he was actually given the right tools to build houses? And IF, not when, IF that time comes again, it will be Marvin's fault you stupid a-hole. LOL My God how thick you are. Sad day? You mellow dramatic drama queen. Good Lord. Go soak your head in the toilet. [/quote] Please tell us how you really feel and don't hold back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoDey85 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294163605' post='957685'] Eh, Marvin supporters are ultimately writing checks his coaching record tells you won't be cashed. When that time comes again, it will once again be Mike Brown's fault. It's a sad day for bengal fans. Mike's loyalty to anyone doesn't get me comfortable with improvement on the football field. Just another way to say "yes man". [/quote] What about the bigger picture? Regardless of whether or not you or I think Marvin is a good coach, if positive changes are being made in terms of football operations, I would consider that a good thing. If nothing changes in terms of front office management, then whay does it matter who our coach is? He will be handcuffed by soP, just like Marvin has been. The fact that MB is willing to concede to Marvin's demands shows that maybe things are beginning to turn around in terms of running a successful franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='WhoDey85' timestamp='1294164202' post='957694'] What about the bigger picture? Regardless of whether or not you or I think Marvin is a good coach, if positive changes are being made in terms of football operations, I would consider that a good thing. If nothing changes in terms of front office management, then whay does it matter who our coach is? He will be handcuffed by soP, just like Marvin has been. The fact that MB is willing to concede to Marvin's demands shows that maybe things are beginning to turn around in terms of running a successful franchise. [/quote] as someone else eloquently said: "rage blinds" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [b][url="http://twitter.com/bradjohansen"][color="#0a0501"]bradjohansen[/color][/url][/b] [url=""] [/url] RT @[url="http://twitter.com/Old_schooler"][color="#0a0501"]Old_schooler[/color][/url]: @[url="http://twitter.com/bradjohansen"][color="#0a0501"]bradjohansen[/color][/url] Do you think that if Marvin stays, that he will replace any assistants? Say yes. //part of the sticking pt [url="http://twitter.com/bradjohansen/status/22349643174125568"]2 minutes ago[/url] via [url="http://www.tweetdeck.com/"]TweetDeck[/url] Please, please, please,please, please,please, please,please, please, please, please,please, please,please, please PUH-LEEZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294163605' post='957685'] Eh, Marvin supporters are ultimately writing checks his coaching record tells you won't be cashed. When that time comes again, it will once again be Mike Brown's fault. It's a sad day for bengal fans. Mike's loyalty to anyone doesn't get me comfortable with improvement on the football field. Just another way to say "yes man". [/quote] There were those that said he wouldn't be able to win at all when he was hired in 2003... they were wrong. Got a feeling that nothing will make you happy until ownership is changed... even then I'm not too sure. Sad part is that we will NEVER know how/if Marvins hands were tied by Brown, if coaches were forced onto him, if personnel decisions were forced on him...etc/ad nauseum. Yet YOU (and others as well) will lay blame and find him guilty without evidence. Interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='WhoDey85' timestamp='1294164202' post='957694'] What about the bigger picture? Regardless of whether or not you or I think Marvin is a good coach, if positive changes are being made in terms of football operations, I would consider that a good thing. If nothing changes in terms of front office management, then whay does it matter who our coach is? He will be handcuffed by soP, just like Marvin has been. The fact that MB is willing to concede to Marvin's demands shows that maybe things are beginning to turn around in terms of running a successful franchise. [/quote] truthfully.... If Marvin gets MB to bring the franchise into the 21st century, we all have already won.... and kudos to MB for making the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote]Could be totally wrong on this one, but I think Brat has one more year on his deal. I would actually be okay with his return for the last year of his deal with the provision that he has to meet Marvin's standards before getting another contract. [/quote] That's what supposedly happened in 2003 and everytime Brat got his contract renewed. It would be a serious buzz kill to an already buzz kill that is a 4-12 coach returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [b]MORE MARVIN MEANS LESS EXCUSES[/b] Everyone who works for the Bengals has a built-in excuse. Coach doesn't win, he can point the finger upstairs. Player underachieves, he can blame the owner. Paul Brown Stadium escalator doesn't work, the guy in charge of it can probably pin it on Mike Brown. The thing is, the longer you work for the Bengals, or play for the Bengals, or coach them, the less often you can blame Mike Brown for you failures. Ever know someone in an awful marriage and all he does is complain about his wife? She nags him, cuts off his buddies, even cheats on him, and you listen to the guy complain. You hear him out, offer suggestions, listen to him make excuses and blame her for the reasons his life is in the dumper. You do this for a while, but he never leaves. He stays in the marriage, refusing to bail, even as her behavior continues. And after awhile, you tire of hearing about how evil she is and start to wonder what the hell is wrong with him. The longer he stays in the relationship, the less you want to hear about how miserable he is, or how awful she is. That's how I feel about Marvin Lewis. If he stays, the Mike Brown excuse won't apply nearly as much as it did in years one through eight. Matter of fact, it applies less every year. Given an out, Marvin might decide to stay, to keep coaching this team despite the limitations that exist when working for Mike Brown. Now maybe Mike concedes a few things, which is a positive step, but those concessions will only make the coach more responsible for the team's fortunes, positive or negative. Marvin staying means he's accepting his role and the parameters that come with it. It means he's putting the onus on himself more than ever. It means the Mike Brown excuse card can't be played nearly as much. If the Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis marriage continues, I don't want to hear how miserable it is if Marvin declines to option to end it. [url="http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna"]http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='WhoDey85' timestamp='1294164202' post='957694'] What about the bigger picture? Regardless of whether or not you or I think Marvin is a good coach, if positive changes are being made in terms of football operations, I would consider that a good thing. If nothing changes in terms of front office management, then whay does it matter who our coach is? He will be handcuffed by soP, just like Marvin has been. The fact that MB is willing to concede to Marvin's demands shows that maybe things are beginning to turn around in terms of running a successful franchise. [/quote] The bigger picture is the won/loss record, followed by playoff appearances, playoff wins, and then championships. Fans will not have the resources to measure the change within the walls of PBS. They have the win/loss record to judge. So, I don't believe Marvin is a coach that will deliver that measurement of success. I think it will continue to be this silly back and forth arguing about who's really doing what and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='WhoDeyMatt' timestamp='1294163162' post='957682'] If you think 60-67-1 is above or at ANYONES definition of "par" then I dont know what to tell you.[/quote] As has been evident throughout this discussion. You definition of par is based solely on season record. My definition takes into account the hands Marvin has been dealt. [quote]He coached in 08 didnt he? He was the one making the QB decisions, and the roster moves wasnt he? I mean if injuries get you off the hook for your record then there will be a lot of coaches lining up to get their records modified, and their jobs back., [/quote] He put a tourniquet on a lost season... Look, we aren't going to come to agreement on Marvin's coaching ability and that rather proves my point. Sub par is your opinion, and not necessarily the opinion of Mike Brown (or me, or many others). You wanted to know why Mike Brown was giving power to Marvin Lewis and not Gruden or Cowher. I gave you 3 good answers (I think there's even another in a separate post). Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1294164318' post='957697'] There were those that said he wouldn't be able to win at all when he was hired in 2003... they were wrong. Got a feeling that nothing will make you happy until ownership is changed... even then I'm not too sure. Sad part is that we will NEVER know how/if Marvins hands were tied by Brown, if coaches were forced onto him, if personnel decisions were forced on him...etc/ad nauseum. Yet YOU (and others as well) will lay blame and find him guilty without evidence. Interesting to say the least. [/quote] How were they wrong? They haven't won it all. Did I miss the Superbowl party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294164839' post='957702'] [b]MORE MARVIN MEANS LESS EXCUSES[/b] Everyone who works for the Bengals has a built-in excuse. Coach doesn't win, he can point the finger upstairs. Player underachieves, he can blame the owner. [b]Paul Brown Stadium escalator doesn't work[/b], the guy in charge of it can probably pin it on Mike Brown. The thing is, the longer you work for the Bengals, or play for the Bengals, or coach them, the less often you can blame Mike Brown for you failures. Ever know someone in an awful marriage and all he does is complain about his wife? She nags him, cuts off his buddies, even cheats on him, and you listen to the guy complain. You hear him out, offer suggestions, listen to him make excuses and blame her for the reasons his life is in the dumper. You do this for a while, but he never leaves. He stays in the marriage, refusing to bail, even as her behavior continues. And after awhile, you tire of hearing about how evil she is and start to wonder what the hell is wrong with him. The longer he stays in the relationship, the less you want to hear about how miserable he is, or how awful she is. That's how I feel about Marvin Lewis. If he stays, the Mike Brown excuse won't apply nearly as much as it did in years one through eight. Matter of fact, it applies less every year. Given an out, Marvin might decide to stay, to keep coaching this team despite the limitations that exist when working for Mike Brown. Now maybe Mike concedes a few things, which is a positive step, but those concessions will only make the coach more responsible for the team's fortunes, positive or negative. Marvin staying means he's accepting his role and the parameters that come with it. It means he's putting the onus on himself more than ever. It means the Mike Brown excuse card can't be played nearly as much. If the Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis marriage continues, I don't want to hear how miserable it is if Marvin declines to option to end it. [url="http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna"]http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna[/url] [/quote] If it's the South endzone escalator, tear it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294164839' post='957702'] [b]MORE MARVIN MEANS LESS EXCUSES[/b] Everyone who works for the Bengals has a built-in excuse. Coach doesn't win, he can point the finger upstairs. Player underachieves, he can blame the owner. Paul Brown Stadium escalator doesn't work, the guy in charge of it can probably pin it on Mike Brown. The thing is, the longer you work for the Bengals, or play for the Bengals, or coach them, the less often you can blame Mike Brown for you failures. Ever know someone in an awful marriage and all he does is complain about his wife? She nags him, cuts off his buddies, even cheats on him, and you listen to the guy complain. You hear him out, offer suggestions, listen to him make excuses and blame her for the reasons his life is in the dumper. You do this for a while, but he never leaves. He stays in the marriage, refusing to bail, even as her behavior continues. And after awhile, you tire of hearing about how evil she is and start to wonder what the hell is wrong with him. The longer he stays in the relationship, the less you want to hear about how miserable he is, or how awful she is. That's how I feel about Marvin Lewis. If he stays, the Mike Brown excuse won't apply nearly as much as it did in years one through eight. Matter of fact, it applies less every year. Given an out, Marvin might decide to stay, to keep coaching this team despite the limitations that exist when working for Mike Brown. Now maybe Mike concedes a few things, which is a positive step, but those concessions will only make the coach more responsible for the team's fortunes, positive or negative. Marvin staying means he's accepting his role and the parameters that come with it. It means he's putting the onus on himself more than ever. It means the Mike Brown excuse card can't be played nearly as much. If the Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis marriage continues, I don't want to hear how miserable it is if Marvin declines to option to end it. [url="http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna"]http://homer247.com/pages/mo.html?an=preston-hanna[/url] [/quote] Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294165180' post='957705'] How were they wrong? They haven't won it all. Did I miss the Superbowl party? [/quote] Win [b]at[/b] all.... Your salty attitude seems to be getting in your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294165298' post='957708'] Truth. [/quote] I don't disagree with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1294165353' post='957710'] Win [b]at[/b] all.... Your salty attitude seems to be getting in your eyes. [/quote] Marvin has a winning record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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