Carl Nicks anyone?

[Jeb]

[b] [quote][/b]

[b] Falcons could hurt Saints by chasing Nicks[/b]

March, 5, 2012


By Pat Yasinskas
For several months now, I’ve been hearing from a lot of [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-falcons"]Atlanta Falcons[/url] fans that think the team should go hard after [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-saints"]New Orleans Saints[/url] guard [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11398/carl-nicks"]Carl Nicks[/url] in free agency.

My standard thinking on that was that I was against the move. Nicks is the best guard in the league and he’s going to cost big money. No doubt the Falcons could use some improved play at guard, but my thinking was conventional. As a general rule, you don’t pay guards huge money. But you do pay big money to left tackles and the Saints have a much bigger need there.

[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11255/sam-baker"]Sam Baker[/url], a 2008 first-round draft pick, hasn’t really worked out. He lost his starting job last season and could be released. I still think the Saints need to do something pretty major at left tackle.

But my thinking on Nicks now has changed. I now say the Falcons should go all out in an attempt to sign Nicks. He’d upgrade the interior of their line and his presence alone probably would make whoever ends up at left tackle a little better.

But that’s not the main reason I think the Falcons should go after Nicks. I think they should do it because they might be able to deliver a knockout punch to their division rivals. With the franchise tag being used on quarterback [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/2580/drew-brees"]Drew Brees[/url], the Saints have almost no salary-cap room left. They reportedly have re-worked the contract of defensive end [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5543/will-smith"]Will Smith[/url]. They could re-work the deal of linebacker [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5537/jonathan-vilma"]Jonathan Vilma[/url] or they could release him and some other guys could be on their way out the door for cap reasons.

Quite simply, the Saints probably don’t have the cap room to sign Nicks. The same goes for receiver [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/9838/marques-colston"]Marques Colston[/url], cornerback [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11274/tracy-porter"]Tracy Porter[/url] and receiver [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10471/robert-meachem"]Robert Meachem[/url] as well as some other former role players.

As I wrote last week, this salary-cap situation [url="http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/31754/brees-deal-could-gut-the-saints"]could end up gutting[/url] the Saints as we know them. As long as they have Brees, they’ll remain competitive and they may even remain the class of the NFC South. But the Saints are a team that’s vulnerable right now (and we don’t even know what penalties might come from their “bounty program," but those penalties are [url="http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/31814/saints-penalties-could-be-severe"]likely to be severe[/url]).

In a lot of ways, the Saints are sort of on the ropes right now. The Falcons don’t like the Saints and the feeling is mutual. Since the arrival of coach Mike Smith in 2008, Atlanta often has had to play second fiddle to the Saints in the NFC South.

The Saints have won the division two of the past three years and they won the Super Bowl at the end of the 2009 season. The Falcons have been competitive with them, but you’d have to say the Saints have had the upper-hand in the division for most of recent history.

But all that’s going on with the Saints could leave them stumbling a bit. The Falcons are sitting pretty. They’ve got decent cap space and a good team that could be ready to take the next step.

Going out and getting Nicks would only help the Falcons as a team. But, maybe more importantly than strengthening themselves, the Falcons could weaken the Saints. [/quote]

[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/54575/falcons-could-hurt-saints-by-chasing-nicks"]http://espn.go.com/b...y-chasing-nicks[/url]

[Jason]

As much as I would love to see it, I just ton't think the Bengals will pay him what he is asking for.

[B.A.B.]

We don't like paying big money for players worth big money. Wishful thinking

[Jeb]

Make him an offer, ...he can always say no, ...maybe he'll say yes?

[The PatternMaster]

I would make sense, just to see what happens. But he's going to want big money, more than I would feel comfortable giving him. Let another team overpay for him, he's a good player but not worth the type of cash he's going to get.

We can get a good player for a fraction of the cost, imo.

[B.A.B.]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1330961279' post='1102241']
I would make sense, just to see what happens. But he's going to want big money, more than I would feel comfortable giving him. Let another team overpay for him, he's a good player but not worth the type of cash he's going to get.

We can get a good player for a fraction of the cost, imo.
[/quote]

And I'm sure this is how Brown is thinking. Why I'll be shaking my head by the time FA is over

[Bengals1181]

would still rather spend $15-20 million less for grubbs.

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='B.A.B.' timestamp='1330961878' post='1102244']
And I'm sure this is how Brown is thinking. Why I'll be shaking my head by the time FA is over
[/quote]

from a fiscal standpoint, it's the responsible thing to do. Teams win the SuperBowl without the best/highest paid OG all the time. Hell PFF, for what it's worth, ranked NE and NYG has having some of the worst olines in football last year. Giving a OG 7-8 mil per year is not smart because Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, etc..are all young players who will want big money in the next 2-3 years and I would rather have them than Carl Nicks.

[SocalBengalEd]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1330962796' post='1102251']


from a fiscal standpoint, it's the responsible thing to do. Teams win the SuperBowl without the best/highest paid OG all the time. Hell PFF, for what it's worth, ranked NE and NYG has having some of the worst olines in football last year. Giving a OG 7-8 mil per year is not smart because Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, etc..are all young players who will want big money in the next 2-3 years and I would rather have them than Carl Nicks.
[/quote]




















Makes no sense. By then your gonna have Peko Geathers and probably Cooks salaries off the books. Pay Grubbs or Nicks they will be worth it.

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1330963350' post='1102253']
Makes no sense. By then your gonna have Peko Geathers and probably Cooks salaries off the books. Pay Grubbs or Nicks they will be worth it.
[/quote]

Why would Peko and Cooks salaries be off the books in 2-3 years, both guys are in their late 20's and can play for atleast another 5 years or longer. Cook is just coming into his own as is Peko, don't understand your logic there.

[SocalBengalEd]

Cooks wasnt that good last year. He is easily replaceable. You got to spread the wealth Atkins will demand good money I don't think you keep two high priced Dt,s. That's why I wouldnt mind going after a big time linebacker. We don't have anyone making or worth a big contract.

[Jeb]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1330963958' post='1102258']
Cooks wasnt that good last year. He is easily replaceable. You got to spread the wealth Atkins will demand good money I don't think you keep two high priced Dt,s. That's why I wouldnt mind going after a big time linebacker. We don't have anyone making or worth a big contract.
[/quote]

...Mario Williams?

[Jason]

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1330964341' post='1102260']

...Mario Williams?
[/quote]

He would be a DE in our defense, and we are not going after him.

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1330963958' post='1102258']
[b]Cooks wasnt that good last year. He is easily replaceable.[/b] You got to spread the wealth Atkins will demand good money I don't think you keep two high priced Dt,s. That's why I wouldnt mind going after a big time linebacker. We don't have anyone making or worth a big contract.
[/quote]

I disagree, I think Cook is playing good, sure he could improve but he's far from easily replaceable. Playing center is probably the most underrated job in the sports and Cook is getting better every year he does it. Continuity is key to an oline, replacing Cook would be a huge mistake.

As for Peko, he's already under contract for the next few years and it's not the type of money you would be paying Nicks. You could probably get both Peko and Atkins for the same money Nicks wants. Peko is signed thru the 2014 season for 3.5 per year, that would leave more than enough to re-up Atkins and give a raise, he is currently making 690k and will be a free agent in 2 years. Hell you can get both guys for less than what Nicks is wanting.

Logan Mankins got a 8.5mil per year deal for 6 years, Nicks is going to want atleast that much or more...probably around 9 million and someone will give it too him... I just hope it's not the Bengals.

[Jeb]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1330965103' post='1102263']

I disagree, I think Cook is playing good, sure he could improve but he's far from easily replaceable. Playing center is probably the most underrated job in the sports and Cook is getting better every year he does it. Continuity is key to an oline, replacing Cook would be a huge mistake.
[/quote]

I agree with this. It is the whole reason we kept Bluto as long as we did, ...some hope he would eventually get it, ...it never happened.

We had times we complained about Rich but he got the job done. I see Cook as another Braham, ...he's getting the job done.

[texbengal]

I'm sure that Nicks will be wanting to be paid as if he's the best G in the league, and I don't think there's any way in hell that soP will pay that. Obviously, the position needs an upgrade, but I think that between a high pick, Boling and/or Hudson, maybe Bobbie coming back on a 1-year deal, or Livings (I know, but as a spot guy, he'd be OK), or a more reasonably-priced FA, they'll go that route.

[cincity]

Whoa, sometimes this board surprises me. I really thought everyone would be screaming for Nicks regardless of his salary. I believe we are going to draft either DeCastro or Glenn in round 1, and add that $9 Mil year from Nicks, that's a lot of money tied up on guards. I hope Boling or Hudson are ready and the Draft pick will be able to hold it down, it can't be too much worse than watching Livings. I'd rather resign Sims, Jon, and Ruck.

[EnglishBengal]

Grubbs or Jake Scott are cheaper options, without much (if any) dropoff from Nicks.

[scharm]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1330968544' post='1102285']
Whoa, sometimes this board surprises me. I really thought everyone would be screaming for Nicks regardless of his salary. I believe we are going to draft either DeCastro or Glenn in round 1, and add that $9 Mil year from Nicks, that's a lot of money tied up on guards. I hope Boling or Hudson are ready and the Draft pick will be able to hold it down, it can't be too much worse than watching Livings. I'd rather resign Sims, Jon, and Ruck.
[/quote]

It's a guard. I'd love to have him. If they landed him I wouldn't really be concerned about the contract because they landed a in their prime Pro Bowl player.

However, look at the flip side. Nate Livings is a player that most people shit on and he is clearly the worse starter on the unit. They've been to the playoffs twice with him starting.

What's the cost/benefit? Do you need that much money in a guard, considering that Nate is Nate and this line while playing 4 games against Pitt/Balt has not given up more than 30 sacks the past two years?

[Oldcat]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1330962796' post='1102251']

from a fiscal standpoint, it's the responsible thing to do. Teams win the SuperBowl without the best/highest paid OG all the time. Hell PFF, for what it's worth, ranked NE and NYG has having some of the worst olines in football last year. Giving a OG 7-8 mil per year is not smart because Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, etc..are all young players who will want big money in the next 2-3 years and I would rather have them than Carl Nicks.
[/quote]

Plus if you pay your guard 8 mil, your OTs are going to want more than that next time around or you might lose them.

I think we need to improve, and an FA could do just that - but you have to watch the big picture too. Getting better than McGlynn and Livings is all we need, not better than the all-time best line.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1330972203' post='1102324']

Plus if you pay your guard 8 mil, your OTs are going to want more than that next time around or you might lose them.

I think we need to improve, and an FA could do just that - but you have to watch the big picture too. Getting better than McGlynn and Livings is all we need, not better than the all-time best line.
[/quote]


Some people if you give them a gold watch, are going to look up at you and ask why there isn't diamonds in it.

[happyrid]

It's almost like Bengals fans are abused girlfriends.

Good teams never pay guards? Really, then why are Jahri Evans (Saints) and Logan Mankins (Pats) the 2 highest paid OGs in the league?

Will it really kill us if we pay Nicks 9 million instead of paying some mediocre low level starter like Jake Scott 4 or 5 million? Is that 4 million extra really going to screw the Bengals salary cap irreperably?

Wow. Are we really that beaten down and conditioned to think that no player is ever worth a big contract? And certainly not a big contract from the Bengals because AJ Green and Andy Dalton are going to be free agents in 4 years...

[Mikey6866]

Best G in the league in his prime....we have 0 starting calber guards...sign me up. The only question is whether or not he would want to come here over some other teams, but if we dont make an offer to him or Grubbs I think it would be a pretty big mistake.

[Jeb]

[quote name='Mikey6866' timestamp='1330975603' post='1102356']
Best G in the league in his prime....we have 0 starting calber guards...sign me up. The only question is whether or not he would want to come here over some other teams, but if we dont make an offer to him or Grubbs I think it would be a pretty big mistake.
[/quote]

The word is our competition would be Dallas, Tampa, or Atlanta.

btw, ...Nicks owns a Superbowl ring, ...no added incentive from our playoff appearance and he's looking for a payday. He is 26 till May 14th. He's also a Taurus and stubborn as a bull but loyal as can be. He's probably hurt his team didn't make an offer for him to stay (even a token one).

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1330975317' post='1102353']
It's almost like Bengals fans are abused girlfriends.

Good teams never pay guards? Really, then why are Jahri Evans (Saints) and Logan Mankins (Pats) the 2 highest paid OGs in the league?

Will it really kill us if we pay Nicks 9 million instead of paying some mediocre low level starter like Jake Scott 4 or 5 million? Is that 4 million extra really going to screw the Bengals salary cap irreperably?

Wow[b]. Are we really that beaten down and conditioned to think that no player is ever worth a big contract? And certainly not a big contract from the Bengals because AJ Green and Andy Dalton are going to be free agents in 4 years...[/b]
[/quote]

In the next 3 years basically the whole team will need to be re-signed to bigger contracts than they currently have. Making a OG the highest paid player on the team makes no sense when you know your starting QB, WR, RT, DE, DT, MLB, ROLB, etc..will all need new and improved deals within the next three years. Honestly I don't want the highest paid player at a position on my team unless he's a sure fire HOF'er like Brady or Manning. Why over pay when you don't have to, just to say we have the highest paid OG on the roster.

I like Nicks, I think he's a fine player who can help make this team better, but he wants atleast 8.5/year, that's more than double what Dalton, Green, Gresham, and Atkins(the 4 ProBowlers) will make next year in base salary COMBINED. I would rather extend the core young guys, add some solid vets who are reasonably priced, and let the coaches earn their money.