BigDawgBengal Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [color=#000000][quote]The Reds are offering [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alonsyo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Yonder Alonso[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] as trade bait in their search for a closer or a No. 2 starter, reports [/color][url="http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiYBbaqi3lSGZtchw3HcOLARvLYF?slug=ti-brown_hardball_nathan_rangers_feliz_112111"][color=#000000]Yahoo Sports' Tim Brown[/color][/url][color=#000000]. Reds GM Walt Jocketty has spoken to several teams --- including the A's, Blue Jays, Indians and Rays --- about Alonso, though [/color][url="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/reds-talking-about-andrew-bailey-deal.html"][color=#000000]we heard earlier this week[/color][/url][color=#000000] that the Reds thought Alonso was too much to give up for Oakland closer [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bailean01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Andrew Bailey[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000].[/color] [color=#000000]Alonso is regarded as Cincinnati's top hitting prospect, if one without a Major League position since [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vottojo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Joey Votto[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] is cemented at first base.[/color]The 24-year-old has an OPS of .837 in four minor league seasons and hit .330/.398/.545 in 98 plate appearances with the Reds last year. [color=#000000]If the Reds were willing to move him, you would think Alonso would be too much to deal for any closer, not just Bailey. Jocketty has said [/color][url="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/reds-first-priority-is-finding-a-starting-pitcher.html"][color=#000000]his club's top priority[/color][/url][color=#000000] is finding a starting pitcher this offseason, so while the Jays and Indians have some good young arms, they wouldn't be willing to deal a top-of-the-rotation caliber of starter for which the Reds are looking. The Jays and Tribe also have other options at first base, though [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lindad01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Adam Lind[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000], [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Edwin Encarnacion[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] and [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/laporma01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Matt LaPorta[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] wouldn't be major obstacles if Toronto or Cleveland had a legitimate shot at Alonso. The A's and Reds might not be a match on Bailey, but Jocketty might deem [/color][url="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/as-will-listen-on-anyone-but-weeks.html"][color=#000000]possibly-available pitchers[/color][/url][color=#000000] like [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzagi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Gio Gonzalez[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] or [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cahiltr01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Trevor Cahill[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] worthy of moving Alonso.[/color] [color=#000000]The most logical match would appear to be Tampa Bay, who has a big hole at first base, lots of pitching and a need for a controllable young talent like Alonso. The Rays could offer [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/daviswa01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Wade Davis[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] or [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/niemaje01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Jeff Niemann[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000], though the Reds are more likely looking for a pitcher like [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/shielja02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]James Shields[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000]. (Obviously [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/priceda01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]David Price[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] and [/color][b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hellije01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"][color=#000000]Jeremy Hellickson[/color][/url][/b][color=#000000] are staying put.)[/color] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 You better lock Joey up long term first before trading Alonso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Starting Pitching? Arroyo, Vasquez, Bailey, Woods, Cueto, Leake and Chapman is already too many guys. The logical thing would be to say screw finding a reliever, put Chapman there. Honestly the Reds have a good young guy to put at every position right now. The only question mark is whether Heisy is good enough to play left field on an everyday basis. Votto has first, Phillips at second, SS is going to be a battle between the young guys. Janish is junk hitting and he should be gone. Fransisco will be taking over Rolen's spot soon, and Mesoraco will be the new catcher. Bruce, Stubbs, and Heisey in the outfield is a great defensive outfield plus they can hit. I just don't see any needs right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Who's this Vasquez character? Quite honestly I don't know how a Reds fan can't objectively look at the roster and see that upgrades can and should be made in a lot of places. Starting pitching is a big question mark in terms of consistency from everyone not named Cueto. They should most certainly try to go out and land a really good starter if one is available...it would galvanize the rest of the rotation, I think. Arroyo needs to be gone, his stuff is junk. Volquez needs to get his mind right. Cueto is a stud. Leake and Wood had some dropoff (especially Wood) from their rookie seasons...maybe they improve, but maybe not. Cordero is a goner. We need better hitting from our outfield positions. Etcetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 We could definitely use upgrades, but with the team already basically admitting there is no way they can re-sign Joey, letting go the best prospect we have to take over for him seems foolish. Sounds like they are in win now mode, which will leave us with another bad team when Joey leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='BengalRep85-9' timestamp='1322290278' post='1067119'] You better lock Joey up long term first before trading Alonso [/quote] THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1322313490' post='1067129'] Who's this Vasquez character? Quite honestly I don't know how a Reds fan can't objectively look at the roster and see that upgrades can and should be made in a lot of places. Starting pitching is a big question mark in terms of consistency from everyone not named Cueto. They should most certainly try to go out and land a really good starter if one is available...it would galvanize the rest of the rotation, I think. Arroyo needs to be gone, his stuff is junk. Volquez needs to get his mind right. Cueto is a stud. Leake and Wood had some dropoff (especially Wood) from their rookie seasons...maybe they improve, but maybe not. Cordero is a goner. We need better hitting from our outfield positions. Etcetera. [/quote] Volquez...damn it I was up for like 24 hours straight when I wrote that. The problems with Leake and Wood is they weren't used to those 162 game seasons. They tired out at the end. Stubbs started to get better at the end of the season, and Bruce had his best season yet. Heisey is just now starting to get in the grove of playing in the major leagues. I think the Reds are also waiting to see how Chapman does as a starter in Winter ball before making any major moves. To be honest with you, I wish the Reds would have made the Votto for Bautista trade last year. That way they could have put Bautista in the outfield and used Alonso at first base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I don't remember that. Was there a Votto for Bautista trade being offered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1322328587' post='1067163'] I don't remember that. Was there a Votto for Bautista trade being offered? [/quote] Yeah at one point in the season is was rumored a straight up trade for them. [url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/789997-mlb-trade-deadline-rumored-votto-bautista-deal-would-have-worked-for-the-reds"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/789997-mlb-trade-deadline-rumored-votto-bautista-deal-would-have-worked-for-the-reds[/url] This link mentions a pitcher as part of the deal too but I heard it was straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1322328091' post='1067161'] Volquez...damn it I was up for like 24 hours straight when I wrote that. The problems with Leake and Wood is they weren't used to those 162 game seasons. They tired out at the end. Stubbs started to get better at the end of the season, and Bruce had his best season yet. Heisey is just now starting to get in the grove of playing in the major leagues. I think the Reds are also waiting to see how Chapman does as a starter in Winter ball before making any major moves. To be honest with you, I wish the Reds would have made the Votto for Bautista trade last year. That way they could have put Bautista in the outfield and used Alonso at first base. [/quote] Wood was just bad all year last year, wasn't an issue of tiring out. Stubbs is a weak spot that should be replaced (possibly with Heisey). Chapman was pulled from winter ball and no one's said why. There are major questions with him right now. We have a lot of pitchers but besides Cueto and Leake, they're all just average. This team needs another top pitcher... Shields for Alonso would be great but we'd have to throw in more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Chapman as a starter is far, FAR from a reality too. Can this kid with the rocket arm continue to reliably get through one or (gasp!) even TWO innings of work before we anoint him as a starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I think some of you guys are being overly hard on these guys. Wood almost threw a perfect game this year. Yeah he was a little inconsistent, but it was his first year. Leake just tired out as the season wore on. He's got all the tools. Volquez really needs to step it up and come back. Bailey needs to avoid injuries. Cueto is a machine and needs to work on conditioning. Chapman really should just stay a close in my mind. Don't forget some other guys too like Darryl Thompson. They say when he is healthy he has lights out stuff. So how you going to give up on Stubbs? He has 20 HR power, great defensive skills, and can steal 40+ bases a year. He just needs to be like 7th in the order and have Phillips at leadoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1322360632' post='1067209'] I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Chapman as a starter is far, FAR from a reality too. Can this kid with the rocket arm continue to reliably get through one or (gasp!) even TWO innings of work before we anoint him as a starter? [/quote] Chapman has been a starter his entire life. This is the only season he has come off of the bench. It should be interesting to see how he pitches from a starters standpoint as he has been so hit or miss off of hte bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1322290473' post='1067120'] Starting Pitching? Arroyo, Vasquez, Bailey, Woods, Cueto, Leake and Chapman is already too many guys. The logical thing would be to say screw finding a reliever, put Chapman there. [/quote] [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1322361930' post='1067212'] Chapman really should just stay a close in my mind. [/quote] Assuming the word "closer" in your second quote, these two statements aren't jibing for me. Yeah, yeah, I'm a nitpicker. [quote name='Nati Ice' timestamp='1322364456' post='1067229'] [b]Chapman has been a starter his entire life[/b]. This is the only season he has come off of the bench. It should be interesting to see how he pitches from a starters standpoint as he has been so hit or miss off of hte bench. [/quote] I know...but not in major league baseball...and frankly, some of his relief efforts have been less than inspiring towards that end. WAY less than inspiring, even. His control is pretty out there a lot of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Yeah I meant closer. I would take Chapman 8 days out of the week over Cordero as the closer. When they didn't offer him arbitration I plastered the walls with my unborn kids. I am so glad to see him go I am stuck with a permanent smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Not Alonso related but another possible trade the Reds could be involved in. [quote] ESPN's Buster Olney reports that the Halos have intensified their search for a catcher, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says they have their eye on [b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hanigry01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"]Ryan Hanigan[/url][/b] of the Reds [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1322361930' post='1067212'] I think some of you guys are being overly hard on these guys. Wood almost threw a perfect game this year. Yeah he was a little inconsistent, but it was his first year. Leake just tired out as the season wore on. He's got all the tools. Volquez really needs to step it up and come back. Bailey needs to avoid injuries. Cueto is a machine and needs to work on conditioning. Chapman really should just stay a close in my mind. Don't forget some other guys too like Darryl Thompson. They say when he is healthy he has lights out stuff. So how you going to give up on Stubbs? He has 20 HR power, great defensive skills, and can steal 40+ bases a year. He just needs to be like 7th in the order and have Phillips at leadoff. [/quote] I feel like you've been in a coma and missed the 2011 season. You're talking about 2010 for Wood/Leake. Volquez will never stop being wild.... he was good for a half season. You should trust a whole career and not just a half season. Stubbs hasn't progressed at all and may be getting worse. Speed doesn't mean much when you can't get on base. He had the 3rd most strikeouts ever this year. At least when Dunn K'd like crazy he was putting up 40hrs. Trade Stubbs while he's still got value due to his "potential" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1322453011' post='1068575'] I feel like you've been in a coma and missed the 2011 season. You're talking about 2010 for Wood/Leake. Volquez will never stop being wild.... he was good for a half season. You should trust a whole career and not just a half season. Stubbs hasn't progressed at all and may be getting worse. Speed doesn't mean much when you can't get on base. He had the 3rd most strikeouts ever this year. At least when Dunn K'd like crazy he was putting up 40hrs. Trade Stubbs while he's still got value due to his "potential" [/quote] Stubbs had a bad year, but he has WAY too much upside to give up on. Could have just been a sophomore slump, and we've got him cheap for a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 yea no way you give up on Stubbs yet. He's one of your best defenders, and didn't he lead the team in runs scored? He did for a good portion of the year. Stubbs just needs to learn to bunt better and not try and be such a power hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1322498162' post='1068764'] yea no way you give up on Stubbs yet. He's one of your best defenders, and didn't he lead the team in runs scored? He did for a good portion of the year. Stubbs just needs to learn to bunt better and not try and be such a power hitter. [/quote] A few things I would like to see Stubbs do. 1. Bunt at least once a series (after spending the spring working on his bunting), or even once a game if he can get good at it. 2. Let himself do the home run swing one AB a game. 3. Shorten up his swing a lot with 2 strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1322453011' post='1068575'] Speed doesn't mean much when you can't get on base. [/quote] What? Sure it does, just ask Deion Sand.....oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1322515894' post='1068881'] A few things I would like to see Stubbs do. 1. Bunt at least once a series (after spending the spring working on his bunting), or even once a game if he can get good at it. 2. Let himself do the home run swing one AB a game. 3. Shorten up his swing a lot with 2 strikes. [/quote] I'd love to see Stubbs do that. He'd be a much better player if he did. I'm not completely giving up on him, I just think he'd get good value in a trade and Heisey could easily replace his stats. This is assuming we upgrade LF somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 [quote]MLB.com's Mark Sheldon doesn't see the [b]Reds [/b]moving [b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alonsyo01.shtml"]Yonder Alonso[/url] [/b]for anything less than a top-end starter.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 [quote][list] [*]Cincinnati CEO Bob Castellini doesn’t want to trade Votto and appears to believe an extension is possible. However, some Reds owners believe the team should explore trades for the 2010 NL MVP. Votto is under contract through 2013. [*]Rival GMs consider [b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alonsyo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"]Yonder Alonso[/url][/b] a one-dimensional player, not someone who could be a centerpiece in a trade for a starting pitcher like [b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/shielja02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"]James Shields[/url][/b] or [b][url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzagi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker"]Gio Gonzalez[/url][/b]. [/list] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Saw on Hardballtalk.com that he's lost 18 pounds in prep for a move to the outfield. Also the Rockies signed Ramon Hernandez. Best of luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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