Jamie_B Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Matt Taibbi has done some really good investigative journalism. http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/2/22/matt_taibbi_why_isnt_wall_street_in_jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 That was a good read. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 yeah i read all i can get my hands on by Taibbi, he may be one of the one journalists that really has it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Probably because all the "regulators" are former Wall Street insiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1299490245' post='975481'] Probably because all the "regulators" are former Wall Street insiders [/quote] sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't like how journalists only blame one side of the subprime lending debacle and ignore the other. No guns were held to heads of borrowers. This whole thing was capitalism in it's purest form for you anti-regulation guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1299518116' post='975515'] I don't like how journalists only blame one side of the subprime lending debacle and ignore the other. No guns were held to heads of borrowers. This whole thing was capitalism in it's purest form for you anti-regulation guys. [/quote] Except that the interest of mortgage dealers was to make as much money off the borrowers as they could not the interest of seeing that the borrowers could afford what they were being sold, (which should be their job.) There was a good amount of predatory lending going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299519848' post='975519'] Except that the interest of mortgage dealers was to make as much money off the borrowers as they could not the interest of seeing that the borrowers could afford what they were being sold, (which should be their job.) There was a good amount of predatory lending going on. [/quote] Their job is making money, they did well. IMO, protecting the people is the government's job. Predatory lending takes two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1299520548' post='975522'] Their job is making money, they did well. IMO, protecting the people is the government's job. Predatory lending takes two sides. [/quote] Agreed, but one of the main points of the article is that the government is very handicapped in performing that function on Wall Street. The firms engaging in these toxic assets throw wads of cash at the best and brightest, and whenever a diamond in the rough surfaces at the SEC, they eventually hire him away too. In an industry where maximum profit is the one and only goal, government compensation just can't play with the big boys. Wall Street is the New York Yankees and the SEC is the Kansas City Royals. There are not many avenues to balance that disadvantage. Increasing the compensation of government officials is quite obviously not going to happen. The federal government can't cap the compensation of executives at these big-money firms without a firestorm, even when they've just been injected full of taxpayer money. The whole system needs to be renovated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 There was a very simple fix to this long before it ever got this far, but people in America don't like regulation for some reason. People like to be free to much here. They sling around words like communist and socialist to scare people away from wanting regualtion. Sois Laws (If I was in charge) 1. No mortgages allowed except 30 yr fixed. 2. Purchasers must have not exceed 30% debt/housing ratio. 3. Rental income on single family dwellings taxed at 70% (this a behavioural suggestion: I am strongly opposed to investors raising the market price on houses people can purchase for their families and actually live in them. Homes <> investment assets, IMO). 1 and 2 are simple, #3 is a little radical I'll admit, but as a financial advisor, I loathed the idea that people viewed their house through the same paradigm as they would 100 shares of GOOG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1299520548' post='975522'] Their job is making money, they did well. IMO, protecting the people is the government's job. Predatory lending takes two sides. [/quote] I agree somewhat. I warned my brother not to go with the interest-only ARM when he mentioned it (accountant here). He chose not to listen to my advice, and paid the price. Thank god he was still able to afford his house payment, tho he has had to cut back a lot everwhere else. My problem is that the mice are guarding the cheese. The old days of one trusting his banker to have his best interest at heart ala "It's a Wonderful Life" are history. Now you need to treat your banker or loan officer like you do a used car salesman (no offense to used car salesmen but you get my drift). You are completely right. The responsibility is with the government to protect us from crap like this, hence the need for MORE regulation. HOWEVER, it is also the government's responsibility to let these assholes sink when they fuck up, just like they let the borrowers sink when they do. The whole "this bank is too big to default" is crap. If they are too big to fall, then they should be restricted by a LOT of restrictions. I think you are missing what happened though. It wasn't just the bullshit mortgages to people that couldnt afford them that caused the current economic climate. It was the fact that they took these bullshit mortgages, cut them apart, and repackaged them as AAA investments to people like Kasich who sold these "investments" to the states, pension funds, foriegn governments etc. This is where the crime takes place in my opinion. They misrepresented the products they were selling to the point of fraud. The icing on the cake is this asshole Kasich (sp?) gets elected governor (seriously? wtf were you guys smoking??) then has the balls to blame teachers, police and firemen for the whole fuckup HE caused by selling the "investments" to the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1299521980' post='975525'] The icing on the cake is this asshole Kasich (sp?) gets elected governor (seriously? wtf were you guys smoking??) then has the balls to blame teachers, police and firemen for the whole fuckup HE caused by selling the "investments" to the state. [/quote] And sleeps just fine at night. No punishment, instead rewarded by being elected into public office? And this is a guy being called out. How many other crooks have done / are doing similar shit. They are basically being protected by the government, by taxpayers. Are we all in agreement on how fucked up this is? More so than John Q. Public is aware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1299521980' post='975525'] I agree somewhat. I warned my brother not to go with the interest-only ARM when he mentioned it (accountant here). He chose not to listen to my advice, and paid the price. Thank god he was still able to afford his house payment, tho he has had to cut back a lot everwhere else. My problem is that the mice are guarding the cheese. The old days of one trusting his banker to have his best interest at heart ala "It's a Wonderful Life" are history. Now you need to treat your banker or loan officer like you do a used car salesman (no offense to used car salesmen but you get my drift). You are completely right. The responsibility is with the government to protect us from crap like this, hence the need for MORE regulation. [b]HOWEVER, it is also the government's responsibility to let these assholes sink when they fuck up, just like they let the borrowers sink when they do.[/b][/quote] Yes 100% agree. That is why I hate that Harry Asshole Reid got reelected. Both of our asshole senators supported that bullshit bailout. My congressional rep didn't though (I think), They're cool. I didn't vote for anyone who supported that nonsense. I'm just pissed that my fellow citizens are FUCKING IDIOTS and didn't even care enough to send a message. This was the biggest political issue ever in my voting lifetime (IMO) and my fellow citizens shit the bed. [quote] I think you are missing what happened though. It wasn't just the bullshit mortgages to people that couldnt afford them that caused the current economic climate. It was the fact that they took these bullshit mortgages, cut them apart, and repackaged them as AAA investments to people like Kasich who sold these "investments" to the states, pension funds, foriegn governments etc. This is where the crime takes place in my opinion. They misrepresented the products they were selling to the point of fraud. The icing on the cake is this asshole Kasich (sp?) gets elected governor (seriously? wtf were you guys smoking??) then has the balls to blame teachers, police and firemen for the whole fuckup HE caused by selling the "investments" to the state. [/quote] I have zero problems with derivatives. I do have a problem with pensions investing in risky shit like that. Oh yeah nobody misrepresented ratings - people make mistakes. Moody's and all the other ratings agencies are all just a bunch of Mel Kiper's. They probably honestly felt like those were good investments. If you ever researched a stock or a fund, you would find lots of reviews on both sides of the argument. Same as with football. Some like Cam, some hate Cam. Same here. Pension managers should have been fired. Not for being sleazy, but for being shitty managers. Again, regulation would be cool on retirement stuff. Just like the govt has restrictions on individuals getting into hedge funds, it should have some rules or totally ban pensions from getting into these risky vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Cat' timestamp='1299522532' post='975526'] And sleeps just fine at night. No punishment, instead rewarded by being elected into public office? And this is a guy being called out. How many other crooks have done / are doing similar shit. They are basically being protected by the government, by taxpayers. Are we all in agreement on how fucked up this is? More so than John Q. Public is aware? [/quote] This is why I'm ever so close to just joining the bad guys. Might as well. People are too fucking stupid to fix anything. I don't have any faith in the general pop. That is why I love regulation on EVERYTHING. Protect me from the masses, please, I'll take a heavy dose of regulation any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1299521980' post='975525'] I agree somewhat. I warned my brother not to go with the interest-only ARM when he mentioned it (accountant here). He chose not to listen to my advice, and paid the price. Thank god he was still able to afford his house payment, tho he has had to cut back a lot everwhere else. My problem is that the mice are guarding the cheese. The old days of one trusting his banker to have his best interest at heart ala "It's a Wonderful Life" are history. Now you need to treat your banker or loan officer like you do a used car salesman (no offense to used car salesmen but you get my drift). You are completely right. The responsibility is with the government to protect us from crap like this, hence the need for MORE regulation. HOWEVER, it is also the government's responsibility to let these assholes sink when they fuck up, just like they let the borrowers sink when they do. The whole "this bank is too big to default" is crap. If they are too big to fall, then they should be restricted by a LOT of restrictions. [b]I think you are missing what happened though. It wasn't just the bullshit mortgages to people that couldnt afford them that caused the current economic climate. It was the fact that they took these bullshit mortgages, cut them apart, and repackaged them as AAA investments to people like Kasich who sold these "investments" to the states, pension funds, foriegn governments etc. This is where the crime takes place in my opinion. They misrepresented the products they were selling to the point of fraud. The icing on the cake is this asshole Kasich (sp?) gets elected governor (seriously? wtf were you guys smoking??) then has the balls to blame teachers, police and firemen for the whole fuckup HE caused by selling the "investments" to the state.[/b] [/quote] Right on. And here's a refresher course for those who need it on exactly what caused the mortgage crisis and subsequent global financial meltdown: [url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90327686"]Giant Pool of Money[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1299522679' post='975528'] This is why I'm ever so close to just joining the bad guys. Might as well. People are too fucking stupid to fix anything. I don't have any faith in the general pop. That is why I love regulation on EVERYTHING. Protect me from the masses, please, [b]I'll take a heavy dose of regulation any time.[/b] [/quote] COMMUNIST!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1299522823' post='975530'] COMMUNIST!!!! [/quote] I'd love to be a communist if I was in charge of passing out the jobs. Rapistburger, you are in charge of jacking off horses to collect samples for in vitro. Oh yeah, gloves and buckets are outlawed in the new SOIS USA, you have to use your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1299520548' post='975522'] Their job is making money, they did well. IMO, protecting the people is the government's job. Predatory lending takes two sides. [/quote] Capitalism only has a shot at working if you have the possibility of failing if you act irresponsibly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1299521980' post='975525'] I agree somewhat. I warned my brother not to go with the interest-only ARM when he mentioned it (accountant here). He chose not to listen to my advice, and paid the price. Thank god he was still able to afford his house payment, tho he has had to cut back a lot everwhere else. My problem is that the mice are guarding the cheese. The old days of one trusting his banker to have his best interest at heart ala "It's a Wonderful Life" are history. Now you need to treat your banker or loan officer like you do a used car salesman (no offense to used car salesmen but you get my drift). You are completely right. The responsibility is with the government to protect us from crap like this, hence the need for MORE regulation. HOWEVER, it is also the government's responsibility to let these assholes sink when they fuck up, just like they let the borrowers sink when they do. The whole "this bank is too big to default" is crap. If they are too big to fall, then they should be restricted by a LOT of restrictions. [color="#FF0000"]I think you are missing what happened though. It wasn't just the bullshit mortgages to people that couldnt afford them that caused the current economic climate. It was the fact that they took these bullshit mortgages, cut them apart, and repackaged them as AAA investments to people like Kasich who sold these "investments" to the states, pension funds, foriegn governments etc. This is where the crime takes place in my opinion. They misrepresented the products they were selling to the point of fraud. The icing on the cake is this asshole Kasich (sp?) gets elected governor (seriously? wtf were you guys smoking??) then has the balls to blame teachers, police and firemen for the whole fuckup HE caused by selling the "investments" to the state.[/color] [/quote] This. Oh and if you watch the video Kasich was involved in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 There is no way the ratings agencies didnt know. I dont buy that for one second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299525323' post='975551'] Capitalism only has a shot at working if you have the possibility of failing if you act irresponsibly.... [/quote] The problem is things got so big that if you let the whole thing fail it effects so many other business its not funny. This is why Glass-Stegal was so important, dont let investment and community banks be the same bank. If the investors fail it may hurt somewhat, but when they are using our money to cover the balance sheets of the bad investments going down.... We should NEVER allow to big to fail in the first place. And that is still a risk... which is why this wall st reform that happened hasnt fixed the main heart of the issue. But when you say this stuff needs more regulation, you get labeled a communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299527937' post='975564'] There is no way the ratings agencies didnt know. I dont buy that for one second. [/quote] Yeah, every ratings agency, every review, every auditor was in on this conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Again I say we are repeating history, read the following it will open your eyes. http://www.law.louisville.edu/library/collections/brandeis/node/191[quote name='sois' timestamp='1299528370' post='975567'] Yeah, every ratings agency, every review, every auditor was in on this conspiracy. [/quote] yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299525323' post='975551'] Capitalism only has a shot at working if you have the possibility of failing if you act irresponsibly.... [/quote] Yup. Pretty much. And our congress fucked that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299528329' post='975566'] The problem is things got so big that if you let the whole thing fail it effects so many other business its not funny. This is why Glass-Stegal was so important, dont let investment and community banks be the same bank. If the investors fail it may hurt somewhat, but when they are using our money to cover the balance sheets of the bad investments going down.... We should NEVER allow to big to fail in the first place. And that is still a risk... which is why this wall st reform that happened hasnt fixed the main heart of the issue. But when you say this stuff needs more regulation, you get labeled a communist. [/quote] I agree with you on glass-stegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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