OSU FINALLY BEATS THE SEC!!!!

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294326357' post='958986']
And forgive me for feeling less pity for players who get free food, lodging, education, and spending money for 4 years and of which many of them are too foolish to keep from squandering that great opportunity.



Yes the ohio state players got busted for a rule that I think is kind of dumb. And yes, the NCAA is a huge cash cow. But let's stop pretending that these kids are getting nothing out of the deal.
[/quote]

There you go using that Free word again. Slaves in the South were given free food and lodging too then,
while the slave owners were making all of the money off of their labor.

You are ignoring the fact that these players HAVE to attend College for 3 years to be able to
get a real shot at playing in the NFL. It is forced on them. The only other choice they have
is to play for the CLF like Rashad Jenty HAD to do, because his family needed the money.

And the most talented players usually end up leaving as soon as they are eligible so they
can finally get the money. So the education is usually not even utilized by them in terms of
getting a degree. I mean, how many players are you and Michael Weston hoping and praying
won't stay for their degree and leave early for the NFL this year?

I know it isn't you so much, but to me, I think it is stupid to act like these players (not only Buckeyes)
should be villianized for what they did, while the NCAA keeps being talked about like they are just
trying to give these poor souls a free education. Yes, rules are rules. But that does not mean they
are good or fair rules. They are bullshit IMO.

[MichaelWeston]

Does Terrell Pryor Crim major student from Pennsylvania have any chance of getting into OSU without transferring in? No.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294327733' post='959003']
There you go using that Free word again. Slaves in the South were given free food and lodging too then,
while the slave owners were making all of the money off of their labor.

You are ignoring the fact that these players HAVE to attend College for 3 years to be able to
get a real shot at playing in the NFL. It is forced on them. The only other choice they have
is to play for the CLF like Rashad Jenty HAD to do, because his family needed the money.

And the most talented players usually end up leaving as soon as they are eligible so they
can finally get the money. So the education is usually not even utilized by them in terms of
getting a degree. I mean, how many players are you and Michael Weston hoping and praying
won't stay for their degree and leave early for the NFL this year?

I know it isn't you so much, but to me, I think it is stupid to act like these players (not only Buckeyes)
should be villianized for what they did, while the NCAA keeps being talked about like they are just
trying to give these poor souls a free education. Yes, rules are rules. But that does not mean they
are good or fair rules. They are bullshit IMO.
[/quote]


1) yes 3 years is "forced" on them, but honestly no kid is physically or emotionally ready straight out high school for the riggers of the NFL. We both know that rule isn't just about exploiting these kids.

2) Yes most of them squander away that educational opportunity. Extremely fucking sad.

3) It's really fucking sad you keep comparing this to slavery.

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294327733' post='959003']
There you go using that Free word again. Slaves in the South were given free food and lodging too then,
while the slave owners were making all of the money off of their labor.

You are ignoring the fact that these players HAVE to attend College for 3 years to be able to
get a real shot at playing in the NFL. It is forced on them. The only other choice they have
is to play for the CLF like Rashad Jenty HAD to do, because his family needed the money.

And the most talented players usually end up leaving as soon as they are eligible so they
can finally get the money. So the education is usually not even utilized by them in terms of
getting a degree. I mean, how many players are you and Michael Weston hoping and praying
won't stay for their degree and leave early for the NFL this year?

I know it isn't you so much, but to me, I think it is stupid to act like these players (not only Buckeyes)
should be villianized for what they did, while the NCAA keeps being talked about like they are just
trying to give these poor souls a free education. Yes, rules are rules. But that does not mean they
are good or fair rules. They are bullshit IMO.
[/quote]

Without these rules then you are talking about this no longer being an amateur sport.

[Bengals1181]

further, ignoring the NCAA side of things for the moment, let's get one thing clear:


99% of the universities who have football teams, aren't turning a profit with their athletic department. In fact, many of them have to generate money in other areas of the university to cover deficits in the athletic department.


Do some research on it. Most football programs in the country don't turn a profit, and the one's that do end up using that surplus to fund the other sports at the university.

[nkywestside]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294327432' post='958997']
You dont think a person getting an education in exchange for playing a game they love is making out? I bet that every single person on this board would have been willing to play a sport they loved in exchange for an education. I wonder just how many of those football players at OSU could even get into OSU had they not been able to throw, catch, run with, defend, block for, a football? I would bet the number is very very small.

Just because the schools make out more doesnt mean the players are not also making out.
[/quote]

Let's be honest. The biggest thing the players are making out on is they will have no debt when they leave.
And that debt ($20,000)? was repaid many times over with the hours these guys are asked to put in. It's unbalanced
and I sure as hell don't know how to bring the situation to a more balanced level.

[MichaelWeston]

I am trying to find the youtube link to when that one slave had his press conference announcing he was going to take his cotton picking skills to the Smith Plantation.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294327923' post='959008']
1) yes 3 years is "forced" on them, but honestly no kid is physically or emotionally ready straight out high school for the riggers of the NFL. We both know that rule isn't just about exploiting these kids.

2) Yes most of them squander away that educational opportunity. Extremely fucking sad.

3) It's really fucking sad you keep comparing this to slavery.
[/quote]

1) They don't have an age requirement. They have a years out of High School requirement.
Amobi Okoye was 15 years old when he started going to Louisville and was 19 when he was drafted.

2) It is so sad that most are waiting with baited breath hoping to hear that Fairley, Luck and a host
of others squander that opportunity.

3) What is really fucking sad is that the two are comparable at all.

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294327996' post='959009']
Without these rules then you are talking about this no longer being an amateur sport.
[/quote]


What definition of amateur are you looking at?

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='nkywestside' timestamp='1294328414' post='959016']
Let's be honest. The biggest thing the players are making out on is they will have no debt when they leave.
And that debt ($20,000)? was repaid many times over with the hours these guys are asked to put in. It's unbalanced
and I sure as hell don't know how to bring the situation to a more balanced level.
[/quote]

Where are you getting your figures? $20,000 a year in debt for kids from low income homes? How are they paying for the rest of school? That might be for a year at the very most.

The conservative estimate of 50,000 a year that they get from the U now adds up to 200,000 over their entire careers. Thats books, food, rent, tuition, healthcare etc. etc. etc. Plus, if they play it right and figure out their nich early they could have a Master's degree...In exchange for spending time doing something that people often pay to do.

[MichaelWeston]

How is leaving college early for a 6 figure paycheck squandering an opportunity? Is the college going to close? They cant go back and get their degree.

Squandering hte opportunity is those players who don't take it seriously while they are there.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294328520' post='959019']
1) They don't have an age requirement. They have a years out of High School requirement.
Amobi Okoye was 15 years old when he started going to Louisville and was 19 when he was drafted.

2) It is so sad that most are waiting with baited breath hoping to hear that Fairley, Luck and a host
of others squander that opportunity.

3) What is really fucking sad is that the two are comparable at all.

[/quote]


1) Point taken, but Okoye is certainly the exception, not the rule. Physical and mental maturity is certainly part of it.

2) There's a difference between wasting the opportunity by not graduating, and wasting the opportunity while you're there. I don't blame them for skipping your senior season for a big payday. You can always go back and finish your last year. Reggie Bush even did it a few years ago. However, many of these kids completely air-mail in their college education WHILE they are there. That's the sad part of it.

3) They really aren't. No one's forcing these kids to do it. They're doing it gladly, and as mentioned before, its helped a whole hell of a lot of them get out of some awful situations. They aren't forced to do anything, and they are getting a whole heck of a lot back and treated much better than any slave ever was. I don't know how you can even BEGIN to make that defense.


Is it a business? Yes, absolutely. Is the NCAA getting the better of the deal? hell yea. However, these kids are getting so much given to them its not even funny. Let's not lose sight of that.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294328763' post='959022']
How is leaving college early for a 6 figure paycheck squandering an opportunity? Is the college going to close? They cant go back and get their degree.

Squandering hte opportunity is those players who don't take it seriously while they are there.
[/quote]


Because the majority that leave early have no reason to go back.
They didn't want to go in the first place. And if they wanted to get
a degree, they could go after their NFL career was over anyway.

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294329194' post='959025']
Because the majority that leave early have no reason to go back.
They didn't want to go in the first place. And if they wanted to get
a degree, they could go after their NFL career was over anyway.
[/quote]

I think we are arguing two different things here. If they don't need to go back then they don't go back. If they want to go back they have 3 years done and $400,000 in their pocket.

I have agreed with you all along that it is a free minor league for pro football.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294329177' post='959024']

3) They really aren't. No one's forcing these kids to do it. They're doing it gladly, and as mentioned before, its helped a whole hell of a lot of them get out of some awful situations. They aren't forced to do anything, and they are getting a whole heck of a lot back and treated much better than any slave ever was. I don't know how you can even BEGIN to make that defense.


Is it a business? Yes, absolutely. Is the NCAA getting the better of the deal? hell yea. However, these kids are getting so much given to them its not even funny. Let's not lose sight of that.
[/quote]


I'll just respond to this part because we are getting off topic.
And I have made my stance known pretty well already.

They are forced. They really have no other options. Yes they are treated better than slaves were.
But, have you ever heard of an [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy"]analogy[/url] ?

And it is not given if you have to provide a talent and work for it. The NCCA benefits from all their players.
Not all the players are benefitting as much from the NCAA as they could without all the BS restrictions
forced on them.



[color="#333333"]1. [/color]a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

[color="#333333"]2. [/color]a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person


I think those definitions fit in regards to NCAA players. I think the analogy of slaves
in the South doing all the work and other making all the money off them also fits.


Anyway, I have always been against the way the NCAA does things. Just look at some
other threads in the NCAA forum where I have talked about John Wall going to UK and
other one and done players. There are other instances too.

[Ben]

Student Athletes have the option to leave and pursue other opportunities if they wish. They are not property of the university.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1294330725' post='959034']
Student Athletes have the option to leave and pursue other opportunities if they wish. They are not property of the university.
[/quote]



They don't have the option of playing in the NFL if they wish until a certain time has passed.
Anyone with half a brain knows that was put into place to protect the NCAA game.

They are property of the university while they are there. That is why they aren't allowed
to make any money, have their jerseys sold that they get no money from, have to abide
by ridiculous rules ect or they get punished.

[JC]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1294330725' post='959034']
Student Athletes have the option to leave and pursue other opportunities if they wish. They are not property of the university.
[/quote]
Yeah. A few kids that I know from school have left their scholarship because they just didn't enjoy college athletics very much.

These guys are given a gift from god. $50,000 is being generous. That's only state-funded schools. They get a lot more than what they're putting in. A lot. I've seen kids on the basketball team with part-time jobs on campus to get some cash. It's not like these kids have no options, especially during their off-season. They get the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things. They get to miss test's, only to be able to take them on the road, sometimes with 5 other guys who are taking it as well.

I'd give my left nut to have what they have. It's a ton of money. Probably in the 65K range for state-funded. Heard yesterday Harvard was 30K a year. Imagine 4 years of that, plus food, books, tuition, etc and those kids usually aren't going to go pro in athletics.

[MichaelWeston]

Calling it slavery is just ridiculous. For every kid who gets to endure this slavery there are 50 other kids who would do it for free.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294330003' post='959031']
I'll just respond to this part because we are getting off topic.
And I have made my stance known pretty well already.

They are forced. They really have no other options. Yes they are treated better than slaves were.
But, have you ever heard of an [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy"]analogy[/url] ?

And it is not given if you have to provide a talent and work for it. The NCCA benefits from all their players.
Not all the players are benefitting as much from the NCAA as they could without all the BS restrictions
forced on them.



[color="#333333"]1. [/color]a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

[color="#333333"]2. [/color]a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person


I think those definitions fit in regards to NCAA players. I think the analogy of slaves
in the South doing all the work and other making all the money off them also fits.


Anyway, I have always been against the way the NCAA does things. Just look at some
other threads in the NCAA forum where I have talked about John Wall going to UK and
other one and done players. There are other instances too.
[/quote]



Yes I know what an analogy is, and this is a bad one.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1294331285' post='959035']
[b]They don't have the option of playing in the NFL if they wish until a certain time has passed.[/b]
Anyone with half a brain knows that was put into place to protect the NCAA game.

They are property of the university while they are there. That is why they aren't allowed
to make any money, have their jerseys sold that they get no money from, have to abide
by ridiculous rules ect or they get punished.
[/quote]


There's a slew of jobs I want that I couldn't get before I had my masters degree.


The rule isn't just about "slave labor" and you know it.


What makes you think any NFL team would draft a kid straight out of high school even if they could? Hell, 99% of college players aren't ready for the NFL after their junior year of college.



Let's just put this whole horrible analogy to bed.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294207366' post='958523']
It visually looked hilarious. "Hey walkons come over here and be my crutches"
[/quote]


Pryor is having ankle surgery today as a result of the injury.