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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320115493' post='1054472']

What do you disagree with? I love the responses.



Best RB in football STATISTICALLY. That means very little in my mind. Sure he is good, but he is nowhere near the best back in the league.


Also wanted to point out that there is not one post in this thread where I have been rude to anyone.
[/quote]

I never said you were rude, troll yes, rude no.

Btw, how can you say you dont judge players by stats, but you judge teams by their individual players? How about how they play as a team, not their individual guys.
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[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1320115902' post='1054479']

I never said you were rude, troll yes, rude no.

Btw, how can you say you dont judge players by stats, but you judge teams by their individual players? How about how they play as a team, not their individual guys.
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[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1320115902' post='1054479']

I never said you were rude, troll yes, rude no.

Btw, how can you say you dont judge players by stats, but you judge teams by their individual players? How about how they play as a team, not their individual guys.
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Maybe I need to watch Jackson more, but can you honestly tell me when you watch him you see an elite playmaker. I have never seen him and saud wow that was an incredible run.

I guess I don't see the distinction here, I don't look at stats so much as playmaking and talent. I mean its pretty apparent that AJ Green is a much better and more fearful WR then lets say Lance Moore, when maybe ( and I have not looked) their stats are super close. Teams have to try to take AJ Green out of the game, Lance Moore is an after thought.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320115035' post='1054464']

[b]Those players scare you? Stevie Johnson is a glorified possession receiver on a team with no one else to throw to. Fred Jackson is having a solid year but he is not a game changer. He is no AP or somebody who you scheme against. [/b]Dareus I have not seen much this year but Nick Barnett is just an average guy. Vernon Davis at TE? I guess with our old D that used to be horrible against TEs but we seem to be able to cover them much better these days. Plus with their lack of a legit #2 WR we could easily keep him from being much trouble. I don't see those guys as real threats. Better then average yes, Davis is in an elite group but no game changers.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320115493' post='1054472']
Best RB in football STATISTICALLY. That means very little in my mind. Sure he is good, but he is nowhere near the best back in the league.
[/quote]

Whenever I see you talk about football players you seem to have rigid archetypes about who players are and what they should be. Football is far more fluid than you give it credit for. I get the sense you hold onto opinions and impressions of players based on previous experiences and don't really take in new evidence as relevant a lot.of the time. In a video game CJ2K is far better than Fred Jackson will ever be...but there are two maybe three running backs in the league who are playing at the level Jackson is right now and IMO your selling him short.
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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1320116524' post='1054485']



Whenever I see you talk about football players you seem to have rigid archetypes about who players are and what they should be. Football is far more fluid than you give it credit for. I get the sense you hold onto opinions and impressions of players based on previous experiences and don't really take in new evidence as relevant a lot.of the time. In a video game CJ2K is far better than Fred Jackson will ever be...but there are two maybe three running backs in the league who are playing at the level Jackson is right now and IMO your selling him short.
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I have never seen him as a game breaker, it could be that I am just not seeing him play as much as I think I am. I am not going to say that I watch every down of Bills football. So in a sense I agree with you but I don't agree that I don't add in new information, just that there might not be new information.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320103614' post='1054361']


Ryan Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith huh?
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And Flacco is better than these two? Both of these teams (Bills and Niners) are legit this year, both lead their division. The Bills made Brady throw 4 picks and beat up on the Pats, Andy came out in the 4th quarter and led this team to a come from behind victory against that same Bills team.

The Ravens got beat by Blaine Gabbert and the Jags, in normal weather conditions... The Bengals went on the road to Jax and won a game in a tropical storm.


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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320117087' post='1054490']

I have never seen him as a game breaker, it could be that I am just not seeing him play as much as I think I am. I am not going to say that I watch every down of Bills football. So in a sense I agree with you but I don't agree that I don't add in new information, just that there might not be new information.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320116308' post='1054482']

Maybe I need to watch Jackson more, but can you honestly tell me when you watch him you see an elite playmaker. I have never seen him and saud wow that was an incredible run.


[/quote]

Yeah, he plays in some podunk down like BUFFALO. Not the cultured urban center of Green Bay or something.

The fact that they have won games is a fact that your incredulity doesn't change.
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[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1320118743' post='1054503']



Yeah, he plays in some podunk down like BUFFALO. Not the cultured urban center of Green Bay or something.

The fact that they have won games is a fact that your incredulity doesn't change.
[/quote]

So you have seen him and said wow that was an incredible run?
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[quote name='NASTYNATI' timestamp='1320118323' post='1054500']
And Flacco is better than these two? Both of these teams (Bills and Niners) are legit this year, both lead their division. The Bills made Brady throw 4 picks and beat up on the Pats, Andy came out in the 4th quarter and led this team to a come from behind victory against that same Bills team.

The Ravens got beat by Blaine Gabbert and the Jags, in normal weather conditions... The Bengals went on the road to Jax and won a game in a tropical storm.
[/quote]

The Ravens D is the best in the league IMO, Ray Rice is one of the best RBs and they have Anquin as well. Good teams lose games sometimes. Maybe I am just wrong about the Bills and Niners being bad and need to watch them more.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320119529' post='1054507']


The Ravens D is the best in the league IMO, Ray Rice is one of the best RBs and they have Anquin as well. Good teams lose games sometimes. Maybe I am just wrong about the Bills and Niners being bad and need to watch them more.
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The Ravens offense is pathetic when you take Ray Rice out of the game, the Bengals D has been excellent against the run all season and has always found a recipe for success when playing the Ravens. I respect the Ravens but they are beatable.

Honestly man I don't spend a ton of time around here so I don't have a personal issue with you like some, but you have spent the last 30-60 mins defending yourself and with no good reason. You are arguing just to argue

You have contradicted yourself on more than one occasion. If you wanna be "disgruntled fan" fine but don't hijack a thread making silly claims about division leading team being "bad" then come back and admit you haven't followed them closely enough to make that sort of judgement. By your standards good teams must only play the toughest schedule, (how can we really determine what a tough schedule is? The teams with winning records must play and beat only teams with winning records otherwise the teams with winning records haven't played anybody and are bad) they must have 53 pro bowl players on the roster and absolutely must be led by an elite QB.

Bottom line you and a few others were and still are dead wrong about this team. The Bengals can't help whom they have or have not played, they are taking care of business more often than not and that's all any of us can ask for.

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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320118310' post='1054499']
So answer me this, 1 game to go and you need to get into the playoffs would you rather play the Bills or Niners or the Chargers, Steelers, Ravens, Pats, Jets, Texans, Giants, Eagles, Packers, Lions, Saints, Falcons?

Chargers, Texans, Ravens, Giants, Lions, Bills in that order
[/quote]
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[quote name='NASTYNATI' timestamp='1320120730' post='1054508']
The Ravens offense is pathetic when you take Ray Rice out of the game, the Bengals D has been excellent against the run all season and has always found a recipe for success when playing the Ravens. I respect the Ravens but they are beatable.

Honestly man I don't spend a ton of time around here so I don't have a personal issue with you like some, but you have spent the last 30-60 mins defending yourself and with no good reason. You are arguing just to argue

You have contradicted yourself on more than one occasion. If you wanna be "disgruntled fan" fine but don't hijack a thread making silly claims about division leading team being "bad" then come back and admit you haven't followed them closely enough to make that sort of judgement. By your standards good teams must only play the toughest schedule, (how can we really determine what a tough schedule is? The teams with winning records must play and beat only teams with winning records otherwise the teams with winning records haven't played anybody and are bad) they must have 53 pro bowl players on the roster and absolutely must be led by an elite QB.

Bottom line you and a few others were and still are dead wrong about this team. The Bengals can't help whom they have or have not played, they are taking care of business more often than not and that's all any of us can ask for.
[/quote]

I dont think i have contradicted myself one time. I dont think they are good teams. If people say hey they are good teams maybe you should watch them more. Then am I not allowed to say, maybe I should but from what I have seen they are not very good? I just dont get the overwhelming adversarial tone in this damn place. Why does everyone try to win the conversation?

And I dont mean to hijack the thread, but I certainly do mean to defend myself.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320121194' post='1054510']

I dont think i have contradicted myself one time. I dont think they are good teams. If people say hey they are good teams maybe you should watch them more. Then am I not allowed to say, maybe I should but from what I have seen they are not very good? I just dont get the overwhelming adversarial tone in this damn place. Why does everyone try to win the conversation?

And I dont mean to hijack the thread, but I certainly do mean to defend myself.
[/quote]

Yeah we get it, the uniforms are ugly or something.

Not a lot to discuss, since you admit you have no objective justification for your stance.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320121194' post='1054510']


I dont think i have contradicted myself one time. I dont think they are good teams. If people say hey they are good teams maybe you should watch them more. Then am I not allowed to say, maybe I should but from what I have seen they are not very good? I just dont get the overwhelming adversarial tone in this damn place. Why does everyone try to win the conversation?

And I dont mean to hijack the thread, but I certainly do mean to defend myself.
[/quote]

If you feel you have to defend yourself on an Internet message board clearly things have gone too far. I was basically offering more of a suggestion to cool it with the negative nan attitude at the risk of missing a potentially great season. The thread was started to express happiness and to discuss how great it is this team is 5-2.... Not to focus on all of the what if's , but we haven't played, blah blah . Just my two cents
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320119416' post='1054505']

So you have seen him and said wow that was an incredible run?
[/quote]

Duh.

The dude has a thousand yards from scrimmage already. He is among the league leaders in yards & TDs. He's gaining 5.5 yards a carry and 13 yards a pass.

But if my eyes were closed none of that ever happened.
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[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1320122391' post='1054514']

Duh.

The dude has a thousand yards from scrimmage already. He is among the league leaders in yards & TDs. He's gaining 5.5 yards a carry and 13 yards a pass.

But if my eyes were closed none of that ever happened.
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None of that matters. What really matters is this stat and by it he is much more big play than I have seen. In fact he is the most big play in the league.

[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingBigPlays"]http://espn.go.com/n...rushingBigPlays[/url]

Who is your guess on the top WR in this category. Without looking. Its not Calvin Johnson.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320103248' post='1054354']

We were coming off a 4 win season with a rookie QB?
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No, we were coming off (2) 4 win seasons followed by a 6 win season. Last place in the AFC Central for 3 years in a row. We were long forgotten and buried by the league and the media in 1981.

It took a while for the fans to come back that year and Riverfront to fill up, ...but it did, ,,,at some point faith kicks in.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320123264' post='1054515']

None of that matters. What really matters is this stat and by it he is much more big play than I have seen. In fact he is the most big play in the league.

[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingBigPlays"]http://espn.go.com/n...rushingBigPlays[/url]

Who is your guess on the top WR in this category. Without looking. Its not Calvin Johnson.
[/quote]

You're welcome, troll.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320123264' post='1054515']


None of that matters. What really matters is this stat and by it he is much more big play than I have seen. In fact he is the most big play in the league.

[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingBigPlays"]http://espn.go.com/n...rushingBigPlays[/url]

Who is your guess on the top WR in this category. Without looking. Its not Calvin Johnson.
[/quote]

All the fuss a couple weeks ago about Tate and he is 7th in kickoff returns? I'm impressed
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Weston...you're arguing semantics. Who cares about breaking big runs and all the glorified individual stats? What matters every years is wins and losses.

Its 100 yards from goal line to goal line. I really could care less if we get there in 1 big play or if it takes us several plays as long as we get there more than our opponent. The big play is exciting but its not necessary all the time.
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I have to say here that while I don't agree with a lot of what Michael Weston says, he's not a troll. He's not just trying to stir shit, he's saying what he believes to be true. He could end up being right. Just like many think we are going to fold against the "good" teams, how many thought the 49ers, Buffalo and Detroit would be where they are are before the season started? Could one or two of those teams turn out to be a flash in the pan? Wouldn't be the first time. I'm not predicting either way, but it's not unreasonable to think some teams have played over their head.

:shrug:

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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1320115035' post='1054464']


Those players scare you? Stevie Johnson is a glorified possession receiver on a team with no one else to throw to. Fred Jackson is having a solid year but he is not a game changer. He is no AP or somebody who you scheme against. Dareus I have not seen much this year but Nick Barnett is just an average guy. Vernon Davis at TE? I guess with our old D that used to be horrible against TEs but we seem to be able to cover them much better these days. Plus with their lack of a legit #2 WR we could easily keep him from being much trouble. I don't see those guys as real threats. Better then average yes, Davis is in an elite group but no game changers.
[/quote]


Fred Jackson is bad ass.

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[quote name='unleashed' timestamp='1320115130' post='1054466']


Was it 05 when we played the NFC north when all 4 teams were god awful? We rode that season to the playoffs and nobody said a word because we had an opportunistic defense and Palmer was playing out of his mind that year.

Make the playoffs any way you can and anything can happen once you're in. Strength of schedule doesn't mean shit if you're in the playoffs.
[/quote]

Yep. SOS means shit in the NFL.
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[size=6][b]Bengals' 5-2 start raises expectations[/b][/size][list]
[*]By JOE KAY AP Sports Writer
[/list]


CINCINNATI - Nobody expected much out of the Cincinnati Bengals this season, given that they were starting a rookie quarterback and a rookie receiver.
A 5-2 start has changed everything.

The Bengals surpassed their victory total from last season when they beat Seattle 34-12 on Sunday. They've won four in a row, their longest such streak since 2009, when they reached the playoffs.

It's a complete reversal from the same time a year ago, when the Bengals were in the midst of losing 10 consecutive games with receivers Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco getting most of the attention.

The 30-something reality show stars are gone, and the young Bengals team they've left behind is quickly growing up.

"The fact (is) that we're all young and no one has a name for themselves and everyone wants to make a name for this team," second-year defensive end Carlos Dunlap said on Monday. "That's the big difference from last year to this year. Everybody's playing for one another."

There's significance to the strong start. It's only the fourth time the Bengals have started 5-2 since 1990. The last three times, they reached the playoffs -- 1990, 2005 and 2009. They won their first playoff game in 1990, but lost their first-round games in '05 and '09.

The Bengals play at Tennessee (4-3) next Sunday, followed by a four-week stretch against AFC North opponents that will give them a good feel for how they match up. They're tied for second with Baltimore, a half-game behind Pittsburgh.

"The confidence has always been there," Dunlap said. "I don't know how you explain it. I think everybody's more comfortable with where we're at, but they're not complacent. They see the potential and strive to get there together."

They've done it with a defense that ranks among the league's best, special teams that have been solid throughout, and an offense that does just enough with its limited experience.

Dalton ranks 18th in the NFL with an 82.7 passer rating, completing 62 percent of his passes for 1,479 yards with nine touchdowns and seven interceptions. He's the second-highest ranked rookie passer in the league, trailing Cam Newton's 87.1 rating.

Newton has thrown for 2,393 yards with 11 touchdowns with nine interceptions.

Dalton completed 18 of 29 for 168 yards against the Seahawks with two touchdowns and two interceptions. The Bengals' fast start has been largely a function of Dalton's ability to avoid the game-changing mistake.

After the game in Tennessee, Dalton and the young offense will get tested during games against Pittsburgh, at Baltimore, home against Cleveland and at Pittsburgh. The game against the Steelers at Paul Brown Stadium on Nov. 13 will provide a chance to break their streak of seven straight home games that have failed to sell out.

At 5-2, they've given themselves a chance to make something of the rest of their season.

"It's great," Dalton said. "We have to keep this momentum going."

Notes: Coach Marvin Lewis had no update on CB Adam "Pacman" Jones' sore hamstring, which forced him out of the game Sunday following a 63-yard punt return. ... MLB Rey Maualuga said he jogged without pain on Monday for the first time. He's missed the last two games with a sprained left ankle, but hopes to be back for Tennessee. ... The Bengals received a two-day roster exemption on RB Cedric Benson, who was suspended for the game in Seattle because he violated the NFL's conduct policy. The Bengals will have to remove someone from the 53-man roster by Wednesday to open a spot for Benson.


Read more: [url="http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/sports/football/bengals/bengals%27-5-2-start-raises-expectations#ixzz1cSCWhIAn"]http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/sports/football/bengals/bengals%27-5-2-start-raises-expectations#ixzz1cSCWhIAn[/url]
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[quote name='membengal' timestamp='1320104530' post='1054380']
MichaelWeston wrote:



That's a weird fuckin' measuring stick you have. Since a team must have "playoff wins" to be good, I am guessing you were as impressed as hell with Cincy beating Seattle yesterday on the road, since Seattle was a playoff team with a playoff win last year with the 3rd best home record overall in the NFL since 2002.
[/quote]


brilliant.
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