mongo Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Are Windows people excited? It seems like a mess to me, but I want the other side's perspective. To me, I question the price, the screen, the battery, the digital pen support, the trackpad, and the high-end version running full Windows 8. It seems like they're throwing everything people asked for five years ago into a tablet, and hoping to God people five years ago had any idea what they actually want today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Been using the W8 beta for a couple of months now. My take on the tablet? Meh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340161620' post='1135981'] Been using the [b]W8 beta[/b] for a couple of months now. My take on the tablet? Meh... [/quote] How you like it? Did you convert it over to be more in line with the 7 look and feel or did you keep it "cartoon'd" up where it looks like it was made for a tablet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 not a fan of the carbon interface AT ALL as far as the tablet, it has potential but i dont like windows8 so i doubt id get one, ill be turning carbon off once i upgrade to windows 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I've read a bunch of articles, but now I'm watching the presentation video... There's no way I can stay objective throughout this presentation, though. Steve Ballmer is an absolute buffoon. Questions I have: 1. Why is Ballmer still employed? 2. Why would you want to charge your phone at a hotel with the USB port of a Surface? (I'd much rather have heard what peripherals it will support) 3. How did they allow a presentation in which the product didn't work, and a backup needed to be used? (and the overzealous marks in the audience, and under-rehearsed presentations) 4. How fast will that kickstand break in the hands of a child? 5. Why would you want a trackpad for a touchscreen? (especially on a keyboard that is attached to the screen) 6. Do people really want 'digital ink'? (and when showing off 'palm block' technology, I think you should make sure it works) 7. With a cooling vent about a mm from the edge of the entire back of the Surface, what stops a spilled coffee from destroying the device? (I get that a drink can destroy anything if spilled just right, but that vent is begging for trouble) 8. Are there video professionals who are going to edit video on a tablet? Designers using CS6 on a 10" screen? 9. Is a 22° angle really a selling point? .65 mm injection molding? (a lot of time is not spent on things like price, release date, battery life, app delivery, third party apps in the works) I think it looked like the rushed presentation of a beta product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340197593' post='1136016'] not a fan of the carbon interface AT ALL [/quote] Is that the tiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340200344' post='1136022'] Is that the tiles? [/quote] yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I had thought that was Metro, but I get confused. To add a couple more questions to the Surface event: 10. If it's only going to be available online, or from one of their 25 (according to their website) stores, are they really positioning themselves well for sales? 11. How is it going to work out for the other companies that choose to make Windows Tablets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1340196381' post='1136009'] How you like it? Did you convert it over to be more in line with the 7 look and feel or did you keep it "cartoon'd" up where it looks like it was made for a tablet? [/quote] I kept it mostly cartoonish as that is the interface that MS intends to foist upon the masses. Now, my comments and critique are made with the full understanding that this is a beta product and that there are constant changes being made and not everything will be "as is" upon release. That said, W8 is turning out to be the new VIsta, or ME, take your pick. The interface and the changing of such is opaque from a user standpoint. If it's not entirely clear what needs to be done or how to do it, then you need to supply instruction. For example, when one looks at the screen of a locked iPhone or iPad, There's a little bar with an arrow that says "Slide to Unlock". It's simple instruction that a 3 year old could comprehend. Compare that to the lock screen of W8. We have been conditioned for nearly 2 decades to hit ctrl+alt+delete to get started with Windows. It took me [b]way[/b] too long to figure out how in the hell to get to the login screen on my laptop. The usual CAD didn't work, clicking around didn't work, and when I finally chanced upon the fact that one needs to click and drag the bottom of the screen to the top I was already turned off a bit. No arrow, no instruction. Just an arrow pointing up on the bottom of the screen would have sufficed. Might that have been easier to comprehend on a tablet? Sure, but that shit ain't gonna fly on a desktop or laptop. Another reason I kept the interface cartoonish is because it's so damn labor intensive to get it so it is functional on a non-tablet. It's almost like they are making it purposefully difficult to make changes to the interface to force you into using it. Again, not going to work on a non-tablet. Application management is another issue. I never did figure out how the hell to close solitaire without launching the task manager and killing it. Esc didn't work, and I could not for the life of me find a menu with a Quit or Exit button. On a tablet there's probably a central fun button ala the iPad and iPhone, but again, that shit on a non-tablet is going to drive people batshit. They need to make the interface choice on initial startup or sysprep a simple "Are you using this on a tablet or a laptop" or "Do you want to use Carbon or Traditional Windows Desktop?", especially if they are going to try and shove this off on businesses. As it stands now, there is no way in hell I would even consider deploying this in my enterprise, which is the polar opposite of how I felt about W7 at this point in its beta. If MS has any design on this product not landing in the market like a greasy shit they need to make some substantial changes because as it stands now they look to lose every user over 40 out of the gate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I just feel like this Carbon stuff is Active Desktop repackaged. That shit failed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340212894' post='1136046'] I just feel like this Carbon stuff is Active Desktop repackaged. That shit failed too. [/quote] More like Bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340212617' post='1136045'] I kept it mostly cartoonish as that is the interface that MS intends to foist upon the masses. Now, my comments and critique are made with the full understanding that this is a beta product and that there are constant changes being made and not everything will be "as is" upon release. That said, W8 is turning out to be the new VIsta, or ME, take your pick. The interface and the changing of such is opaque from a user standpoint. If it's not entirely clear what needs to be done or how to do it, then you need to supply instruction. For example, when one looks at the screen of a locked iPhone or iPad, There's a little bar with an arrow that says "Slide to Unlock". It's simple instruction that a 3 year old could comprehend. Compare that to the lock screen of W8. We have been conditioned for nearly 2 decades to hit ctrl+alt+delete to get started with Windows. It took me [b]way[/b] too long to figure out how in the hell to get to the login screen on my laptop. The usual CAD didn't work, clicking around didn't work, and when I finally chanced upon the fact that one needs to click and drag the bottom of the screen to the top I was already turned off a bit. No arrow, no instruction. Just an arrow pointing up on the bottom of the screen would have sufficed. Might that have been easier to comprehend on a tablet? Sure, but that shit ain't gonna fly on a desktop or laptop. Another reason I kept the interface cartoonish is because it's so damn labor intensive to get it so it is functional on a non-tablet. It's almost like they are making it purposefully difficult to make changes to the interface to force you into using it. Again, not going to work on a non-tablet. Application management is another issue. I never did figure out how the hell to close solitaire without launching the task manager and killing it. Esc didn't work, and I could not for the life of me find a menu with a Quit or Exit button. On a tablet there's probably a central fun button ala the iPad and iPhone, but again, that shit on a non-tablet is going to drive people batshit. They need to make the interface choice on initial startup or sysprep a simple "Are you using this on a tablet or a laptop" or "Do you want to use Carbon or Traditional Windows Desktop?", especially if they are going to try and shove this off on businesses. As it stands now, there is no way in hell I would even consider deploying this in my enterprise, which is the polar opposite of how I felt about W7 at this point in its beta. If MS has any design on this product not landing in the market like a greasy shit they need to make some substantial changes because as it stands now they look to lose every user over 40 out of the gate... [/quote] This is pretty much how I felt when I played with it... As soon as I first saw it I was already done. The shitty looking cubes just make using it in a point and click environment clunky - aside from the sorry ass all I can call it is "cartoonish" look. I was pretty much turned off within the first 2 -3 minutes of having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutWittyNameHere Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340212617' post='1136045'] I kept it mostly cartoonish as that is the interface that MS intends to foist upon the masses. Now, my comments and critique are made with the full understanding that this is a beta product and that there are constant changes being made and not everything will be "as is" upon release. That said, W8 is turning out to be the new VIsta, or ME, take your pick. The interface and the changing of such is opaque from a user standpoint. If it's not entirely clear what needs to be done or how to do it, then you need to supply instruction. For example, when one looks at the screen of a locked iPhone or iPad, There's a little bar with an arrow that says "Slide to Unlock". It's simple instruction that a 3 year old could comprehend. Compare that to the lock screen of W8. We have been conditioned for nearly 2 decades to hit ctrl+alt+delete to get started with Windows. It took me [b]way[/b] too long to figure out how in the hell to get to the login screen on my laptop. The usual CAD didn't work, clicking around didn't work, and when I finally chanced upon the fact that one needs to click and drag the bottom of the screen to the top I was already turned off a bit. No arrow, no instruction. Just an arrow pointing up on the bottom of the screen would have sufficed. Might that have been easier to comprehend on a tablet? Sure, but that shit ain't gonna fly on a desktop or laptop. Another reason I kept the interface cartoonish is because it's so damn labor intensive to get it so it is functional on a non-tablet. It's almost like they are making it purposefully difficult to make changes to the interface to force you into using it. Again, not going to work on a non-tablet. Application management is another issue. I never did figure out how the hell to close solitaire without launching the task manager and killing it. Esc didn't work, and I could not for the life of me find a menu with a Quit or Exit button. On a tablet there's probably a central fun button ala the iPad and iPhone, but again, that shit on a non-tablet is going to drive people batshit. They need to make the interface choice on initial startup or sysprep a simple "Are you using this on a tablet or a laptop" or "Do you want to use Carbon or Traditional Windows Desktop?", especially if they are going to try and shove this off on businesses. As it stands now, there is no way in hell I would even consider deploying this in my enterprise, which is the polar opposite of how I felt about W7 at this point in its beta. If MS has any design on this product not landing in the market like a greasy shit they need to make some substantial changes because as it stands now they look to lose every user over 40 out of the gate... [/quote] I played around with the Developer Preview for a couple days, and this pretty much sums up how I felt, as well. I came away wondering if the W8 devs completely forgot what a mouse was, because it didn't seem like anything was geared towards using it. It was pretty awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Apple has patented a "Ipen" so they dont seem to think its a bad idea. [url="http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/?newsid=3360004"]http://www.macworld....?newsid=3360004[/url] I just really really really hate the metro interface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutWittyNameHere Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340297710' post='1136155'] Apple has patented a "Ipen" so they dont seem to think its a bad idea. [url="http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/?newsid=3360004"]http://www.macworld....?newsid=3360004[/url] I just really really really hate the metro interface [/quote] To be fair, apple does have a storied reputation of patenting things for no other reason than preventing their competitors from doing it. They have quite a few patents out there that they seemingly never had any intention of ever implementing. That said, I would love to see a better stylus for the iPad. I downloaded the "Paper" app, which could be an absolutely fantastic app were it not for the fact that I can't find a pen that works even halfway decent with it. I'd love to be able to my iPad with me to meetings and use it to take all my notes, but there's currently not easy way to do it. The keyboard isn't good enough to type quickly with, and the stylus I bought isn't nearly precise enough to use for handwriting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='PutWittyNameHere' timestamp='1340335794' post='1136229'] To be fair, apple does have a storied reputation of patenting things for no other reason than preventing their competitors from doing it. They have quite a few patents out there that they seemingly never had any intention of ever implementing. That said, I would love to see a better stylus for the iPad. I downloaded the "Paper" app, which could be an absolutely fantastic app were it not for the fact that I can't find a pen that works even halfway decent with it. I'd love to be able to my iPad with me to meetings and use it to take all my notes, but there's currently not easy way to do it. The keyboard isn't good enough to type quickly with, and the stylus I bought isn't nearly precise enough to use for handwriting. [/quote] To me the whole idea of a electronic notepad should have a electronic pen, but not just for one app, but integrated through the whole system. Just makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The Surface will release as WiFi only, according to Bloomberg... And while I've flirted with pens for art apps, pens for handwriting don't make much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340393045' post='1136364'] The Surface will release as WiFi only, according to Bloomberg... [b]And while I've flirted with pens for art apps, pens for handwriting don't make much sense to me.[/b] [/quote] Particularly since my handwriting looks like dog shit with regular pen and paper; add in an electronic layer and it's truly horrifying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340393045' post='1136364'] The Surface will release as WiFi only, according to Bloomberg... And while I've flirted with pens for art apps, pens for handwriting don't make much sense to me. [/quote] so what do you use for handwriting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340393303' post='1136366'] so what do you use for handwriting? [/quote] On a pad, or computer? Nothing. I think handwriting is bad input on computers or pads... If pressed to use my handwriting as a design element, I'd use pen and paper, scan, then clean it up in Illustrator or Photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PutWittyNameHere Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340394071' post='1136369'] On a pad, or computer? Nothing. I think handwriting is bad input on computers or pads... If pressed to use my handwriting as a design element, I'd use pen and paper, scan, then clean it up in Illustrator or Photoshop. [/quote] My problem is that I'm a very visual person when it comes to notes and rely on diagrams and drawings to compliment the things I write down. That doesn't work very well with a keyboard. If I had a stylus that actually worked, I feel like that "Paper" app would be almost perfect for what I need. But alas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340394071' post='1136369'] On a pad, or computer? Nothing. I think handwriting is bad input on computers or pads... If pressed to use my handwriting as a design element, I'd use pen and paper, scan, then clean it up in Illustrator or Photoshop. [/quote] See to me the form for these things would be perfect for such things as note taking in a meeting or class and let that convert to documents that are searchable for review but I'd like to see that sort of thing throughout the system not just a specific app. I'd love to be able to view a webpage, scribble some notes about what I like and dont like on it, and throw that into a document as well, I just think the note taking on a "pad" type of application would be a good thing to start off with.[quote name='PutWittyNameHere' timestamp='1340396299' post='1136372'] My problem is that I'm a very visual person when it comes to notes and rely on diagrams and drawings to compliment the things I write down. That doesn't work very well with a keyboard. If I had a stylus that actually worked, I feel like that "Paper" app would be almost perfect for what I need. But alas... [/quote] Yeah I'd love to have a stylus app that worked for taking notes in class when i start grad school in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='PutWittyNameHere' timestamp='1340396299' post='1136372'] My problem is that I'm a very visual person when it comes to notes and rely on diagrams and drawings to compliment the things I write down. That doesn't work very well with a keyboard. If I had a stylus that actually worked, I feel like that "Paper" app would be almost perfect for what I need. But alas... [/quote] I'm still looking for a good one for drawing. I joined a kick starter that may work out well. I'll let you know when I get it. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hand/hand-stylus Or the new, official site http://handstylus.com/ As for Jaime's thing, I just don't know about all that. Seems like a huge amount of work for a rather small percentage of people. Most people type way faster than they write. Also, handwriting is so distinct, it still seems far off when software can reliably convert everyone's chicken scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [IMG]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/lodge308/windows8vsaol.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340907760' post='1137090'] [img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/lodge308/windows8vsaol.jpg[/img] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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