Most people here know that Carson Palmer has had to deal with some very poor defensive play while with the Bengals. In his 6 seasons as our starting QB the average rank of the defense was 19th in scoring and 22nd in yards. Only once has he had a defense that finished in the top half of the league in scoring.

Most people also know that he has been victimized by poor special teams play. The most notable of this being the final two weeks of the '06 season when Carson's clutch last minute scoring drives that would have tied the Broncos game and won the Steelers game were ruined by a botched XP and a missed chip shot 35 yd FG. A win in either one of those games would have sent the Bengals to the playoffs in back-to-back seasons for the first time in over 25 years and capped off one of the greatest "come back" seasons ever.

And of course most people here know that Carson is one of only 3 QBs in NFL history to throw 6 td passes and still lose the game.

However most people probably don't know that in 11 of his 51 career losses (21.6%) Carson has had a passer rating of 100 or better. Only 11 other QBs in NFL history have lost more than 11 games when having a passer rating of 100, but most of them have a lot more than 51 losses. In fact among all QBs with more than 25 career losses only 2 have a higher percentage of losses with a 100 passer rating than Palmer.

Steve Young has the highest percentage. He had a passer rating over 100 in 12 of his 49 career losses (24.5%), but his numbers are skewed by the ridiculous number of games that he had with a 100 passer rating and the overall percentage of games he won. It is hard to complain about getting let down by defense and special teams when you go 63-12 (.840) in games with a 100 passer rating.

But the only other QB with a higher percentage of his losses coming with a 100 passer rating has a career eerily similar to Carson. His career winning percentage (.494) is slightly higher than Pamler's (.474), but his career passer rating is slightly lower (86.0 to 86.9). Thirteen of his 57 career losses (22.8%) came with a passer rating of 100 compared to Palmer's 11 of 51 (21.6%). He made the playoffs twice but, like Carson, lost both. Trent Green had a short run as a top QB. He finished in the top 8 in the league in both yards and QB rating every season from '02 through '05, but the Chief's defense average ranking was 29th.



Palmer played poorly last season and deserves some of the credit for the 4-12 season. However the level of blame being heaped on him by some people here is ridiculous. And when you look at his entire career it is clear that Carson Palmer was the victim of more wasted greatness than almost any other QB in history.

Peyton Manning has had some pretty shittacular Defenses.



Carson had a great Defense and running game in 2009. HE shit the bed.



I am not piling it all on Carson. But I am tired of the excuses too. He was paid like one of the best at his position.
And he hasn't played like one of the best in quite some time now. IF he does come back, he better find that excellence
you're talking about. Or his career will be over sooner than the 4 years left on his contract. And he won't need to retire.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310131937' post='1000050']
Peyton Manning has had some pretty shittacular Defenses.



Carson had a great Defense and running game in 2009. HE shit the bed.



I am not piling it all on Carson. But I am tired of the excuses too. He was paid like one of the best at his position.
And he hasn't played like one of the best in quite some time now. IF he does come back, he better find that excellence
you're talking about. Or his career will be over sooner than the 4 years left on his contract. And he won't need to retire.
[/quote]


that great defense didn't show up for the playoff game either. Nor did the pass blocking, or the WR's.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310131937' post='1000050']
Peyton Manning has had some pretty shittacular Defenses.[/quote]


Manning went 3-13 with the 29th scoring defense in '98 and 6-10 with the 31st scoring defense in '01. In his 11 other seasons the Colts scoring defense has ranked in the top half of the league 6 times include 5 times in the top 10.

He has compiled a passer rating of 100 or better in only 9 of his 67 career losses.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310131937' post='1000050']

Carson had a great Defense and running game in 2009. HE shit the bed. [/quote]

In '09 Palmer had the worst TEs in the league (Coats, Foschi) two of the worst starting WRs in the league (Coles, Caldwell) and an O-line with 3 players in their first full season as a starter.

Yet he was still able to lead 7 drives that either tied the game or put the Bengals ahead in the final 2 minutes and won a division title.

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1310132713' post='1000053']
that great defense didn't show up for the playoff game either. Nor did the pass blocking, or the WR's.
[/quote]






Our highest paid player, who is also paid like an ELITE player went 18-36 for 146 yards, 1 TD and had a QB rating of 58.3.

58.3!!!! Most of his passes couldn't have been caught by a guy 8 feet tall. He had a horrible, horrible game.
And I think it trickled down to the rest of the team. If he played like an Elite QB, they would have probably won.





[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1310132718' post='1000054']
Manning went 3-13 with the 29th scoring defense in '98 and 6-10 with the 31st scoring defense in '01. In his 11 other seasons the Colts scoring defense has ranked in the top half of the league 6 times include 5 times in the top 10.

He has compiled a passer rating of 100 or better in only 9 of his 67 career losses.
[/quote]




Fred, when is the last time Carson had a QB rating over 100 and the team lost? Years ago?

The Colts scoring Defense (24.2 ppg) was on par with the Bengals (24.7 ppg) this past season.
One team won double digit games, the other lost double digit games.

And the scoring Defense stat is skewed anyway. It counts all the pick 6s that Carson threw this past season.

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1310133419' post='1000058']
In '09 Palmer had the worst TEs in the league (Coats, Foschi) two of the worst starting WRs in the league (Coles, Caldwell) and an O-line with 3 players in their first full season as a starter.

Yet he was still able to lead 7 drives that either tied the game or put the Bengals ahead in the final 2 minutes and won a division title.
[/quote]




I was talking about the playoff game Fred. But glad to know Carson can carry a team all by himself.
He caught all of those game winning passes himself, if I recall correctly, didn't he?

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310133769' post='1000060']
[b]I was talking about the playoff game Fred.[/b] But glad to know Carson can carry a team all by himself.
He caught all of those game winning passes himself, if I recall correctly, didn't he?
[/quote]

Is it Carson's fault Shank Graham missed 2 very make-able FGs? He makes those kicks and that could have been a different game.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310133650' post='1000059']
Fred, when is the last time Carson had a QB rating over 100 and the team lost? Years ago?[/quote]


Perfect example of the ignorance behind the blind hatred for Carson on these boards.

Just last year alone:

Cleveland week #4...Palmer 121.4 passer rating
Atlanta week #6.....Palmer 116.4 passer rating
Saints week #12.....Palmer 101.7 passer rating

In those 3 games Carson completed 70.6% of his passes for 1032 yds, 6 tds and zero interceptions.

Guess that really fucks over your "trickle down" theory, eh Old?

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310133650' post='1000059']
Our highest paid player, who is also paid like an ELITE player went 18-36 for 146 yards, 1 TD and had a QB rating of 58.3.

58.3!!!! Most of his passes couldn't have been caught by a guy 8 feet tall. He had a horrible, horrible game.
And I think it trickled down to the rest of the team. If he played like an Elite QB, they would have probably won.

[/quote]


I'm not absolving Carson of blame, but spare me the "trickle down" BS. Coles coughed it up (and Marvin screwed up the challenge) long before Carson ever shit the bed.


Shayne Graham missed 2 FG's.

Coles fumbled on the cusp of the redzone.

Chad ran a wrong route that resulted in an INT.

The oline gave up 3 sacks.

The defense gave up 24 points to an average offense.

The defense gave up 171yds rushing.

The defense gave up two TD's of 35yds+



And you want to put the loss all on Carson? Get the fuck outta here.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310133650' post='1000059']
Our highest paid player, who is also paid like an ELITE player went 18-36 for 146 yards, 1 TD and had a QB rating of 58.3.

58.3!!!![/quote]


And those numbers are better than any playoff game Boomer had in 1988, but he is considered a god by many here just because he won playoff games.

I have never said that Carson doesn't deserve some of the blame for the bengals failings. I just said that many people put TOO MUCH of the blame on him.

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1310134438' post='1000063']
I'm not absolving Carson of blame, but spare me the "trickle down" BS. Coles coughed it up (and Marvin screwed up the challenge) long before Carson ever shit the bed.


Shayne Graham missed 2 FG's.

Coles fumbled on the cusp of the redzone.

Chad ran a wrong route that resulted in an INT.

The defense gave up 24 points to an average offense.

The defense gave up 171yds rushing.

The defense gave up two TD's of 35yds+



And you want to put the loss all on Carson? Get the fuck outta here.
[/quote]

I really wish Carson had done a better job of covering Dustin Keller.

That's some deep stuff. +1 all the way down the board. Just hope that he comes back. It's probably the only way the season will be half decent. That WC offense is going to be hard for any guy who hasn't had playing time in a real game to figure out.

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1310134624' post='1000066']
That's some deep stuff. +1 all the way down the board. Just hope that he comes back. It's probably the only way the season will be half decent. That WC offense is going to be hard for any guy who hasn't had playing time in a real game to figure out.
[/quote]


yea, I get everyone being pissed at him for turning his back on the team/fans, so they've turned their back on him.


But let's not start rewriting history.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310131937' post='1000050']
Peyton Manning has had some pretty shittacular Defenses.



Carson had a great Defense and running game in 2009. HE shit the bed.



I am not piling it all on Carson. But I am tired of the excuses too. He was paid like one of the best at his position.
And he hasn't played like one of the best in quite some time now. IF he does come back, he better find that excellence
you're talking about. Or his career will be over sooner than the 4 years left on his contract. And he won't need to retire.
[/quote]

Peyton Manning is the best QB to ever play the game.

This is a spectacular thread by the way.

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1310134438' post='1000063']
I'm not absolving Carson of blame, but spare me the "trickle down" BS. Coles coughed it up (and Marvin screwed up the challenge) long before Carson ever shit the bed.


Shayne Graham missed 2 FG's.

Coles fumbled on the cusp of the redzone.

Chad ran a wrong route that resulted in an INT.

The oline gave up 3 sacks.

The defense gave up 24 points to an average offense.

The defense gave up 171yds rushing.

The defense gave up two TD's of 35yds+



And you want to put the loss all on Carson? Get the fuck outta here.
[/quote]

Game. Set. Match.

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1310134290' post='1000062']
Perfect example of the ignorance behind the blind hatred for Carson on these boards.

Just last year alone:

Cleveland week #4...Palmer 121.4 passer rating
Atlanta week #6.....Palmer 116.4 passer rating
Saints week #12.....Palmer 101.7 passer rating

In those 3 games Carson completed 70.6% of his passes for 1032 yds, 6 tds and zero interceptions.

Guess that really fucks over your "trickle down" theory, eh Old?
[/quote]

LOL

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1310134280' post='1000061']
Is it Carson's fault Shank Graham missed 2 very make-able FGs? He makes those kicks and that could have been a different game.
[/quote]





Why point out Shayne missing FGs to try and absolve Carson from having a shitty game?



[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1310134559' post='1000064']
And those numbers are better than any playoff game Boomer had in 1988, but he is considered a god by many here just because he won playoff games.

I have never said that Carson doesn't deserve some of the blame for the bengals failings. I just said that many people put TOO MUCH of the blame on him.
[/quote]




I don't consider Boomer a God. But he did win playoff games. And when you're paid like an Elite player, and are the face of the Franchise, you're going to get
more than your fair share of the blame. Just like they get too much praise for winning sometimes.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1310135294' post='1000070']
[b]Why point out Shayne missing FGs to try and absolve Carson from having a shitty game?[/b]








I don't consider Boomer a God. But he did win playoff games. And when you're paid like an Elite player, and are the face of the Franchise, you're going to get
more than your fair share of the blame. Just like they get too much praise for winning sometimes.
[/quote]

Carson had one consistently reliable target that year, and Revis took him out of the game. Shayne's misses were all on him. The snaps and holds were fine.

So I guess with all of these fancy stats....Carson is better than Manning, Boomer and so on???
I don't Carson is why the Bengals lost last year... far from it actually..
But he hasn't been great for the last couple years and oh yea... he quit on this team...

So screw him...

OK.... been silent on the matter because I do love Carson Palmer..... BUT.... if he doesn't want to be here, fine.... hit the fucking door! I'm tired of all the waiting and wondering, frankly, it blows...I want to know who is gonna run the ship now! I wish the players/owners would get the shit together so we can have a damn football season. Start your fucking retirement paperwork Carson because dumbass won't budge and I want to move on for the better of the team. As much as I love ya, I'm done with ya and I care about the team first. Sincerely, BEOTCH

[quote]Palmer played poorly last season and deserves some of the credit for the 4-12 season. However the level of blame being heaped on him by some people here is ridiculous. And when you look at his entire career it is clear that Carson Palmer was the victim of more wasted greatness than almost any other QB in history.

[/quote]

Bullshit. Basically your saying we should give Carson a break because he once was a super duper QB. Fine. That's your POV.

Let the record show his last two opportunities to avoid this "wasted excellence" Carson wasn't an innocent victim and in fact part of the problem. Let's also note that it is Carson that has decided to quit and thus end the opportunity for redemption.

Here's an idea for the apologists: How about Carson play better in the playoff game and if it doesn't result in a win at least it leaves no doubt about him individually. Benson left no doubt he answered the bell. How about Carson not lead a passing cluster fuck in 2010 when the organization went out and got him TO,Gresh, and Ship.

But here is the kicker and I would love the spin from the apologist on this. The only reason people talk about Carson and his "wasted excellence" is because his Bengal career is over. Who caused that? How about Carson come play like a man with AJ Green, Chad, Simpson, Ship and Gresham and slam the door shut on this "wasted excellence" BS.

It's "wasted excellence" because he played like shit in the playoff game. Sucked with a good surrounding cast, and then he quit. End of story.

It's not like Bengal fans want to shit on Carson.

ps....Does any of this matter anymore.... he has abandoned us.... Carson Palmer = DICKMEAT

Carson has been near the bottom of the league since 2008 in the catagories that matter for a QB. Manipulate those numbers to suit your argument all you want, it won't change the fact that since 2008, Carson has been average at best as a QB. And yes, I know, I know...his WR's run wrong routes 100% of the time so nothing is Carson's fault. His OLine is horrible. Again, poor Carson. It's all Mike Brown and the WRs fault for Carson's fall from the elite.

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1310134290' post='1000062']
Perfect example of the ignorance behind the blind hatred for Carson on these boards.

Just last year alone:

Cleveland week #4...Palmer 121.4 passer rating
Atlanta week #6.....Palmer 116.4 passer rating
Saints week #12.....Palmer 101.7 passer rating

In those 3 games Carson completed 70.6% of his passes for 1032 yds, 6 tds and zero interceptions.

Guess that really fucks over your "trickle down" theory, eh Old?
[/quote]



My ignorange comes from not having the time to check out NFL.com for the stats.
Sorry, I have some kids and an actual job to tend to here.

Oh, so the Bengals would have been 7 and 9 instead of 4-12? Spectacular!

And Carson threw 20 TDs, 20 INTS and had a completed percentage well under 60% the OTHER 13 games!

Again, SPECFUCKINGTACULAR!






[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1310134438' post='1000063']
I'm not absolving Carson of blame, but spare me the "trickle down" BS. Coles coughed it up (and Marvin screwed up the challenge) long before Carson ever shit the bed.


Shayne Graham missed 2 FG's.

Coles fumbled on the cusp of the redzone.

Chad ran a wrong route that resulted in an INT.

The oline gave up 3 sacks.

The defense gave up 24 points to an average offense.

The defense gave up 171yds rushing.

The defense gave up two TD's of 35yds+



And you want to put the loss all on Carson? Get the fuck outta here.
[/quote]




Who put it ALL on Carson? I said it had a trickle down effect. Hell, they couldn't hold the ball and
the Jets killed them in time of possession because of that. They had to settle for FG attempts because
Carson sailed the ball 10 feet over motherfuckers heads.

Carson had 48 fucking passing yards in the 1st Half. And was 8-14, QB rating of 58. He REALLY shit the bed in the 2nd Half.
10-22 for 98 yards and 0 TDs. Now you can harp on whatever any other UNIT did. But Carson himself, had an absolute horrible game.
And it effected the entire game. Stop making excuses by pointing fingers elsewhere. This thread is about Carson. Acting like he didn't
have a horrible game because others had one, doesn't mean he didn't have one.

I don't have any great stats to post but.....FACT: Carson got fucked by the Stealers and has NEVER been the same. Fucked up Knee = gun shy = suckage. I had hopes he would recover but lets be honest... he never went back to the '05 form.