Arkansas Bengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [b][url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110724/COL03/307240016/Brown-Family-takes-gives-little-back"]Enquirer[/url][/b] [b]CINCINNATI -- [/b]It's not hard. This is what the poll should tell the Cincinnati Bengals. Specifically, the Brown Family, hereafter referred to as simply The Family. Winning hearts and minds in a forgiving sports town conditioned to living with less requires merely a perception of effort. We don't expect championships here. Just a championship try. We are a forgiving bunch. The paper's Joe Reedy asked Bengals fans – a declining species, threatening to go the way of the dodo bird – for 122 ways to improve the team. The number was in reference to ESPN the Magazine's ranking of the 122 major sports franchises, in the U.S. and Canada. The Bengals finished No. 122. By itself, the dubious ranking is no big deal. It's subjective and insubstantial, a magazine's try at talk radio. There's a decent chance that some of those charged with generating this conversation never have attended a game at Paul Brown Stadium. Reedy's follow-up is far more telling. And useful, should The Family take note. Of the top 50 suggestions for improving things, at least 30 would require little or no money. They are rudimentary. They ask for nothing more than creativity and passion. They include everything from the sublime and obvious – retiring the jerseys of Anderson and Munoz – to the silly and strange: "Require any player with a 'franchise' contract to reside in Cincinnati all year.'' We want to keep players happy, OK? Not torture them. In between were tens of legit suggestions: A Ring of Honor. BengalsFest. Better concessions, a beer garden, a family section, new music. (I'd rather have Andre Smith sit on me than hear Hang On Sloopy one more time.) A stadium that resembles a happy place, not a football mortuary. Shuttle buses, Fan Appreciation Day, luncheons with players and coaches, for the season-ticket faithful. And so on. This is not hard. Any of it. The Family just needs to rearrange its collective dour-ness and embrace the folks who want only to love what's happening here on Sundays in the fall. When it comes to negotiating ways to make money, The Family is very current. When it comes to entertaining the people whose money it takes, The Family folds up its leather helmets and sticks them in pockets not occupied by their thick wallets. The Bengals will never win consistently. The Family isn't interested in that. The money spends the same, 5-11 or 11-5. What they can do is please you – or at least keep you giving them your money, even as you grumble about the lack of a personnel department – by making the so-called "experience'' more fun than acid in your retinas. The Reds understand this. Since Bob Castellini assumed ownership five-plus years ago, the Reds have emerged clearly as the local club that cares about its fans and its community. Players pay for and dedicate ballfields, show up at Redsfest, beat the bushes on the winter caravan. The Reds Community Fund is the most successful PR machine in town. The Reds can't do enough to attract customers to Great American Ball Park. Reduced-price beer, singles nights, fireworks, concerts, bobbleheads, on and on. The Reds work very hard at ensuring your good time. The Bengals open their doors. The Reds don't win a lot more than the Bengals. In the last five-plus seasons, 2011 included, they've won 47 percent of the time. The Bengals are at 42 percent. Each team has made the playoffs once. If you extend the comparison three years, each team has won exactly 47 percent of its games. The Bengals have two division titles, the Reds one. The Bengals are more successful. They get their tails kicked in the perception game. The Family has been frustrated by what it sees as a lack of sophistication by the media and public, when it comes to team-county stadium issues. The Bengals are the victims of knee-jerk criticism, simply because they're the Bengals. There is no bigger piñata in town. Most of it is their own doing. The 122s reap what they sow. If you want your public to give you a break, give your public one. It's not an accident that The Family is perceived collectively as a group of takers. It's not The Family's adherence to the letter of the lease that grates. It's The Family's perceived ingratitude. If you're not going to join the NFL by forming a real-live personnel department, at least doll up the stadium and treat your fans like they matter. Because, well, they do. Meantime, here's No. 119: "Destroy all proof that Scott Mitchell played for the Bengals.'' That's a good one, easily achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Hate Daugherty all you want... But are his comments in this piece not relatively accurate? Reedy asked Bengal fans for suggestions to make the Bengals more "fun" or accessible / make the fan feel "more into it"... All he's saying is will the Browns make use of any of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyBengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 This will never change until SoP croaks. That's the bottom line. I would think that Katie and Troy are a little bit more rooted in a21st century type fan experience than the old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnsBengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' timestamp='1311595277' post='1002973'] [b][url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110724/COL03/307240016/Brown-Family-takes-gives-little-back"]Enquirer[/url][/b] [b]CINCINNATI -- [/b]It's not hard. This is what the poll should tell the Cincinnati Bengals. Specifically, the Brown Family, hereafter referred to as simply The Family. Winning hearts and minds in a forgiving sports town conditioned to living with less requires merely a perception of effort. We don't expect championships here. Just a championship try. We are a forgiving bunch. The paper's Joe Reedy asked Bengals fans – a declining species, threatening to go the way of the dodo bird – for 122 ways to improve the team. The number was in reference to ESPN the Magazine's ranking of the 122 major sports franchises, in the U.S. and Canada. The Bengals finished No. 122. By itself, the dubious ranking is no big deal. It's subjective and insubstantial, a magazine's try at talk radio. There's a decent chance that some of those charged with generating this conversation never have attended a game at Paul Brown Stadium. Reedy's follow-up is far more telling. And useful, should The Family take note. Of the top 50 suggestions for improving things, at least 30 would require little or no money. They are rudimentary. They ask for nothing more than creativity and passion. They include everything from the sublime and obvious – retiring the jerseys of Anderson and Munoz – to the silly and strange: "Require any player with a 'franchise' contract to reside in Cincinnati all year.'' We want to keep players happy, OK? Not torture them. In between were tens of legit suggestions: A Ring of Honor. BengalsFest. Better concessions, a beer garden, a family section, new music. (I'd rather have Andre Smith sit on me than hear Hang On Sloopy one more time.) A stadium that resembles a happy place, not a football mortuary. Shuttle buses, Fan Appreciation Day, luncheons with players and coaches, for the season-ticket faithful. And so on. This is not hard. Any of it. The Family just needs to rearrange its collective dour-ness and embrace the folks who want only to love what's happening here on Sundays in the fall. When it comes to negotiating ways to make money, The Family is very current. When it comes to entertaining the people whose money it takes, The Family folds up its leather helmets and sticks them in pockets not occupied by their thick wallets. The Bengals will never win consistently. The Family isn't interested in that. The money spends the same, 5-11 or 11-5. What they can do is please you – or at least keep you giving them your money, even as you grumble about the lack of a personnel department – by making the so-called "experience'' more fun than acid in your retinas. The Reds understand this. Since Bob Castellini assumed ownership five-plus years ago, the Reds have emerged clearly as the local club that cares about its fans and its community. Players pay for and dedicate ballfields, show up at Redsfest, beat the bushes on the winter caravan. The Reds Community Fund is the most successful PR machine in town. The Reds can't do enough to attract customers to Great American Ball Park. Reduced-price beer, singles nights, fireworks, concerts, bobbleheads, on and on. The Reds work very hard at ensuring your good time. The Bengals open their doors. The Reds don't win a lot more than the Bengals. In the last five-plus seasons, 2011 included, they've won 47 percent of the time. The Bengals are at 42 percent. Each team has made the playoffs once. If you extend the comparison three years, each team has won exactly 47 percent of its games. The Bengals have two division titles, the Reds one. The Bengals are more successful. They get their tails kicked in the perception game. The Family has been frustrated by what it sees as a lack of sophistication by the media and public, when it comes to team-county stadium issues. The Bengals are the victims of knee-jerk criticism, simply because they're the Bengals. There is no bigger piñata in town. Most of it is their own doing. The 122s reap what they sow. If you want your public to give you a break, give your public one. It's not an accident that The Family is perceived collectively as a group of takers. It's not The Family's adherence to the letter of the lease that grates. It's The Family's perceived ingratitude. If you're not going to join the NFL by forming a real-live personnel department, at least doll up the stadium and treat your fans like they matter. Because, well, they do. Meantime, here's No. 119: "Destroy all proof that Scott Mitchell played for the Bengals.'' That's a good one, easily achieved. [/quote] I don't have any problem with this article. He's merely talking about public perception...its hard to argue that the Reds kick the Bengals ass in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote](I'd rather have Andre Smith sit on me than hear Hang On Sloopy one more time.)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote][b]The Bengals will never win consistently. The Family isn't interested in that.[/b] The money spends the same, 5-11 or 11-5. What they can do is please you – or at least keep you giving them your money, even as you grumble about the lack of a personnel department – by making the so-called "experience'' more fun than acid in your retinas.[/quote] Mike is very set in his ways, but I would not go that far. [quote][b]The Reds can't do enough to attract customers to Great American Ball Park.[/b] Reduced-price beer, singles nights, fireworks, concerts, bobbleheads, on and on. The Reds work very hard at ensuring your good time. [b]The Bengals open their doors.[/b][/quote] I'm not saying the Bengals couldn't do more, but the Reds are MUCH more reliant on attendance to field a winning team than the Bengals are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1311601417' post='1002996'] Mike is very set in his ways, but I would not go that far. [/quote] I would. When was the last time Mike Brown said the team's goal was to win a Super Bowl? I don't remember it but I remember him saying the team's goal was to be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1311602039' post='1003001'] I would. When was the last time Mike Brown said the team's goal was to win a Super Bowl? I don't remember it but I remember him saying the team's goal was to be competitive. [/quote] If all Mike wanted to do was make money he would have gone to Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Doc hated Paul Brown too...so he's just being consistent. I have a great time at PBS. More fun in Lot D though. MB has no control over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I love Reds games. That shit is great for baseball. Keep it away from PBS and football. Different animals. Football has TCs, tailgating, etc. Baseball games are like a carnival. Both fun but different and should remain that way. The rest is just perception BS that sways with winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeds Orange Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 His comparison of winning percentages is not valid. A 91-71 record got you a NL Central Championship in 2010, a winning percentage of .562. That same .562 percentage in the NFL is a 9-7 season. An NFL team should have a higher winning percentage than a comparable MLB team to consider it a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saphead Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'm sure Lancey McAlister will be creaming his little pants over this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Bleeds Orange' timestamp='1311606837' post='1003028'] His comparison of winning percentages is not valid. A 91-71 record got you a NL Central Championship in 2010, a winning percentage of .562. That same .562 percentage in the NFL is a 9-7 season. An NFL team should have a higher winning percentage than a comparable MLB team to consider it a successful season. [/quote] Nah. The NFL and NCAA basketball tournaments are closely related. Do you what must to punch your ticket. Once punched try to improve your tournament seeding. Last year a regular season losing team won a playoff game in the NFL. That's extreme of course. But a 9-7 record can get in you in pending the year and once your in it's been proven that 6 seeds can win games or even the whole deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarkster Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 While he may well be a Charmin substitute. I don't see a lot in this article to disagree with and virtually all of it is very defensable opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='snarkster' timestamp='1311616671' post='1003104'] While he may well be a Charmin substitute. I don't see a lot in this article to disagree with and virtually all of it is very defensable opinion. [/quote] Disagree. The concept of the article is laid out in the first few sentences [quote][It's not hard. This is what the poll should tell the Cincinnati Bengals. Specifically, the Brown Family, hereafter referred to as simply The Family. Winning hearts and minds in a forgiving sports town conditioned to living with less requires merely a perception of effort. We don't expect championships here. Just a championship try. We are a forgiving bunch/quote] The example he uses is the Cincinnati Reds. Fine. The failed logic in this article can be displayed by simply presenting this senario. What if the equivalent of Joe Reedy for the Reds asked for similar feed back reqarding the Reds? Would that beat writer come back and have to say "Sorry, we received no responses"? I guess it's possible but I doubt it. Expectation is the key. Once one of our beloved sports franchises reaches a higher expectation the corresponding fan base does not fold their arms and express satisfaction. They instead expect the next tier to be achieved. The concept that the Bengals can roll out a Bengals fest, Ring of Honor, Beer Garden's etc without winning and drastically change their perception is about the dumbest shit I've heard. It's as equally ridiculous to think people are going to just be satisfied with the Reds recent trend. The Reds will find themselves in a stage of disapproval much like the 2005 Bengals if the success does not continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarkster Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1311619509' post='1003135'] Disagree. The concept of the article is laid out in the first few sentences It's not hard. This is what the poll should tell the Cincinnati Bengals. Specifically, the Brown Family, hereafter referred to as simply The Family. Winning hearts and minds in a forgiving sports town conditioned to living with less requires merely a perception of effort. We don't expect championships here. Just a championship try. We are a forgiving bunch/quote] The example he uses is the Cincinnati Reds. Fine. The failed logic in this article can be displayed by simply presenting this senario. What if the equivalent of Joe Reedy for the Reds asked for similar feed back reqarding the Reds? Would that beat writer come back and have to say "Sorry, we received no responses"? I guess it's possible but I doubt it. Expectation is the key. Once one of our beloved sports franchises reaches a higher expectation the corresponding fan base does not fold their arms and express satisfaction. They instead expect the next tier to be achieved. The concept that the Bengals can roll out a Bengals fest, Ring of Honor, Beer Garden's etc without winning and drastically change their perception is about the dumbest shit I've heard. It's as equally ridiculous to think people are going to just be satisfied with the Reds recent trend. The Reds will find themselves in a stage of disapproval much like the 2005 Bengals if the success does not continue. [/quote] Oh sure, any team's fan disapproval rises if it is underperforming on the field - the Reds are no exception. It never reaches the depths that the Bengals attain because of Mike Brown. At the same time, the Bengalss approval never reaches the heights it could if it were not for Brown. I will disagree about lumping all the Browns under "the Family." I've seen more and more indications that Katie is not in lockstep with SoP and has increasingly pushed for a different tack. I think there will be some welcome changes when she obtains contol. I just hope I'm not wrong. Talking daddy into dealing Palmer now would really bolster this belief for me (and I believe she and ML will try to do so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='snarkster' timestamp='1311621379' post='1003158'] Oh sure, any team's fan disapproval rises if it is underperforming on the field - the Reds are no exception. It never reaches the depths that the Bengals attain because of Mike Brown. At the same time, the Bengalss approval never reaches the heights it could if it were not for Brown. I will disagree about lumping all the Browns under "the Family." I've seen more and more indications that Katie is not in lockstep with SoP and has increasingly pushed for a different tack. I think there will be some welcome changes when she obtains contol. I just hope I'm not wrong. Talking daddy into dealing Palmer now would really bolster this belief for me (and I believe she and ML will try to do so). [/quote] Its impossible to compare the Reds to the Bengals. The salary cap or lack there of makes the Reds nothing more than an afterthought most of the time. Its very easy for a GM to explain away why his $75 million dollar team can't match up to the $200 million dollar team. You can only get lucky with young players once or twice every decade at best. If you can't buy good pitching you can't compete. Of course you could be the METS and just spend money and lose. The end result however is many of us, who used to be Reds fans, no longer care. Its hard to be a MLB fan in a small market town. If going to a Reds game were as easy as going to a Dayton Dragon's game I would go all the time. It isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Somebody needs to remind this dooshbag that the reds are currently in the middle of their 10th losing season in the last 11 years. The Bengals, on the other hand, have been .500 or better in 5 of the 8 seasons since Marvin was hired, and have two division title in recent years. In terms of on-field success, there is no comparison. The bengals have been much better than the reds. If this guy is fine with a losing team every year as long as they have a bunch of gimmicks and promotions, then he is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsOwn Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='AZBengal' timestamp='1311627990' post='1003237'] Somebody needs to remind this dooshbag that the reds are currently in the middle of their 10th losing season in the last 11 years. The Bengals, on the other hand, have been .500 or better in 5 of the 8 seasons since Marvin was hired, and have two division title in recent years. In terms of on-field success, there is no comparison. The bengals have been much better than the reds. If this guy is fine with a losing team every year as long as they have a bunch of gimmicks and promotions, then he is an idiot. [/quote] The Reds are 3 games out of first place, are BARELY below .500, and have a talented young team that is only going to get better. The Reds are clearly on the upswing, and have terrific owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [url="http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy"][b][color="#333333"]joereedy[/color][/b][/url][color="#999999"]Joe Reedy[/color] No 123 on the improvement list -- When a significant labor event lasting four months ends, have your HC available or at least a statement [url="http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy/status/95615010474172417"][size="2"][color="#999999"]1 minute ago[/color][/size][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' timestamp='1311595277' post='1002973'] [/quote] [img]http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/news/images/otsp2004k.jpg[/img] [size="7"][b]=[/b][/size] [img]http://www.hookingupsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/douche_bag.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1311623778' post='1003187'] Its impossible to compare the Reds to the Bengals. The salary cap or lack there of makes the Reds nothing more than an afterthought most of the time. Its very easy for a GM to explain away why his $75 million dollar team can't match up to the $200 million dollar team. You can only get lucky with young players once or twice every decade at best. If you can't buy good pitching you can't compete. Of course you could be the METS and just spend money and lose. The end result however is many of us, who used to be Reds fans, no longer care. Its hard to be a MLB fan in a small market town. If going to a Reds game were as easy as going to a Dayton Dragon's game I would go all the time. It isn't. [/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBengal Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='BengalsOwn' timestamp='1311630486' post='1003254'] The Reds are 3 games out of first place, are BARELY below .500, and have [b]a talented young team that is only going to get better.[/b] [b]The Reds are clearly on the upswing[/b], and have terrific owners. [/quote] What the hell do you base these stupid comments on? The reds had one winning season and now they are back to their losing ways - sitting in 4th place with a losing record almost two-thirds of the way into the season. And how do you claim they are a talented young team that is only going to get better and is on the upswing? Seems to me like they are getting worse. They aren't as good as they were last year. Sounds like a downswing to me. They had one season when everything went their way and they beat a bunch of REALLY bad teams in an awful division and had a horrible record against teams that were over .500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickeyshuffler Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Glad to hear someone else that hates hang on sloopy. I thought I was the only one that didn't do the OH-IO dnace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 There's no doubt that the Reds do more for their fans than the Bengals do in terms of the "fan experience". But you can't really compare a 162 game season to a 16 game one either. Sure, the Brown family could have more "feel good" fan experiences than they currently do, but at the end of the day, its the Reds that NEED attendance more than the Bengals do, despite blackouts. There are only 8 home games so the Bengals MUST maximize their profit in order to be...profitable. It IS a business at the end of the day and so are the Reds, but there are more opportunities for the Reds to do cheap things for the fans to improve attendance than the Bengals can do. The Bengals could do more, I agree. Their fucking owner could be more forthcoming. I wish Mark Cuban owned the Bengals instead of Mike Brown. Mike's biggest problem is that he's invisible to fans except for once a year, and when he is visible/accessible, he's boring, unengaging and predictable. He could do more, but he doesn't. Football will never be baseball so the comparison is mostly invalid, but Mike could reach out to his ticket holders much, much more than he does without giving up much, if any, profit. In fact I would argue that if the Bengals PR department was more proactive, it would reap untold dividends for the ownership. But he's stuck in 1990. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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