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Some answers from Carson - House for sale


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[quote name='F.Cleveland' timestamp='1297295379' post='969462']

As for Carson's pro football career, he signed a contract. You wanna talk about manning in up? How about honoring commitments? How about explaining things like his request and his house going up for sale to us?

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The only argument I can think of against this line of thinking is just how meaningless NFL player contracts can be to the player due to a lack of guaranteed money versus say, baseball contracts. The team can cut you at any time they wish, voiding your contract, and are only on the hook for any guaranteed portion. I don't know what the particulars are of Carson's contract from a guaranteed money standpoint, but this talk of "manning up and honoring your commitment" goes both ways. NFL teams often don't "honor their commitment" to their employees whom are under contract (players...who knows what coaching contracts are like) so I can see how players can feel less than loyal given certain circumstances.




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[quote name='Jungle1' timestamp='1297296694' post='969465']
Nothing against Carson, but I don't know why people are so upset that we may lose a 9th year QB that has never one a playoff game. Carson may have been the best we have had in a while, but it's not like we are losing Brady, Manning or Brees.

If he does leave, we have $11 mil to dump into the offense and shore up the defense. Get a good RB, solidify the line and get an accurate QB. Probably don't need the deep ball in Gruden's offense, just an accurate QB that can make quick throws.
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In slight defense of Carson, that first playoff loss....he had good reason. The second one though.....I'm sorry, he hasn't been "Carson Palmer" since he got his knee taken out. I think if his knee hadn't been blown out like that we'd be looking at an entirely different person today. Fact is, he hasn't been that ace QB since.
MULLY
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[quote name='F.Cleveland' timestamp='1297295379' post='969462']
As for Carson's pro football career, he signed a contract. You wanna talk about manning in up? How about honoring commitments? How about explaining things like his request and his house going up for sale to us?

[/quote]
Since the owners have no obligation to honor the contracts in pro football why must the players be held to a different standard? If he retires, he retires. If Mike Brown released him he wouldn't get a dime. Whats the difference?
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[quote name='turningpoint' timestamp='1297282002' post='969360']
[img]http://www.hcauditor.org/RoverDocuments/V0002725V0364729JPG_med_000_DBD80527CCE641EFBCB526B78A3648B5_V_0.JPG[/img]

Nice house

my guess on listing price.

$1,975,000

Looking at the houses also for sale in his neighborhood, it could be a while 2 others are also for sale, BTW i got a kick out of his neighbors basement....follow link.


http://www.comey.com/displaylist.asw?listnum=1222970&mls=cincy
[/quote]
That house definitely wasn't his....his rec room has Colt's stuff all over it.
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[quote name='Fulcher_33' timestamp='1297297531' post='969469']
In slight defense of Carson, that first playoff loss....he had good reason. The second one though.....[b]I'm sorry, he hasn't been "Carson Palmer" since he got his knee taken out[/b]. I think if his knee hadn't been blown out like that we'd be looking at an entirely different person today. Fact is, he hasn't been that ace QB since.
MULLY
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. He had a pretty damn good 2006 after the knee injury, the offensive line and running game collapsed in 2007 (while Palmer threw the ball a shit ton...I believe both Chad and TJ had 1,000 yards apiece or something similar...but it didn't translate into enough wins...and the defense was horribly injured that season), 2008 his elbow got injured (which I think had more lingering effects than the knee injury ever did), 2009...

Ah, the 2009 season. We swept the division. Won some close games. Made the playoffs. But it was clear to me then at or about the Raiders game and shortly thereafter that something wasn't quite right with the offense. It was a combination of things. The over-reliance on the 6-man line and the run game, Carson forcing balls, Henry getting hurt and then dying, leaving us with no deep threat and nobody else seemed to be able to get open (Coles, Caldwell) in the 2nd half of the season. Not having an NFL-caliber tight end to catch passes. Something was not right. The playcalling, as usual, sucked on offense. The defense wore down, suffered some injuries and limped into the playoffs like the rest of the team. The writing was on the wall when we lost to the Jets in the last game of the season. We got smoked, and the whole "oh, we're resting our starters" thing wasn't totally true. The whole team stunk in that game, and then we misfired badly in the passing game the next time we faced the undeserving Jets in the playoff game, although Cedric Benson had a great game.

Last season was a clusterfuck. Defense regressed, the offensive line continued to be uneven, Carson threw some bad passes, a lot of balls were dropped, the penalties didn't go away, Cedric became a fumbler, some crucial injuries happened (and also opened the door for some young defensive players to shine)...it was a shitty, perfect storm of miscues that aligned against the team in a way that had them losing close or comeback games that they had won the season before. We could have just as easily been 10-6 last season had it not been for a few missed opportunities here or there, some bad drops here or there, some bad penalties that killed drives here or there, etcetera.

All of th above is why I want Palmer back because while I agree that he isn't exactly the same player he was in 2005/2006, he's still a good QB and the reasons we were losing at the end of 2009 and throughout 2010 really weren't mostly his fault. Sure, he has some blame to shoulder (and he has), but he's far down on the list of problems with the team as it stood last season and as it stands right now.
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[quote name='Fulcher_33' timestamp='1297293617' post='969451']
This is such horse shit. You do realize that most families are 1 to 2 paychecks from being on the street? And I'm talking middle class families. People can't just up and quit because they don't like their job, not if they have a family to support. Anyone that would is so irresponsible they deserve for their family to leave them. Carson Palmer has millions in the bank. If he wants to up and quit then more power to him. If he doesn't live like a "playa" then he's got enough cabbage to sit back the rest of his life and not worry about having to work. You can't compare a man working his ass off to make ends meet to a millionaire football player that has the ends meeting like a motherfucker. Sometimes us regular people have to do things we don't like so we can survive. I'm guessing you still live at home.
MULLY
[/quote]

Dude,

We've all done sucky jobs along the way, but if hate what you do, only you can make the change - even with incredible responsibilities. That's the point I was responding to.

I believe that anybody with determination and drive can accomplish great things. I know many people that don't have college degrees that have started successful companies and have done very well for themselves.

As for Carson, he's making a change from a pride and self worth standpoint which is more respectable than staying in a situation that you don't believe in.
Since you're guessing, I haven't lived with my parents for 20+ years.
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I am not going to pass judgement on CP until he confirms that he is leaving and why he is leaving.

I remember not too many weeks ago a lot of people on here were sure that Marvin was going to bail out. They could tell from his on field demeanor. He was going to Pitt, etc.
Never happened though.

Maybe CP wants things and cheap Mike hasnt played along yet. Maybe he wants the practice bubble. Maybe a batter Oline. Maybe Mike has promised those things or others and hasn't delivered.

Maybe he really wants out. Maybe he has a bitchy, nagging wife who makes his life miserable. My ex-wife nagged so much I would give back shit I dint even steal...lol.

Maybe he slept with the nanny or the pool boy and its move or divorce. Maybe he is just a whiny bitch.

Point is we really don't know any thing for sure. But CP has been a good dude for the Bengals. I think he at least deserves for the true facts to come out before we start throwing trash in his yard again.
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[quote name='Fulcher_33' timestamp='1297293617' post='969451']
You do realize that most families are 1 to 2 paychecks from being on the street? And I'm talking middle class families. MULLY
[/quote]


Just maybe folks should live within their means.

I work with guys with much larger homes, more expensive cars and have lots of toys. None of their things are really any better than mine and we are all the same income range.

Guess who is going to retire first !!!!
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I'm just going to play devils advocate here real quick.

Let's say, and this is what I have felt all along, that Carson Palmer is threatening to retire to get things done in Cincinnati. Let's say it was an ultimatum, trade me or I'll retire OR do these things I want and I will stay. Because, of course, Carson would never say that publicly.

So then lets say his list included: 1) Getting an offensive coordinator, 2) Getting rid of attitudes and egos and surrounding him with the right type of players, and 3) Start rolling on an indoor practice facility.

Now lets continue go through this. He got his offensive coordinator. We can all assume SOMEONE has talked to Carson about Jay Gruden, possibly Jay Gruden himself, about the possibilities of Carson coming back now that he is there. Naturally that is not going to make it to the media because if Jay says he's talking to Carson, he has to say what is said. If he says Carson is still not coming back, he looks like an asshole. If he says he is coming back, then Mike Brown stops there with the things Carson wants done.

SOOOO .... in order to get to his next thing he wants done with the tyrant that runs our ship, he not only lets a realtor says that he is gone to the media, but he tells him to. He certainly doesn't look serious about leaving if his house isn't for sale, right?

It's a big game of poker played through the media.

I could be wrong, but it's something to consider ...
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[quote name='Hackettj22' timestamp='1297302257' post='969486']
I'm just going to play devils advocate here real quick.

Let's say, and this is what I have felt all along, that Carson Palmer is threatening to retire to get things done in Cincinnati. Let's say it was an ultimatum, trade me or I'll retire OR do these things I want and I will stay. Because, of course, Carson would never say that publicly.

So then lets say his list included: 1) Getting an offensive coordinator, 2) Getting rid of attitudes and egos and surrounding him with the right type of players, and 3) Start rolling on an indoor practice facility.

Now lets continue go through this. He got his offensive coordinator. We can all assume SOMEONE has talked to Carson about Jay Gruden, possibly Jay Gruden himself, about the possibilities of Carson coming back now that he is there. Naturally that is not going to make it to the media because if Jay says he's talking to Carson, he has to say what is said. If he says Carson is still not coming back, he looks like an asshole. If he says he is coming back, then Mike Brown stops there with the things Carson wants done.

SOOOO .... in order to get to his next thing he wants done with the tyrant that runs our ship, he not only lets a realtor says that he is gone to the media, but he tells him to. He certainly doesn't look serious about leaving if his house isn't for sale, right?

It's a big game of poker played through the media.

I could be wrong, but it's something to consider ...
[/quote]

Devil's advocate #2 says that this is not even Carson doing the talking. David Dunn is driving this to get Carson a chance to reunite with Pete Caroll in Seattle or maybe another person Dunn represents in the San Fran area...
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[quote name='Inigo Montoya' timestamp='1297281212' post='969353']
I'm on board with LeFevour as the next QB if Palmer does indeed call it quits. He definitely has mobility. He rushed for almost 3,000 yards and 47 touchdowns in his college career. He had one 1,000 rushing yard season, finishing with 1,122 as a sophomore in 2007 to go along with 19 rushing TDs. Granted, he played in a spread offense in the MAC, but the guy is an athlete with legitimate size (6-3, 230). He doesn't possess a cannon, but his accuracy is underrated (66% for his career, 3:1 TD to INT ratio). He got plenty of experience and intangibles plus he's a proven winner (4-year starter in college, 2-time team captain, 4-time Academic All-American, 36-15 career record). I'm not saying it's ideal circumstances, but I think LeFevour is worth giving the opportunity.
[/quote]


let's face it...palmer doesn't possess a cannon anymore, either.
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[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1297297570' post='969470']
Since the owners have no obligation to honor the contracts in pro football why must the players be held to a different standard? If he retires, he retires. If Mike Brown released him he wouldn't get a dime. Whats the difference?
[/quote]
The direction in which the money travels makes the difference. It's the basis of employment in a capitalist society. Those with the power to employ hold all the cards. Think of an NFL contract as a non-compete clause in a normal working relationship.

The team is structured based on him being here. He was paid a large sum of money up front to be here. We haven't seriously drafted anyone to replace him because he is supposed to be here. He is roughly 10% of the payroll. He has more value than any other player on the roster. He is trying to force probably the cheapest owner in the NFL to forget all that and treat him like any other player. Sorry, but to an NFL franchise whose negatives generally outweigh their positives there is a difference.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297294338' post='969457']
no kidding.


The rich and famous certainly should expect some level of intrusiveness (not that its right), but its sickening how loose the right to privacy has become.

Paparrazzi are about the lowest scum on the earth, and it should be legal to have restraining orders against them.


Obviously these aren't paparrazzi, but If I were Carson I'd file trespassing charges against the station.
[/quote]
It's no wonder that Shaelyn wants out of Ohio, not to mention it seems like she is one of the driving forces in the division. People throwing trash on their lawn, people coming up and looking through the windows. I mean with them having three young kids, looking out the window to see a stranger like that could be a pretty dramatizing event.

People need to get a grip.

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1297298442' post='969476']
I don't agree with that. He had a pretty damn good 2006 after the knee injury, the offensive line and running game collapsed in 2007 (while Palmer threw the ball a shit ton...I believe both Chad and TJ had 1,000 yards apiece or something similar...but it didn't translate into enough wins...and the defense was horribly injured that season), 2008 his elbow got injured (which I think had more lingering effects than the knee injury ever did), 2009...
[/quote]
I think Carson started to unravel in 2007 for whatever reason. Even before the arm injury he wasn't playing very well.


Just some more food for thought in all of this, In the thread that was posted earlier, it was mentioned that Jordan Palmer posts on Bengals.com and he mentioned that things could have been reconcilable until Mike went public with Carson's demand.
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[quote name='Fulcher_33' timestamp='1297212458' post='969175']
David Fulcher, Pete Johnson, James Brooks, Ickey Woods, and, no matter who wants to dispute it, Kenny Anderson and Boomer Esiason got us to the big show. Until Carson does that he's just another player with a lot of potential.
MULLY
[/quote]
He could not hold Kenny Anderson's jock. How about Mike Reid!! Isaac Curtis..and the best O Lineman of all time Anthony Munoz!! Not even close..
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[quote name='Harley' timestamp='1297290382' post='969427']
What a fucking shitty way to live...

If you're in a bad situation, man up, and make a change. I'm not saying it's easy, but the thought of going to work at place year after year that you hate, is your own fault. There are always options, you just have to be willing to work hard to make changes.

You only get one life... make the best of it.

As for Carson, he only gets one pro football career. He's being a man and making a change. He's not saying fuck you to his former teammates. They understand more than we do. The easier road would have been to stay in Cincy and collect a paycheck. That doesn't help anyone.
[/quote]

maybe it was a good job, pay wise, that allowed him to provide the best income he could for his family. maybe he had no chance to acquire the education that was possibly provided for you, therefore it limited his options. without you knowing all the circumstances, you probably shouldn't be looking down your nose and passing judgement on this man. quite likely, he did "man up"...probably more than you'll ever know.... and certainly a lot more than carson palmer ever "manned up".
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[b][url="http://twitter.com/artrellhawkins"][color="#0a0501"]artrellhawkins[/color][/url][/b] [url=""] [/url] Carson Palmer and Mike Brown set to get it on... old school Mexican stand-off style. Should get interesting!!
[url="http://twitter.com/artrellhawkins/status/35519777824833537"]25 minutes ago[/url] via web
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[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1297304851' post='969503']
maybe it was a good job, pay wise, that allowed him to provide the best income he could for his family. maybe he had no chance to acquire the education that was possibly provided for you, therefore it limited his options. without you knowing all the circumstances, you probably shouldn't be looking down your nose and passing judgement on this man. quite likely, he did "man up"...probably more than you'll ever know.... and certainly a lot more than carson palmer ever "manned up".
[/quote]
[b]I am a college educated individual with a degree from NYU and 25 years work experience on Wall St and I have been out of work for 20 months. I am sick of hearing Carson's BS..Find a new QB..He should kiss the ground he walks on every day and thanks God he gets paid what he does to play a kid's game. He should not have one complaint whatsoever. Mike Brown is not the best owner but he has paid Carson very very well.[/b]
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[quote name='Harley' timestamp='1297299166' post='969478']
Dude,

We've all done sucky jobs along the way, but if hate what you do, only you can make the change - even with incredible responsibilities. That's the point I was responding to.

I believe that anybody with determination and drive can accomplish great things. I know many people that don't have college degrees that have started successful companies and have done very well for themselves.

As for Carson, he's making a change from a pride and self worth standpoint which is more respectable than staying in a situation that you don't believe in.
Since you're guessing, I haven't lived with my parents for 20+ years.
[/quote]

Harley: how does anyone know what he believes in? He's pulling a Steve Carlton and not talking (except through his real estate agent). Surmising is just guessing at this point.

But just musing...if he thinks by getting to San Francisco or Seattle it's going to make things all sweetness and light...he might want to think again. If he believes that fans are going to be any different anywhere else, he is truly delusional. They will be just as abusive in Phoenix as they are in Denver. He isn't going to escape that.

I remember hearing stories about fan drive-by's in Voorhees, NJ when many Phillies and Flyers players lived there. Trash on lawn? Those players should have been so lucky.
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[b]Looking back we should have dealt Chad to the Redskins a few years back. He is a cancer who has driven Carson nuts. It sort of reminds me of the Tiki Barber situation with the NYG..Once he retired and Jeremy Shockey got injured Eli was a much better, more relaxed QB. I remeber a quote from David Pollack a few years back. He said the Chad complains on every play. He needs to be gone and should have been years ago. BUT I do not think that Carson should be asking for a trade at all. I have listened to Jim Miller on Sirius satellite Radio speak at length about Carson and he said his footwork is an absolute mess. His decision making poor also. Jim Miller knows a thing or two about the QB position in the NFL. This cannot be all blamed on the offensive line or on the WR's. He is defitely part of the problem. I am also sick about hearing of his injuries. There have been many QB's who have come back from the knee injury he had( Brady and Trent Green to name two). I am frustrated by all of this as Carson was one of my favorite all time Bengals. I have stuck up for him many times before but I really feel we should trade him as long as we get at least a 1st and 2nd rounder in return. I hope we improve our O Line and beef up the D and also somehow grab Cam Newton. He will infuse some excitement into the franchise. [/b]
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