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Senate Bill 5 - Thoughts?


Bengals1181

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Kaisich fucking loves all the attention being paid to his. I do not know if he is a mad genius and planned this or just dumb luck.

[url="http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/10/31/kasich-glad-sb-5-hubbub-kept-focus-off-budget.html"]http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/10/31/kasich-glad-sb-5-hubbub-kept-focus-off-budget.html[/url]

[quote]

ZANESVILLE – Gov. John Kasich said today that the emotion and opposition generated by Senate Bill 5 and Issue 2 provided him cover to push through his reform-oriented, $55.8 billion budget.

“One really good thing that I will tell you is that as a result of a lot of the hubbub around this issue, we were able to pass our budget with a minimal amount of problems, which is fantastic because it is that budget that has set the framework for the state of Ohio to rebuild,” Kasich told reporters following a speech at a Zanesville restaurant.

Kasich was responding to a question of whether he believed many had already made up their minds about Issue 2 — the ballot measure for the limits on collective bargaining he supports in Senate Bill 5 that drew thousands of protestors to the Statehouse this year and sparked a voter referendum.

Republicans control both chambers of the General Assembly, so it’s hard to imagine that Kasich’s budget wouldn’t have cleared the Ohio House and Senate had Senate Bill 5 not been such a hot item for the public. But the collective bargaining bill that Kasich supports only passed the Senate 17-16.

So perhaps, at the very least, there might have been more legislative arm-twisting needed to pick up the amount of Republican votes the budget received had Democrats and special interests not been tied up with Senate Bill 5.

All 59 House Republicans and 22 of 23 Senate Republicans signed off on the final budget version that pushed through a conference committee. When asked to clarify what problems Kasich might’ve had with the budget had there been no Senate Bill 5, Kasich said, “I don’t know, I can’t say that.”

“I just know the reforms in this budget were dramatic reforms that Ohioans hadn’t seen in probably 100 years,” Kasich said. “So probably people’s focus was somewhere else. Who knows what they, well, they tried to oppose JobsOhio, they tried to oppose controlling costs inside the state, but, I think, there’s only so much energy to go around.”

The two-year state budget was indeed tweaked and changed by legislative Republicans, but few would dispute that it largely resembled the budget plan Kasich first unveiled on March 15. The final budget cut about $1.4 billion from schools and local governments, and another $340 million from nursing homes — in part to fill what the administration said was an $8 billion shortfall.

But Kasich and legislative Republicans packed so much more into the budget, including: leasing state-controlled liquor profits to fund JobsOhio; reorganizing the state’s Medicaid program; creating a tax credit for those who invest in small businesses; adding a merit-pay system for teachers tied to the federal Race to the Top program; expanding school choice programs; privatizing prisons; and eliminating the estate tax in 2013.

As Kasich said, he has faced significant pushback on JobsOhio, his privatized development agency that’s been the subject of lawsuits and threatened ethics complaints, some of which have required him to change the program. He was also the subject of a hard-hitting TV ad from the nursing home lobby that was ultimately pulled off the air, and his legislative agenda for schools (which includes allowing Teach for America into Ohio) has only stoked teachers’ ire as they fight Issue 2.

State Sen. Troy Balderson, R-Zanesville, who introduced Kasich to about 140 people at Jack Havana’s restaurant in Zanesville, said the budget would’ve passed regardless if Senate Bill 5 had been introduced or not. But he also agreed that some of the budget’s provisions would’ve drawn more ire.

“There were pension components (which were ultimately dropped), there was merit pay, there was Race to the Top (federal school funding that essentially requires a merit-pay setup by states), so there were pieces of Senate Bill 5 that were in the budget,” Balderson said.

Kasich’s speech was billed as a pro-Issue 2 event. It was held about 4 miles from where Terry Thompson released more than 50 exotic beasts, including lions, tigers, grizzly bears, other big cats, and wolves from their cages before killing himself.

Kasich recognized Muskingum County Sheriff Matthew Lutz, who was at Jack Havana’s today and whose deputies were forced to act as the animals ran free on Zanesville’s outskirts. Lutz deputies shot and killed most of the animals.

“Think about what this man faced and his team,” Kasich said during his speech. “Probably some day they’ll make a movie about it all, because it’s just a remarkable story. ... It’s fantastic what they were able to accomplish. And I know, with the loss of the animals, he wishes he didn’t have to do that, and in fact he saved some of them as best he could.

“But when you’re facing that problem, a threat to all of you, or many of you in this room and your children, they did their job.” [/quote]
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1320114199' post='1054454']
This vote is coming... Nov. 8th.

This vote is about busting Unions and taking workers rights...

A No vote is a vote for teachers, firefighters, police officer, nurses... etc...
[/quote]

Exactly!! Public Union employees did not fuck up this country, greedy bastards, using the cover of unreadable contracts, mortgages, credit cards and Trade pacts with Foreign countries FUCKED up this country. Bu let's take from the middle class guy making 50k a year, and give more money to the rich guy making 500 million a year. That makes a lot of sense. NOT!!!!
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1320244790' post='1055015']

Exactly!! Public Union employees did not fuck up this country, greedy bastards, using the cover of unreadable contracts, mortgages, credit cards and Trade pacts with Foreign countries FUCKED up this country. Bu let's take from the middle class guy making 50k a year, and give more money to the rich guy making 500 million a year. That makes a lot of sense. NOT!!!!
[/quote]


And here is why....


[img]http://minimalistpackrat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/11.jpg[/img]
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[b] Ohio Issue 2: Citizens United Launches Big Ad Buy[/b]



[b]The Huffington Post[/b] [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luke-johnson"]Luke Johnson[/url] Posted: 11/3/11 11:29 AM ET







Citizens United, a conservative nonprofit group, is launching an ad Thursday supporting Ohio's Issue 2 costing over $100,000, [url="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67483.html"]reports Politico[/url]. The [url="http://www.citizensunited.org/frequently-asked-questions.aspx"]501(c)(4) group[/url] became the source of national controversy for its role as the plaintiff in a 2010 [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html"]landmark Supreme Court decision[/url] that allowed corporations and unions to spend unlimited amounts in elections.
A "yes" vote on Issue 2 would uphold Ohio's S.B. 5 law banning public employees from being able to collectively bargain for benefits and requiring public employees to pay a certain percentage of their health and pension benefits. A "no" vote would repeal the law.
The female narrator in the ad says, "Unions need the right to bargain for wages. But we parents and educators deserve the right to run our own schools. Common sense reforms to help our children and grandchildren."
Two [url="http://solon.patch.com/articles/recent-polls-suggest-growing-opposition-to-issue-2"]recent polls[/url] show that the issue is headed for a defeat by margins of over twenty points.
Another pro-Issue 2 ad [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/collective-bargaining-ohio-issue-2-sb-5_n_1005095.html?1318350627"]drew controversy[/url] in October. An Ohio woman who said she was a strong opponent of the measure was used in an ad promoting the measure. Several television stations pulled the misleading ad.
Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) signed S.B. 5 and has been [url="http://solon.patch.com/articles/kasich-set-to-attend-issue-2-rally-in-solon"]rallying support[/url] for Issue 2. But if it loses at expected, [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/27/john-kasich-issue-2_n_1035367.html"]experts say[/url] he'll face few long-term consequences since he still has three years left in his term.
Ohioans will vote on the measure Nov. 8.
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[b] Ohio Issue 2: Election Day Robocall Instructs Voters To Go To Polls Tomorrow [UPDATE][/b]



First Posted: 11/8/11 12:01 PM ET Updated: 11/8/11 01:24 PM ET
[img]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/images/bignews/follow-arrow.png[/img]





[img]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/397945/thumbs/s-VOTING-large.jpg[/img]




WASHINGTON -- Union officials in Ohio are questioning whether proponents of an anti-labor ballot initiative are trying to trick opponents of the measure into staying away from the polls on Tuesday, pointing to a robocall message voters received on the morning of Election Day.
Ohio residents [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23/progressives-ballot-initiative-strategy_n_931816.html"]are voting Tuesday on Issue 2[/url], a ballot referendum on a controversial measure known as SB 5. The law [url="http://www.wlwt.com/r/27056220/detail.html"]restricts collective bargaining rights[/url] for state employees, among [url="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/04/ohios_senate_bill_5_will_bring.html"]other provisions[/url]. Opposition to the legislation [url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/22/948543/-Ohio-SB5-protest-pics"]inspired large protests[/url] around the state earlier in the year.
At 9:37 a.m. on Tuesday, a Service Employees International Union (SEIU) staffer in Ohio received a robocall message inaccurately telling voters the election was "tomorrow."
"Hi, I am calling to remind you that tomorrow is Election Day," said the voice on the message. "It is critically important that you go vote and protect the future of our country. Tomorrow, please go to the polls and vote YES on Issue 2, and vote YES on Issue 3. Paid for by American Future Fund and not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee. 866-559-5854."
Voting yes on Issue 2 means voting in favor of SB 5, Gov. John Kasich's anti-collective bargaining law.
[b]LISTEN:[/b]


The number on the call goes to an automated message, directing callers to the website of the American Future Fund, a conservative advocacy group. The message also asks people if they would like to be added to the group's do-not-call list.
The American Future Fund did not immediately return a request for comment, so it's unclear whether the call was simply a mistake in timing.
But one union official suspected shenanigans, saying it was unlikely the American Future Fund would make the mistake of instructing its own supporters to turn out on the wrong day, if it was truly interested in increasing turnout.
"When you set an auto-dial to dial, you know how long it will take to go through those batch of numbers," said a union official. "And if they were legitimately trying to turn out their people they would make sure they didn't get the calls today."
Anthony Caldwell, a spokesman for SEIU District 1199, said it was the union's information technology officer who received the call and noticed, curiously, that the time stamp was slightly after 9:30 am this morning. The IT official is a registered Democrat, which made the call more suspicious.
"For a group [American Future Fund] that has coordinated a million dollar mail campaign, I find it highly unlikely they would make a simple clerical error and send out a robocall to non-supporters telling them to vote the day after Election Day," said Caldwell.
Polls have pointed to an overwhelming defeat for Issue 2 and the anti-union law, but as HuffPost has reported, some caution may be in order, since [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/07/ohio-issue-2-polls-anti-union-collective-bargaining-law_n_1080547.html"]polling can be unreliable when it comes to ballot measures[/url].
[b]UPDATE: [/b]1:25 p.m. -- Mandy Fraher, a spokeswoman for American Future Fund, acknowledged that automated phone calls were being made on Tuesday telling recipients that the election was being held "tomorrow." She insisted that the mix-up was due to "gross incompetence on behalf of the phone vendor" and that the group was "working to correct that problem immediately."
"As soon as we realized the problem we stopped those calls and we started calling those people back who received a call to inform them that today is Election Day," said Fraher.
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1320783000' post='1058857']
[b] Ohio Issue 2: Election Day Robocall Instructs Voters To Go To Polls Tomorrow [UPDATE][/b]



First Posted: 11/8/11 12:01 PM ET Updated: 11/8/11 01:24 PM ET
[img]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/images/bignews/follow-arrow.png[/img]





[img]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/397945/thumbs/s-VOTING-large.jpg[/img]




WASHINGTON -- Union officials in Ohio are questioning whether proponents of an anti-labor ballot initiative are trying to trick opponents of the measure into staying away from the polls on Tuesday, pointing to a robocall message voters received on the morning of Election Day.
Ohio residents [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23/progressives-ballot-initiative-strategy_n_931816.html"]are voting Tuesday on Issue 2[/url], a ballot referendum on a controversial measure known as SB 5. The law [url="http://www.wlwt.com/r/27056220/detail.html"]restricts collective bargaining rights[/url] for state employees, among [url="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/04/ohios_senate_bill_5_will_bring.html"]other provisions[/url]. Opposition to the legislation [url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/22/948543/-Ohio-SB5-protest-pics"]inspired large protests[/url] around the state earlier in the year.
At 9:37 a.m. on Tuesday, a Service Employees International Union (SEIU) staffer in Ohio received a robocall message inaccurately telling voters the election was "tomorrow."
"Hi, I am calling to remind you that tomorrow is Election Day," said the voice on the message. "It is critically important that you go vote and protect the future of our country. Tomorrow, please go to the polls and vote YES on Issue 2, and vote YES on Issue 3. Paid for by American Future Fund and not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee. 866-559-5854."
Voting yes on Issue 2 means voting in favor of SB 5, Gov. John Kasich's anti-collective bargaining law.
[b]LISTEN:[/b]


The number on the call goes to an automated message, directing callers to the website of the American Future Fund, a conservative advocacy group. The message also asks people if they would like to be added to the group's do-not-call list.
The American Future Fund did not immediately return a request for comment, so it's unclear whether the call was simply a mistake in timing.
But one union official suspected shenanigans, saying it was unlikely the American Future Fund would make the mistake of instructing its own supporters to turn out on the wrong day, if it was truly interested in increasing turnout.
"When you set an auto-dial to dial, you know how long it will take to go through those batch of numbers," said a union official. "And if they were legitimately trying to turn out their people they would make sure they didn't get the calls today."
Anthony Caldwell, a spokesman for SEIU District 1199, said it was the union's information technology officer who received the call and noticed, curiously, that the time stamp was slightly after 9:30 am this morning. The IT official is a registered Democrat, which made the call more suspicious.
"For a group [American Future Fund] that has coordinated a million dollar mail campaign, I find it highly unlikely they would make a simple clerical error and send out a robocall to non-supporters telling them to vote the day after Election Day," said Caldwell.
Polls have pointed to an overwhelming defeat for Issue 2 and the anti-union law, but as HuffPost has reported, some caution may be in order, since [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/07/ohio-issue-2-polls-anti-union-collective-bargaining-law_n_1080547.html"]polling can be unreliable when it comes to ballot measures[/url].
[b]UPDATE: [/b]1:25 p.m. -- Mandy Fraher, a spokeswoman for American Future Fund, acknowledged that automated phone calls were being made on Tuesday telling recipients that the election was being held "tomorrow." She insisted that the mix-up was due to "gross incompetence on behalf of the phone vendor" and that the group was "working to correct that problem immediately."
"As soon as we realized the problem we stopped those calls and we started calling those people back who received a call to inform them that today is Election Day," said Fraher.
[/quote]

Hahaha! Telling people to vote Yes after the election is over....priceless.
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[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/issue-2-falls-ohio-collective-bargaining-law-repealed/2011/11/08/gIQAyZ0U3M_blog.html?hpid=z1"]http://www.washingto...og.html?hpid=z1[/url]


[quote]
[size=3][b] Issue 2 falls, Ohio collective bargaining law repealed[/b][/size]



[left][size=3]Ohioans voted Tuesday night to repeal a Republican-backed law that restricted collective bargaining for public workers, a victory for Democrats and labor organizers both nationally and in the state.[/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]AP has declared Issue 2 (as the law was called on the ballot) dead. As of this writing, with about a quarter of precincts in, repeal led by a whopping 63 to 37 percent margin.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Gov. [b]John Kasich[/b] ® took office in January <a href="http://www.toledofreepress.com/2010/12/11/kasich-union-protections-and-prison-reform-low-hanging-fruit/" style="color: black; ">vowing to curb unions’ power. But he appears to have overstepped his hand in curtailing the rights of 350,000 public workers — including firefighters and police officers — to negotiate over benefits, equipment and other issues.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The backlash against the law began as soon as Kasich signed it, in March. By August, when the governor [url="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/08/ohio_governor_aks_union_leader.html"]asked for a compromise[/url] with unions, it was too late.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]As in other states, the law became a battleground for an ongoing fight between labor and conservative groups over collective bargaining. In Wisconsin, after Gov. [b]Scott Walker[/b] ® eliminated collective bargaining for many public employees, Democrats and labor failed to take back the state Senate in recall elections. Now, unions have their first bonafide win.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]By including firefighters and police officers in the legislation, Republicans in Ohio set themselves up for a far more difficult fight. Wisconsin’s collective bargaining law made exceptions for both.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]“The governor and his legislative friends really overreached,” said [b]Lee Saunders[/b], secretary-treasurer of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. “All of labor was together on this. I think it’s a model for fights across the country.”[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Democrats also claimed victory, framing the results as a rebuke to Republican lawmakers across the country after the GOP swept statehouses across the country in 2010. Ohio Democrats were [url="http://rothenbergpoliticalreport.com/news/article/ohio-blowout-raises-red-flag-for-democrats"]brutally beaten[/url] in that election.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]“With the change in political power in many states last year, Republican governors misread voters’ intentions and used their newfound power to sharpen their ideological axes and enact partisan retribution,” said Democratic Governors Association Chairman [b]Martin O’Malley[/b]. “Ohioans—and Americans—understand that firefighters, police officers, and teachers didn’t cause this economic recession.”[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]In addition to limiting bargaining and banning strikes, the law mandates that public workers pay 15 percent of their health-care benefits and 10 percent of wages into their pensions — something that state, but not county and local workers already do.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/size][/left][left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Republicans argued that the legislation was not only fair, but necessary to balance the budget. Democrats and unions argued that it was a senseless attack on hardworking public servants.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=3][/left][/quote][/size]

[size=3][/left][/size][/left]
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[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1320807572' post='1059040']
Sb5 time of death 21:17 11/08/2011!

Now all there is to root for is a large margin of victory!
[/quote]

AMEN!! By the way, Tigers, thank you for putting your life on the line for Ohioans. Guys like you are very important to America, and I'm really proud that we Ohioans were able to inform the Governor and his friends of that EMPHATICALLY!!
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This was an odd one for me. Issue 2 was voted no by a huge margin, Issue 3 was also voted yes by a huge margin. 2 very big Republican/Democrat issues.

I knew some pretty hardcore republican/anti(private) union guys that seemed to have a brief change of heart on this. Is this like how "entitlements" are only entitlements when someone else uses them?
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[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1320855760' post='1059363']
This was an odd one for me. Issue 2 was voted no by a huge margin, Issue 3 was also voted yes by a huge margin. 2 very big Republican/Democrat issues.

I knew some pretty hardcore republican/anti(private) union guys that seemed to have a brief change of heart on this. Is this like how "entitlements" are only entitlements when someone else uses them?
[/quote]

I will cut a past for you what I put on another forum... it may sound like ire... but it is not directed at you.

[quote]This layoff talk is a crock! People are going to be laid off with or without SB5. You can't push state debt on to the local governments then raise the state budget by 5 billion when there was supposed to be an 8 billion dollar gap and expect the local governments not to lay off...

Fact of the matter is over 90% of public employees already pay 10% to pensions and at least 15 percent or more to health care. This bill was only going to save communities a minimal amount of money and not cover the gaps taken in local government funding.

This bill was about union busting and cutting the funding to anyone who could oppose the far right wing nuts!

43% more than private sector my butt!

They counted my pension twice in that number.. the amount I pay in and the benefit itself.
They assigned an arbitrary value of 10% for "job security"
They did not count social security into private sector benefits.
They counted all jobs into the average private sector from minimum wage to they guy making 500,000.. problem with that is there are far more people making minimum wage then there are the other!

SB5 time of death: 21:17 11/08/11![/quote]

Feel free to ask me any questions you have about my benefits that some term as "entitlements" and I will do my best to try and explain how they work....

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1320855092' post='1059356']

AMEN!! By the way, Tigers, thank you for putting your life on the line for Ohioans. Guys like you are very important to America, and I'm really proud that we Ohioans were able to inform the Governor and his friends of that EMPHATICALLY!!
[/quote]

Thank you.
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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1320855092' post='1059356']

AMEN!! By the way, Tigers, thank you for putting your life on the line for Ohioans. Guys like you are very important to America, and I'm really proud that we Ohioans were able to inform the Governor and his friends of that EMPHATICALLY!!
[/quote]


Now THIS I can agree with. :thumbsup:

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Hey, I voted no on Issue 2. Your Welcome!

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1320857797' post='1059383']

I will cut a past for you what I put on another forum... it may sound like ire... but it is not directed at you.



Feel free to ask me any questions you have about my benefits that some term as "entitlements" and I will do my best to try and explain how they work....



Thank you.
[/quote]
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