Patriot Act...

[BengalSIS]

How Liberty Dies: The Patriot Reauthorization Act
by John W. Whitehead
6/13/2005


Do our representatives understand how we feel? Or don’t they care? The recent approval by the Senate Intelligence Committee to reauthorize and expand the Patriot Act’s powers leaves one wondering if Congress listens to the American people anymore. Equally worrisome is the fact that the critical discussions and decisions surrounding expansion of the Act are taking place in secret, behind closed doors. What do our government representatives have to hide?

Since the passage of the Patriot Act six weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, 378 local and county governments and seven state legislatures representing millions of Americans have passed resolutions or ordinances opposing aspects of the Patriot Act that they believe to be at odds with the United States Constitution. One City Council member from Arcata, Calif., described his town’s ordinance as “a nonviolent preemptive attack” on the federal government’s revision of the Bill of Rights. Yet our government continues to ignore these concerns and push through its own agenda.

At a massive 342 pages, the Patriot Act violates at least six of the ten original amendments known as the Bill of Rights—the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments—and possibly the Thirteenth and Fourteenth as well.

The Patriot Act was rushed through Congress, even though the majority of our representatives admitted to not reading it, reassured perhaps by the inclusion of a five-year sunset provision. But that sun does not seem to be setting on this chilling piece of legislation. Instead, the Senate Intelligence Committee is not only working to make the Patriot Act permanent, but also to expand its reach.

Among some of the widely cited concerns about the Patriot Act are that it redefines terrorism so broadly that many non-terrorist political activities such as protest marches or demonstrations and civil disobedience can be considered a terrorist act; grants the FBI the right to come to your place of employment, demand your personal records and question your supervisors and fellow employees, all without notifying you; allows the government access to your medical records, school records and practically every personal record about you; allows the government to secretly demand to see records of books or magazines you’ve checked out in any public library and Internet sites you’ve visited (at least 545 libraries received such demands in the first year following passage of the Patriot Act); and most egregious of all, it allows the FBI to enter your home through the use of a special warrant, search your personal effects and confiscate your personal property without informing you that they have done so.

Yet despite the many objections to these disturbing provisions within the Patriot Act, the Senate Intelligence Committee has wholeheartedly embraced the Patriot Reauthorization Act (PAREA), which takes government intrusion into the lives of average Americans to a whole new level.

For example, one “administrative authority” provision within PAREA, which would allow the FBI to write and approve its own search orders, represents a direct assault on the Fourth Amendment’s prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure. Yet if Congress acts to approve what critics have termed “carte blanche for a fishing expedition,” the FBI will be in a position to conduct warrantless searches on people without having to show any evidence that they may be involved in criminal activities. This provision would also lift one of the last restrictions on special warrants for the FBI—namely, that the information be related to international terrorism or foreign intelligence.

Yet while government officials insist that the FBI needs additional tools to fight terrorism, a recent report suggests that all the FBI really needs to do is its job. A Justice Department report reveals that the same FBI that wants to do an end-run around our Constitution passed up on at least five chances in the months before 9/11 to locate two terrorist hijackers as they prepared for attacks on our country. The oversights were attributed to communication breakdowns, lack of urgency and bureaucratic obstacles, among other things. “What we found were sufficient deficiencies in the way the FBI handled these issues,” said Inspector General Glenn Fine. In other words, if the FBI and other intelligence agencies had simply done their jobs and followed up on leads, then there wouldn’t have been a need for the Patriot Act—and there certainly wouldn’t be a need for warrantless searches.

While it remains questionable whether the Patriot Act has really succeeded in protecting Americans against future acts of terrorism, these highly controversial additions to the Act will unquestionably succeed in gutting the Fourth Amendment. Of all the protections found in the Constitution, the Fourth Amendment stands as the final barrier between the privacy rights of Americans and the potential for government abuse of power. But if law enforcement officials can search your home and your records without having to go through a judge, then the concept of a man’s home being his castle will become as antiquated as the Model T.

Despite the fact that an increasing number of Americans are voicing their concerns about intrusions on their privacy, President Bush continues to express his support for extending the Patriot Act. One day after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Bush declared, “We will not allow this enemy to win the war by changing our way of life or restricting our freedoms.” Yet if Congress succeeds in continuing to pass legislation that is at odds with our Constitution, we will have handed a definitive victory to our enemies by allowing unchecked police power to triumph over individual rights and the rule of law in this country. At that point, our government will be no better than the dictatorships we have for so long opposed on principled grounds.

In a Jan. 2003 interview with the Los Angeles Times, constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley remarked, “Since 9/11, the Constitution has gone from an objective to be satisfied to an obstacle to national defense. . . As these changes mount, at what point do we become something other than a free and democratic nation?” Americans would do well to heed the warning behind Turley’s words: with every piece of Patriot Act-type legislation that Congress passes, our basic constitutional protections are being undermined and we are, indeed, moving further away from being a free and democratic nation.

To quote a recent editorial, “Is this how liberty dies?” For the sake of this great nation, I hope not.

Constitutional attorney and author John W. Whitehead is founder and president of The Rutherford Institute and author of the award-winning Grasping for the Wind. He can be contacted at johnw@rutherford.org.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i]Dear, Bill of Rights [/i]

[img]http://bopbush.com/BushFinger.gif[/img]

[Jason]

Ok, anyone here who has had their rights violated, or someone you know personally has had their rights violated by the Patriot Act, raise your hand.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Ok, anyone here who has had their rights violated, or someone you know personally has had their rights violated by the Patriot Act, raise your hand.[/quote]
[b]
Wouldn't this be like saying all those that have personally been shot at by Saddam himself raise your hand ?[/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]Also you can have your rights violated and not even know about it.... it isn't like if a tree falls in the woods and noone hears it.... if they are looking through library records, internet movement, taping phones etc you might not even be aware of it [/b]

[Jason]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 16 2005, 08:51 PM'][b]
Wouldn't this be like saying all those that have personally been shot at by Saddam himself raise your hand ?[/b]
[right][post="103955"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

No. There is a difference between being dead and having your rights violated.

My point is, no one here has had their rights violated. I seriously doubt anyone here KNOWS anyone who's rights were violated.

The left complained we never "connected the dots", but now that we are taking actions that make it easier to do just that, they complain rights are being violated. But I don't know anyone, or know OF anyone who has had their rights violated by this act.

And the REALLY funny thing is the HERO of the left, FDR, interned THOUSANDS of Japanese Americans with no hearing either.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 16 2005, 06:51 PM'][b]
Wouldn't this be like saying all those that have personally been shot at by Saddam himself raise your hand ?[/b]
[right][post="103955"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I`m sure they would raise their hands if they could...

[img]http://www.jayreding.com/images/48.jpg[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]I know of people.... who have had there rights violated.... but hell I only know a few hundred people intimatley enough to even know if they have had the patirot act used on them or not....[/b][/i]


[i]Old, thanks for showing the mass grave that Saddam filled with the weapons we gave him [/i]
[img]http://www.awolbush.com/rumsfeld_saddam.jpg[/img]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 16 2005, 07:10 PM'][i][b]I know of people.... who have had there rights violated....  but hell I only know a few hundred people intimatley enough to even know if they have had the patirot act used on them or not....[/b][/i]
[i]Old, thanks for showing the mass grave that Saddam filled with the weapons we gave him  [/i]
[img]http://www.awolbush.com/rumsfeld_saddam.jpg[/img]
[right][post="103960"][/post][/right][/quote]


Don’t pass the line of bullshit that the US sold them the chemical weapons used against the Kurds. Iraq bought its weapons from the Soviet Union and the PRC - the US sold Iraq agricultural implements. Iraq’s chemical weapons factories have been linked our friends in Old Europe. The Federation of American Scientists has more on the real history of the Iraqi CW program.

[b]Iraqi Scientist Reports on German, Other Help for Iraq Chemical Weapons Program [/b]
[url="http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html"]http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html[/url]

[b]Chemical Weapons Programs: History[/b]

[url="http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm"]http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm[/url]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Don’t pass the line of bullshit that the US sold them the chemical weapons used against the Kurds. Iraq bought its weapons from the Soviet Union and the PRC - the US sold Iraq agricultural implements. Iraq’s chemical weapons factories have been linked our friends in Old Europe. The Federation of American Scientists has more on the real history of the Iraqi CW program.[/quote]

[i][b]Saddam killed over a million Iranians in the Iran -Iraq war alone.... where the US and Reagen sold weapons to both sides... Also Sure Saddam gassed the Kurdish people at times, but most of his persecution on them was with small arms and rounding them up and just shooting them with US made guns.... [/b][/i]

[Jamie_B]

My God some of you have lost touch with reality...

Let’s not do anything to give the people protecting us a better chance to do it, hell the FBI and CIA didn’t share info before 9/11 very well if at all. So why do things to improve that now? The FBI still does a lot of their cases on paper, so why should that improve either? Lets not improve the information structure in this country because then when we do get attacked again we can just blame it on whatever politician is in power and use an absurd reason like he lied to get us more oil, or to get revenge or whatever is easier for us to deal with at the time.

Hell lets not even have secret or top secret clearances at all, or even better let’s not require that people who hold the highest clearance go through a stringent lie detector test. Let just tell the entire world what were doing to protect ourselves because we want to live up to idealistic notions.

Idealism if fine and I agree with many of you on the points you make regarding it, but we don’t live in an idealistic world, I wish we did. We live in a world where government programs fail because of people's hubris or their greed, and in turn sometimes cause us major problems that our enemy is able to take advantage of, we live in a world where people want to bomb our buildings and kill you or me or our children, all be it we do bring some of that on ourselves... but to say we shouldn’t give the people protecting us the tools they need to do such is like giving the enemy the keys to the palace, some of you want to roll out the red carpet and invite them in for tea.

I implore you to get a grip on reality because if we don’t we will be attacked again and it will be more than just a few buildings with several thousand dead. I remind you that they had bigger plans than that and if we don’t have these tools to stop them they will succeed and you won’t care about your civil liberties when its you that has to pick up a gun and fight on our soil because we didn’t do all that we could to stop this. It’s too late to change the way we behaved in the past towards these countries that caused some of this, there is no rewind button on history. Yes we can do things now to better the situation, but we can’t ignore the problems that the past has created either.

Rather let’s go forward and give these heroes of our nation the best tools they need to protect us in this time of crisis and then when the crisis is over return to our idealistic notions and repeal some of these things. And if there are some who take advantage of this situation to do things that the spirit of these laws didn’t intend then prosecute them the to the full extent of the law, make examples of them to show others who might think of doing the same that that will not be tolerated. I beg of you to stop tying our hands behind our back so that none of us ever have to fight this war or any war for that matter on our soil again.

[BengalSIS]

I do not think all these things in the Patriot Act are necessary. I am not willing to give up so much power and basic rights in the name of a "war on terror"

Sorry.

All these damn multicolored alerts have people so freaked out that they feel it is necessary to be safe. I don't. Shit's gonna happen no matter what they take from us. Proportionately, more harm than good can come out of these new changes to Patriot Act.

[Guest bengaljet]

Sis,I'll tell ya that those color alerts got me scared.What was the color today?Seemed to be a lot of alerts right around the election-haven't heard much lately.
Jamie, Safety? There are 10,000 Illegals crossing the border EVERYDAY. Does the FBI know everything about these illegals? What can the FBI do when they are already in US? Shouldn't the US SECURE its own borders for SAFETY reasons?
US is "the policeman of the world" and can not even secure its own borders. Why would anyone want to give up freedoms to a gov't that doesn't understand that US borders must be secure 1st. IMO a terrorist is not going to come into the US and set up an elaborate system(although with 10,000 ilegals/day-they could).They're not going to use phones,computers or any other way to be detected--they'll make it simple and fast. People in this administration have said"it's not a ? of if,but a question of when"a terrorist attack will happen. Color alerts won't mean a damned thing---WHEN it happens.
Who's smarter-the guys that wrote the "Bill of Rights" or those that are trying to take them away?
I thought Republicans were vs "big brother gov't" getting into our personal lives. Secure the borders and leave the freedoms alone.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bengaljet' date='Jun 17 2005, 03:23 AM']Sis,I'll tell ya that those color alerts got me scared.What was the color today?Seemed to be a lot of alerts right around the election-haven't heard much lately.
Jamie, Safety? There are 10,000 Illegals crossing the border EVERYDAY. Does the FBI know everything about these illegals? What can the FBI do when they are already in US? Shouldn't the US SECURE its own borders for SAFETY reasons?
US is "the policeman of the world" and can not even secure its own borders. Why would anyone want to give up freedoms to a gov't that doesn't understand that US borders must be secure 1st. IMO a terrorist is not going to come into the US and set up an elaborate system(although with 10,000 ilegals/day-they could).They're not going to use phones,computers or any other way to be detected--they'll make it simple and fast. People in this administration have said"it's not a ? of if,but a question of when"a terrorist attack will happen. Color alerts won't mean a damned thing---WHEN it happens.
Who's smarter-the guys that wrote the "Bill of Rights" or those that are trying to take them away?
I thought Republicans were vs "big brother gov't" getting into our personal lives. Secure the borders and leave the freedoms alone.
[right][post="104115"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Jet when this stops being about laying blame and starts being about actually solving the issues that face us today, maybee then you and I can have a serious converstaion about this stuff and Id me more than happy to explain to you the failures Ive seen on a first hand basis that have more to do than whos in office, untill then.....

[Guest bengalrick]

great post jaime...

guys, the color system isn't even used for us... that is for the police and others to be "more alert"... it is a fine system imo, but the biggest problem seems to be that we are not educated enough on it, to know what it is used for... but every explaination i ever hear, usually says that we aren't supposed to pay attention to it, for the most part... it is used for law enforcement and other gov't agencies... everytime the level has raised though, we have found out soon later that something was being planned... but it hasn't moved in a long time now... it isn't used as a scare tactic though imo...

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jun 17 2005, 06:43 AM']Jet when this stops being about laying blame and starts being about actually solving the issues that face us today, maybee then you and I can have a serious converstaion about this stuff and Id me more than happy to explain to you the failures Ive seen on a first hand basis that have more to do than whos in office, untill then.....
[right][post="104125"][/post][/right][/quote]


He did discuss what needs to be done. SECURE the borders



If they can't get in, they can't set up elaborate networks that take away my freedoms and cost taxpayers money to spy on

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BengalSIS' date='Jun 17 2005, 10:00 AM']He did discuss what needs to be done.  SECURE the borders



If they can't get in, they can't set up elaborate networks that take away my freedoms and cost taxpayers money to spy on
[right][post="104171"][/post][/right][/quote]

very, very true... but we also need to weed out our enemies that our already here... the immigration topic is going to get taken care of, and the minuteman project is exactly why... we surely can't depend on the gov't for taking care of the borders (which sucks) but we need to find the embedded terrorists in our country... i don't see a problem w/ (for instance) looking into library records, b/c this might be a place that terrorists look for secrets on chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, etc... same (and more so) w/ the internet, b/c that is a place that terrorists (extremist muslic or crazy abortion clinic bombers alike) are going to look for these things, and a good way to find out who is doing it, is checking internet and library habits... i mean, if someone goes to go-bengals.com and similar sites, they aren't going to spy on me... if i go to some youngboys website, or a site that explains how to make weapons, or an extremist islam website then i WANT their rights to be hampered... i love my freedom, but if i were doing things that i shouldn't, should i have the same rights as my neighbor, who is a good citizen? i think not...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[img]http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050613/wolverton.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[img]http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050616/markstein.gif[/img]

[jza10304]

[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jun 17 2005, 10:13 AM']very, very true... but we also need to weed out our enemies that our already here... the immigration topic is going to get taken care of, and the minuteman project is exactly why... we surely can't depend on the gov't for taking care of the borders (which sucks) but we need to find the embedded terrorists in our country... i don't see a problem w/ (for instance) looking into library records, b/c this might be a place that terrorists look for secrets on chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, etc... same (and more so) w/ the internet, b/c that is a place that terrorists (extremist muslic or crazy abortion clinic bombers alike) are going to look for these things, and a good way to find out who is doing it, is checking internet and library habits... i mean, if someone goes to go-bengals.com and similar sites, they aren't going to spy on me... if i go to some youngboys website, or a site that explains how to make weapons, or an extremist islam website then i WANT their rights to be hampered... i love my freedom, but if i were doing things that i shouldn't, should i have the same rights as my neighbor, who is a good citizen? i think not...
[right][post="104178"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
or my Amazon.com shopping cart

If I had my way I would monitor all the people who visit the drudge report or newsmax.com. Do you really feel comfortable giving the government that much access to your personal life?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='jza10304' date='Jun 17 2005, 10:51 AM']or my Amazon.com shopping cart

If I had my way I would monitor all the people who visit the drudge report or newsmax.com.  Do you really feel comfortable giving the government that much access to your personal life?
[right][post="104212"][/post][/right][/quote]

if you are buying materials for a bomb in your shopping cart, then yeah... honestly though, this might be pushing the limits...

nice try w/ the drudge comment

to answer your last question, yes... i don't have anything to worry about and i see the internet as a great thing, but can be taken extreme advantage of, and should be regulated... libraries are kind of a joke, b/c of how easy it is to get the same info from the internet... but yes, we really need to regulate the internet and some of the extreme sites, although i wouldn't add either these websites you mentioned, unless we can add michealmoore.com, new york times, and the washington post aswell [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]Hopefully they aren't looking in my shopping cart for AnalXXXDVD.com,

How the hell will I explain that in court with Bushs Puritan judge looking down on me [/b][/i]

[whodey319]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 17 2005, 12:02 PM'][i][b]Hopefully they aren't looking in my shopping cart for AnalXXXDVD.com,

How the hell will I explain that in court with Bushs Puritan judge looking down on me [/b][/i]
[right][post="104221"][/post][/right][/quote]
i personally buy all my porn at www.adultdvdempire.com or from the good old
go-bengals adult store

[BengalSIS]

They will check every website, we can't guarantee they won't. And every farmer, science teacher, biology or chemistry student better watch out. You realize everyday household items make up most homemade bombs? Watch out for that 2 year old and their play-doh....

[Jason]

[quote name='jza10304' date='Jun 17 2005, 11:51 AM']or my Amazon.com shopping cart

If I had my way I would monitor all the people who visit the drudge report or newsmax.com.  Do you really feel comfortable giving the government that much access to your personal life?
[right][post="104212"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I have nothing to hide.

Oh, you forgot Rushlimbaugh.com, drlaura.com, foxnews.com, hannity.com, and glennbeck.com.

Oh, and drudge links to liberal columns and stories as well as conservatives.