Bill Polian on Sirius NFL Radio

[Oldcat]

Painter may or may not be anything, but the team totally screwed up any chance of him working out well with their 'pretend Payton will start in Preseason' followed by 'lets grab some old fart to start ahead of him'. If they had committed to Painter he might not have looked so lost when they had to throw him into the fire.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1328888246' post='1095124']

So he won 1 SuperBowl and a few conference championships in 25 yrs, I still think he's overrated.

[/quote]

Are you kidding me? A few? Just based on the Bills making it to the Super Bowl (and I guess you can blame Norwood missing kicks in two of them to lose on Polian) and Colts that is 6, yes 6, AFC championships and at least 2 other times they made it to the championship game.

I'd take that all day long.

Should he have put more into the defense? Definitely. But you're not going to keep a high-caliber, starter quality qb as a backup. They're going to be offered too much money elsewhere. Schaub, Cassel, naming two off the cuff.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1328909357' post='1095243']

Are you kidding me? A few? Just based on the Bills making it to the Super Bowl (and I guess you can blame Norwood missing kicks in two of them to lose on Polian) and Colts that is 6, yes 6, AFC championships and at least 2 other times they made it to the championship game.

I'd take that all day long.

Should he have put more into the defense? Definitely. But you're not going to keep a high-caliber, starter quality qb as a backup. They're going to be offered too much money elsewhere. Schaub, Cassel, naming two off the cuff.
[/quote]

Yeah, but the original teams got four years or so with each of those guys - and Cassel even cost nothing in terms of draft picks.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328907432' post='1095233']

Todd McShay had Painter as the top Senior QB in the draft. If you are talking about Sam Bradford, Mathew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman...they were under classmen. After that it doesn't matter what a guy was ranked prior to the draft when it comes to actual draft position. I didn't say he was the top selected Senior QB in the draft,[b] I said he was the top ranked Senior QB going into the draft, big difference.[/b] I can prove what I am saying. Watch the bottom of the screen in this clip and it shows Todd McShay ranks Curtis Painter as the top Senior QB in the up coming draft. At the 1:21 mark specifically.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSsetj_LAk[/media]
[/quote]

you should probably find better evidence. This is a video from prior to painter's senior season. Draft rankings made 7 months before the draft aren't worth anything. This isn't "going into the draft." It's before the college season even started.

I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter. [url="http://walterfootball.com/draft2009QB.php"]http://walterfootball.com/draft2009QB.php[/url]

And as mentioned, 5 were drafted ahead of him. white, mcgee, teel, brandstater and null.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328910755' post='1095251']

you should probably find better evidence. This is a video from prior to painter's senior season. Draft rankings made 7 months before the draft aren't worth anything. This isn't "going into the draft." It's before the college season even started.

I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter.

And as mentioned, 5 were drafted ahead of him. white, mcgee, teel, brandstater and null.
[/quote]


Ok I don't think it's a smart move to attack my evidence by saying you are smarter than Todd McShay and that ESPN isn't a network up to your standard. When you get invited to do talent evaluations on potential draft picks at the NFL draft, I'll raise your e-cred a bit, until then not so much.

As for the guys drafted ahead of Painter I'll explain why. Anyone worth their salt understands when a team is investing in a future starting quarterback and when they are just drafting a backup. When a team drafts a guy in like the first or second round, they do so when the potential of changing their offensive system to fit [b]his[/b] style of play in hopes to achieve maximum success. In Painter's draft class there was a bevy of great underslass quarterbacks (Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford) that were going to be counted on as future starting quarterbacks. These are the guys that made up the first couple rounds of the draft.

Now say a quarterback taken in the third round on, he more than likely isn't being counted on to be a starting quarterback, at least not right away, in the NFL. A team isn't going to go out of their way to change their system of offense to make it easier and maximize the potential of a backup. So what happens is, despite a guy's draft grade, teams start picking guys that fit their system best and have the attributes that they think will work best with their individual team. Painter just happened to get picked by the Colts who happen to run a pretty pass happy offense that is reliant on making a lot of play calls at the line of scrimmage. So Bill Polian, the same guy that drafted Frank Reich as a pretty damn good backup QB in Buffalo, drafted Painter in Indy. Bill Polian > you, nothing personal but it is what it is. I think the downfall with Painter came that he didn't get enough playing or practice time to learn how to make the adjustments at the line of scrimmage that Peyton has become such a wizard at. The Colts took for granted that just because he has been around the team it was something that could be learned holding a clipboard, and it can't.

So to summarize, first off Painter was ranked #1 as a Senior in his QG draft class, then he hurt his arm during his Senior season leading to a less than stellar season per Wikipedia:

[quote]In his last season as the Boilermakers' main starting quarterback, the fifth year senior struggled with the absence of injured [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_back"]running back[/url] Jaycen Taylor and the graduation of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Keller"]Dustin Keller[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Bryant"]Dorian Bryant[/url]. He hurt his throwing shoulder resulting in a 4–8 overall record and only appeared in 10 games with nine starts, while reserve quarterbacks, Justin Siller and Joey Elliot, stepped in his place. His top game on the season came against [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University"]Indiana[/url] in his last collegiate game, where he threw for five touchdowns, while completing 38 of 54 attempts with a total of 448 yards[/quote]

Finally Painter was drafted by perhaps the most prolific GM of our time to be a backup QB to perhaps the best QB of all time in Peyton Manning.

Bill Polian, ESPN, and Todd McShay > You. Nothing personal.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328924914' post='1095297']


Ok I don't think it's a smart move to attack my evidence by saying you are smarter than Todd McShay and that ESPN isn't a network up to your standard. When you get invited to do talent evaluations on potential draft picks at the NFL draft, I'll raise your e-cred a bit, until then not so much.

[/quote]

WTF... He said no such thing... He said the evidence you presented, was from so far before the draft that it wasn't relevant. The implication being that if you had something ranking prospects right before the draft the prospect rankings would be quite different than the ones you presented.

The first part of your post was so far out of left field and ridiculous that I didn't bother reading the rest of of it.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1328926581' post='1095304']

WTF... He said no such thing... He said the evidence you presented, was from so far before the draft that it wasn't relevant. The implication being that if you had something ranking prospects right before the draft the prospect rankings would be quite different than the ones you presented.

The first part of your post was so far out of left field and ridiculous that I didn't bother reading the rest of of it.
[/quote]

Todd McShay works for ESPN as part of their 'Scouts Inc.' division. Did you not read where he said, "I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter." ?

How is what I said out of left field. It's on bold print right there for you. I guess if you didn't read the rest I guess you also didn't see where I pointed out that during the rest of the season Painter received an injury to his throwing shoulder.

So do you make a habit of reading the first line of something then making an opinion based on it? No wonder Jaime put you in your place in another thread.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328924914' post='1095297']


Ok I don't think it's a smart move to attack my evidence by saying you are smarter than Todd McShay and that ESPN isn't a network up to your standard.
[/quote]

are you on crack?

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328926802' post='1095306']

Todd McShay works for ESPN as part of their 'Scouts Inc.' division. Did you not read where he said, [b]"I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter." ?[/b]

How is what I said out of left field. It's on bold print right there for you. I guess if you didn't read the rest I guess you also didn't see where I pointed out that during the rest of the season Painter received an injury to his throwing shoulder.

So do you make a habit of reading the first line of something then making an opinion based on it? No wonder Jaime put you in your place in another thread.
[/quote]

umm dude, I was talking about walterfootball.com.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328927745' post='1095308']

are you on crack?



umm dude, I was talking about walterfootball.com.
[/quote]


When did I mention Walterfootball?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328927874' post='1095310']


When did I mention Walterfootball?
[/quote]

I was. It seems I forgot to post the link I was referring to.


Regardless, citing Todd McShay's opinion in September 2008 does little to back up what reality was in April 2009. Your evidence wasn't "right before the draft" as you claim it was.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328928139' post='1095312']

I was. It seems I forgot to post the link I was referring to.


Regardless, citing Todd McShay's opinion in September 2008 does little to back up what reality was in April 2009. Your evidence wasn't "right before the draft" as you claim it was.
[/quote]


Getting senile in your old age? haha just kidding. If you want a a rebuttal to your argument see post #30. McShays evaluation was based off a QB that had two previous seasons of almost 4,000 yards passing and Painter's draft value only dropped because of his injury. Bill Polian who knows what he is doing, still felt Painter had enough talent to use a draft pick on him.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328928420' post='1095315']


Getting senile in your old age? haha just kidding. If you want a a rebuttal to your argument see post #30. McShays evaluation was based off a QB that had two previous seasons of almost 4,000 yards passing and Painter's draft value only dropped because of his injury. Bill Polian who knows what he is doing, still felt Painter had enough talent to use a draft pick on him.
[/quote]

you're still not getting it dude. Your claim was that Curtis Painter was the highest rated senior QB [b]just before the draft [/b](which isn't true) and your only evidence is a set of rankings given [b]seven months before the draft[/b] and before his senior season.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328928591' post='1095316']

you're still not getting it dude. Your claim was that Curtis Painter was the highest rated senior QB [b]just before the draft [/b](which isn't true) and your only evidence is a set of rankings given [b]seven months before the draft[/b] and before his senior season.
[/quote]

So a guy should be penalized due to injury and trying to tough it out for the sake of his team? Do you have no heart?

[gatorclaws]

I'll add that Painter sucked at Purdue. I don't know/care what stats he had, he failed the eyeball test. I went from watching Brees to Orton to Painter. A significant drop off at each step.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328926802' post='1095306']

Todd McShay works for ESPN as part of their 'Scouts Inc.' division. Did you not read where he said, "I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter." ?

How is what I said out of left field. It's on bold print right there for you. I guess if you didn't read the rest I guess you also didn't see where I pointed out that during the rest of the season Painter received an injury to his throwing shoulder.

So do you make a habit of reading the first line of something then making an opinion based on it? No wonder Jaime put you in your place in another thread.
[/quote]

Wait... So him saying he "doesn't much care for this site" means he thinks he is smarter than Todd McShay and ESPN scouts/analysts?

Yes, when people make it obvious they are as far removed from reality, and completely immersed in their own construct as what you said indicates about you position on this, then yes.. Yes I do stop reading the nonsense and move on to more fulfilling use of my time.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1328929133' post='1095318']
I'll add that Painter sucked at Purdue. I don't know/care what stats he had, he failed the eyeball test. I went from watching Brees to Orton to Painter. A significant drop off at each step.
[/quote]


Its funny how posters change their view on stats depending on how their opinion is already set. The guy put up the numbers in 2006 and 2007 before being injured in 2008. He broke a few of Brees' records at Purdue. Numbers might lie in a single game, or even in a few game span, but they don't lie over the span of a couple of seasons.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328910755' post='1095251']

you should probably find better evidence. This is a video from prior to painter's senior season. Draft rankings made 7 months before the draft aren't worth anything. This isn't "going into the draft." It's before the college season even started.

I don't necessarily care for this site's work, but this is more evidence to the point. By my count that's 15 senior QB's ranked ahead of Painter. [url="http://walterfootball.com/draft2009QB.php"]http://walterfootbal...draft2009QB.php[/url]

And as mentioned, 5 were drafted ahead of him. white, mcgee, teel, brandstater and null.
[/quote]

Shame on you! You went back and added the link that you had missing for 3 of my posts. Now people think I went off on a complete tangent when in fact I was responding to what you really said.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328929542' post='1095323']

Shame on you! You went back and added the link that you had missing for 3 of my posts. Now people think I went off on a complete tangent when in fact I was responding to what you really said.


[/quote]


gee its a good thing I made a post mentioning the link was missing.

And whether I left the link our or added it, your posts aren't going to look any less foolish or full of BS.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1328929402' post='1095321']

Wait... So him saying he "doesn't much care for this site" means he thinks he is smarter than Todd McShay and ESPN scouts/analysts?

Yes, when people make it obvious they are as far removed from reality, and completely immersed in their own construct as what you said indicates about you position on this, then yes.. Yes I do stop reading the nonsense and move on to more fulfilling use of my time.
[/quote]


What does it feel like to be Bengals1181's little pet? Does he give you Scooby Snacks for every post you defend him? Fact is, until he went and edited his original post, it sounded like he was saying he didn't respect Todd McShay and ESPN's opinion on anything. That's like me saying I don't respect Newt Gingrich's ideas on politics. Though I might disagree with some of his points and values, I'm not getting any calls any time soon to host any political shows and in all seriousness, I can't hold a candle to what he knows about politics.

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328929702' post='1095324']


gee its a good thing I made a post mentioning the link was missing.

And whether I left the link our or added it, your posts aren't going to look any less foolish or full of BS.
[/quote]


Well by mentioning after the fact you left out the link, wasn't that good enough instead of going back and adding it?

[Bengals1181]

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328929989' post='1095328']

[/quote]

I don't know why you are giving me the facepalm, I'm not the one getting upset and forgetting to provide links in a thread where Curtis Painter is the main subject matter. I could care less about Painter, but I think it is silly for people to sit back and criticize and over analyze a GM that is perhaps one of the best of our generation.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328931710' post='1095334']

I don't know why you are giving me the facepalm, I'm not the one getting upset and forgetting to provide links in a thread where Curtis Painter is the main subject matter. [b] I could care less about Painter[/b], but I think it is silly for people to sit back and criticize and over analyze a GM that is perhaps one of the best of our generation.
[/quote]


you cared enough to tell boldfaced lies about him to try and support your point (something you do quite a bit of).

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328931989' post='1095335']


you cared enough to tell boldfaced lies about him.
[/quote]


It wasn't a lie, and be honest yourself, you about dropped a deuce when I provided the Youtube video showing Todd McShay's rankings on the bottom of the screen.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328932068' post='1095336']


It wasn't a lie, and be honest yourself, you about dropped a deuce when I provided the Youtube video showing Todd McShay's rankings on the bottom of the screen.
[/quote]

yea I was shaking in my boots when I saw you had no evidence at all to support your point.

[mongo]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1328931710' post='1095334']

I don't know why you are giving me the facepalm, I'm not the one getting upset and forgetting to provide links in a thread where Curtis Painter is the main subject matter. [b]I could care less[/b] about Painter, but I think it is silly for people to sit back and criticize and over analyze a GM that is perhaps one of the best of our generation.[/quote]


For the record, the phase is 'I couldn't care less.' Saying you could care less means you actually do care... Never understood how people have confused that one.