CHANGES I HOPE TO SEE NEXT SEASON

[NASTYNATI]

With the Bengals no longer in control of their playoff destiny and a surprise season coming to a close, I've given some thought to a few changes I would like to see made going in to next season.

1. [b]Paul Alexander needs to be replaced:[/b] While it is up to the players to execute, the pre-snap penalties and overall performance of this offensive line over the last 5-6 seasons has been below average at best. I don't feel like P.A. is a bad coach, but feel that like Brat his philosophy may be "dated". Someone mentioned they wanted him fired in another thread but attributed his staying around to Marvin. I believe that he still has a job due to Mike Browns loyalty and friendship, not Marvin's. Hopefully this is the next personnel change made here.

2. [b]Jon Hayes needs to be replaced:[/b] The Coffman project and Gresham's slow development are reason enough to move on. With Gresham's skill set he should be #2 in targets behind A.J. Green. He is a huge mismatch all over the field yet he might see 2-3 targets a game. The only reason I can think he isn't being used more is due to lack of development / understanding of the offense.

3. [b]Darren Simmons might need to be replaced:[/b] The lack of a return game for as long as I can remember is unacceptable. The Bengals have had one of the best kick coverage units in football for years but its the other side of ST that leads me to the belief that it might be time to part ways. I don't know if it is his decision or Marvin's decision to keep Tate out there but he isn't the first return man that has struggled here and certainly wont be the last unless a change is made. I do not expect to have a Devin Hester on this team, because talent like that only comes along once in a blue moon. But there are guys like Randal Cobb out there that return with no fear. This team desperately needs someone like this given the field position battles the Bengals are usually a part of.


4. [b]Upgrades at both LG and RG:[/b] Most of us should be fairly confident that Bobbie Williams doesn't make a return next season (I believe he is in the last year of his deal) and Nate Livings sucks but for some reason P.A. has a man crush on him. The Bengals have been weak at LG since Steinbach left. In a perfect world I would like to see an early round LG. This area of the O-line really needs an upgrade.

5. [b]Secondary:[/b] Aside from Leon Hall and Reggie Nelson, the secondary is below average and desperately needs upgrading. The injury bug has plagued this unit for years yet the same names keep resurfacing. The project players need to be cut and replacements brought in. I hope a legit corner opposite Leon is addressed this offseason. DEPTH, DEPTH, DEPTH

6. [b]Linebackers:[/b] Sign Thomas Howard long term and draft depth here. Rivers might be gone and rightfully so. He has done nothing to show he is worthy of his draft position and unless he is willing to stick around for a bargain price let him walk. He is a bust in my opinion. DEPTH, DEPTH, DEPTH

7. [b]Running Backs:[/b] Benson likely wont be back because the Bengals likely wont give him a long term deal. B.Scott really never found his place in this offense. I cant think of one time this season the offense hasn't lost a step when he has checked in the game. Marvin is forcing the issue. There have been several instances where Ced has been running well and has been taken out to try and get B. Scott touches. This has been one of my biggest "Pet Peeves" this season. If Ced is running well, leave him in the damn game. I would love Trent Richardson and if the Bengals and Raiders keep losing he might still be there when they pick. Thank god he didn't win the Heisman. I believe this lowered his value just a bit.

8. [b]Wide Receivers:[/b] Simpson and Caldwell should be gone. "Weed gate" has clearly effected Simpson, and Caldwell has far too many mental lapses and drops. I would love the Bengals to look at Tommy Streeter (6-5, 215) of Miami in the 3-4th round (T.Mcshay has him projected here). This guy is a huge Redzone target, blocks well in the run game and really emerged this season as a legit deep threat. Good all around receiver. With Shipley and Hawkins sharing the slot, Gresham hopefully taking over the middle of the field, AJ unstoppable and a guy like Streeter in the Redzone the WR corps could be one of the best in the league.


I am incredibly excited about the young talent on this team and cannot wait to see what the future holds. That said, what would you like to see done in the off season?

[BengalTillIDie]

I like your post and agree with most of it but unfortunately I think Mike B will not allow a change with Alexander, Simmons, Hayes or any of the other coaches as long as they are under contract. Also, I think it is wishful thinking to believe Hall will ever be back at 100% after suffering an achilles tear. Two new corners need to be brought in since it doesn't look like we have any on the roster that are true number 1's. A real shame that one of the strengths of this defense were the corners and now they are a liability. Also, either it is talent or coaching but none of our DT's really gets any push up the middle so we really need a major upgrade there. Peko, Atkins, Sims, Fanene are all average talent and we need better. Average shows itself when we play average teams and when we play the playoff caliber teams. Pass rush from inside was absolutely non existent the last two weeks. Maualuga is not the answer at MLB, can't cover anybody and is poor at pursuit. Unless the RB runs right at him he usually gets caught up in the wash, over pursues or wiffs. Shame that we got the worst of Cushing, Matthews and Maualuga.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' timestamp='1323706790' post='1074439']
I like your post and agree with most of it but unfortunately I think Mike B will not allow a change with Alexander, Simmons, Hayes or any of the other coaches as long as they are under contract. Also, I think it is wishful thinking to believe Hall will ever be back at 100% after suffering an achilles tear. Two new corners need to be brought in since it doesn't look like we have any on the roster that are true number 1's. A real shame that one of the strengths of this defense were the corners and now they are a liability. Also, either it is talent or coaching but none of our DT's really gets any push up the middle so we really need a major upgrade there. Peko, Atkins, Sims, Fanene are all average talent and we need better. Average shows itself when we play average teams and when we play the playoff caliber teams. Pass rush from inside was absolutely non existent the last two weeks. Maualuga is not the answer at MLB, can't cover anybody and is poor at pursuit. Unless the RB runs right at him he usually gets caught up in the wash, over pursues or wiffs. Shame that we got the worst of Cushing, Matthews and Maualuga.
[/quote]

We got Rey about where he should have been looking back. The other two guys went before him because they were better players even though they didn't play MLB. That said, Rey is no better his year than Dhani was last year.

I don't think the problem is on the D line. Doesn't mean I wouldn't mind a stud DE but we have bigger fish to fry. With a healthy Dunlap we can and do pressure the QB. Problem is we don't have the players to cover long enough to effectively blitz. Secondary is killing us which should be NO surprise.

Zimmer can only accomplish so much with backup talent at almost every secondary position.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' timestamp='1323706790' post='1074439']
I like your post and agree with most of it but unfortunately I think Mike B will not allow a change with Alexander, Simmons, Hayes or any of the other coaches as long as they are under contract. Also, I think it is wishful thinking to believe Hall will ever be back at 100% after suffering an achilles tear. Two new corners need to be brought in since it doesn't look like we have any on the roster that are true number 1's. A real shame that one of the strengths of this defense were the corners and now they are a liability. Also, either it is talent or coaching but none of our DT's really gets any push up the middle so we really need a major upgrade there. [b]Peko, Atkins, Sims, Fanene [/b] are all average talent and we need better. Average shows itself when we play average teams and when we play the playoff caliber teams. Pass rush from inside was absolutely non existent the last two weeks. Maualuga is not the answer at MLB, can't cover anybody and is poor at pursuit. Unless the RB runs right at him he usually gets caught up in the wash, over pursues or wiffs. Shame that we got the worst of Cushing, Matthews and Maualuga.
[/quote]

The Bengals had 4 or more sacks yesterday. You call Atkins average and he's leading the NFL in sacks for a DT. Maualuga had 2 forced fumbles and a recovery yesterday. Fanene has 3 sacks as a backup, and Peko is near the top of the league in tackles for DT's.

[JC]

I got to think Jon Hayes is done. Gresh hasn't been playing up to par of what he could be and it doesn't help Gronk just caught touchdown 15 yesterday. We need some new blood teaching our tight ends.

I wouldn't put all the eggs in Leon's basket either. He wasn't playing too well before he got hurt. Seems like the loss of Joseph really hurt him. Nate's been good and can play some nickel, but we really need to hit on the corner in the first round. Revis and Nnamdi both went in the back half of the first round. Let's hope we get lucky.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1323709989' post='1074455']
I got to think Jon Hayes is done. Gresh hasn't been playing up to par of what he could be and it doesn't help Gronk just caught touchdown 15 yesterday. We need some new blood teaching our tight ends.

[/quote]

I'm not opposed to upgrading Hayes, but I don't know that Gronk is a good comparison (though I get why you did it). Gronk is in a completely different style of offense with a much better QB and a more experience OC.

[texbengal]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' timestamp='1323705237' post='1074428']
With the Bengals no longer in control of their playoff destiny and a surprise season coming to a close, I've given some thought to a few changes I would like to see made going in to next season.

1. [b]Paul Alexander needs to be replaced:[/b] While it is up to the players to execute, the pre-snap penalties and overall performance of this offensive line over the last 5-6 seasons has been below average at best. I don't feel like P.A. is a bad coach, but feel that like Brat his philosophy may be "dated". Someone mentioned they wanted him fired in another thread but attributed his staying around to Marvin. I believe that he still has a job due to Mike Browns loyalty and friendship, not Marvin's. Hopefully this is the next personnel change made here.

2. [b]Jon Hayes needs to be replaced:[/b] The Coffman project and Gresham's slow development are reason enough to move on. With Gresham's skill set he should be #2 in targets behind A.J. Green. He is a huge mismatch all over the field yet he might see 2-3 targets a game. The only reason I can think he isn't being used more is due to lack of development / understanding of the offense.

3. [b]Darren Simmons might need to be replaced:[/b] The lack of a return game for as long as I can remember is unacceptable. The Bengals have had one of the best kick coverage units in football for years but its the other side of ST that leads me to the belief that it might be time to part ways. I don't know if it is his decision or Marvin's decision to keep Tate out there but he isn't the first return man that has struggled here and certainly wont be the last unless a change is made. I do not expect to have a Devin Hester on this team, because talent like that only comes along once in a blue moon. But there are guys like Randal Cobb out there that return with no fear. This team desperately needs someone like this given the field position battles the Bengals are usually a part of.


4. [b]Upgrades at both LG and RG:[/b] Most of us should be fairly confident that Bobbie Williams doesn't make a return next season (I believe he is in the last year of his deal) and Nate Livings sucks but for some reason P.A. has a man crush on him. The Bengals have been weak at LG since Steinbach left. In a perfect world I would like to see an early round LG. This area of the O-line really needs an upgrade.

5. [b]Secondary:[/b] Aside from Leon Hall and Reggie Nelson, the secondary is below average and desperately needs upgrading. The injury bug has plagued this unit for years yet the same names keep resurfacing. The project players need to be cut and replacements brought in. I hope a legit corner opposite Leon is addressed this offseason. DEPTH, DEPTH, DEPTH

6. [b]Linebackers:[/b] Sign Thomas Howard long term and draft depth here. Rivers might be gone and rightfully so. He has done nothing to show he is worthy of his draft position and unless he is willing to stick around for a bargain price let him walk. He is a bust in my opinion. DEPTH, DEPTH, DEPTH

7. [b]Running Backs:[/b] Benson likely wont be back because the Bengals likely wont give him a long term deal. B.Scott really never found his place in this offense. I cant think of one time this season the offense hasn't lost a step when he has checked in the game. Marvin is forcing the issue. There have been several instances where Ced has been running well and has been taken out to try and get B. Scott touches. This has been one of my biggest "Pet Peeves" this season. If Ced is running well, leave him in the damn game. I would love Trent Richardson and if the Bengals and Raiders keep losing he might still be there when they pick. Thank god he didn't win the Heisman. I believe this lowered his value just a bit.

8. [b]Wide Receivers:[/b] Simpson and Caldwell should be gone. "Weed gate" has clearly effected Simpson, and Caldwell has far too many mental lapses and drops. I would love the Bengals to look at Tommy Streeter (6-5, 215) of Miami in the 3-4th round (T.Mcshay has him projected here). This guy is a huge Redzone target, blocks well in the run game and really emerged this season as a legit deep threat. Good all around receiver. With Shipley and Hawkins sharing the slot, Gresham hopefully taking over the middle of the field, AJ unstoppable and a guy like Streeter in the Redzone the WR corps could be one of the best in the league.


I am incredibly excited about the young talent on this team and cannot wait to see what the future holds. That said, what would you like to see done in the off season?
[/quote]

Agree with several of your points, but not on others...

I'm not a huge fan of Alexander, but I think the current OL suffers more from a lack of talent at the G position than from Alexander's coaching. Under his coaching, Cook has developed into a solid center, Andre has really improved, and even with Livings and Bobbie - limited athletes at G - the team has protected Dalton well. And the running game, without much speed from Benson, has been serviceable. You're correct in pointing out that Gs need to be upgraded, but I don't think Alexander has done a bad job.

Jon Hayes is just OK... I think Gresham needs to focus better, but I think he's gotten better as both a blocker and a receiver. He still needs to be more consistent as a pass catcher. Not sure if Coffman will ever be anything... he's just not strong enough, it appears. I do like the depth, whether it's Lee or Cochart.. or Bo Scaife, for that matter.

Actually, I think Simmons is one of their best coaches. The return game hasn't been great, but statistically, they're in the top half of the league on returns, and other than the Brown PR for a TD last week, I think the coverage teams have been very good... and the kicking game has been good, too. I'm less sold on Huber than I am on Nugent, but both have improved and have become very reliable. Clark Harris is money on snaps.

I think everyone agrees that DB needs an upgrade. If he can get his head out of his ass and stay out of trouble, Adam Jones can play, and play well. I don't think Clements should start next year... he represents good depth, but I don't think he's got the speed to stay with guys any more. I hope Hall comes back 100%, but with a torn Achilles, that is far from a certainty. As such, they definitely need upgrading... same with S, where I think Reggie Nelson could be an answer, but Crocker isn't, as a starter. Hard to say how the young guys will do (Sands, Mays, Ghee, etc.), but this should be an area of focus. At LB, I think they have some talent, they just need to get some guys back to see what they have (Muck, Rivers, Moch). I'm less concerned about LB than I am about DB.

At RB, I like how Ced runs with getting YAC, but not sure how much he has left. Scott, to me, is not a feature back... he's a good complementary guy. I like Michael Bush a lot; he's shown he can play well as a feature back, and he's a better receiver than Benson, without the added knuckleheadedness. They need an upgrade... and at WR, I think Caldwell is gone. I had high hopes, but he's just not consistent enough for me. Simpson I could see coming back, but again, consistency is his biggest hindrance. He's got a ton of physical ability, and it sounds like he's a hard worker and good locker room guy.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1323710414' post='1074459']


Actually, I think Simmons is one of their best coaches. The return game hasn't been great, but statistically, they're in the top half of the league on returns, and other than the Brown PR for a TD last week, I think the coverage teams have been very good... and the kicking game has been good, too. I'm less sold on Huber than I am on Nugent, but both have improved and have become very reliable. Clark Harris is money on snaps.

[/quote]


blocking on punt returns has been an issue for more than 5 years. It's not just Tate. The same problems were there when Cosby was back there, and Ratliff before him.

[BengalTillIDie]

Again, stats are great when you look at the whole body of work which includes against the average and below average teams which we are seeing more of than a few of this year. How many did Atkins or any of the DTs have yesterday and last week? I have no problem with the DEs, except for Dunlap not being able to play which is really hurting us, but we get no push from the DTs against the quality teams. Granted our secondary is banged up and below NFL average but Yates had way too much time as did Roethlisberger last week. And if you really think Maualuga has played well then you need to go back and watch his performance against Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Yes I'll give you he played well yesterday but what about the rest of the year and in the big games when we need it?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' timestamp='1323711228' post='1074467']
Again, stats are great when you look at the whole body of work which includes against the average and below average teams which we are seeing more of than a few of this year. How many did Atkins or any of the DTs have yesterday and last week? I have no problem with the DEs, except for Dunlap not being able to play which is really hurting us, but we get no push from the DTs against the quality teams. Granted our secondary is banged up and below NFL average but Yates had way too much time as did Roethlisberger last week. And if you really think Maualuga has played well then you need to go back and watch his performance against Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Yes I'll give you he played well yesterday but what about the rest of the year and in the big games when we need it?
[/quote]


so because atkins and peko didn't have any sacks yesterday they are average?

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' timestamp='1323711228' post='1074467']
Again, stats are great when you look at the whole body of work which includes against the average and below average teams which we are seeing more of than a few of this year. How many did Atkins or any of the DTs have yesterday and last week? I have no problem with the DEs, except for Dunlap not being able to play which is really hurting us, but we get no push from the DTs against the quality teams. Granted our secondary is banged up and below NFL average but Yates had way too much time as did Roethlisberger last week. And if you really think Maualuga has played well then you need to go back and watch his performance against Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Yes I'll give you he played well yesterday but what about the rest of the year and in the big games when we need it?
[/quote]
4.5 of Atkins 7 sacks have come against teams with winning records

[JC]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1323710375' post='1074457']


I'm not opposed to upgrading Hayes, but I don't know that Gronk is a good comparison (though I get why you did it). Gronk is in a completely different style of offense with a much better QB and a more experience OC.
[/quote]
Gresh has never had one 100 yard game in his career. They both play very similar roles in there offenses. Gronk is on a whole nother level than Jermaine. Not sure how its not a fair comparison. Only difference is the qb. Is one qb a 10+ touchdown difference? I dont think so. Gresh has progressed how he should have at this point. He's barely getting 5 targets a game.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1323711772' post='1074475']
Gresh has never had one 100 yard game in his career. They both play very similar roles in there offenses. Gronk is on a whole nother level than Jermaine. Not sure how its not a fair comparison. Only difference is the qb. Is one qb a 10+ touchdown difference? I dont think so. Gresh has progressed how he should have at this point. He's barely getting 5 targets a game.
[/quote]


I wouldn't agree about similar roles. Gronk is a much bigger target in the pats offense. The Bengals use Gresham differently (and I'm not saying that's a good thing). And yes, Dalton vs Brady is a BIG difference. You're talking about a rookie vs. a top 10, maybe top 5 all time QB. You also have to factor in that Gronk is in an established offense that is a well oiled machine with an OC who has been with the Patriots for 5 seasons. Gresh is on an offense with a rookie OC and a new system that the entire offense is still learning.

I'm not saying the Bengals are using Gresham right, or enough, but I just think Gresh and Gronk are in two entirely different situations right now.

[Jamie_B]

Good list but I wouldnt hold my breath on coaches getting replaced.

I think if we can fix the 2ndary sans Hall and Nelson, maybe resign Lawson who is playing better as of late (though I'm not sure who's responsibilities covering the TEs were yesterday)

Simpson I could go either way on, he has the potential to be a good #2 but he's inconsistent. If they can get him for cheap...

Ced can want a long term contract all he wants, he wont get it, and not from us. He had a good day yesterday but the running game this season has been mediocre, plus he's coming up on 30... we should get younger here.



My list

Get a CB and RB with the first two first round picks
Get a G in FA, and draft one with the 2nd.
Resign Simpson on the Cheap, draft another WR to take Caldwell's place
Try to resign Simms, if you cant use a draft pick on a big body quick feet guy

Fill out for depth.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1323710757' post='1074460']


blocking on punt returns has been an issue for more than 5 years. It's not just Tate. The same problems were there when Cosby was back there, and Ratliff before him.
[/quote]


Completely agree, however at the same time Tate makes some poor decisions on running lanes.

[mullichicken25]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1323714284' post='1074484']


My list

Get a CB and RB with the first two first round picks
Get a G in FA, and draft one with the 2nd.
Resign Simpson on the Cheap, draft another WR to take Caldwell's place
Try to resign Simms, if you cant use a draft pick on a big body quick feet guy

Fill out for depth.
[/quote]

agreed on everything

however, im not too sure about top prospects this year, but i'd be up for taking a S instead of CB if hes a better player....but eitherway, our secondary needs to be upgraded in the 1st round

[cincity]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1323711772' post='1074475']
Gresh has never had one 100 yard game in his career. They both play very similar roles in there offenses. Gronk is on a whole nother level than Jermaine. Not sure how its not a fair comparison. Only difference is the qb. Is one qb a 10+ touchdown difference? I dont think so. Gresh has progressed how he should have at this point. He's barely getting 5 targets a game.
[/quote]

When you have Wes Welker demanding double coverage and clearing out the middle of the field, and Tom Brady with all the time in the world to throw.. That's probably more than enough of a difference. Wes provides so much more clear out space for Gronk.

[cincity]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1323714284' post='1074484'] My list Get a CB and RB with the first two first round picks Get a G in FA, and draft one with the 2nd. Resign Simpson on the Cheap, draft another WR to take Caldwell's place Try to resign Simms, if you cant use a draft pick on a big body quick feet guy Fill out for depth.[/quote]

I totally support all of these, and you and i very rarely agree on things. lol

Our first 3 picks should be used on a G, CB, and RB.. In no particular order.

[Jason]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1323715801' post='1074492']

When you have Wes Welker demanding double coverage and clearing out the middle of the field, and Tom Brady with all the time in the world to throw.. That's probably more than enough of a difference. Wes provides so much more clear out space for Gronk.
[/quote]

Yeah, I think having Shipley back next year (not to mention another year, and full offseason for Dalton) will go a LONG way with Gresham's numbers.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1323715929' post='1074493']

I totally support all of these, and you and i very rarely agree on things. lol

Our first 3 picks should be used on a G, CB, and RB.. In no particular order.
[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1323715986' post='1074494']

Yeah, I think having Shipley back next year (not to mention another year, and full offseason for Dalton) will go a LONG way with Gresham's numbers.
[/quote]


I hope I'm wrong, but I'm a bit concern Shipley is too brittle for the NFL.

[snarkster]

Quality is pretty deep @ CB in this year's draft. I would expect one of the firsts or our 2nd-rounder to go towards a corner. If we ge a 3rd round comp, i wouldn't be opposed to taking a second one (small school sleeper maybe?) or a FA.

[cincity]

I think he lost his heart... But I've stated that Adam SEEMS to have his ish together, so Adam and and Hall with a top draft pick should be pretty solid. Add Nate for depth, Jennings has to go!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1323716656' post='1074501']
[b]I think he lost his heart[/b]... But I've stated that Adam SEEMS to have his ish together, so Adam and and Hall with a top draft pick should be pretty solid. Add Nate for depth, Jennings has to go!
[/quote]

who?

[Bengals1181]

I think you do what you need to, to re-sign Fanene, Rucker, Lawson, Simpson, Sims, Pacman and Nelson. Go after someone like Bush in free agency to fill the RB position. I'd be ok with Benson back if the guard spots are upgraded. Focus on the oline and secondary in the draft while building depth at other spots.