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Senate Bill 5 - Thoughts?


Bengals1181

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the people voted for it have to know they have no chance of getting re-elected.


There was overwhelming support, regardless of party affiliation, against the bill and many of them voted for it anyway.

You'd think that important things such as this would be required to be on a ballot, or better yet actually require congressmen to vote the way their constituents want them to.


That's the biggest issue with government. congressmen vote the way THEY want to, not what the people the way the people they represent want.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1299119138' post='974595']
the people voted for it have to know they have no chance of getting re-elected.


There was overwhelming support, regardless of party affiliation, against the bill and many of them voted for it anyway.

You'd think that important things such as this would be required to be on a ballot, or better yet actually require congressmen to vote the way their constituents want them to.


That's the biggest issue with government. [b]congressmen vote the way THEY want to[/b], not what the people the way the people they represent want.
[/quote]


I think the bigger problem is that this can be obvious to anyone willing to take the time to examine a candidates voting record and/or the interests of the groups contributing to the campaign (both of which are available though it will be much more difficult to determine what these "astro-turf" groups actually stand for going forward). How many people actually take that time vs how many vote down party lines or even worse, how many are swayed to vote one way or another by a 30sec TV ad?

I read that they also managed to [url="http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/03/ohio-union-gay-couples/"]re-ban gay marriage[/url] in the bill as well. One ban wasn't enough, they had to make double sure those fags are not entitled to...anything, apparently.
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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cx77K8e3WE&feature=player_embedded#at=666[/media]

If people don't think this has the capacity to turn violent in a heartbeat, then they are blind...


Keep taking from the have's and creating more have nots and we will have violent revolution in this country....ala egypt.
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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1299174029' post='974746']
I read that they also managed to [url="http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/03/ohio-union-gay-couples/"]re-ban gay marriage[/url] in the bill as well. One ban wasn't enough, they had to make double sure those fags are not entitled to...anything, apparently.
[/quote]


yea I was just reading that a couple of seconds ago. So if the gay marriage ban gets repealled, they'll still have this povision (in SB5) to uphold the ban.

glad to see this bill was so much about the budget.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299178366' post='974768']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cx77K8e3WE&feature=player_embedded#at=666[/media]

[color="#FF0000"]If people don't think this has the capacity to turn violent in a heartbeat, then they are blind...[/color]


Keep taking from the have's and creating more have nots and we will have violent revolution in this country....ala egypt.
[/quote]


One just has to look at the last uprise in labor and how it was violent too.

Ive been saying for a while now that we are repeating history re: the depression and post depression. The problem is we are not answering it like FDR did.

Oh and I agree if the growing income gap and gradual elimination of the middle class continues we will end up in a civil war.
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[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy"]http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy[/url]
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[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1299282935' post='975191']
[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy"]http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy[/url]
[/quote]

Just unbelievable....
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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299214459' post='975012']
‎"If any man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar." - Abraham Lincoln
[/quote]

Just for contribution: Carl Sandburg did not believe Lincoln ever made this quote. Lincoln did, however, have this in an address to Congress in 1861:

[i]"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.''[/i]
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[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1299282935' post='975191']
[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy"]http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street?xrs=share_copy[/url]
[/quote]


Loved this quote in the comments section of the above.

[quote]"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." --Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980[/quote]
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what a shocker.

The GOP of the House has replaced two members of the Commerce and Labor Committee that planned to vote down Senate Bill 5 in Ohio with two members who would vote yes.


Further, freshman delegates have been told that if they don't vote yes on the bill, that they won't have the backing of the Republican Party when it comes time for re-election.



[quote]The Republicans have had to replace nearly a third of their membership on the committee on the first day of hearings just to keep the bill alive.[/quote]

http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/03/0...sage/#comments




This has gotten beyond ridiculous and corrupt.
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[quote]SYNDICATED COLUMN: Unions? What Unions?
March 8th, 2011

Labor Leaders to Blame for Workers’ Weakness

I will never understand why the people who are jealous of unionized workers who earn $50,000 a year give a pass to the incompetent bank executives who get $5,000,000. Resentment is a terrible thing to waste.

Given how terribly companies have treated workers in recent years—mass layoffs, outsourcing, stagnant wages, piling on the work, while they pay their executives seven-figure salaries—you’d think Americans would be more receptive to unions. But organized labor’s bad rep isn’t surprising. A half-century of smears by big business and their media allies and sleazy laws passed by corrupt anti-worker politicians (c.f. the Taft-Hartley Act) have established today’s image of organized labor as corrupt, selfish and marginal.

As if that propaganda colossus wasn’t enough to contend with, labor unions have responded to these attacks with a series of poorly thought-out strategies that fed into that narrative.

As a result fewer than seven percent of private-sector workers belong to a union. And the last union stronghold, public-sector employees (36 percent represented), is under siege by Republicans in states like Wisconsin and Ohio.

Where did union leaders mess up? They made so many bone-headed decisions that it’s hard to know where to start.

During the 1980s unions forgot what they were and who they represented. They abandoned their traditional oppositionalism to management on the ground that their fates were interlinked: if the plant closed, union members would lose their jobs. Embracing schemes like “quality circles” and the “team concept,” in which workers and shop stewards worked side-by-side with bosses, unions increased efficiency at their own expense, essentially crossing their own non-existing picket lines. Unions took seats on the boards of companies they were supposed to be pressuring for higher wages and benefits.

The results of hobnobbing with corporate executives were predictable: givebacks and concessions to companies so they can pay their executives more and more. In 2009, for example, the United Auto Workers agreed to freeze their salaries to help save the big three Detroit automakers. They also slashed employee benefits, including healthcare.

Did the Big Three use those savings to invest in new plants? Hell no. They continued to outsource jobs overseas. Meanwhile, as UAW members got laid off and struggled through pay freezes, Ford gave president and CEO Alan Mulally a raise in his stratospheric annual salary, to $17.9 million. GM forked over $9 million to CEO Daniel Akerson. Despite having no apparent God-like superpowers—at this pay scale the dude ought to be able to shoot flames out of his mouth—Chysler-Fiat felt it appropriate to pay $7.7 million to its CEO, Sergio Marchionne.

This “please let me sit at the jocks’ table” mentality persists. UAW President Bob King said in January that seats on the boards of each of the big three Detroit automakers are at the top of his wish list. Memo from reality: you don’t hang out with your enemy. You fight them.

What is the point of a union that sells out its members?

The byword of American labor is “solidarity.” Considering that employers have the media and government on their side, sticking together is the only way to win.

Yet all too often unions under siege during the 1980s and 1990s did the opposite. They created two classes of workers—old and grandfathered-in, versus the young and screwed. In return for protecting wages and benefits for their existing (older) membership, unions such as the International Longshoremen’s Association agreed to a drastically lower tier of wages for new hires. By looking out for their narrow short-term interests, the ILA confirmed the perception that they were less interested in workers rights than self-preservation. Ironically it mortgaged its future in the process.

John Sweeney, president of the AFL-CIO from 1995 to 2009, spearheaded a drive to organize women, minorities and low-paid workers. Though laudable, the new emphasis neglected labor’s traditional base, white males, who also happen to be politically influential “Reagan Democrats,” a.k.a. swing voters. These “angry white males” became today’s right-wing Tea Party.

Big labor’s abusive love affair with the Democratic Party has been bafflingly counterproductive. I don’t have a problem with the “forced” collection of union dues; it’s fair to require everyone who benefits from higher wages and benefits to support the union that makes them possible. But it’s ridiculous to use those dues to support one political party—the Democrats. Between 1990 and 2008 unions made more than $667 million in political campaign contributions, 92 percent to Dems.

Which might be justifiable, if unions got anything in return. NAFTA, GATT and WTO (signed by Clinton and continued by Obama) gutted American manufacturing jobs. The 2009-10 Democratic majority Congress ignored labor’s top priority, the Employee Free Choice Act. Neither Clinton nor Obama even considered repealing Taft-Hartley, which bans wildcat strikes, solidarity strikes, secondary boycotts, union shops and allows courts to break strikes arbitrarily.

A still bigger mistake has been labor’s inexplicable refusal to go after the ersatz “while collar” workplaces.

“There’s something new in the air,” UC Berkeley professor Harley Shaiken, who studies labor issues, told Reuters. “There is a sense that white-collar workers have become the blue-collar workers of the 21st century in terms of job security, wages and benefits. That’s certainly how they’re treated. And if you’re treated like a blue-collar worker, you may respond like a blue-collar worker and seek to protect benefits and maintain some job security.”

The AFL-CIO and other unions talk about organizing the white-collar ghetto. But they aren’t doing much. Few workers in the tech sector or advertising or finance or the media have ever met a union organizer. If labor had its act together, no cubicle farm in America would go a year without an attempt to unionize it.

Without the passage of a “card check” law to reduce employer retaliation, union organizing attempts might fail—but the workers who voted yes would always appreciate that they were trying to help them live better lives.

Labor is on the ropes. With the economy getting worse, however, there has never been a greater need for union leaders to get smarter and more militant—or a better opportunity to reverse their long slide.

(Ted Rall is the author of “The Anti-American Manifesto.” His website is tedrall.com.)

COPYRIGHT 2011 TED RALL[/quote]
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Republicons passed the bill in Wisconsin.

They will ruin this country long before anything else. It's quite obvious they care about no one except the very rich.

Keep taking from the have nots and giving it to the have everythings and it will start to get ugly.

When you push people far enough into a corner they will fight back, violently.

One more step toward armed revolution I suppose.

If I was that corrupt conman walker I would be EXTREMELY cautious while out in public now. Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone took a shot at him after this.
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[quote name='BengalRep85-9' timestamp='1299725058' post='976254']
Republicons passed the bill in Wisconsin.

They will ruin this country long before anything else. It's quite obvious they care about no one except the very rich.

Keep taking from the have nots and giving it to the have everythings and it will start to get ugly.

When you push people far enough into a corner they will fight back, violently.

One more step toward armed revolution I suppose.

If I was that corrupt conman walker I would be EXTREMELY cautious while out in public now. Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone took a shot at him after this.
[/quote]


What disheartens me is the people their policies effect far too often defend them in the name of "capitialism" (as if this is anything remotely resembeling it.)
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I'm just going to say one thing.

It is hard to watch my 50 year old father limp around, suffer from a hernia, his knee is busted, two shoulder surgeries, messed up back, and hands that suffer from numbness all related to 17 years as a diesel mechanic for a public transportation company, and the last 5 years maintaining the companies hubs, shops, HVAC systems, snow removal, construction, etc. etc.

He has 8 years left. He has been counting on his guaranteed retirement for the last 22 years. Had he known that the agreements they made over the years were going to be thrown out, he likely would have joined the public sector and used his skilled labor for a higher paying job, or maybe went to school to earn an engineering degree.

My mother has 19 years working in the public sector, at the same company, and while her job isn't as physically demanding, she has busted her tail knowing that her retirement days would be relatively comfortable.

Seeing him, and knowing what he has sacrificed for his job, is more than enough for me to be against senate bill 5.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299811375' post='976540']
I think what pisses me off the most about this bill is that you governer was partly responsible for the state's economic woes selling the bad investments he sold to it and now wants to use the unions to pay for his mistakes.
[/quote]

Exactly!
This and the multitudes of people that refuse to see this for what it is!
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[quote name='BengalsOwn' timestamp='1299808183' post='976528']
I'm just going to say one thing.

It is hard to watch my 50 year old father limp around, suffer from a hernia, his knee is busted, two shoulder surgeries, messed up back, and hands that suffer from numbness all related to 17 years as a diesel mechanic for a public transportation company, and the last 5 years maintaining the companies hubs, shops, HVAC systems, snow removal, construction, etc. etc.

He has 8 years left. He has been counting on his guaranteed retirement for the last 22 years. Had he known that the agreements they made over the years were going to be thrown out, he likely would have joined the public sector and used his skilled labor for a higher paying job, or maybe went to school to earn an engineering degree.

My mother has 19 years working in the public sector, at the same company, and while her job isn't as physically demanding, she has busted her tail knowing that her retirement days would be relatively comfortable.

Seeing him, and knowing what he has sacrificed for his job, is more than enough for me to be against senate bill 5.
[/quote]

There are a few options here.

1. put up with it
2. don't vote for these anti-government clowns in the first place (yeah, too late for that)
3. vote them out (in how many years?)
4. recall them ... taken from a page right out of the thugs' playbook
5. revolution

which is it going to be?
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