Former Bengal Nate Webster Accused Of Sex With a Former Bengals Coach's 15 year old daughter

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1334601008' post='1118889']



[b]If a girl is sexually active... is she a 'child'[/b]?

If that girl decides to voluntarily have sexual contact with someone older than 18, is that molesting a child?

Why are <18 y/o's only allowed to have sexual contact with <18y/o's?

God decides that biologically, a girl becomes a woman when she undergoes puberty. Government/business decides she is a woman at age 18. Who is right?

Just some questions that come to mind...
[/quote]

Absolutely, having sex doesn't make you a responsible adult, that comes with maturity and wisdom. Just like it doesn't make you father if you have kids, you have to actually be there and help take care of your kids in order to be a father.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1334604149' post='1118906']

This was reported when Hue was the coach of the Raiders, so yes he was a former assistant who was no longer with the team when the story broke. Hue left here to come to Atlanta, then he went to Oakland but his family stayed in Cincy.
[/quote]

I think it is certain "when the story broke" it was a former assistant. The news media is still reporting this as if it is still a former assistant. Hue Jackson (Ray Lewis, etc...) were subpoenaed by the defense (Webster). IF it was Hue Jackson why would Webster want him testifying on his behalf ?.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1334602704' post='1118900']


And who determines that 4 years of age difference is ok, whereas 5 is not? Why does the state claim the power to decide that?
[/quote]

Because the states have the power to protect children from abuse. Who do you think should make the decision?

What if an honorable 25 year old man wants to have sex with a 5 year old girl?

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1334602704' post='1118900'] Or else is it legally acceptable for that 15 year old to instead go around sleeping with other 15 year olds?
[/quote]

If two 15 year olds have sex which one do you punish? which one has broken a law? The whole issue with statutory rape is that children are subject to manipulation by adults.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1334604332' post='1118908']

1. A female is capable of entering into puberty at a very early age (could be as early as 8 years old).
2. A young woman reaches full maturity, in terms of brain development, between 21 and 22 years of age. A young man does not reach full maturity, in terms of brain development, until nearly 30 years of age.

In other words, neither are right.
[/quote]


Look, I am in medicine, I can say that all this "brain doesn't become mature until..." is speculative. We don't ever stop maturing and all activities we take part in are parts of that maturation. Scientific dabbling in philosophy is quite common in the religion of science nowadays, but common sense does take priority.

My grandmother was married at 14 and had 7 children with the 24 year old man she married, with the guidance of the parents of both bride and groom. She, today, is the wisest and most wonderful woman I know. Are you saying her marriage to my grandfather was illegal and senseless? Times have changed nowadays, for whatever reasons we can debate, but I don't think government has any right to legislate a matter which should be in the hands of parents.

One thing I will say is that frivolous sexual adventures at any age are an abomination, individually and societally. So random predatory activities are certainly villainous. And within the confines of a parentally guided marriage scenario, it cannot be prohibited for minors to marry in order to be in honorable relationships during the most hormone filled years of their lives! The problem is that predatory scenarios are used to establish laws that control EVERYONE, regardless of circumstances.


[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1334603883' post='1118904']

A 15 year old girl isn't mentally old enough to really know what she's doing and how it will effect her in life. A 25 year old does, or at least should, and thus is taking advantage of a 15 year old girl that doesn't know any better. When it's just 15 year olds sleeping with each other then you're dealing with people at roughly the same mental/emotional level and no one is being taken advantage of.
[/quote]

This is your opinion based on what YOU have seen. How can you decide for everyone based on YOUR experience?

Remember, I am not condoning the specifics of Nate Webster, but the underlying concepts need clearer thought than this issue can illicit.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1311511717' post='1002812']
[b]CINCINNATI (AP)[/b]
A former [url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/cincinnati-bengals/67041"][b][color=#265970]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/b][/url] linebacker has been indicted on sex-related charges [b][size=3]involving the teenage daughter of a former Bengals assistant coach.[/size][/b]

Prosecutors allege that Nathaniel Webster Jr. engaged in sexual conduct with the girl in 2009 when she was 15 and threatened to harm her and her family if she told anyone. Bond was set at $1 million.

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said Thursday the 33-year-old was indicted on single counts of gross sexual imposition and sexual battery and five counts of unlawful sex with a minor with gun specifications. Webster could get up to 36-1/2 years in prison if convicted.

No attorney was listed for Webster.

He played for Tampa Bay from 2000-2003 and for the Bengals from 2004-05. He finished his career with Denver from 2006-08.



[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Former-Cincinnati-Bengal-Nate-Webster-charge-sex-crimes-involving-minor-072111"]http://msn.foxsports...ng-minor-072111[/url]







Former Coach? I wonder who that would be?
[/quote]
If he had just had consensual sex with her, it would ONLY be a 4th degree felony if he knew she was 13 and older and LESS than 16 at the time of the offense. 16 is the age of consent in Ohio as long as you are not a teacher, coach or other type of person.

Gun charges, threats, intimidation etc... this guy is just STUPID on multiple levels. By bringing the other offenses to the mix, he is looking at serious jail time.

What could have been 6 to 18 months is now looking like decades.

Seriously, he is an NFL football player. He couldn't find some of age groupie hanging out at the stadium?

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1334604530' post='1118910']

Absolutely, having sex doesn't make you a responsible adult, that comes with maturity and wisdom. Just like it doesn't make you father if you have kids, you have to actually be there and help take care of your kids in order to be a father.
[/quote]


I agree physically, it is only one aspect. But who is the state to decide that 18 is the right age? Marriage is itselt a growth process and learning process.

Some are mature enough to be married early, some are immature idiots 'fo lyfe'... the state should not be able to dictate the age and with whom one can or cannot establish a sexual relationship. Remember, sexual relationships can happen in many contexts, including healthy committed and parentally guided scenarios and also frivolous, skanky scenarios. Both are not equal, yet are treated as equal based on unrelated interests.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1334606253' post='1118920']
If he had just had consensual sex with her, it would ONLY be a 4th degree felony if he knew she was 13 and older and LESS than 16 at the time of the offense. 16 is the age of consent in Ohio as long as you are not a teacher, coach or other type of person.

Gun charges, threats, intimidation etc... this guy is just STUPID on multiple levels. By bringing the other offenses to the mix, he is looking at serious jail time.

What could have been 6 to 18 months is now looking like decades.

Seriously, he is an NFL football player. He couldn't find some of age groupie hanging out at the stadium?
[/quote]
[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1334606253' post='1118920']
If he had just had consensual sex with her, it would ONLY be a 4th degree felony if he knew she was 13 and older and LESS than 16 at the time of the offense. 16 is the age of consent in Ohio as long as you are not a teacher, coach or other type of person.

Gun charges, threats, intimidation etc... this guy is just STUPID on multiple levels. By bringing the other offenses to the mix, he is looking at serious jail time.

What could have been 6 to 18 months is now looking like decades.

Seriously, he is an NFL football player. He couldn't find some of age groupie hanging out at the stadium?
[/quote]


No doubt.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1334601008' post='1118889']



If a girl is sexually active... is she a 'child'?

If that girl decides to voluntarily have sexual contact with someone older than 18, is that molesting a child?

Why are <18 y/o's only allowed to have sexual contact with <18y/o's?

God decides that biologically, a girl becomes a woman when she undergoes puberty. Government/business decides she is a woman at age 18. Who is right?

Just some questions that come to mind...
[/quote]
Nothing you wrote matters. Age of consent in Ohio is 16 period unless you are a teacher of the person or hold a similar position. The Prosecutor could care less about biology. Besides, the sex part is only a minor felony, its the other parts of the charge that will get him a big sentence if convicted. It isn't CHILD molestation either. Its gross sexual misconduct with a minor. Child molestation (pedophile) is 12 or under in Ohio unless the other person is within 2 years of age I believe.

A 90 year old can have consensual sex with a 16 year old in Ohio without violating the law unless he/she is the kids teacher or the other stuff like its his grand daughter or something.

Each state is different and Ohio's law is fairly lenient and liberal.

[gatorclaws]

If there's grass on the field, play ball?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1334602239' post='1118898']

Not sure of Hue Jackson. The news report was fairly clear that it WAS a Bengals Coach that is NO longer with the team but IS coaching still in the NFL. A little grain of salt is taken with every media report on this subject but most are clear the coach is no longer with the Bengals.
[/quote]



Well, Hue wasn't with the Bengals until a couple of months ago. And this broke almost a year ago.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1334608021' post='1118937']



Well, Hue wasn't with the Bengals until a couple of months ago. And this broke almost a year ago.
[/quote]

Yes, I am referring to media reports released about 4-5 hours ago referring to him as a former Bengal's coach. Don't know if the media is simply copying previous reports on who the victims father is or what their deal is. IF Hue is subpoenaed to appear on behalf of the Defense (Webster) which he is, then why would it be Hue ? If I was subpoenaed to appear in court it would be to determine how much time I received for killing him. It appears he is a character witness much like Ray Lewis, etc... which were also called on Webster's behalf.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1334608596' post='1118939']

Yes, I am referring to media reports released about 4-5 hours ago referring to him as a former Bengal's coach. Don't know if the media is simply copying previous reports on who the victims father is or what their deal is. IF Hue is subpoenaed to appear on behalf of the Defense (Webster) which he is, then why would it be Hue ? If I was subpoenaed to appear in court it would be to determine how much time I received for killing him. It appears he is a character witness much like Ray Lewis, etc... which were also called on Webster's behalf.
[/quote]



All I know is that if BAB says it was Hue's Daughter, I have every reason to believe it was Hue's Daughter.

[T-Dub]

Maybe we should hold off on the speculation? We don't really need to know who's daughter it was, do we?

I'm more interested in wtf Ray-Ray has to do with anything.

Came on here to see if there was anything on the minicamps & got this nightmare instead. Foul.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1334609143' post='1118942']
Maybe we should hold off on the speculation? We don't really need to know who's daughter it was, do we?

I'm more interested in wtf Ray-Ray has to do with anything.

Came on here to see if there was anything on the minicamps & got this nightmare instead. Foul.
[/quote]


Agree on the speculation thing, but curious if why you clicked the link then?

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1334606071' post='1118919']

Look, I am in medicine, I can say that all this "brain doesn't become mature until..." is speculative. We don't ever stop maturing and all activities we take part in are parts of that maturation. Scientific dabbling in philosophy is quite common in the religion of science nowadays, but common sense does take priority.

My grandmother was married at 14 and had 7 children with the 24 year old man she married, with the guidance of the parents of both bride and groom. She, today, is the wisest and most wonderful woman I know. Are you saying her marriage to my grandfather was illegal and senseless? Times have changed nowadays, for whatever reasons we can debate, but [b]I don't think government has any right to legislate a matter which should be in the hands of parents[/b].

One thing I will say is that frivolous sexual adventures at any age are an abomination, individually and societally. So random predatory activities are certainly villainous. And within the confines of a parentally guided marriage scenario, it cannot be prohibited for minors to marry in order to be in honorable relationships during the most hormone filled years of their lives! The problem is that predatory scenarios are used to establish laws that control EVERYONE, regardless of circumstances.

Remember, I am not condoning the specifics of Nate Webster, but the underlying concepts need clearer thought than this issue can illicit.
[/quote]

This matter is not in the hands of the current parents of children and there are some parents which should never have had children. The current laws are pretty close to the ones which were in effect back in the 1920's. Which would have put this matter in the hands of some of our grandparents. Should we change them ? Depends. There are many cases which I would be glad to share with you offline from a law enforcement standpoint that would counter why children younger than 16 should not be of age to consent. Not sure this can be any clearer to the masses than what it already is. There are exceptions to every rule/law and I am sure your grandmother was the wisest woman but for every one of your examples there are considerably more against. I believe that by attempting to clarify this type of situation it will make it unclear and put more children at risk of predatory activities. People want results on removing the threat, stop putting these people back out in society and remove their right to breathe.

P.S. Note to moderators, I am not turning this into a J&D thread. Go Bengals (My gratuitous Bengals mention makes this still a Bengals reply...)

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1334609143' post='1118942']
Maybe we should hold off on the speculation? We don't really need to know who's daughter it was, do we?

I'm more interested in wtf Ray-Ray has to do with anything.

Came on here to see if there was anything on the minicamps & got this nightmare instead. Foul.
[/quote]

Agreed.

Ray Lewis and Willis McGahee were listed because they were a product of the same university as Webster (University of Miami).

[|BlackJesus|]

[b]I believe it was Germany's nineteenth-century Chancellor Otto von Bismarck who eloquently declared that [i]“Tight Makes Right”[/i]. [/b]

[|BlackJesus|]

[b]I think the degree of outrage should also be dependent on how old the 15 year old looks. I’ve seen 15 year olds that look 20 and 20 year olds that look 15.[/b]

[b]Is the 25 year old who dates a 5’1 19 year old who looks 14 with little breasts, morally above the 25 year old guy who dates the 5’8 15 year old who looks like she is 21 developmentally? I’ve also never understood how the same people that get outraged from a 25 year old sleeping with a 15 year old (I realize Nate isn’t 25) don’t seem to mind when the 50 year old man marries the 25 year old girl who was literally a ‘tadpole’ in the womb when he was 25.[/b]

[b]As for the age of consent, it should probably be about 15 anyway.[/b]

[b]Stepping off soap box now … [i]giggity[/i]. [/b]

[B.A.B.]

Why is this story back?

Did he....did he do it again?

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1334601147' post='1118891']


Ray went to the U, as well as Nate. Ray was subpoenaed, so I wonder if indicated that he wouldn't voluntarily testify.

Would he be a "character" witness?
[/quote]

Ray on the stand, "Nate would have never threatened her with a gun, your honor. Hell, we were all taught at the U that a knife is a MUCH better weapon!"

[dabengals12]

All I can say is WOW! We have some borderline pedophiles on here. A 15 year old girl is a kid. Period. I take it that you that are saying age is a subjective factor have no girls, or you wouldn't say that.

[Abu-Zayd]

I guess I come from a society in which people marry young to guard themselves from the temptation to 'fornicate'. In a muslim society, the family and community fosters growth into adulthood when biological adulthood occurs and people are more mature much earlier.

I can see why in a society like this, people feel the need to legislate micro-management of life. However, knowing the experience I know, it is sad that freedom of life is so prevented. Hell, in a muslim society, ownership of property means true ownership, without taxes, without other restrictions. So, as society changes, as it so quickly is, into a controlled existence, I am sad... boo hoo.

Sorry for turning this into a J&D topic, but I don't understand how this topic could be otherwise.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='dabengals12' timestamp='1334615247' post='1118971']
All I can say is WOW! We have some borderline pedophiles on here. A 15 year old girl is a kid. Period. I take it that you that are saying age is a subjective factor have no girls, or you wouldn't say that.
[/quote]


I have a 3 year old daughter in addition to two older boys. And I have two younger sisters. And if they were potentially able to marry at age 15 to honorable men, I would give my seal of approval.

I have known 15 year old men who could lead communities and 15 year old women who could be honorable mothers, far and away more mature and capable than most 30 year olds prevalent today.

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1334608960' post='1118940']



All I know is that if BAB says it was Hue's Daughter, I have every reason to believe it was Hue's Daughter.
[/quote]

I work with a guy who is friends with a former Raiders assistant coach. Before BAB said it was Hue's daughter this guy said the same thing. I saw the text with my own eyes.