Jump to content

Senate Bill 5 - Thoughts?


Bengals1181

Recommended Posts

I dont know what the situation in Ohio is but in Wisconson, it's purely about busting the union, not about the budget, the unions have agreed to the budget demands in return for the promise that they will remove the language about ending their rights to collectivly bargin.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116530348.html?sort=most+thumbs+up

[quote]Public employees agree to Walker financial demands, Erpenbach says

Madison - State Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D-Middleton) issued a statement on Saturday saying that he had been told that all state and local public employees, including teachers, have agreed to the financial aspects of Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair bill.

"This includes Walker's requested concession on public employee health care and pension," Erpenbach's statement said. "In return, they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed. This will solve the budget challenge."

Christina Brey, a spokeswoman for the Wisconsin Education Association Council, confirmed that her organization of state teachers had agreed to the financial aspects of Walker's request.

Erpenbach's statement could not be immediately verified. Moreover, there has been no word from Walker's office whether the governor has heard of the claim.[/quote]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1298225288' post='971798']
I dont know what the situation in Ohio is but in Wisconson, it's purely about busting the union, not about the budget, the unions have agreed to the budget demands in return for the promise that they will remove the language about ending their rights to collectivly bargin.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116530348.html?sort=most+thumbs+up
[/quote]


in Ohio, its not so much about the budget, at least not this year. From what I listened to last night, the state budget is in good shape for the next year or so, but the people pushing the bill claim there's going to be a huge deficit in two years. Gov. Kasich's a big supporter of the bill and is considering putting elements into his 2011 budget in March.


I would really hope there's nothing to this, but when Kasich won in November, he jokingly said that he was going to get even with the unions for siding with Strickland.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Our combative new governor has said that if he doesn’t like the final version of SB 5, he’ll get what he wants through the budget bill, including adding provisions to “punish” state workers who strike. [/quote]



http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/02/20/editorial-roundup-on-collective-bargainingmend-it-dont-end-it/
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny how in Wisconsin, the Gov is saying they need to do this because of the financial situation the state is in. What he doesn't tell you is that he offered corporations generous tax breaks equal to the amounts he wants the teachers to give back.

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/20/ravitch.teachers.blamed/index.html?iref=NS1"]Why Americas Teachers are Enraged[/url]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a school teacher in florida and am facing the same shit. To change the retirement rules and pensions on many folks (not including me...I'm not even close to retiring) is almost criminal. How can you change the rules of the game this late into it?

Our governor Scott (who unveiled his budget at Tea Party rally) is out to do pretty much the same thing. Large corporate tax beaks while balancing the budget on the backs of teachers, firefighters, and police. Is there waste in those sectors...sure (like in all industries) but not enough to satisfy these folks who believe every government employee is living large and fat on high salaries and government pension.

He even turned down 2.4 billion in federal money for high-speed rail without consulting the legislature (which is republican led). Somehow he's managed to piss off BOTH republicans and democrats in florida.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1297815169' post='970753']
so like every other job ever, then?
[/quote]
yeah...every other job where you accept that you'll never get the salary you deserve given the degrees and training you have, in exchange for some security in the future.

All the other jobs like that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There seems to be a lot of....we have to balance the budget...you have to sacrifice to do it but dont touch my stuff....

to be honest i wanted to get out of ohio before..its just too cold....this just adds to it....plus you can add in the fact tthat the current school funding is unconstitutional....the house of cards may fall soon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='jza10304' timestamp='1298294898' post='971905']
Is there waste in those sectors...sure (like in all industries) but not enough to satisfy these folks who believe every government employee is living large and fat on high salaries and government pension.
[/quote]

The people that think teachers, policemen and firemen are living large on the publics' dime are the same people that think "freeloaders" are living the good life too lazy work and just out to screw real hard-working Americans. It is what they tell themselves to justify cutting government programs in order to lower their taxes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1298298319' post='971917']
The people that think teachers, policemen and firemen are living large on the publics' dime are the same people that think "freeloaders" are living the good life too lazy work and just out to screw real hard-working Americans. It is what they tell themselves to justify cutting government programs in order to lower their taxes.
[/quote]

and get bigger tvs, cars aand houses. there is something fundamrntslly wrong with a me first country
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1298298319' post='971917']
The people that think teachers, policemen and firemen are living large on the publics' dime are the same people that think "freeloaders" are living the good life too lazy work and just out to screw real hard-working Americans. It is what they tell themselves to justify cutting government programs in order to lower their taxes.
[/quote]


This.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its this simple for me.

Tea baggers are hypocrites.

They rally about Liberty, but when it comes to ensuring our teachers are taken care of so that we can ensure the electorate is well educated they choose screw them.

If they truly believed in Liberty and not just about paying little to no taxes at all (the individual tax rate is lower than it was when Reagan was in office) then they would be reminded what Jefferson said about having a well educated electorate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1298300177' post='971924']
Its this simple for me.

Tea baggers are hypocrites.

They rally about Liberty, but when it comes to ensuring our teachers are taken care of so that we can ensure the electorate is well educated they choose screw them.

If they truly believed in Liberty and not just about paying little to no taxes at all (the individual tax rate is lower than it was when Reagan was in office) then they would be reminded what Jefferson said about having a well educated electorate.
[/quote]

Exactly right.

They are patriotic when it comes to fighting othrt countries..then we all need to stand together....united we stand....when it comes to educating a black kid from the inner city they suddenly are not so united....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pray for the day that a party gets the stones to get up and admit what we really need to do. If this nation is ever going to get out of debt, there will be cuts, and there will be tax hikes, and nobody is going to like them, but they will be as prudent as possible. This is not prudent... This is idiocy. Undermining our educational system will have no effect except to ensure the advent of idiocracy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='jza10304' timestamp='1298295081' post='971906']
yeah...every other job where you accept that you'll never get the salary you deserve given the degrees and training you have, in exchange for some security in the future.

All the other jobs like that.
[/quote]


I think the point he's trying to make is that they are now coming after the public sector to fuck them like they've been fucking the private sector for years. The private sector's fiscal sphincter is so stretched out they need new ways to syphon funds to their corporate masters.

I hope the people in WI and OH rise up, put together a recall election, and vote each and everyone of these simpletons out of office. That or burn their respective capital buildings down.

Whatever gets the point across...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1298308880' post='971948']
I pray for the day that a party gets the stones to get up and admit what we really need to do. If this nation is ever going to get out of debt, there will be cuts, and there will be tax hikes, and nobody is going to like them, but they will be as prudent as possible. This is not prudent... This is idiocy. Undermining our educational system will have no effect except to ensure the advent of idiocracy.
[/quote]


Doing the right thing is usually painful, sadly I'm just not optimistic it will happen here before we experience full-on economic collapse...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1298309000' post='971949']
I think the point he's trying to make is that they are now coming after the public sector to fuck them like they've been fucking the private sector for years. The private sector's fiscal sphincter is so stretched out they need new ways to syphon funds to their corporate masters.

I hope the people in WI and OH rise up, put together a recall election, and vote each and everyone of these simpletons out of office. That or burn their respective capital buildings down.

Whatever gets the point across...
[/quote]

Just another step towards what I fear will be an eventual violent uprising in this country....


Like the Health Care Bill(monstrosity) this is another example of what can happen when one party takes control with it's power unchecked....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1298310705' post='971958']
Just another step towards what I fear will be an eventual violent uprising in this country....


Like the Health Care Bill(monstrosity) this is another example of what can happen [b]when one party takes control with it's power unchecked....[/b]
[/quote]

That's not the problem though. The problem is that both parties are ONE party, controlled by the same corporate overlords.

And a violent uprising is probably the only thing that will exact any type of real change...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1298311178' post='971960']
[color="#FF0000"]That's not the problem though. The problem is that both parties are ONE party, controlled by the same corporate overlords.[/color]

And a violent uprising is probably the only thing that will exact any type of real change...
[/quote]


Pretty much
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1298309000' post='971949']
[b]I think the point he's trying to make is that they are now coming after the public sector to fuck them like they've been fucking the private sector for years. The private sector's fiscal sphincter is so stretched out they need new ways to syphon funds to their corporate masters. [/b]

I hope the people in WI and OH rise up, put together a recall election, and vote each and everyone of these simpletons out of office. That or burn their respective capital buildings down.

Whatever gets the point across...
[/quote]
It's not so much the same screwing the private sector has gotten. I for one would gladly contribute to my own retirement and don't really agree in how some of the "tenure"-like systems are in place, but don't effectively cut my salary as well. For years public sector workers knowingly earned less than private sector counterparts as a trade off for job security and the benefit plans. If they are not going to offer me and others those same benefits then our salaries (which have been frozen for the past four years in Florida) should be competitive. Effectively, in Florida at least, there has been an attack on the public school system that began with Gov. Jeb Bush and is now being seized upon by the current political climate.

If you think the situation is bad in the great state of O-H-I-O you should check out Flori-duh. In my county we're facing the same cuts on pensions and benefits (a hike in our healthcare costs), but also Miami-Dade county is proposing a 5% reduction in wages or the threat of eliminating 2,000 teaching positions. So far Rick Scott's "job-creation" plan has consisted of firing public employees, $2.1 billion in tax cuts, and turning down $2.4 in federal money (and about 12,000-24,000 or so jobs) for construction of high-speed rail.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='jza10304' timestamp='1298347942' post='972039']
It's not so much the same screwing the private sector has gotten. I for one would gladly contribute to my own retirement and don't really agree in how some of the "tenure"-like systems are in place, but don't effectively cut my salary as well. For years public sector workers knowingly earned less than private sector counterparts as a trade off for job security and the benefit plans. If they are not going to offer me and others those same benefits then our salaries (which have been frozen for the past four years in Florida) should be competitive. Effectively, in Florida at least, there has been an attack on the public school system that began with Gov. Jeb Bush and is now being seized upon by the current political climate.

If you think the situation is bad in the great state of O-H-I-O you should check out Flori-duh. In my county we're facing the same cuts on pensions and benefits (a hike in our healthcare costs), but also Miami-Dade county is proposing a 5% reduction in wages or the threat of eliminating 2,000 teaching positions. So far Rick Scott's "job-creation" plan has consisted of firing public employees, $2.1 billion in tax cuts, and turning down $2.4 in federal money (and about 12,000-24,000 or so jobs) for construction of high-speed rail.
[/quote]

Oh hell, I live in Nevada which scores lower than Mississippi in education for fucks sake, and they haven't even gone after the unions here (yet). Glad I don't have kids.

Bottom line, teachers in this country get fucked from every direction, which is the main reason why I ditched trying to get the education degree though I do fully support teachers and the level of shit they have to put up with...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1298350538' post='972044']
Oh hell, I live in Nevada which scores lower than Mississippi in education for fucks sake, and they haven't even gone after the unions here (yet). Glad I don't have kids.

Bottom line, teachers in this country get fucked from every direction, which is the main reason why I ditched trying to get the education degree though I do fully support teachers and the level of shit they have to put up with...
[/quote]
Good for you! I'm not being sarcastic...i try and talk these kids out of getting an education degree for their own good. I'm not an ed major either...i have econ, pol.sci, and history...went back and got certified. I still feel bad for the two years of graduating classes worth of ed majors who have yet to find a job because of the hiring freeze (did I not mention that...). It's bad all around, but this idea that teachers and firefighters haven't felt the recession and are immune is ridiculous.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those that dont learn from history...

http://cjonline.com/stories/082606/opi_levins.shtml

[quote][size="5"]It was unions that built the middle class[/size]
Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006
By By Richard A. Levins
MinutemanMedia.org
As Labor Day approaches, it's time for an honest assessment of where working people are. Wages, even for college graduates, are falling behind inflation. The number of families in poverty is growing. The middle-class debt load is off the charts and the personal savings rate is below zero. The costs of a college education, of health insurance, of energy for heating and driving, and of pharmaceuticals grow out of reach for more Americans with each passing day.

What economists call the "income distribution" is, from a middle class perspective, as bad as it has been since the Great Depression. During the Roaring '20s, the split between rich and poor grew exceptionally large, leaving relatively few in the middle class. In the decades following the Depression, things began to change for the better as income and wealth became more evenly distributed. But now we are back to where we were as the nation stood on the brink of its greatest economic catastrophe ever. The very rich are richer than ever, but the rest of us are falling behind at an increasingly rapid pace.

The history of labor unions in America helps tell the story of why we are losing the middle class. Private-sector unionization was legislated during the Depression. Union membership grew into the mid-20th century, then began a slow decline that continues today. Remember the income distribution numbers: a weak middle class in the Depression, a strong middle class in the decades following, and a weakening middle class now. The way these numbers generally track those for union activity is no coincidence.

Unions equalize power in the market place between those who work and those who own something. Those who work are the stuff of which the middle class is made. Those who own fill the ranks of the very wealthy. When the balance of power is with labor unions, the gains from production stay with the middle class. When the balance shifts as it has today, the very wealthy take an ever-larger share from economic activity.

As the very wealthy become even more so, they do not spend money in the way middle-class people do. After all, how many houses and cars, no matter how fine, can one have? Once people have more money than they can possibly spend on goods and services, they no longer use it in ways that stimulate the economy. Instead, they use the power their money brings to get more tax breaks, less regulation, more support for globalization, and policies that favor capital over labor. The middle class continues to weaken.

In spite of all this, we are told not to worry, because the United States is becoming what some politicians call an "ownership society." Instead of supporting unions that bring decent wages to working people, we are advised to buy shares in the corporations that profit when wages are falling. Meanwhile, we ignore the most important aspect of our economy -- that we are a great market for goods and services.

The trouble with all strategies that trade good jobs for cheap toasters is that they eventually erode that very market for the goods and services. A handful of hyper-wealthy individuals, along with millions of people living on the economic edge, are not the sound, stable market needed for growth. Only the middle class, with buying power widely distributed, can provide that. And that is what we are losing today.

This Labor Day, let's remember that rebalancing power in the economy is essential if the middle class is to thrive. Doing this, however, will require more than our government alone reasonably can be expected to deliver. We must act together in the marketplace as well. The way to do that is the way we have always done it -- to join and support the unions that built the middle class in the first place.

Richard A. Levins is a senior fellow at the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy -- www.iatp.org. He is a professor emeritus of Applied Economics at the University of Minnesota. His most recent book, "Middle Class * Union Made" is available from Itasca Books at www.itascabooks.com.[/quote]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Heads of private sector labor unions held a noontime press conference to show their solidarity with the public employee unions, and universally labeled Senate Bill 5 as evidence of a coordinated national attack by Republicans on labor unions, which overwhelmingly support Democratic candidates.

"This is a vendetta and it's starting with the public employees," said Dennis Duffey, executive director of the Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council.

"This piece of legislation is mean-spirited and it's about the elimination of the middle class, not just in Ohio but in the country," said Dave Caldwell, assistant director of District 1 of the United Steel Workers.

"It's the first step in a long line of things they want to do toward the elimination of the middle class."

Tim Burga, president of the Ohio AFL-CIO said, "Senate Bill 5 is a misguided approach that will have a ripple effect throughout the work force, driving down wages, workers rights and benefits for all workers and their families."

[/quote]


http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/22/statehouse-protest-collective-bargaining.html
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...