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Graves was tipping his pitches


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Mets' tip to Graves: Quit tipping pitches
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CINCINNATI | — An explanation as to why Danny Graves became a bullpen punching bag with the Cincinnati Reds before he was designated for assignment may have surfaced in New York.

Several New York Mets reportedly have told Graves that for the last two years he has been tipping his pitches, doing something out of the ordinary that lets hitters know what pitch is coming.

Graves is with the Mets preparatory to signing an on-the-table deal and has thrown on the side for them, where players clued him in.

One veteran player who has played on several teams and is an acknowledged master of stealing signs and discovering tip-offs was asked about Graves.

"Two years?" he said. "No, at least four years. He tips off when he is going to throw his curveball. Graves has great stuff and batters would never hit him the way they have without knowing what's coming."

Veteran Reds pitcher Kent Mercker believes it ... from personal experience.

"It happens," he said. "When I was traded from the Reds to the Atlanta Braves (2003), Atlanta's Chipper Jones didn't even say, 'Hello, how are?' His first words were, 'You're fanning your glove on your change-up.'


"I told him, 'Thanks a lot for waiting so long to tell me,' and he said, 'You were on other teams,' " said Mercker.

"If Danny was tipping a pitch, the hitters would know which pitch he was throwing every pitch because he only throws two (fastball, curve/sinker). That means he tipped off one pitch and if he didn't do it, it was the other pitch."

Even if he was tipping his pitches, Graves was 10 for 12 in save situations, but was hit at a .357 pace and had a 7.76 ERA.

Reds manager Dave Miley said the club was not aware of it if Graves was doing something to let the opposition know what was coming.

"No idea, not that we know," said Miley.

Pitching coach Don Gullett declined to talk about it, "Until I have all the details."

Said catcher Jason LaRue, who caught most of Graves' appearances over the past four years, "Wouldn't surprise me if he was. There had to be some explanation."

In addition to getting paid close to $5 million by the Reds to pitch for the Mets, the Mets have offered Graves $5 million for next season with a $500,000 buyout if they don't want him for 2006.
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Guest bengalrick
[quote]Pitching coach Don Gullett declined to talk about it, "Until I have all the details."[/quote]


yeah gulliett, that might be a good idea, considering you are the mutha fucker that is supposed to catch shit like this...

i have always liked gullett, but i am beginning to think that our pitchers suck for a reason...

this pisses me off trememdously, for some reason...
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[quote name='CTA513' date='Jun 10 2005, 02:25 PM']Graves tips his pitches by throwing them right down the middle.
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/26.gif[/img]
[right][post="101637"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
how do you tip a pitch if your only 2 pitches are a 85mh fastball belt high in the middle of the plate and a 78mph sinker that doesnt break? He has lost the velocity and movement he used to have.

And a batter can guess which he is going to throw, just guess belt high fastball everytime and you should be able to hit a home run.
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[quote name='whodey319' date='Jun 10 2005, 06:43 PM']how do you tip a pitch if your only 2 pitches are a 85mh fastball belt high in the middle of the plate and a 78mph sinker that doesnt break?  He has lost the velocity and movement he used to have.

And a batter can guess which he is going to throw, just guess belt high fastball everytime and you should be able to hit a home run.
[right][post="101651"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Whodey319 stole my thunder! He was effective when he could throw in the low 90s but if you can't throw over 85 then you have 2 pitches. Slow and slower
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Guest bengalrick
[quote name='CarsonDaMan' date='Jun 10 2005, 04:29 PM']If you only throw two pitches, it's not terribly difficult to guess what's coming anyway.
[right][post="101720"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

agreed, but how much easier is it to "guess" when you know its coming... either way i agree... i still don't miss him...
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Guest BengalBacker
Cards' Pujols: 'We were glad when Graves came in'
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CINCINNATI | The revelation that the New York Mets told pitcher Danny Graves he was tipping his curveball when he pitched for the Cincinnati Reds was a pre-game topic Friday.

"If so, that explains a lot," said catcher Jason LaRue. "Just before he left here Danny came to me and said, 'Jason, I have to be tipping my pitches. Do you see anything?'"

LaRue said he figures something was amiss, "Because batters were spitting on nasty pitches they should have been swinging at and jumping all over pitches they should not have been jumping on ... as if they knew what was coming."

Remember the 9-3 lead in the ninth inning that Graves turned into a 10-9 loss, giving up a three-run home run to Jim Edmonds and a two-run home run to John Mabry?

Said LaRue, "The next day Albert Pujols came up to me and said, 'We were glad when Graves came in because then we knew we'd get you-all. That explains a lot. I couldn't figure out what he meant."

And the fact the Mets told Graves he has been tipping his pitches for a long time clicked in LaRue's brain, too. He remembers the night of May 18 in Shea Stadium.

Graves came in to pitch the eighth inning and gave up home runs to Mike Cameron and Chris Woodward, a triple to Jose Reyes — four runs, four hits.

The Mets still have officially announced the signing of Graves to a deal in which the Reds will pay nearly $5 million of his salary this year, with the Mets paying him $5 million next year or giving him a $500,000 buyout.

But Mets scout Al Goldis was in Great American Ball Park Friday and said, "He is going to be with us. We've checked his shoulder and elbow thoroughly and he is healthy. We think he needs to get in better shape to increase his arm speed and he'll regain that five or six miles an hour he lost on his fastball."

Cuban pitcher signed

While the Reds held the big-splash press conference to announce the signing of 18-year-old No. 1 draft pick Jay Bruce, a quieter signing may involve a player who could reach the majors quicker.

The club this week signed Cuban defector and left-handed pitcher Arian Cruz. He was signed in Nicaragua recently by Johnny Almaraz, the team's director of international scouting.

Cruz, 27, established residence in Costa Rica before the Reds signed him. When visa connections are made, Cruz and his 92 miles an hour fastball will report to Class AA Chattanooga.

Machado down . . . again

Infielder Anderson Machado's rehab assignment with Class AAA Louisville lasted almost five innings. Then he was gone.

Machado left the game against Charlotte in the fifth inning with pain in his left knee, the one surgically repaired Jan. 28 to repair torn meniscus and a torn medial collateral ligament.

It was Machado's first game on rehab after remaining for extended spring training when the club broke camp. He'll be in Cincinnati today to have his knee checked by team medical director Dr. Tim Kremchek.

Like the '62 Mets?

Fans of Marvelous Marv Throneberry, Choo Choo Coleman, Frank Thomas, Casey Stengel and all those original New York Mets painfully watch that 1962 team lose a record 120 games.

Reds fans may choke on their Crispy Critters over this one — the Mets pitching staff was better than the current Reds, if earned run average is the determining factor.

The '62 Mets had a 5.04 ERA and the league average was 3.96, so the Mets' ERA was 1.08 higher than the league average. The Reds, as of Friday, had a 5.56 ERA and the league average was 4.30, so the Reds' ERA is 1.26 higher than the league average.

For Sweet Lou

Jacob Cruz smiled when asked if he had ever hit home runs in consecutive at-bats in his career, as he did in pinch-hitting assignments Wednesday and Thursday against Tampa Bay.

"Lou Piniella has to hate me," Cruz said.

Why?

"Well, I did it one other time ... also against Lou's team. It was when I was with Cleveland and Lou managed in Seattle. I was playing regularly for Cleveland — those were the good ol' days — and I hit one my last time up in one game then my first time up the next game."

Hancock signs in

Josh Hancock hopes his second rehab start, Sunday in Louisville, goes better than his first.

"The players there got on me pretty good," he said. "I hope this one turns out better. I breezed for three innings, then gave up back-to-back home runs to start the fourth and then it was hit, hit, hit, hit, hit."

Hancock said the right groin injury that has kept him inactive since spring training is holding up and, "On Thursday I threw a bullpen for (Louisville pitching coach) Mack Jenkins and I felt better than at any time since spring training."
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Graves sucks, but maybe there's something to this...
I think that when you've only got two pitches, well, you've got a 50-50 chance at guessing what it is anyway....
Maybe he was tipping when he was going to throw it over the middle of the plate...wait, he always did that, nevermind...

I believe it has been time for Gullet to go for quite awhile now. Our young arms aren't developing all that well (Hudson and Hancock aside), and if Gullet is involved in scouting potential free-agents, well...he did a great job with Eric Milton...
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Just shows how much the Reds managerial staff sucks. The rest of baseball sees a problem and they don't notice. The pitching coach, manager, someone on the fucking team should have caught that. Piss-poor staff in my opinion.

I think Graves will do good for the Mets. They needed a little bullpen depth, and I think working with another staff will do him so good. I don't think he will ever be an All-Star again, but I think he can turn into a decent relief guy, which he wasn't lately in Cincinnati.
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Guest CrazyIrishman5
He had 4 pitches! Cut Fastball, fastball, sinker and curve ball. He was tip off his curve ball and if you know a curve ball is coming it not hard to hit!
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Guest BengalBacker
Heard on the radio today that the Mets people are also saying he's out of shape. They think he just needs to work out, eat right and stop tipping his pitches.
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Guest Claptonrocks
Albert Puhols said that Graves was doing just that.. Is Gullitt a joke or what?
Does this guy ever look at film? Why do they keep him? Oh year Pete Schorek about 10 years ago .. allmost forgot that one...
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[quote name='Claptonrocks' date='Jun 14 2005, 02:01 PM']Albert Puhols said that Graves was doing just that.. Is Gullitt a joke or what?
Does this guy ever look at film? Why do they keep him? Oh year Pete Schorek about 10 years ago .. allmost forgot that one...
[right][post="103055"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Tipping his pitches or not, a flat 86 MPH pitch is going to get parked in the seats whether you tell the guy you are throwing it or not. Bottom line was that Graves had lost it. He's overweight which probably caused the drop in his velocity. His attitude also seemed very ho-hum and Reds decided enough was enough. It was a controversial call even still, but what's done is done. I hope Graves gets himself together and pitches well.
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Guest Bengal_Smoov
[quote name='BengalsNYC' date='Jun 15 2005, 01:22 PM']Tipping his pitches or not, a flat 86 MPH pitch is going to get parked in the seats whether you tell the guy you are throwing it or not.  Bottom line was that Graves had lost it.  He's overweight which probably caused the drop in his velocity.  His attitude also seemed very ho-hum and Reds decided enough was enough.  It was a controversial call even still, but what's done is done.  I hope Graves gets himself together and pitches well.
[right][post="103418"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Heard he gave up 3 in the 8th tonite...ouch, not a good way to make your debut in NYC.
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Guest BengalsOwn
[quote name='BengalBacker' date='Jun 12 2005, 02:22 AM']Heard on the radio today that the Mets people are also saying he's out of shape. They think he just needs to work out, eat right and stop tipping his pitches.
[right][post="102106"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Everyone on the Reds are out of shape.

A bunch of fatasses out there.
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[quote name='CTA513' date='Jun 17 2005, 04:03 AM']Graves pitched today and I guess the Mets didnt work with Graves tipping his pitches...

1 Inning, 4 Hits, 3 Earned Runs
B)
[right][post="104005"][/post][/right][/quote]

Fantasy tip from the Sporting News
[b]Upon signing with the Mets, Graves had been informed by his teammates that he was tipping his pitches. Apparently, the veteran has yet to rectify that situation.
(Updated 06/16/2005). [/b]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

Sorry bout your luck Mets! you sons of bitches! :P

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