my impression is the trade is just valdez for horst




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[url="https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Reds"][s]#[/s][b]Reds[/b][/url] acquire from Phi Wilson Valdez for Jeremy Horst, Nick Masset signs 2-year deal, IF/OF Willie Harris signs minor deal with ST invite.[/font]

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[url="https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Reds"][s]#[/s][b]Reds[/b][/url] today acquired from Phillies IF Wilson Valdez in exchange for minor league LHP Jeremy Horst[/font]

[url="https://twitter.com/#!/TomGroeschen/status/162279881802137601"]1 minute ago [/url][size=2][url="https://twitter.com/#"][/url][/size][/indent][/size]

Is this a good deal? I know nothing about Valdez and his stats don't look all that great

From the looks of these moves, the Reds are taking a handful of INF and throwing them at a dart board hoping one of them sticks.

I thought/hoped Masset would be gone after the big trades and signings in the pitching staff. He's too inconsistent. Either looks great or horrific on any given day.

[quote name='Hooky' timestamp='1327669524' post='1092502']
I thought/hoped Masset would be gone after the big trades and signings in the pitching staff. He's too inconsistent. Either looks great or horrific on any given day.
[/quote]

He's still young enough, and has enough upside to keep around. I think he's also still fairly cheap.

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1327670860' post='1092506']

He's still young enough, and has enough upside to keep around. I think he's also still fairly cheap.
[/quote]

I agree. Plus he more be forced to be more consistent with the increased competition. And loved the Arredondo re-signing, BTW. I think they stole him. He looked like he was getting back to form last season.

My buddy from Philly told me he is their best sub infielder. He was slightly bothered they let him go.

Plus he can pitch.

Id rather have Francis starting over Arroyo, but unfortunately not gonna happen.

Id love a rotation of
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Leake
4. Bailey
5. Francis

Then again if Bronson can return to 2009-2010 bronson we'll be in pretty good shape, I just dont know if he can do it.

Looks like there is some smoke surrounding Oswalt and us.

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1328649844' post='1094599']
Looks like there is some smoke surrounding Oswalt and us.
[/quote]

I hope not...Bailey will have a better year then oswalt, mark my words. So unless you are getting rid of arroyo, which they wouldnt, I say no.

Id rather save the money and use it to fill a weakness before the trade deadline, maybe a LF or something.

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1328649844' post='1094599']
Looks like there is some smoke surrounding Oswalt and us.
[/quote]

I don't like the idea of getting rid of Bailey just so we can pay Oswalt 10 million. We simply don't have room for him in the rotation.

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1328665427' post='1094628']

I hope not...Bailey will have a better year then oswalt, mark my words. So unless you are getting rid of arroyo, which they wouldnt, I say no.

Id rather save the money and use it to fill a weakness before the trade deadline, maybe a LF or something.
[/quote]

I don't think they could get rid of Arroyo if they wanted to. They're locked in due to the horrible terms of the contract

[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1328665619' post='1094630']

I don't like the idea of getting rid of Bailey just so we can pay Oswalt 10 million. We simply don't have room for him in the rotation.
[/quote]

The way Oswalt has pitched at Cincinnati in his career, he could go 20-1 with a 1.3 era. That is exaggerated of coarse, but he has been a Reds killer. If you can't beat'm, join'm.

They won't sign Oswalt if it costs $10M.

And while I don't want to get rid of Bailey to sign Oswalt (I think they need a 6th starter) I don't think I can say for sure one will have a better year than the other.

If you can get Oswalt for 6-7 mil without getting rid of Homer then id maybe consider it. And then hope arroyo gets hurt so you can go with a rotation of cueto, latos, oswalt, leake, and bailey.

But it would be more likely they would move bailey to the bullpen or something.

Im a big bailey fan, and if it means essentially giving up on bailey to get oswalt, ill be disappointed.

With that being said, maybe they could get a top young LF for Bailey, and if you could do that id be for it probably.

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1328669950' post='1094648']
If you can get Oswalt for 6-7 mil without getting rid of Homer then id maybe consider it. And then hope arroyo gets hurt so you can go with a rotation of cueto, latos, oswalt, leake, and bailey.

But it would be more likely they would move bailey to the bullpen or something.

Im a big bailey fan, and if it means essentially giving up on bailey to get oswalt, ill be disappointed.

With that being said, maybe they could get a top young LF for Bailey, and if you could do that id be for it probably.
[/quote]

Honestly, I think there is a LOT more trade value in Chapman. I'm not sure how much we get out of Chapman before his contract runs out (not even sure when that is) but I'm sure someone would be willing to give up a couple of prospects for him.

I just read that the Reds also signed starting lefty Jeff Francis to a minor league deal with an invite to spring training. Francis was a quality starter for the Rockies before moving over to the Royals last year. I doubt he can break through the rotation but it is a little bit of insurance for a long season. The guy can eat innings and turn it over to the bullpen.

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1328743617' post='1094794']

Honestly, I think there is a LOT more trade value in Chapman. I'm not sure how much we get out of Chapman before his contract runs out (not even sure when that is) but I'm sure someone would be willing to give up a couple of prospects for him.
[/quote]

trading chapman doesn't give you a space in the rotation for Oswalt though.

I would explore trading him though if he does have a lot of value. I'm not confident they're going to succeed turning him into a starter and think he'll spend most of the year in AAA anyway.

[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1328749360' post='1094819']

trading chapman doesn't give you a space in the rotation for Oswalt though.

I would explore trading him though if he does have a lot of value. I'm not confident they're going to succeed turning him into a starter and think he'll spend most of the year in AAA anyway.
[/quote]

I don't want to trade to make space for Oswalt. I want to add Oswalt so we have a 6th starter. If you trade Bailey you don't really have that anymore. How often have we made it through a year with 5 starters? Never?

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1328750020' post='1094821']

I don't want to trade to make space for Oswalt. I want to add Oswalt so we have a 6th starter. If you trade Bailey you don't really have that anymore. How often have we made it through a year with 5 starters? Never?
[/quote]

What are you gonna do with the 6th starter that doesnt make the rotation? You cant send him to the minors...make him a bullpen guy?

Chapman is our 6th guy, starting in the minors. Hopefully he shows enough early on that we can bring him up and get 2.5 years of him starting before he is a FA.

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1328750255' post='1094822']

What are you gonna do with the 6th starter that doesnt make the rotation? You cant send him to the minors...[b]make him a bullpen guy[/b]?

Chapman is our 6th guy, starting in the minors. Hopefully he shows enough early on that we can bring him up and get 2.5 years of him starting before he is a FA.
[/quote]

Depends on who doesn't make the rotation. If Bailey and Leake have similar springs, you could send Leake down to AAA. If Leake is the clear winner, Bailey becomes the long man/6th starter.

Chapman has never started at the major league level, and was so so as a AAA starter in 2010. You can't really rely on him. At least as of now.

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1328755709' post='1094831']

Depends on who doesn't make the rotation. If Bailey and Leake have similar springs, you could send Leake down to AAA. If Leake is the clear winner, Bailey becomes the long man/6th starter.

Chapman has never started at the major league level, and was so so as a AAA starter in 2010. You can't really rely on him. At least as of now.
[/quote]

No way in hell Mike Leake should be in the minors. And I am big on homer this year, I think he should put a damn good number 4/5 guy and finally put it all together.

I think we have a good enough team to compete and should be in the playoff hunt by July. And if we arent, Roy wouldnt have changed that single handedly. Therefore lets wait till July, and if we are close to a championship caliber team we can trade for the missing piece, whether its LF, SP, etc.

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1328758671' post='1094839']

No way in hell Mike Leake should be in the minors. And I am big on homer this year, I think he should put a damn good number 4/5 guy and finally put it all together.

I think we have a good enough team to compete and should be in the playoff hunt by July. And if we arent, Roy wouldnt have changed that single handedly. Therefore lets wait till July, and if we are close to a championship caliber team we can trade for the missing piece, whether its LF, SP, etc.
[/quote]

I agree. I think Leake is easily our 3rd best guy and needs to stay in the rotation even if he struggles in the spring. He's consistently delivered when it counts.

I'd rather make Arroyo the long man, but I don't think it would be a good idea for him or Bailey to do that. I'm concerned about Bailey going on the DL again, but the 6th guy needs to be waiting in AAA not sitting on the bench just waiting for an injury. The 6th guy needs to be getting a full workload until he's needed.